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Steelers Defense Overcomes Turnovers - Hines Re-Writes Record Books, Steelers Stymie Bengals 24-10

New plan for my initial post-game thoughts. In an attempt to avoid writing an excessive amount before hearing what you guys have to say, I'm going to limit my initial thoughts to some random thoughts, open it to the floor, and then perhaps address some of the most persistent themes/complaints/concerns coming from you guys. Like I said, no real rhyme or reason here, so bare with me. Let's get to it:

  • Settle down, we'll get to the ridiculous second half turnovers in a minute. First, CONGRATULATIONS HINES WARD ON BECOMING THE NEW ALL-TIME TD RECEPTION LEADER FOR THIS PROUD, STORIED FRANCHISE! . Guys, this isn't like a collegiate QB at Oregon or Texas Tech breaking a school passing record in the era of the spread offense. We're talking about the Pittsburgh Steelers, one of THE preeminent franchises in all of North American professional sports. Hines Ward surpassed John Stallworth's career TD mark of 63 with two TD receptions tonight. His first matched the Hall of Famer's mark; the second put Hines all alone atop the record books.


Stallworth, Lynn, step aside. Mr. Ward re-writes history at Heinz tonight

I know there are many fans and contributors to the site who are far more experienced and knowledgable historians of this franchise's past, but I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest we all take just a passing moment to think about what Ward has accomplished and meant to this organization and city since being drafted by the Steelers in the third round of the 1998 NFL draft. He's a special, special talent and one of the very select athletes, in any sport, that one could legitimately feel confident going to war with, no matter the opponent, no matter the circumstance, no matter the odds. That edge he brings is why none of us were that surprised when we made our run in 2005, and personally, that mental toughness he infuses in our team is why I wholeheartedly expect us to make a game of it next weekend in New England.

