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The Giants Derrick Ward: Receiving RBs Pose Threat To Steelers D

UPDATE (1:15 EST): Added "long" and "TD" column to spreadsheet. - TMVT

As many experts, fans, and bloggers like myself have mentioned, the Giants not only feature the monstrous power running of Brandon Jacobs, but have two other excellent complementary backs, Derrick Ward, and Ahmad Bradshaw.  Both are the quicker, shiftier type of back, and both have the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and make a play.  It seems the Giants favor Ward in this particular area, so we will focus on him.  (Bradshaw has only 3 receptions this year, versus 13 for Ward).  Ward is averaging 8.9 yards per catch out of the backfield, a pretty healthy number, so our defense will need to wrap up upon first chance with Ward.

As we all remember from the early 2000s with Kevin Faulk of NE shredding us, running backs who can catch the ball in the flat and make people miss can be a true game-changer.  In fact if you asked me before the '04 AFC champ game who I feared most, I would have said Kevin Faulk.  So let's take a look at the Steelers defense this year (and a few examples from previous years) on how we've done against receptions out of the backfield, and what that might tell us about the chances we face against Derrick Ward.

RB Catches Against The Steelers
Running Back Catches Yards Avg. Long TD
Correll Buckhalter/Lorenzo Booker '08 8 49 6.12 20 1
Steve Slaton/Ahman Greene '08 7 9 1.28 6 0
Maurice Jones-Drew '08 6 23 3.83 15 0
Maurice Jones-Drew '07 (Reg. Season) 5 30 6 8 0
Browns '08 (Lewis, Harrison, Vickers) 5 54 10.8 23 0

 

As you can see, RBs have caught the ball against us with varying degrees of success.  It seems for the most part that we do a pretty good job of either keeping these catches bottled up, or even limiting them from happening (alot of the box scores I checked had only one or two catches for opposing RBs).  However, it also seems that every couple games we give up a 20+ yard gain to an RB catch out of the backfield.  Buckhalter had one for a TD against us, and Harrison had a 20 yarder for the Browns against us.  Those are two of the longer pass plays against us all year. 

I think a big factor in why an RB will get a big gain off of us is that we play to keep deep passes in front of us with our secondary.  This leaves them downfield, and if the RB catches the ball in the flat with space and makes one LB miss, he'll most likely have plenty of room for a big gain before a CB or Safety can get to the ball to help.  Again, more often than not our LBs make the tackle, but when they do miss, we get gashed.  Furthermore, my memory tells me alot of RB dump-offs are in 3rd and (usually) impossible long situations, with the RB picking up a big chunk of yardage, but not the first down.  Further research would be necessary to examine this.

A healthy Troy Polamalu and the increased playing time of Lawrence Timmons would go a long way towards helping in this respect.  Both are players who are typically in or around the box, and feature outrageous closing speed.  That is exactly what is needed to stop an RB out in the flat, particularly if our OLBs blow the assignment or don't get there in time.  Look for the Giants to test us on this early in the game, as it is also an effective weapon against our outside pass rush, and various blitzes.  If they hit a couple of those passes for big gains early, look for LeBeau to adjust by using Timmons alot more in base downs (especially with Derrick Ward in the game).  Then of course the issue becomes, does Timmons have the run stopping ability to take on Brandon Jacobs....ah the chess match of football.  One thing is for sure, we are going to find out alot about our team come Sunday.  Limiting Derrick Ward, without compromising our effectiveness against the power running game, would go a long way towards a Pittsburgh victory.

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Missing column

Can you add a column for “Long”. Having the average yards up there without a long doesn’t give a complete picture IMHO

by vin2k on Oct 22, 2008 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I've got it

Texans – 6
Browns – 23
Eagles – 20
Ravens – 25
Jags – 15
Bengals – 10

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Oct 22, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, two of the more memorable catches included blown assignments or missed takles: Buckhalter beat Silverback badly to the edge for a 20 yard TD, and Harrison for the Browns broke either Foote or Farrior’s tackle to spring his gain.

