Eli Manning vs. Ben Roethlisberger: The Case For Eli
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 1:54 AM EDT
134 comments
The following is Ed Valentine's take on who he would rather have as his QB - Ben Roethlisberger or Eli Manning. Ed writes the popular Giants blog Big Blue View. My case for Big Ben can be found here. Check it out. -Blitz-
[EDITOR'S NOTE: The careers of Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are forever intertwined. Both first-round picks in 2004. Both quarterbacks of proud, original NFL franchises. Both Super Bowl winners already. We will always wonder how things would have worked out if the Giants had drafted Ben with their pick at No. 4 in 2004 instead of engineering the trade for Eli -- not that we are complaining, of course. So, it is always fun to compare them.
With the Giants and Steelers meeting this week, that is what Michael Bean of Behind the Steel Curtain and I have decided to do. I will, of course, make the case for why I would rather have Eli. Michael will make the case from the Pittsburgh side for why Ben is better. His article will appear on my Giants site, Big Blue View. So, let's have at it.]
Why I would rather have Eli
Let me start by saying this -- Ben Roethlisberger is a tremendous quarterback, probably one of the five best in the league. Had the Giants drafted him in 2004 I have no doubt Giants fans would be absolutely thrilled to have Big Ben as our quarterback.
Let me also say this. I also understand that, in standing up for Eli here, I have the more difficult argument to make. Purely looking at the statistics, Roethlisberger's numbers dwarf Manning's.
- Completion percentage: Advantage Roethlisberger, 63.2% to 55.4%.
- Quarterback rating: Advantage Roethlisberger, 93.0 to 74.9.
- Interceptions: Eli has 68 to Ben's 57, although Eli has about 400 more attempts.
- Touchdowns: Advantage Roethlisberger, 93-85.
Even this season, when Eli is statistically having his best season (61.8% completions, 89.1 rating) Roethlisberger's numbers are slightly better (63.2% completions, 98.1 rating).
So, how on earth can I make the argument that I would choose Eli over Roethlisberger?
If you have watched Manning play, as I have, since the beginning of the 2007 playoffs, you know how I can make that choice.
As good as Roethlisberger is, I believe he is as good as he is ever going to get. Aside from his miserable, injury-plagued 2006 season his numbers have been pretty consistent throughout his career. He's damn good, but he isn't going to get better.
There is one other thingworking against Roethlisberger. That would be the number of hits Roethlisberger takes behind that Pittsburgh line. He has been sacked 65 more times in his career than Eli, and hit countless more. Whether that is his fault or the line's, or a combination of both I don't know. Eventually, though, that has to take a toll.
Eli, I believe, is just beginning to scratch the surface of the ability that he possesses. In last year's playoffs he completed 60.5 percent of his passes, had six touchdown passes, just one interception, outplayed Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Brett Favre and Tom Brady. He has picked up from there this season, playing the best football of his career.
It has taken Manning longer to reach the stardom that many predicted for him, but he has. And when you see the difference in him from the uncertain, often erratic quarterback he still was toward the end of last season to the confident leader and much more accurate passer he is today he makes you believe his best is yet to become.
I can't wait to see what else he has in store for Giants fans as his career continues to unfold. That is why I will take Eli.
0 recs |
134 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Very diplomatic
“Why I choose Eli” – that’s a very nice way to put it while you’re talking to Steelers fans :) I’m not going to nitpick point by point (especially not on who you should like more), but I have a couple thoughts.
What’s the basis of saying Roethlisberger won’t get better? Eli has established his career tendencies as much as Ben has, and if you want to say he’s turned a corner, why couldn’t Ben, who’s been plagued with an bad OL and a bad coordinator for the past 2 years? Ben also had his best season last year, and right now the offense is in the process of being reformed in his image. That’s a pretty big transition, with plenty of potential for upside (or disaster).
Also, you may disagree, but I think there’s a strong correlation between Eli’s improved numbers this year and the Giants dominant running game. I’ll give him the whole playoffs last year, but 4 games don’t make a great QB. Ben wasn’t taken seriously for years because of the Steelers running game that was more stubborn the dominant. We averaged 4.0 ypc for each of his first 2 years, compared to the Giants insane 5.6 ypc this year. That’s an awfully favorable situation for a QB. Defensive game plans have to focus on stopping the run first.
Ultimately I respect your opinions, we’ll usually side with our own guys, and time will solve the question better than our talk will. Here’s to a good game and few injuries.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Oct 22, 2008 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome ETVal
I’ll actually try to help you a bit with your case – before saying why I think Ben is not only better than Eli, but actually second to only Brady and Manning and will possibly eclipse both of them.
The one thing the Ben gets fair criticism for over the past couple years is poor decisions making. Not all of those 47 sacks from last year were the fault of the O-Line. Ben has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long. Part of that is poor play calling, part of that is too long isn’t very long at all with our porous o-line over the past couple years, and part of it is Ben’s biggest challenge and probably his biggest strength is that the guy sometimes has more guts than brains.
Remember that amazing play that Eli made in the super bowl were he somehow managed to elude three tacklers and get the ball way downfield. Ben tends to make that play three times a game. Problem is you really don’t want to make the play three times a game. You want to make it maybe once in the fourth quarter.
Having made that criticism, Ben is really a treat to watch play. Since the day he took over the offense under immense scrutiny, to his RIDICULOUS rookie season, through his incredible Super Bowl run (yes he may have played bad in the game, but boy was he good getting there) to his coming back from near death with an apandectomy thrown in, this guy has been a fan favorite for good reason.