  • Hines, there's more love coming your way, but let's be real, our defense won this game for us. Raise your hand if you were either A)pacing nervously B)cursing uncontrollably or C)ready to write-off the season after the Bengals proceeded to march 75 yards on 12 plays for a TD on their opening drive. I wish I could say 'you should know better' but I gotta admit I was one of those who was concerned after that impressive drive that Palmer orchestrated.
  • The Bengals amassed 75 yards on the 1st drive. Their next seven drives? Fewer than 85 yards...total.Can you believe we only sacked Carson Palmer once tonight? Would you have believed me if I told you before the game that we'd hold Palmer to 17/44 for 183 yards yet only sack him once? Didn't think so. It's not easy making Palmer look like JP Lohsman yet we found a way, despite handing the Bengals golden field position throughout the night. Seriously, appreciate that defensive effort. Carson Palmer is, and will be for many more years, one of the very best QBs in the league. We made him look like a rookie tonight, and that's really not easy to do.
  • Here's a small microcosm of why you should rarely, if ever doubt the Rooneys: don't forget Steelers Nation that we were playing without our top two safetys. Our two reserves, Tyrone Carter and Anthony Smith, have been playing lights out all year. We really haven't missed a beat, and although it's a silly argument to make, one could at least attempt to argue with some sense of credibility, that our defense has been superior with the two of them in there in place of the starters. Carter and Smith both play with a swagger that's undeniably contagious. Many of us have had high hopes for Smith. The play of Carter though has been down right surprising. That's not to say we thought he wasn't any good. He's been playing much, much better than acceptable back-up quality football though. Neither have allowed a huge, game-changing play, and both continue to lay the wood week after week on any and all who dare to come over the middle. I love the Bengals' Housh as a player. I'll admit it, I do. He's usually nails under pressure and as reliable as can be. We made him, as well as Palmer and C. Johnson, look terrible all night.  Moral of the story is this team has depth in several critical departments. There's work to be done this offseason, but the Rooneys have yet again put together a collection of individuals that A) has the depth to compete when injuries surface and B) not complain and cause problems when it's not their turn to step up.
  • Ben's first half TD scramble was a perfect example of why he has the skill set to be one of the top 1-5 QBs in this league for the next 7-10 years. This probably deserves a post of its own, but I was thinking that there's really no difference between Big Ben and Vince Young in their scrambling capabilities. Both are strong, both are great at making the first guy miss, and both are able to fall forward for the extra tough yard or two when it's really needed. Now, the biggest difference of course is that Young is capable of breaking off the long 30-50 yard run, but really, in the short and intermediate scrambling, they're very comparable. Yet, nobody really speaks of Ben as an elite mobile, running QB. Thank God for this actually, because most defenses designate a full-time spy on Vince Young, whereas defensive coordinators would never dare do that with Ben, even if they do hammer home the point to their defense that Roethlisberger is more than capable of breaking contain and making a play with his arm or feet outside of the pocket. Bottom line is this: the Steelers' offense is far more dangerous when Ben's willing to tuck it and run. The more he scrambles, the more LBs will cheat up on him, leaving the middle of the field more vacant for Heath and Hines.
  • Quick break from the offense to give a shout out to the coverage units on special teams. We've bitched and moaned for a long while now about our ST play. For a night at least, there was nothing to complain about. 28 yards was the longest KR we surrendered; 12 yards was the longest punt return allowed. This was big actually, because our defense did yield some yardage before buckling down when it had to. Our offense compromised our defense on several occasions. Our special teams did not. I did notice seeing L. Timmons, Ike Taylor, and James Harrison in on special teams at the same time. Love to Anthony Madison as well for forcing that fumble on the kick return. Guys, Tomlin has had his ups and downs with game management this year, but he's brought in Rossum and Madison for special teams purposes, and both have left their mark on football games this year. He's not just standing there hoping Arians and LeBeau will get it done. He's got his hand in the pot in many more ways than might be apparent on the television, the main one being....
  • The play of D-Mac, Ike, and Deshea. See above about Carter and A. Smith. Same applies here. All of these guys are over-achieving. This defense had the ability to stop the run and shut down inferior opponents the past several years, but it was just as likely to have a big number hung on it through the air. Not this year. Remember what the Saints, Falcons, and many others did to us last year? They lit us up. Tonight, despite turning the ball over 4 times, our D limited the Bengals to 10 points, and only 3 over the final 54 minutes or so. When you're playing this well on defense, should your offensive philosophy be to tighten up and stay out of the defense's way?
  • I for one, don't think so, but the reality is this offense needs to find a way to not get in the way of the team's success when the D has it going on. When you have a HOF WR in Hines Ward, a burgeoning Pro-Bowl deep threat in Santonio, one of the most most underrated TEs in the game, and a QB who is proving capable of learning from past mistakes, why would you ever consider shutting down the offense and instead relying on a defense to win games? You wouldn't obviously. At this point in the season, there's too much evidence that suggests this Steelers defense is as good as there is in the National Football League. The trick is going to be finding the right balance of agression and patient, mistake-free intelligence on offense.  If we can find a way to limit Wes Welker next week, I think we'll show the world that even the mighty juggornaut that is the Patriots offense can be contained by the right combination of scheme and athleticism on the defensive side of the ball. Even if they do get torched, I'm damn proud of this defense, and happy knowing they'll probably give us a chance to at least compete for victories come playoff time.
  • Lawrence Timmons is finally becoming the head-hunter we wanted to see out of him on special teams. Thought I'd throw that in there real quick.
  • Can somebody please tell Kendall Simmons that you can't just slap at somebody's helemt as a guard and hope to eliminate them from the play? That may work as a tackle if you're trying to push a pass rusher just upfield enough to give your QB time to step-up in the pocket, but at the guard position, you gotta lock-up and stay-locked up. Slapping and pushing don't work in the middle, and on that safety of Big Ben that was oh-so-fortunately negated by a suspect defensive pass-interference call, Simmons just gave his guy a quick slap and push to the upper region without considering that might not be enough to deter a 275+ pass rusher who was coming straight up the gut at Big Ben.