TMVT – I agree that some of these catches are garbage plays on 3rd and 20, but some of the time they either get a first down or gain such a large chunk of yardage that they might go to a 4th and 1 or pick up a lot of field position. That’s a lot better than giving up the first, but 15 yards of field position is nothing to sneeze at.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Oct 22, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

for sure

there are many cases where they just simply gash us and get a 1st down. was just proposing where some of it may come from. maybe down the road we can team up and analyze this further.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your diligent researcher here

Here is what happened on passes to RBs on the top 3 averages listed in this article:

Browns ’08, all throws to RBs
    Lewis catches – 13 yards on 1st and 10
    Lewis catches – 6 yards on 1st and 10
    Lewis catches – 9 yards on 2nd and 16
    Harrison catches – 23 yards on 1st and 10
    Harrison catches – incomplete
   Vickers catches – 3 yards on 1st and 10

Eagles ’08, all throws to RBs
    Buckhalter catches – 3 yards on 2nd and 20
    Buckhalter catches – 11 yards on 1st and 10
    Buckhalter catches – 20 yards on 1st and 10 (TD)
    Buckhalter catches – 2 yards on 1st and 10
    Buckhalter catches – 5 yards on 2nd and 3
    Buckhalter catches – 3 yards on 1st and 10
    Booker catches – 4 yards on 3rd and 3
    Booker catches – incomplete

Jags ’07, all throws to RBs
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – 6 yards on 3rd and 9
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – 4 yards on 2nd and 9
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – 7 yards on 3rd and 8 (they convert on 4th)
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – incomplete
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – 8 yards on 3rd and 8
    Jones-DrewJagoff catches – Minus 2 yards on 2nd and 1

by steelguy99 on Oct 22, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

great stuff

thanks to both you guys, i’m going to update the article to include the “longs” and the “lows” for each player in the little spreadsheet.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

summaries

In the browns and eagles instances, only one 3rd down pass to RBs was made and it was converted.
The jags last year tried it on 3rd down twice, got a 1st down once, almost a 1st down once, and failed once.

Generally speaking I think you can say that teams that have gathered a high YPC for RBs catching did so without “junk yardage”. That is, yardage gained that is well short of the first down.

Out of 20 passes total:
    8 went for first downs
    5 first downs were longer than 5 yards
    4 were longer than 10 yards
    4 were for NO yards

by steelguy99 on Oct 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

great stuff

and from what you’ve researched so far, I stand corrected.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

updated. added columns for long and TDs.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

that was incredible. Thanks.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Oct 22, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what I did like

about the Eagles game is early on we were sitting back in coverage and letting them pick up those gains. immediately after the Buckhalter TD we tightened up on it as the game went on. Something I thought then and your numbers back up now.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple things

more often than not a big gain is probably from us having our corners deep, either by defensive design, or necessity as the receivers are running deep to clear out space for the RBs. When I mentioned “my memory” I meant more in general in NFL history, I feel like you see alot of dump-offs to RBs on 3rd and 20, etc for big “garbage” gains before conceding the punt. Thanks to both you guys for giving me numbers to help further hone my thinking on it though.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, when I was writing those I was thinking about putting in who tackled. Without looking back through it all my gut tells me that most of the tackles on the long runs were from CBs or safeties, which seems obvious. You figure if a guy gets a 10 yard run the LBs missed him, and the time it takes the CBs / safety to get there is the amount of yardage gained.

by steelguy99 on Oct 22, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You hit the nail on the head...

I’ve been saying for the past few weeks that it’s time for Timmons to be a full time defender. I know his critics question Timmons’ ability to shed blockers on the inside running game but the only way to determine if he’s capable of handling that kind of physical pressure is to put him in there. Personally I think he’s a physical specimen and quite capable of handling the inside running game.

Ultimately this game will hinge on Steelers ability to stop Brandon Jacobs. If the linebackers can contain him and close quickly on the scat backs they should be successful. Just my opinion.

by Steev1705 on Oct 22, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think all this is awesome information......