Steeler fans through the 80’s and 90’s were used to watching their QB kill us in tough moments. Now we have gotten used to a guy who is a leader and often a hero. No matter what the circumstances this guy is a gamer, a leader and a passionate pro who is at the top of his game AND geting better.
by SteelerBuddha on Oct 23, 2008 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've
seen Ben in the past and I love his arm and ability to allude a tackle(s). I believe both of them will get much better. It only makes sense. Although statistically unequal, they both win. Their careers will always be intertwined. In Eli’s case, his demeanor did not allow him to come out of his shell. Today, he is in good command of this offense and seems more vocally established. Listening to his teammates talk about him, they believe in his ability to lead and his presence in the huddle. Him winning the SB in such dramatic and historic fashion has opened his ability to another level. He looks a lot like Big Brother on the line. Cadences and all. He manages first and slings it when he needs too (2 minute drill). So for all the ‘aw shucks’ looks he may have when he struggles he is no longer the “little brother” who can’t quite hack it and his play has mirrored this.
by ProudYankee on Oct 23, 2008 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've
always thought that Eli has a permanent ‘someone-stole-my-lunch-money’ look on his face :) Nothing against his QBing…he just looks like he’s 12
by TheCincinnatiConqueror on Oct 23, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Ill ‘rec’ that CincyConq. Funny shit. ‘Aw shucks Peyton, they stole my milk money.’
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time
Yes, time will ultimately tell. Obviously, you guys watch Ben every week and I don’t. I just see so much improvement in Eli it makes me really excited to see what the future will bring.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for good reason
EVERYTHING about him seems different. Way he walks off the field after a mistake – in past, i disapproved of that droopy shit hed display on his face. Obviously though the biggest thing is mechanics and just accelerated understanding of whats going on around him. Eli seems to be to be real smart – but he has a personality thats similar to mine – he likes to think things thru before acting. Thats fine and well, but doesnt work well on football field. As hes able to process things more quickly, Ive noticed he just doesnt end up on his back foot throwing to wear he initially was looking after the snap.
And of course, CANT BE EASY BEING PEYTONS BROTHER. Sheesh. High bar to hurdle and he’s done an admirable job even staying afloat.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no offense
to you Ed, but BTSC is about level-headed posting and I just don’t see how any objective football fan can pick Eli over Ben. Even with him “accurate” now, he still isn’t as accurate as Ben. I mean your only argument is that Ben was so good early he doesn’t have anywhere to go up. Very hard argument to make, especially since Ben has also improved since his rookie year. He didn’t shoulder nearly the load early on that he does now. I’ll let Blitz respond on your site tomorrow before I go too in depth over here.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 23, 2008 2:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that being said
do appreciate you coming over for the cross-banter.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 23, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I'd take Ben
But there is an argument to be made for intangibles and it’s basis is around one game: The Super Bowl.
Ben nearly lost the game for his team. Eli almost single-handedly made his team win. In the biggest game of your career that’s a pretty important distinction. Regardless, I think that has more to do with Roethlisberger being 23, and Manning having already shouldered a lot of hardship and having had the time to mature. Either way I think they are both great Qbs.
Specifically, I love Eli’s stoic personality. It’s one of the best thing to happen to the Giants. NY is a market where you can turn into the mockery that America’s Team™ is in less time than it takes to play 4 quarters.
by BallsofSteel on Oct 23, 2008 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Balls
Yes there are arguments — good ones — for both guys. That’s why this is fun to talk about.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear that argument
about the SB and think of one key difference: who they were playing. Giants were playing the undefeated Patriots, everyone on that team had to elevate their game to a higher level just to have a chance. After the Stillers beat the Colts, that was pretty much it. Smooth sailing from there on out. I think most of us understood that the Super Bowl wasn’t held in Detroit but in Indy, winner of that game takes it all. My favorite Big Ben trait is that he is a gamer, he does whats needed to win. Yes he had a bad game in the Super Bowl, but I don’t think we were asking him to do too much
by TheCincinnatiConqueror on Oct 23, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
so you’re gonna use the fact that the Giants beat quite possibly the greatest team in NFL history in the Super Bowl as a point AGAINST ElI? Sorry, I’m not buying that one…
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think his point was
beating Indy at Indy was the game against the best team in the NFL as opposed to the Seahawks. Ben turned in one of the most amazing playoff QB performances in that game ending with him making a game saving tackle in the open field against a cornerback
by schnifin on Oct 23, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admitted
The Eli choice is a harder argument to make. I am acknowledging how good Ben is. One thing is I think early in his career the Giants asked too much of Eli — much more than the Steelers asked of Roethlisberger. Numbers-wise, that is reflected in the number of throws each has made. I think it also skews Eli’s numbers. Of course I am a Giants fan and that skews my opinion. Here is an opinion that agrees with mine — http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8706272?MSNHPHMA. BTW, as long as we keep the debate friendly it’s all good. In the end, there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer here, just our opinion.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants
Won the super bowl because of Eli
The Steelers won the super bowl in spite of ben
by Hoyadestroya85 on Oct 23, 2008 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
real original
Steelers got to the SB beacuse of Ben. HUGE performances THREE straight weeks on the road. Think for yourself a bit more.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben
is still a quality qb.. and he was younger at the time though
by Hoyadestroya85 on Oct 23, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
now if this were a debate between Eli and Antwan Randle El, we’d have a different story ;)
I’m kidding of course. Truth be told, though I’m a Giants fan, I still think I might take Roethlisberger. Coming out of college, I thought he was going to be terrible, but boy have I been proven wrong. And our Eli trump card when comparing him to other QBs (specifically Romo, McNabb, and Campbell) has been “well, our guy won a Super Bowl.” Unfortunately, so has your guy. Granted, he didn’t play as well in the game, and he didn’t beat an 18-0 team to do it, but he won the big one, and similar to Eli he lead a Wild Card team to do it.