Now, for the most part, this line played pretty damn well. Despite being sacked on several...oh wait, scratch that, Big Ben wasn't sacked all night. Max Starks is probably playing in a Steelers uniform for only several more months, but I'm quite pleased that he has filled in so adequately for Marvel Smtih the past two weeks. His competition the past two weeks? Jason Taylor and Justin Smith. Sacks allowed? 1. Not bad my friends, not bad. Is it too late in the season to throw him in at guard for Simmons when M. Smith returns?

  • Guess we have no choice but to adress the picks by Ben and the fumbles by Willie. The first throw by Ben that was picked off was a bad throw, no two ways about it. Ball sailed on him and Hines couldn't bring it down. That was precisely the kind of situation where Ben needs to at least part of the time, tuck it and run. He was throwing on the run (moving forward actaully), and while it wasn't a forced throw, he could have taken a few yards had he run it, and no doubt, opposing teams would be more reluctant to drop that extra guy in coverage on passing situations if they knew Roeth was willing and looking to run. On the second pick, hard to say what happened. Honestly, it could have been Hines' fault. Possibly Cedrick's, but I guess we'll never know. There haven't been many mis-communications all year, so let's chalk it up to no big deal for now, and hope they put in a few extra reps this week to make sure it doesn't happen during a more critical, tighter game.
  • Parker and the fumbles? Well, had this happend two months ago, I might have been concerned and willing to discuss any decision that shifted carries away from Parker. But the fact of the matter is, Parker hasn't fumbled since Week 4 against Arizona. Perhaps Madden was right in his assesment of the negative effects of those rubber sleeves Parker was wearing. Maybe it was the rain? Maybe it was just great ball-hawking by the Begals. Not sure, but I hope we see another two month-stretch where Parker doesn't put the rock on the ground. His defense bailed him out tonight. That won't stand against NE, or against Jacksonville, or our playoff opponents. Hope that's out of your system FWP.

**************

What else guys. 50 fans' opinions are better than one guy's opinions. Let me know what you saw. Again, plenty to be desired from tonight, but I'll say it again: you're only as good as your record, and this team has the 5th best record in the National Football League. Two of our most glaring weaknesses - the offensive line and coverage in special teams - delivered for us tonight. In my mind, that's just further evidence that we have all the ingredients to compete with, and beat, the best of the best if we could just find a way to piece it all together for 60 minutes. Tonight, despite the obvious second-half shortcomings in the turnover department, was a solid step in the right direction.

And once again, don't let the disappointing turnovers stand in the way of you enjoying the night that Hines Ward, one of the true all-time great Steelers, cemented his status as an immortal in Steelers lore.

After a week in which we were reminded that this is a game played by real people, take time to appreciate this team for what it is: a special collection of individuals that may disappoint from time to time on the gridiron, but never in character, never in heart, and never in effort.

Go Steelers!

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Some thoughts.
I saw on TV that someone had hung up a large banner that said "Hines' Field." I felt much less creative after that. He made some amazing catches yesterday, though. Congrats to him and hopefully we'll see more of it.

Also:

Raise your hand if you were either A)pacing nervously B)cursing uncontrollably or C)ready to write-off the season after the Bengals proceeded to march 75 yards on 12 plays for a TD on their opening drive.

Raises hand.

For some reason, it seems like the Steelers Defense has been sleeping during the first quarter/half for the last several games, only to suddenly show up later. We saw it this week, we saw it against the Jets when the Steelers allowed an opening-drive touchdown and then nothing but field goals for the rest of the game, and we saw it against Cleveland when our defense allowed three opening-half touchdowns and then shut down the Cleveland offense for the entire second half. What's going on here?

I don't think there's anything to blame Ben for with regards to that first pick. It looks like the ball was wet, slipped and went two feet too high. Otherwise, that would and should have been caught. It happens.

by HinesField on Dec 3, 2007 8:34 AM EST   0 recs

good game
The only thing that I didn't like about last night (besides the turnovers of course), was the complete lack of a running game. I really thought FWP would be able to find some running room against this defense. I don't know if it's him or the line but in all likelihood it's a combination of the two. This team really misses the running game in the fourth quarter when they're trying to ice the game.

The defense will no doubt be tested this week but they have been great so far. The offense tried several times to blow this game but the defense wouldn't have it.