How you guys pull those stats together so quickly is pretty amazing – Wish some of the guys that work for me were that responsive……ok – on to my questions:

First – Do these stats count towards run yardage or pass? I wonder because with our run avg across games it makes me feel that these are one off plays that we ultimately shut down through the course of the game.

Second – I find this stuff really interesting – but with the the level and consistency our D has been playing, even when we had our worst games of the year, I’m not overly worried that they are all of a sudden going to drop to their knees and fall apart in one game.

So that leaves to the final question – While this may or may not be a huge risk for us going into this game (and the next part of this actually will probably lead into starting the next thread) What does the offense need to do to overpower the pretty consistent and overall effective defense of NY? I mean NY like us has had issues moving the ball consistently and I’d say that puts us relatively close on the offensive side as for talent – but what do you think we need to do differently to change our offense consistency and move the ball through all 4 quarters?

by LA Steeler Fan on Oct 22, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

1) TMVT and all discussion following only relates to RBs catching out of the backfield.

2) Very true, but I’d argue that the only decent offense we have played has been the eagles. The D acquitted themselves very well, but we do not have a substantial body of evidence that says they can play against solid offensive teams. This will be the only team we have played that is top 5 in rushing, and by top 5 I mean #1. They are also top 2 on total offense. We have not played against this yet. I have faith in our D, but they very much do have something to prove.

by steelguy99 on Oct 22, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LA Steeler Fan

thanks for the compliments, I certainly work harder at this than at my last job hahaha.

1) They count towards pass yardage, as Steelguy pointed out.

2) I’m not worried our D will fall to its knees, I think we will be fine and handle the Giants offense for the most part. They’ll put together a couple good drives, as they are a very good offense, but I think we hold them to under 15. Just want to show some stuff to us Steelers fans about what the Giants do well, and how our defense will look to defend it.

3) As far as what our offense needs to do, probably have a piece (or pieces) coming in the next few days talking about that. I think the offenses are fairly even, I like Ben better than Eli, but they have a better O-line so it mitigates that somewhat. We don’t need to move the ball, EVERY quarter. As long as we move the ball here and there and get 4 or so scoring drives. Doesn’t matter if they all come in one or two quarters or across all 4. That many scoring drives, with our defense will give us a great chance to win.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 22, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Super fun game

This game is a pittsburgh win.

The combined win count of the Giants opponents, not just victories, is 11. Take away the 2 wins from cleveland since they beat you, and you have 9.

Factor in that the Redskins were a complete mess in their first game against NYG, and the giants STILL didnt beat them good, and you’re talking about a hype team right now.

Pittsburgh has at least beaten two .500 teams, and a couple playoff contenders at that. I expect this team to show what they really are, a SB competitor.

I think the biggest most defining matchup will be one of the following:
1) Our CB’s vs their WR’s. This concerns me a little. Without B-Mac, and a not quite 100% Townsend, I get edgy. Im sure with Big Snack up front we can at least drop another man back and stay on the pass rush at the same time. Hopefully we can handle em.

2) Willie “whats coming out of his” Colon vs Justin Tuck. Tuck has been a beast, and the pass rush of NYG is pretty hardcore. We should certainly bring in a TE on that side and do some block n go routes to try and slow that side down. I think the left side will survive, but the right side worries me this game.

I think we win it on defense mainly. We will snuff out that offense and keep them under 20 points. I call it 26-17.

by Mechem on Oct 22, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I certainly agree with your two points, and would factor in as a bonus to us the fact that our defense is the best that the Giants have even come close to seeing, but comparing the Giants opponents to ours is a bit of a moot point. Both the Giants and the Steelers will be playing their toughest foe so far. It’s a winnable game for us, no doubt, but with our injuries and O-line how we gameplan is going to be the difference in my mind.

Brandona

by PrimantisStillersNAt on Oct 22, 2008 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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