Right now I think Big Ben is probably the 3rd best QB in the league, behind Brady and Peyton, and truth be told there’s a real good chance he might be the best, what with Brady’s injury and Peyton playing like, well, Eli circa 2005. I think Eli is in that next group down, along with guys like Romo, Favre, McNabb, and Brees, which is not a bad place to be in, of course. Anyway, hopefully it’ll be a great game (that Eli will win, of course) on Sunday, and maybe a preview of another game later in the season?
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe
I used the phrase “truth be told” twice in one post. SBN really needs an edit post option…
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good thoughts man
Agree, I think Ben’s at #3. I imagine Brady will come back just fine, and Peyton of course, isnt done yet.
Youre also right imo that Eli is right below in that group with McNabb and Romo. I think Brees is a smidge better personally than Eli and Romo (hard to say with McNabb because hes a bit older and so beat up over the years), but I think Eli’s celing is higher than Romo’s and I definitely think Elis teams is vastly superior to Brees’. Manning could easily win more SBs than the older Manning if the Giants continue to be run well upstairs.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's at least 4
Brees is just simply awesome
by Hoyadestroya85 on Oct 23, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but I have to disagree
The Giants D won that game.
Eli didn’t lose it.
He made one great escape and Tyree made one unbelievable catch. Let’s not get too carried away saying Eli won it all by himself.
Stopping the Pats O is what won that SB for the Giants.
by 703Steeler on Oct 23, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’ve said before that the giants D-line deserved that MVP far more than Eli. He played well, but made quite a few mistakes as well.
by Chicago Steeler on Oct 23, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice write up
I think the simple answer is this, each is the perfect fit.
I dont think manning would fit a Steeler team, and I dont really think Ben fits the Giants. Truth is, Ben is a Pittsburgh steeler almost as if he was being bred for them. The way he plays is exactly what Pittsburgh ball is about.
Although, Eli did look a heck of a lot like Ben on that winning SB drive. Props.
by Mechem on Oct 23, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if u read my write up on the giants site
i touch on exactly that. they are both the right fit for their respective markets.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to cause a stir
Compare these two QBs:
QB A: 62 games, 59.8 %, 11,131 yards, 6.5 ypa, 64 TDs, 67 Ints, 75.1 QB rating
QB B: 63 games, 55.4 %, 12,774 yards, 6.4 ypa, 85 TDs, 68 Ints, 74.9 QB rating
The numbers are awful close and if you consider that one of those guys is playing on an expansion team and his best receiver was Kevin Johnson, the case should be closed. Just for the record, QB A (aka Tim Couch) was out of the league after just 5 seasons, while QB B (aka Eli Manning) is well Eli.
by cgolden on Oct 23, 2008 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no different than the rest of society
People of privlige get better and more opportunities.
Bow down before cgolden. That’s fucking amazing comparison, brother.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice stats, but ...
It’s also a perfect example of why stats only tell you so much. You can spin numbers to make basically any point you want. Nobody in their right mind would tell you Tim Couch is/was as good a QB as Eli Manning. It also tells you nothing about the improvement in Eli over the past year, and what he is today.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
spin?
I presented the raw numbers. If it is possible to spin raw numbers though, I’d love to hear how you could look at Eli’s stats vs. Ben’s and say that Eli is or ever will be a better QB?
by cgolden on Oct 23, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who was a better QB
Marino or Bradshaw?
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
just making sure you weren’t gonna be hypocritical
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
read below
Thats why I feel a bit bad ribbing on Ed because hes just showing love, but lets face it, its not really a debate. We can be happy with both, but reality is Bens a better football player. Cant quite say as confidently how both will mature into their 30s when Ben loses some of his unique physical gifts due to age, but for now, its not really a debate.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does QB rating
really favor completion pct. that much over TDs? Eli has thrown 21 more TDs to only 2 INTs (which would be an MVP-worthy season), while completing only 4% fewer passes. And in only 1 more game, he has thrown for 1,600 more yards (which would be a pretty fantastic game, no?)
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for further fun
compare eli’s stats with his current backup carr, especially year 5 carr vs eli now.
by vherub on Oct 23, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy answer
Here is an easy answer to the question of Ben over Eli. Take a poll of Giants fans if they had to do it over, would they pick Ben or Eli. Then poll Steelers fans if they had to do it over, would they pick Eli over Ben.
I have a suspicion that a larger percentage of Steelers fans would have chosen Ben then the percentage of Giants fanse that would have chosen Eli. I could be wrong, but that is my hunch.