Congrats Hines, the record couldn't have gone to a better guy.  

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 3, 2007 9:03 AM EST   0 recs

congrats Hines
If Hines actually sees this site i would like to congratulate him.  He is a class act player and i quite honestly would not want anyone else then him as a wide receiver.  Does everything right on and off the field.  He still got some years left in him so he could make this record harder to reach for the next steeler receiver in the future.

by LiveinDCbutsteelerfanbyheart on Dec 3, 2007 9:19 AM EST   0 recs

pretty much agreed
The only truly bone-headed plays I can think of from last night were K. Simmons' bad beat on Ben's (thankfully negated) safety and the first pick. I know the weather had a hand in knocking that throw off-course, but Ben had at least 10 yards in front of him and probably could've slid in for the first down. He's gotta be more cognizant

FWP's fumbles, I'm confident, were an anomaly. This is the NFL, and when you lead the league in carries, statistics say you're gonna rack up some fumbles here and there. It's too bad they had to come all in one game though, and I think Willie probably should've taken a breather after the second or third. I am concerned about our long-term future at running back, though - FWP is talented and fast, but I'm worried he's not able to handle the workload of a workhorse back the way we could rely on Bettis. For all his strengths, Parker is not a guy that can move piles, and with the bigger Davenport a) getting older and b) maybe heading for greener pastures next year, I hope there's someone in the pipeline that can provide that hard hit.

by dcfan85 on Dec 3, 2007 9:32 AM EST   0 recs

FWP
He definitely needs a 'fat' back to spell him and push the pile.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 3, 2007 9:43 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

running game
Yeah, no doubt, something's broken and it may not be fixable with this o-line and FWP.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 9:34 AM EST   0 recs

Running Game (cont.)
Blitzburgh- love the site.  Long time reader, first time writer. I don't think you mean to call Heath Miller one of the most overrated TEs in the post above though. . .

As for the game, big win no matter what the Bungles record is.  Defense continues to impress, particularly with the adjustments they make early in the game.  Love to see LeBeau in Canton someday.

As for the o-line and the running game, I agree in saying something needs to be fixed there, and QUICKLY.  To win next week in Foxborough we are going to need to shorten the game as much as possible.  I dont think we win without FWP seeing 100 yds, period.

So excited for next weekend, a measuring stick to say the least.  Do I think we can win? Absolutely.  But remember, holding the Pats to 24 points or so is like holding most teams to 10.  We need to score often and control the ball.  We need a ground game.

We Dey

by loyal and true on Dec 3, 2007 9:46 AM EST   0 recs

thanks man
Thanks for the nice words and pointing that out - meant to say underated. Whoops! Beers' fault. Fixed.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 10:36 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

One way to neutralize Pats...
Yep, the more effective our running game is, the longer our drives are. The longer our drives are, the longer we keep Tom Brady, Randy Moss and friends off the field. The more we keep those dudes off the field, the less they can hurt us.

by Cotter on Dec 3, 2007 10:41 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Agree with idea but not implementation
Yes, we have to sustain drives to play keep-away from Brady & Co. But our best chance to do that successfully is to mix in runs with the short passing game and also be aggressive on 4th and short calls.

by santhome on Dec 3, 2007 10:57 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely...
Was not implying we should only run the ball. That'll never be a good game plan.

I'm a big fan of the mix of run and short pass. Been saying it over at my blog for basically the entire season.

by Cotter on Dec 3, 2007 11:03 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

yea
We'll need to be agressive in any and all tough-decision type situations. Tomlin may have a big opportunity to make some gutsy decisions.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 11:03 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

re: the running game
I don't know about you guys, but after writing my above post I was thinking - do we really need a prototypical Steelers' running game? At least for the next few seasons? Think about it - we have more talent at QB than arguably we've ever had (I think Ben certainly has the potential to be, and may already be, better than Bradshaw), we've got a Canton-bound WR who's good for probably two more years at least and an understudy who's playing Pro Bowl ball when he's healthy, at least one solid receiving TE in Miller and maybe another in Matt Spaeth, and a D that can keep opponents off the field and allow us more time for passing plays to develop. Maybe it's heresy, and I don't think Ben will ever be a Palmer-esque pocket passer, but we saw our offense really step up and deliver in the air last night.