Also, on the subject of upside. The NFL is litered with 1st round bust that had plenty of upside. What matters is winning, not potential.
by vin2k on Oct 23, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in my post
i said that we knew from day 1 we had something special, whiel giants fans now think the world of him even though as of last novemeber they were calling for his head.
totally true..if u put a gun to giants fans head and said who would u REALLY take, the choice would be clear.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I don’t think that answer is as clear cut as you might think. Reason for that is the Giants didn’t ‘draft’ Eli. They had to trade for him, and give up a couple of other high draft picks as well. I have often said that, as it turned out, it was a trade the Giants didn’t need to make. Roethlisberger is tremendous, and would have been tremendous in New York — and the Giants could have kept the draft picks San Diego ended up getting. That said, all’s well that ends well. This has worked out great for both teams.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry to do this again
But I was tipped off by mr. money cgolden.
Ed you answered my quesiton about what you would do if there was a gun to your head. You asked yourself the same question:
While I think it’s still to be determined which will have the greater overall career, if you put a gun to my head today and made me choose I would have to take Roethlisberger. I really want to take Eli, but Roethlisberger’s body of work is, to this point, more impressive.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mind u
this was in march of 08. very objective of u, i gotta admit.
I dont criticize you sticking up for you 5-1 QB, but I do wonder what has changed so much.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth is
to this point Roethlisberger’s body of work is better. What is different is that so far this season we see an Eli we have never seen before in terms of confidence, leadership, understanding of what is going on around him, accuracy with the football. My argument never was based on the numbers, it’s a more subjective one. I believe Roethlisberger is a ‘finished’ product — what you see is what you get. I believe Eli is just beginning to come into his own, and his best football is yet to be played.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yo
u going to post my Q&A with u?
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
But, probably not until tomorrow. Was figuring I’d just let this ‘little’ debate play itself out.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
I’ll vehemently disagree with you that Ben is a finished but I’ll put that to the side for a second to ask you this. If you feel that Ben is as good as he’s ever going to be at 26 years old and Eli is still on the way up at 27, will Eli ever get to Ben’s level? And if so, are you talking next year, three years, five years down the road?
Just so I’m not spinning anything, here’s their career stats to date and how far Eli has to go:
Eli: 63 games, 55.4 %, 12,774 yards, 6.4 ypa, 85 TDs, 68 Ints, 74.9 QB rating
Ben: 62 games, 63.2 %, 12836 yards, 8.1 ypa, 93 TDs, 57 Ints, 93.0 QB rating
by cgolden on Oct 23, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Golden
I’m aware of the numbers. They are in my post. All we can do is see how it plays out. They are both terrific QBs and, as Blitz has said, fit their teams perfectly.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just Do It
So TMVT and ETVal, are you all going to put up the poll on the respective fan sites or what? Let’s get some quantitative data to back up our smack!
by vin2k on Oct 23, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its blitz, not tmvt, but yes, i will put up a poll, lets see if gints fans will be honest
tho im not sure its fair. there are hordes of giants fans flooding here from various aggregators.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
vin likes my stewardship of the site more.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Oct 23, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think at least all Giants and Steelers fans agree that if both teams had to do it over, no one would have picked Phillip Rivers. LMAO.
by vin2k on Oct 23, 2008 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he belongs in SD where nobody gives a shit
can run his cocky mouth all he wants there
good qb though really.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now see
I can understand hating Rivers!
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 23, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright Blitz
I’ll defend Rivers a little, since I’m sure you’re looking for me to. ;) Even though I wish he wouldn’t run his mouth so much. His stats so far are right in between Eli’s and Ben’s:
Eli: 63 games, 55.4 , 12,774 yards, 6.4 ypa, 85 TDs, 68 Ints, 74.9 QB rating
Ben: 62 games, 63.2 %, 12836 yards, 8.1 ypa, 93 TDs, 57 Ints, 93.0 QB rating
Rivers: 39 games started (43 played in), 61.4, 8385 yards, 7.3 ypa, 60 TDs, 30 Ints, 90.3 QB rating
The only thing he lacks that the others have is a SB ring and the two years worth of starting that he missed sitting behind Drew Brees. Anyway, I won’t say anything else about Rivers, since this is a Eli vs. Ben discussion. Just thought I’d stick up for my Wolfpack brethren a little. :)
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 23, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers
Here is my problem with Rivers, and it has more to do with the level of criticism that Big Ben gets. Everyone talks about how BB just manages the game and had they had to hide him behind a good defense and good running game. I agree to some extent, but when you compare what BB has to work with as opposed to Rivers, Rivers should have been to the SB 2-3 times now. He’s got LT, Antonio Gates, and last time I checked, they had a ton of pro bowlers on the defense. Although this year, they are not as good on D as in previous years. I just don’t get why people talk about how great Rivers is and then say that BB benefits from a good D and running game when the talent around Rivers is even better.
Ok, had to get that off my chest. I don’t like him cause he runs his mouth too.
by vin2k on Oct 23, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a Giants fan
I said last year during the playoffs, the Eli trade was successful as far as I’m concerned, for the sole reason that at least I don’t have to root for Rivers.
by queler on Oct 23, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
I tend to hear the other side more often, but I also don’t have time to go to any site but BTSC and StateFansNation, an NC State site. So, if there are articles about Rivers criticizing him, the NC State crowd defends him, and there tends to be a lot of comparison on this site, because they were all drafted together. So, I hear more criticism of Rivers than anything else.
Rivers was only in his second season as starter last year, so, it would have been extraordinary if he made it to two SBs in his first two years as a starter. I mean, unheard of, never been done before, not even close to being expected kind of extraordinary.
Ok, I guess I did say more about Rivers. :)
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 24, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rivers
is a great qb. im not sure why all the hate. we can take a look at him closer later this year when we play them, but hes done great in his first couple of years.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 25, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess
Whenever a second year starter QB gets a reputation for talking smack without having already won a SB, the rest of the leagues starts to hate him. Apparently it’s ok for a DT, though, since I don’t remember the hate for Warren Sapp. Maybe it’s the difference of talking smack on the field and yelling at a opposing fans on the sidelines/waving at Jay Cutler from the sidelines. The latter is just much more visible.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 25, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Stuff
On Saturday just for fun can we compare Bubby Brister to Jeff Hostetler?
Neil O’Donnell to Kerry Collins?
Looking forward to the game, I think its going to be like two fighters standing in the middle of the ring, pounding on each other.
I expect the whirlpools at both teams facilities will be quite full on Monday.
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 23, 2008 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not
Bradshaw to Simms?
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 23, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As someone who would choose Roethlisberger
let me just defend Eli for a second here. If there’s any fanbase in the NFL that shouldn’t rush to conclusions on a QB, it’s you guys. Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw was AWFUL his first 5 seasons in the NFL. Here are his stats:
59 Games, 48%, 7524 Yards, 6.1 YPA, 48 TD, 81 INT, 53.2 QB Rating
Now, I know the game has changed, guys used to throw more INTs back then, etc., but he was unequivocally one of the worst QBs in the league for 5 years. Then, all of a sudden, he had a great 6th season, and put together a hall of fame career. I’m not saying Eli will ever be better than Big Ben, but he is playing great football right now and there’s no reason why he can’t put up big numbers the rest of his career and make people forget all about his first few years.
One other thing, re: Eli v. Big Ben. Eli didn’t get Plaxico until his 3rd year in the league. His top receiver was Amani Toomer, a good but not great receiver. Big Ben came into the league with Plax as his #2, and Hines Ward as his #1. That’s a nice advantage to have.
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thats why
it took us all of like 2 seconds to say marino..lol…like i said, we dont take bad positions out of pride.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont mean to disengage u
You make good points man, and I hadnt seen those numbers in a while, so didnt mean to shut u up or anything. Eli is experiencing a fairly typical trajectory, its just that he broke out of the mediocre mold at just the right time. And hes carried it over thus far in 08. He’s legit now, no question, though it seems to me that the Giants have not been in many close games this year. Is that true? Id still like to see how he does in some pressure situations.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Close Games
well, the Bengals game was close (OT) and Manning led the Giants on a game-winning drive. The funny thing is that I actually trust Eli MORE in close games than in blowouts. When the Giants get a big lead or go into a big hole, he seems to lose his focus or something, and that’s when the INTs start flying.
Throughout his career he’s actually been a fantastic QB in close and late situations (to steal a baseball phrase). I’m not sure what the stats are, but whenever the Giants run the no-huddle offense in late-in-half situations, they’ll show the numbers on TV, and they’re eye-popping…his QB rating goes up to like 102 or something around there. The Super Bowl last year was a good example of this, but he’s been doing it his whole career. I think part of it is that Eli overthinks things when the game is slowed down, he almost tries to be too much like Peyton, changing the play at the line and all that stuff. But when its the no-huddle, he can’t do that and just lets his talent take over, and he’s fantastic. It’s pretty strange.
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Not sure I would say that Ben had the advantage in WR. Remember, Plexiglass was still a work in progresss when he was here and Hines was always considered a possession receiver. Eli benefited from having a more polished reciever in Plexiglass then when Plex was here.
by vin2k on Oct 23, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you props for mentioning Bradshaw
He’s certainly a guy that would help Eli’s case. With that being said, even with Eli having the best season of his career, by far, he’s still not in Ben’s zip code. This season Ben still has the better completion percentage (63.2 vs. 61.8), better yards per attempt (7.7 vs. 7.3), more TDs and less interceptions (9-3 vs. 8-4) and a better QB rating (98.1 vs. 89.1).
Even with Eli playing out of his mind right now, he’s still not on par with an average Big Ben season.
by cgolden on Oct 23, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like I said
I’d take Big Ben at this point. I think he’s fantastic. But I also think Eli is very, very good, with a chance to be great. I just don’t want to see him get short changed – his numbers aren’t the best, but he’s a much better QB than Tim Couch! (though to be fair, I don’t think Couch was quite as bad as people think. If he was drafted by the Eagles or the Vikings, he’d probably still be in the league)
One other thing for Eli: I think he will last a bit longer than Ben. He doesn’t take as many hits, and the Manning boys are a lot tougher than people give them credit for. So lets have this conversation again in 10 years, ok :)
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and btw
I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE if Eli finished with more SBs than Peyton. For many reasons, I have some respect for Eli. I cant stand Peyton. At all.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plax
Plax left the Steelers after 2004. And, based on his disappearing act against the Pats* in the AFCC game, I wasn’t too disappointed that he left. But, that means Ben only had him in year one, while Eli’s had him ever since.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 23, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a fun debate
but it’s pretty lopsided. If Eli’s 2.1 int rate is for real, then having the conversation becomes a bit more debatable.
I think the offensive line play needs to be in the discussion though, as a shortterm plus for ben and a longterm plus for eli.
In the shortterm, that Ben is sacked and pressured far more often than eli and yet puts up better completition percentages, and lower ints is…amazing. It’s one thing to have time in the pocket and throw textbook passes, because given enough time, even mediocre qbs will look amazing. But when you are getting hurried and still making plays, it’s a whole different level. In the superbowl, the play where eli escapes a sack and makes a crazy throw, that seems to happen to ben every game. Unbelieable.