Obviously getting Willie a fat back is a priority - we've gotta have a guy to move the pile and a guy to go down the field. But maybe it's not a huge deal, at least for the rest of this season.

by dcfan85 on Dec 3, 2007 10:22 AM EST   0 recs

agreed
Just because we ran the ball in the past (read, previous decades) should have no bearing whatsoever on what we do with this team. Every successful team needs to be able to run the ball well on occassion, but unlike during the Cowher years, our chances don't hinge exclusively on our effectiveness on the ground. Parker and the line had a few moments yesterday. Also, without Santonio, the Bengals probably keyed in on the running game all week.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 10:40 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

The good, the bad and the next week...
Overall a confidence re-building performance that came with enough imperfections to make the team want to work harder in practice this week.

GOOD:
Defense was outstanding again. Lebeau is the master but for all the Tomlin bashing some people have done I'd like to hear those people give Tomlin some credit for providing the subtle influences that have made our secondary the best in many years.

Arians finally figured out the play-calling answer in the 2nd and 3rd quarters - a short-passing game! This approach can make up for both pass protection and running game deficiencies.

BAD:
Fumbling Willie Parker. Madden made a rare relevant point with about the wet elbow sleeves which contributed to 3 of 4 fumbles - I know only 2 were real fumbles but you can't ignore the other two if you're a Steelers coach trying to fix the problem this week.

Play-calling in the 1st and 4th quarters. While it is sad that we can no longer run the football (even against the Bungals), it is also true. We need to adjust by using a less predictable mix of runs and safe passes to bleed the clock with a lead - it's not conventional thinking but with this O-line run, run, pass is often going to mean punt.

NEXT WEEK at NE*:
Pass defense will really earn their medals in this one. We are not going to shut them down but if we don't give up the big plays we should have a fighting chance.

The number of possessions will be key to this game. There's only one way for us to play ball control and be successful this year - cleverly mix runs with short passes. A run-heavy game plan will make us punt too often. Also, we need to go for it on 4th and short everytime we're past midfield at least till we have a large enough lead w.r.t. the time remaining ;)

by santhome on Dec 3, 2007 10:36 AM EST   0 recs

Good Stuff Blitzburgh!
As usual my friend, I agree with you on most points.

I do want to say though, after reading some of the comments - we shouldn't be so quick to pile on FWP. He's had a rough last month and his turnovers last night were awfully perplexing. But he has still gained the 2nd most (maybe 3rd now, someone check that) yards of any back in the NFL thus far this season and is over 1,000 yards cumulatively.

87 yards is not awful. However, 28 carries to get to 87 yards ain't great. Nonetheless, like I said, I'm not giving up on him just yet. There's still 4 regular season games to play and anytime we hand Willie the ball there's a chance he'll break a 75 yarder.

So let's hope he gets back on track and returns to being the FWP we all know and love. But he is our guy. Stick by him.

Or am I being too faithful here?

by Cotter on Dec 3, 2007 10:46 AM EST   0 recs

no, agree definitely
Parker's not the problem exclusively. It's a collective issue (O-line, play-calling, sloppy fields, defenses being less scared of the deep threat without Holmes). I think people have been eager to see Russell get a few carries just because he looked so quick and tough running the ball in the preseason.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 10:52 AM EST   0 recs

Yep
Parker's ineffectiveness is a combination of his style, the O-line's deficiences, the speed killing field and the play-calling.

by santhome on Dec 3, 2007 10:58 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Swann or Stallworth?
Hines broke Stallworth's TD record not Swann's as you have it listed in paragraph 2.  

Right?

by jacktoronado on Dec 3, 2007 11:03 AM EST   0 recs

Hines Ward
Yes, Hines Ward broke John Stallworth's records.  
Steelady in VA

by Steelady in VA on Dec 3, 2007 11:07 AM EST   0 recs

ah
Nothing like a few typos to get new commentors to speak up! Thanks guys and gals, and my bad. Wrote these 2500 words late last night after a long weekend of work and then a number of beers during the game. Alas, I'm my own editor, and things slip by my tired eyes some times. Thanks for helping. Fixed.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 11:15 AM EST   0 recs

Davenport
Does anybody have more concrete info on Najeh? The "foot" injury suffered away from the football field sounded fishy from the beginning. Did he get into trouble again? Was the foot injury an excuse? If so, I wonder if Tomlin will make a serious statement w.r.t. discipline by cutting him or putting him on IR. DaTruth mentioned in the gameday thread that he won't be surprised to see Verron Haynes back next week against the Pats* - he knows the offense and from what I can remember had a good attitude in camp for a vet who was on the bubble (unlike Chukky Okobi)

by santhome on Dec 3, 2007 11:31 AM EST   0 recs

Najeh
I'd be suprised if it was something like that. It sounded like an off the field injury that they just didn't want to release. He's so 'wheels off' though you never know.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 3, 2007 11:48 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

nothing yet
I did remember seeing a clip of Najeh running in the pre-game. He looked allright to me. Hadn't thought about the possibility of a rules infraction from Najeh, santhome.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 11:33 AM EST   0 recs

I saw him running too...
He seemed a bit off to me though. I also thought I saw a small bruise under his left eye in a close-up shot but maybe I'm trusting my HDTV too much ;)

What was interesting was Andrea Kremer saying that Tomlin admitted "there was more to it than the foot injury". Other reports mention Tomlin being miffed about the situation in his post game Q&A.

by santhome on Dec 3, 2007 12:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Not sure what to say about the running game!
If we had gone up against some tough run D's the last few weeks I would feel better about it, but sadly we've gone up against some of the worst!  You'd think a good passing game and the way Ben has been playing would only help Willie, but no.  IS the offensive line?  OR FWP? or Arians?  Or what??  I know FWP is going to get shut down, but where are his 30+ yd runs?  And he has never played poorly against bad run D's.  I am at a loss.  I wish he would get more screens as well.  Something ain't right.  But I'll take the wins and hope that Willie just ain't a mudder.
"It's time to plant some seeds. What that means is, hit them in the mouth. Ya know, plant some seeds. Show 'em what time it is." --Levon Kirkland

by steelerinchicago on Dec 3, 2007 11:41 AM EST   0 recs

FWP
I'm just as lost as you are. You'd think with the passing game blowing up, that the running game would be effective. I tend to think it's more of an OL and play calling problem but you never know.

For whatever reason Arians doesn't seem concerned with getting FWP the ball out of the backfield. Right now he's on pace for only 23 receptions a game.

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 3, 2007 11:53 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

what the heck does that mean Blitz
I for one, don't think so, but the reality is this offense needs to find a way to not get in the way of the team's success when the D has it going on. When you have a HOF WR in Hines Ward, a burgeoning Pro-Bowl deep threat in Santonio, one of the most most underrated TEs in the game, and a QB who is proving capable of learning from past mistakes, why would you ever consider shutting down the offense and instead relying on a defense to win games? You wouldn't obviously. At this point in the season, there's too much evidence that suggests this Steelers defense is as good as there is in the National Football League. The trick is going to be finding the right balance of agression and patient, mistake-free intelligence on offense.  If we can find a way to limit Wes Welker next week, I think we'll show the world that even the mighty juggornaut that is the Patriots offense can be contained by the right combination of scheme and athleticism on the defensive side of the ball. Even if they do get torched, I'm damn proud of this defense, and happy knowing they'll probably give us a chance to at least compete for victories come playoff time.
Anybody got any idea what the hell I was talking about here? Some decent ideas in my post, but that definitely wasn't one of them. Pretty damn incomprehensible. I think I was trying to say..'if only our offense could come close to matching the play of the defense, we'd be in damn good shape.'

by Blitzburgh on Dec 3, 2007 5:52 PM EST   0 recs

Davenport, Starks update
Guys, I haven't heard anymore news on Davenport, but Tomlin holds his press conference tomorrow. Something's fishy. If Davenport is iffy, I think the Steelers will make a move to sign a running back to the squad rather than activating another rookie, RB Justin Vincent, off of the practice squad. They won't go into New England with only 3 RBs on the roster.