In the longterm, though, taking 40+ sack seasons will destroy qbs, it’s like the 400 carry stat for runningbacks. Guys like Snee make Manning look good now, keep him healthy and will pay off big late in his football career.
by vherub on Oct 23, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha, this poll is so incredibly dumb blitz. I absolutely know that there is no one here that would ever take Eli. I have never, ever, ever run into a steelers fan that would take him over Ben. Seriously.
You giants fans are poor sports! :)
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
karmas a bitch man. they will pay for being dishonest.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and as i mentioned
there are gobs of giants fans here from news feeds sticking up for their homeboy.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which they will pay for if they knowingly betrayed their true thoughts :)
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Ben
just for the record
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I can’t speak for giants fans. Maybe 90% of them would take Eli over Ben, I don’t know giants fans that well.
I do know steelers fans, and steelers fans would take Ben over Eli 99.99% of the time. That’s a fact.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you can relabel Eli to “Homoerotic experiences”.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a better debate
would be: Polamalu or Tuck? We’re traditional, smashmouth franchises. Why are we debating the pansiest position in the league (well, besides kickers)?
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
seriously..why we debating the skirt wearers..though that doesnt really apply to Ben..def to the Manning brothers though.
but hey, we’re ahead of the curve and certainly our friendly debate will be better than whatever al michales and john madden have to say.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remind me to have the game on mute.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't Madden taking this one off
or was that this past Sunday’s game? I can’t even remember who played last Sunday night, so I may not have watched it
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt watch either
think it was mediocre LPGA matchuip. Seahawks Bucs maybe???
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I could not watch it. Sticking through WAS vs. CLE was more than enough, and I could only manage that because it was divisional.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ps
our kicker is one of the gnarliest dudes in not just football, but the entire planet.
recognize.
google jeff reed and explore. you will be shocked/disgusted/repulsed/amused.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, well
our kicker looks like Darth Vader at the end of Return of the Jedi. Google John Carney and be amazed.
Plus, our punter and kicker have a combined age of like 88 and are still both awesome.
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah well our punter is totally awesome…er, on IR.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
i thought lawrence tynes (sp?) had a brother in jail or something. what happened to him. why in gods name do u have john carney??? maybe in a dome id take him, but sheesh, not on the eastern seaboard come winter. that could be costly later in the year. believe me, i know all about carney. followed drew brees since we were kids together and he cost them some games. hope that doesnt happen to u cus seems to me uve had some decent kickers
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tynes
got hurt in the preseason, so they signed Carney to replace him for a few weeks. Unfortunately for Tynes, Carney’s been perfect this season (except for a blocked kick last week that was absolutely not his fault, a 49er literally jumped straight over the center). 2 weeks ago Tynes said to the media “I’m ready and I’ll be kicking this week” (or something to that effect), and Coughlin basically said “no you won’t, sit your ass down and shut up.” So now we have 2 kickers. A lot of us at BBV actually want to stick with Carney, b/c he’s way more accurate than Tynes, who is prone to missing extra points from time to time, not to mention fairly easy field goals.
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt Polamalu...
im a die hard steelers fan, and was also born on Troy’s birthday…not same year though
by PsycoSalameh on Oct 23, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have never seen such civil discourse on a thread this long involving other fans.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Civil
Steel, I have gone to great lengths to try and ensure that when my guys venture to other sites that we maintain some decorum. We are going to disagree, but we don’t have to scream at each other and get personal. It’s all good.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Civil
Hey I was just looking at your site and noticed Sevens, (7’s) comments. Please don’t think that most Steelers fans are that irrational, rude and demeaning. I haven’t read something that uncalled for and out of line on SBN for quite some time.
by cgolden on Oct 23, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NP
We have figured out what that guy is, and that he isn’t representative of your community.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 23, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different Types of Fans
Its really interesting, I’ve always had a hard time explaining to many of my friends and my girlfriend why I LOVE football. Although I served in the army (Israeli Army) and understand the need for honorable and dedicated people to serve their country (I am very proud of TMVT – for what he’s just accomplished) – at heart I believe very much in non-violence – as it was taught by Ghandi. I think that human beings are too quick to anger, violence and war and too slow to compassion.
And yet, I love watching Troy, Siverback and Fines Ward play the game. I love the integrity, passion and sportsmanship they bring to it. These guys are not looking to hurt anyone (I really do believe that’s true of all of them, even Silverback) they are looking to play a tough game with excellence.
I also love how passionate and for the most part nice the fan base is for the Steelers. I’ve watched in bars all over the country and for the most part met decent, kind caring folks, who really watched the game. I find SBN to be a treat because people are not only passionate, but thoughtful, intelligent and curious.
Of course, like any where else in life there are people, who due to some lack of security, self-worth, fear or something feel the need to be assholes.
Se7ens rant against Hispanic people on the Giants site comes to mind. It reminds me of many people I met who thought their was something funny about saying stupid racist shit. I am really not sure what its about (ignorance, fear?) but I think it has something to do with a really stupid and cowardly way to try to prove your manhood.
Which brings me back to football. Football played the right way is a chance for people to really test their mettle, to step up and be men. Its a brutal game, and their are many other ways to step up and be a man in this world that don’t involve wearing a helmet and shoulder pads, but no one can deny that the game is, week in week out a test of character and will.