Verron Hayes I think is a viable option because they would need someone who could play RB, FB, serve as the 3rd down back and play on special teams. Verron can do all of that because he's done it before, knows the playbook and should be completely healthy from that knee injury.

As for Starks, Jim Wexell of scout.com said yesterday that if M. Smith plays this week, that Starks could see a substantial amount of time at right tackle and might even start. The coaches are apparently really pleased with the play of Starks the past two games. I am as shocked by the play of Starks as anyone.

Okay, let's start a discussion on something I never thought I would ask at the beginning of this year: should the Steelers resign Max Starks?

At this time and with his improvement, I think they should definitely think seriously about it. Someone who can play LT and RT, has started for a Super Bowl team and is only in their 4th year will draw some big bucks in free agency. Any which way you look at it, he has made some money these past two games. If he keeps it up, I say sign him and stick him at right tackle, move Willie Colon on the inside and draft some tackles.
We all know Faneca is gone, so use some of that money to prepare for the OL of the future.

Blitzburg, you've been a Starks supporter all year and called it first about giving him another chance. What are your thoughts, B, and what are your thoughts, Steelers Nation?

by datruth4life on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 AM EST   0 recs

Starks
Starks has really surprised me the past two games especially considering the guys he was up agianst (Jason Taylor and Justin Smith), and I'm starting to question whether or not they should look at resigning him. I was nearly 100% ready to let him walk after last year, even though I thought he never got a fair shot at the job in camp. It all depends on what kind of money he's looking for.

I was reading this story over at AOL's blog though and it sounds like it makes sense. I don't spend alot of time breaking down offensive line play but if he does see some extended play time this weekend it'll be interesting to see how he handles pass protection. It sounds like the knock on Starks has always been pass proctection, but he is a dominant run blocker at times. Colon from what I've read and seen is about average at both instead of good or bad.

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 4, 2007 8:15 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

datruth
I'd have to take a look at the available talent at the tackle position in this year's draft as well as take a look at the market for tackles in free agency this year. It the pickings are slim in the FA pool, Starks would probably command more money than we'd be willing to pay. If it's a deeper crop, I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to resign him.

As for the draft, anyone got a list of the best talent along the line?

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 10:39 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

check out this site
New Era Scouting seems to be a pretty good site as far as scouting for the draft goes. One of the guys who runs this is the same guy who's in running Sports Nation's Mocking the Draft site. Jake Long will probably be a top 3 pick but any of the guys under him will possibly be available at the end of the first.

I've started stockpiling some college games on my DVR so I can see some of these guys first hand but I haven't started sifting through them yet.  

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 4, 2007 10:51 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

cool
Check in with a report this offseason when you do get a chance to evaluate whats out there.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 12:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

cool
Check in with a report this offseason when you do get a chance to evaluate whats out there.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 12:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I will make a main page post about this
With your question datruth. It's worthy of a discussion, no doubt.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 10:40 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

dollars tough
Starks has played well and the Steelers should definitely try to sign him, but I don't see a scenario where they can match other teams' offers. He is not a long-term answer as a starter in reconstruction of the O-line.  He is what he is ... a good backup who has come in and done the job under circumstances where his lack of quickness is not a factor. That's all. His Steeler pedigree and a Super Bowl team resume will get him decent bucks somewhere else, with luck for a team we play against frequently. Bottom line our priority is to somewhat overspend on a proven guard who can replace Faneca, draft two OL on the first day and figure out how to immediately upgrade center and right guard, most likely internally.

The only other option I see is to trade Foote or preferably Haggans for a guard or center who has credentials similar to a starting Steeler linebacker. Not sure what Foote and Haggans contract status is, but we can afford to lose one of them given our depth.

by steeler lifer on Dec 4, 2007 1:17 PM EST   0 recs

yes
This is a good point. I need to look at the ages and contracts of our LBs, but I agree that we may be able to unload one of them to adress these issues. Foote and Farrior are playing sick football, yet I don't think I would consider either one of them irreplacable by any stretch.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 2:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

LB
Here's Foote's (27)-- signed a five year deal before the 2005 season, so he's locked up until after the 2009 season.

And Farrior (32)signed a five year deal before the 2004 season so he's good through next year.

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 4, 2007 2:53 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Deep OL Draft
The Steelers are fortunate in that this is probably the deepest the draft has been in OTs in the past 5 or 6 years. There are as many as 5 tackles that could go in the first round with probably about 3 or 4 more going in the second round.

I expect the Steelers to go back to back with OTs for its 1st and 2nd round pick in the draft. The question they have to figure out is Starks playing above his head, or has loosing his job to Colon lit a fire under him and he finally "gets it"? I don't know.

I'd still try to sign him, if I'm the steelers. And forget this trading a starting LB to get another player. The Steelers don't do that stuff. They want depth at all positions, and once they get it, let the players compete for starting spots.

I think you will see even more of that under Tomlin than you did Cowher.

by datruth4life on Dec 4, 2007 4:57 PM EST   0 recs

LBs
I agree with you in theory, and you're right, the Steelers dont have any history of doing that, but what are you going to do the next two to three years if Foote, Farrior, Haggans and Harrison continue to play such good football? Do we just let Haggans walk away to open up an opportunity for Timmons and/or Woodley? I agree that depth and competition on the squad is a good thing, but at what point does it become an issue for all that talent to compete for a limited number of spots?

Some follow up on this would be great, datruth.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 9:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

for what it's worth
Here are Haggans and Harrison's contract status:

Haggans is in the final year of his deal and will be an unrestricted free agent, oh yea and he's already 30 years old.

Harrison is signed through the 2009 season.

I'm not sure that the Steelers will make much of an effort to resign Haggans. They don't have much of a history of resigning 30+ year old guys and I would think they would rather have Woodley starting next year anyways. It's great having depth and quality depth at that but with Ben's mega contract coming soon, I wouldn't be surprised if they just let him walk.

 

"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 5, 2007 8:21 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Here's a hot sports opinion
JJ Cooper over at AOL Fanhouse has an intersting if not controversial opinion of Hines Ward's Hall of Fame chances. To summarize he says Hines will no doubt hold every Steelers recieving record but his numbers simply aren't in line with other premier receievers in this new era. He adds at the end that his only shot is to get in on intagibles (blocking, toughness, character). Needless to say I'm sure this is a debate that we'll carry on for the next decade or so.
"The more violent team will win tonight" - Mike Tomlin.

by cgolden on Dec 4, 2007 6:05 PM EST   0 recs

Football HOF
It's kind of a joke compared to the baseball HOF. Very inconsistent in their selection process. Two words: Art Monk. Any story of the history of the WR position has to include him, and you can't use the SB argument either: he has 3.

I think Ward would be well served padding those numbers quite a bit the next couple of years, and Cooper's right, Ward will be going up against guys like TO, Marvin Harrison, and Moss.

I don't know though, he's such a complete player, has never played in a pass-happy system, has a SB MVP, very durable, and if you're looking for an intangible, how about the first Korean born player in the NFL? Not saying he should get in for that, but in today's world, I wouldnt be surprised if that's considered by at least some of the voters. Plus, Ward has absolutely zero enemies in the press - which sadly is a very important thing for one's chances. I don't buy any argument against Monk's candidacy that doesn't at least include his reclusive, standoffish nature as at least part of the reason he has lost some votes over the years.

by Blitzburgh on Dec 4, 2007 9:41 PM EST   0 recs

HOF
Yeah, it seems that sometimes it takes another HOF player campaigning to get someone in (e.g. Swann for Stallworth).  Right now, no one's campaigning to get Monk in, but I agree, he should be in.  No way should Michael Irvin be in before Monk, but he had Aikman to mention his name the year before.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Dec 5, 2007 1:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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