For this reason I loved reading RickVA’s brilliant piece about his time on the Temple team. You could tell how meaningful it was for him to struggle to make that team and prove himself in the face of all of the obstacles.
So yes there are fans out there who cheer wildly when an opposing player gets hurt, talk stupid meaningless and angry shit, get into drunk fights etc. There are also players out there who take cheap shots, have enormous egos and probably wouldn’t blink about doing violence to other people outside of the game.
But for the most part they do not define the game. For the most part the game is defined by sportsmanship, teamwork and character.
I also think we are very lucky to have a team whose ownership, coaches and most of its players think that character is the first and most important ingredient in building a team. I would say that is also true of the Giants.
by SteelerBuddha on Oct 23, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Agree wholeheartedly- I am aware that my peaceful demeanor is noticeably absent when Pittsburgh is playing though. :)
by SteelersVT on Oct 23, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yes – I am not much for equanimity when it comes to the Steelers.
BTW – my brother is a Steeler fan up in vermont – although he doesn’t have a TV so I think he has more or less given up on it…
by SteelerBuddha on Oct 23, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice buddha
I started a post on this yesterday to rip Ray Lewis for crossing the line for celebrating another competitors injury. Can try to play violently and knock poeple out without being a cheap shot artist or to revel afterwards.
by Blitzburgh on Oct 23, 2008 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why i choose ben
while you really can’t go wrong with either of these guys, i think that ben not only fits the system here in pittsburgh, but he fits the mentality of the organization AND the entire city. pittsburgh was built on the blood, sweat and tears of steel workers and coal miners. there’s no glam to this city. and the identity of the steelers was formed from the identity of the city…tough as hell. i like ben over eli (to play for the steelers) because he epitomizes exactly what this city and organization respects and expects…toughness and loyalty. i can’t recall ever seeing ben scramble and slide to avoid a hit…i’ve seen him drop his shoulder into a defender, or dive for the extra yard quite a few times, but i can’t remember him sliding. steelers fans respect that…we hold our breath every time, but we respect that.
as far as talent goes, i don’t think either of these guys will improve much more physically. at 26 years old, they’re both just about the prime of their physical careers. however, their future success will depend on mental development. while manning played other-worldly in the postseason last year, i still don’t think he has the mental toughness that ben has. i still see eli making careless/reckless throws that even his teammates question. i mean the browns picked him 3 times!!!
all in all, you can’t go wrong with either. they’re both at the top of the charts in this league with exponentially bright futures. hopefully ben can stay healthy, and develop into more a game controlling, play calling type of qb. and hopefully eli, can come fully out of peyton’s shadow because as blitz said, that’s a HUGE shadow to play in.
good post.
by NoCal-SteelCity on Oct 23, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eli not mentally tough?
Ben has been good…very good longer than Eli has. As far as mental toughness goes Eli was about to be tar and feathered – run out of town (along with Coach Coughlin) at the end of 2007. If it weren’t for the defense, the running game and the regular season finally (New England) he would not been thrust onto the playoff stage, where everyone expected him to fail. Without his quite self confidence and extreme mental toughness he would have cracked. I know I thought he would.
Here’s to a great game on Sunday.
by filmore on Oct 23, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't say that he's not mentally tough
i just said that i think ben is more mentally tough than eli. you’re right, eli overcame the boos, the coaching change scenario, and public ridicule…but ben overcame a life threatening injury, and CHOSE to not sit out when EVERYONE recommended it. he’s a warrior who knows what it takes to win in any situation regardless of physical health, or the team surrounding him. you can’t teach that. not a knock on eli at all, i’m just saying that i feel ben is further along at this point in there careers.
by NoCal-SteelCity on Oct 23, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a Lark
One thing that’s interesting is if we were to take the poll a year ago today. Most Gints fans would jump ship on Eli. Had he not put together a miracle post-season which he’s followed up with a good regular season so far, he’d have been buried next to Coughlin. Even after ben’s train wreck year we’d seen what we could have in him and gave him a pass. Or at least most of us did. I feel like basing an argument on Eli based on a sample size of a few games is a bit difficult to justify.
The point about Bradshaw is great, but even at his best he was still not as good as many other QBs. He did have a great winning spirit though and Eli seems to be producing that. But since Ben also has that attitude it’s a wash.
by Chicago Steeler on Oct 23, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Need to revisit this a few years down the road
I am very curious how the next few years will go for Eli. With Ben, I fully expect better production every year, especially if we can address our O line problems. I thought the Giants had a much better O-line than Pittsburgh has had, at least in the past few years. Eli just didn’t have any bigname receivers to grow with. It will be a great moment if/when Eli eclipses his older brother for once and all.
by SteelersVT on Oct 23, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
More thoughts
I also want to add that I think Ben has a bigger chance of getting ring #2 this year than ever. The whole league is in shambles and the cream is rising to the top.
I feel like Eli puts up more meltdowns than Ben. The Brownies game is a prime example. Here you are, in your 4/5th year, and you still are having games where you resemble an infant. Ben doesnt do that anymore. He didnt last year. He has become a trustworthy comeback king instead. I honestly would put faith in him within a 2 score game almost every night. We nearly got jacksonville last year without FWP, and we had the refs against us too!
Eli to me seems to get to where as soon as a real tough opponent hits, he either shines or falls, hard. Ben never does the latter.
by Mechem on Oct 23, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ben looked really, really bad / rattled / sad during the eagles game. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him look worse on / off the field, even in 2006.
by steelguy99 on Oct 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
What I am referring to though is the refusal to crumble. The man was still 13/25 and given that he was sacked a million times, and had basically one arm, he stayed in and played a much better game than Eli would have. I mean lets be honest here, Eli throws 3 picks against the browns. Ben still kept us in that game. We were within 1 score the whole time.
And I still scratch the 06 campaign off the books in my mind. The man earns a MVP vote for playing after he killed that car.
by Mechem on Oct 23, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad Maafala made this point in the first response, but I think it is worth repeating
The Giants offensive line last season and this season is better than any Steelers offensive line since 2004. As Maafala correctly pointed out, our large number of yards rushing were more the result of high attempts than high effectiveness. In particular, we have struggled to run against good defenses from 2005-present. Therefore, Ben really has been responsible for most of our offensive production against good teams since 2004 – even during the 2005 playoffs – where we got big leads by throwing the ball early. From 2006 – present, our pass protection has been awful and Ben still has been excellent.
The only argument that can be made in Eli’s favor (from my perspective) is that he played better in the Super Bowl. Obviously, I cannot dispute the fact that Eli performed better in the Super Bowl; however, the Super Bowl is ONE game – and I don’t see how Ben’s superiority in every other gauge of performance should be superceded by Eli’s performance in the Super Bowl.
by houksyndrome on Oct 23, 2008 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True point
This is a valid point. Eli did perform well. What I think is worth noting though is how well Ben was on 3rd down. I believe he converted 8 or 9 third downs. And lets not forget like a 3rd and 27 which might as well have been a mile. He came through in the clutch, even in the midst of a bad game overall.
by Mechem on Oct 23, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like Eli but...
i would take Big Ben over Eli any day. i have many reasons which im not going to get into, but one of them is Big Ben does better under pressure, is (in my opinion) a better leader, and just never gives up. thats what i want in a quarterback
by PsycoSalameh on Oct 23, 2008 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont believe Eli's better than Phillip Rivers, let alone Big Ben.
I personally think it’s funny that this even a discussion considering the Giants fans were just about to run Eli out of town last year before the team turned it around after the first half of the season, peaked at the right time, and beat the Patriots behind the outstanding play of their offensive and defensive lines. Everyone wants to give all the credit to Eli, but the defense was the main reason the Giants have had their newfound success.
I also think it’s ridiculous that people try to factor in the pressures of playing in NY versus any other sports city. It’s a tremendous amount of pressure to line up at quarterback irregardless of what team you play for period. Pittsburgh fans are some the most football savy fans in the nation, and it’s not like our players get a free pass. Safe to say Eli would have been blasted for his laissez faire attitude, and "aw shucks" body language in the Burgh. If a player, especially a quarterback is going to put too much stock into what the media and fans have to say, then they’re in the wrong sports, and position, as an athlete. A quarterback, as the most visible position on the team, prepares one for the constant scrutiny that comes along with territory. So I think the point of the NY media scrutiny is irrelevant.
Last but not least, how can one say that Ben has reached his ceiling and is as good as he’s gonna get? He’s only managed to get better every year since he stormed on the scene and took the Steelers to the AFC championship game as a rookie. Every since Bettis retired and we went away from our power running game, he has been asked to do more and more as a quarterback. He’s the heart and soul of our offense and we only go as far with that side of the football as he takes us. I think the sky’s the limit with the kid, and he will only get better as he matures. Not only are Ben’s stats better, but he wins out in my book on the intangibles. He’s been more poised, tougher, and a leader since day one. Just because Eli is just catching up to Ben in those regards doesnt mean the ceiling is higher for him.
Ben hands down is the toast of his draft class. Don’t get me wrong, I like Eli, respect his game and he is definitely a good QB, but he’s no Ben
by Steeler Ric on Oct 23, 2008 7:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about rivers
Where does Phil rivers fit into this competition? Lets not forget, he was drafted too. Im curious what people think about him. Will he get his own ring?
I think not. I think the LT era is already hurting, and I think without him PR has no chance of going far. Plus the D sucks.
by Mechem on Oct 23, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mechem,
U think Eli is better than Rivers? I think so…just my personal opinion.
by Steeler Ric on Oct 23, 2008 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eli vs. Ben
To me both QBs perform at a t high level. For many who have posted it comes down to stats, or intangibles, or Super Bowl performances. For me its very simple if we swapped QBs and had the QBs run the opposing offenses, considering the strengths and weaknesses of both offenses who would maintain or surpass their current production and level of play? I’m from Pittsburgh but have lived in NY for 5 years so I see a lot of both QBs, every Stiller game and a considerble amount of Giant games, and to me its not even close. Eli would not maintain his level of play if he were on the Steelers. Ben’s ability to compensate for O-line breakdowns and still make plays puts him over the top in my opinion. I don’t believe Eli would be able to overcome a less than stellar line and handle the defensive pressure that Ben consistently recieves.
Some will point to the incredible play in the SB where Eli got the ball to David Tyree. But where Eli has that one play Ben seems to make this type of play almost weekly.
Bottom line – flip the teams and which QB still maintains their level of success? I say Ben. And this is not taking anything away from Eli and the way he has matured as a QB. Again I live in NY and I’ve seen what he’sendured and how he has responded but I believe Ben is the better of the two.
by Portfire on Oct 23, 2008 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Behind the Steel Curtain
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
