FWP Not Happy
by steelerinchicago on Dec 10, 2008 4:50 PM EST
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PrintFrom Rotoworld:
Willie Parker says he's frustrated with his usage and believes Pittsburgh has gotten away from "Steelers football" of old.
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Huh? Parker hasn't looked all that good since coming back from injury and Moore has looked better anyway. He should keep quiet and be happy he is seeing the ball at all!
Let's get home field throughout!!!! Go Steelers!!!
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I could see his point
if he was running the ball well. However, this hasn’t been the case AT ALL as of late. Why are we going to keep repeating something that isn’t working? Hey Parker, start getting some decent yards per carry and I’m sure you will start seeing the ball more. Until then, I too vote to keep it in Moore’s hands!!!
Yeah
Willie just isn’t the same this year. I’m sure he feels fresh and all, but I don’t think he’s back to form at all. I can’t tell if its more on him or the O-line. But when Mwelde is in there he does a damn good job. I think FWP is feeling the heat and doesn’t like it.
Personally I think they have the rotation backward. Start Moore and let him do his thing and loosen up the D, then pop Willie in the second half and let him rip up the D. That’s how the Pats game went and it worked well. Its crazy how more just pops those 10-20 yarders when everything looks dead.
Its got to be tough to be a RB right now, the market is flooded and everyone is hopping on the dual RB role.
by Silverback92 on Dec 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Willie
in addition to not being happy, has not been very healthy and has not been very effective. But I applaud his bravado and desire.
Parker, Moore, and Russell are providing a half-decent 3-headed running attack. I’d like to see the ground game produce more yards, but they just haven’t found their legs yet. Hopefully the three of them will increase their production as the weather gets nastier, but if the run game continues to falter from time to time it’s very, very nice to have Ward, Holmes, Washington, and Miller picking up those all-important yards.
A balanced attack. That’s why you have some carbohydrates and veggies on the plate next to your steak.
What's going on here...
FWP talking smack? Has this ever happened before?
Seems like he’s a hardworking guy that usually keeps his mouth shut, not one to stir the pot. Has Arians lost this group to the extent where a normally upstanding guy like Parker would start bitching? Or is Parker just starting to slip, and this is his way to take attention off of that?
“I definitely think about it all the time — why can’t we run the ball? What’s the difference between now and two years ago? So it’s definitely being a concern, me being a running back.”
Looks like he’s directly pointing at Arians there but maybe Tomlin too. I guess I’m kinda surprised by this.
by BallsofSteel on Dec 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t think this of talking smack. I mean it is uncharacteristic of a steeler making the news if its not joey but he didn’t say anything that was bad. Also if you ONLY look at what he says in quotations as those are his actual words, he doesn’t say anything thats not true, he only states his opinion and he never said he was unhappy about the offense. Just saying its not steeler football and it isn’t. There is a difference between that and what TO says about not getting the ball, that is talking smack.
He probably should not have said it to the media and instead to BA though. but maybe he has tried that already. I think he is 100% right about the FB. Look at the goal line run on 4th down against Dallas. we bring the tight end in motion so he is right in front of the hole we are trying to run into and it gives the defense a heads up to what we are going to do. Whatever happened to lining up with two backs and giving it to the up back so he hits the pile earlier and those blitzers coming from the outside can’t get to him? That’s the solution to the inability to run for short yardage situation
We need a FB, thats why we have not been as successful running the ball, even Jerome Bettis had a fullback.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
he better have talked to BA first, or tomlin, etc
Anyone that goes right to the press before talking to the team isn’t someone I want on my team. But I am sure he went to BA or Tomlin, voiced his concerns, and probably was told the same thing we would have told him- injuries and what not have derailed his running game somewhat. If he was putting in 100 YPG or something, and then was pulled, I could understand, but until then, put up or shut up. :)
well
he isn’t really causing a problem so what is wrong with him voicing his opinion? its not like he made a TO comment, i think you guys are blowing it out of proportion. Give him a break he has been injured and has been playing against top notch competition and he really isn’t whining about getting the ball, just saying we aren’t running it how we used to. As in saying we the steelers need to figure out how to run the ball effectively again.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
i think...
what FWP means is that we are passing more in the situations where you would expect the Pittsburgh Steelers to flat out run it. i see his point. as you said, we are ninth in rushing attempts. normally you would expect the Steelers to be in at least top 5, if not first. Fahey said that we have a “balanced attack”. which right now is true. But the real Pittsburgh Steelers that i know runs the ball a lot more than they pass it. im not criticizing the offense, although i dont like Bruce Arians in the position of offensive coordinator. the main point is that Willie had a reason for what he said, and its not bad one. and Fahey is completely right about our running backs needing to produce more yards, not saying that theyre not producing any.
The grass may be greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed
FWP
FWP played well in the 2nd half against the Pats. I dont think his injuries kept him from being useful against Dallas. Rather I think Dallas played good D.
However to an extent he is right. BA is not using the run game properly. He is not being inventive or creative.
And I personally believe if he would STICK with the run game a little more, and would vary it up a little (i.e some split backs, a draw or two, screens) Then we would be more effective.
FWP has a point
How come when BB gets hurt, he stays in the game and we continue with him even though he is throwing picks. When Byron came in he did 10 times better the job BB did but yet Big Ben remained playing injured the next game?
Some of the situation is alike with FWP. He was hurt and Moore got the ball and did an okay job but remember, when FWP is healthy he usually gets 100 yards with 20 carries. Dallas did do a great job stopping the run but i also think that’s because our poor run-play calling also but most of the credit goes to Dallas.
I think we should keep feeding the ball to Willie and Moore but not because of keeping the Steeler Mentality. We need to utilize both of them in ways that they will be successful and we should still pass more against Baltimore because they may not be expecting it out of the gates.
Actually now that i think about what he said, he didn’t say anything about him not getting the ball enough, just that he doesn’t think we should give up on the run. I didn’t see the exact quote he said when he is like i am not getting the ball enough.
He needs to learn how to see those cutback lanes instead of running into the back of a lineman or into a tackler. This O-Line is not going to create gaping holes to run through so i think if he gets a hand off up the middle he needs to bounce it outside if available. Or change the playcalling and have willie run draw plays so he can find the hole without running first and just hit it with his speed.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 PM EST reply actions
FWP
I understand FWP frustration and share it. I think the big point is that we have given up on what used to be a pretty valuable part of our offense that worked well for many years, the blocking fullback and the power run. Last year when we were passing well it was hard to complain. This year when the offense is stuck in second gear, its easier to speak up.
I got curious about what then numbers of our running game over time. Specifically how committed where we to the run. I think its helpful for thinking about how the team
Lets look at the numbers – Off rank – is the total rank for the offense in yards.
Year Att (rank) YRds (rnk) Y/A (Rank) Tot Off Rank Record
2000 527 (2nd) 2084 (4th) 4.3 y/a (11th) Off rank (18) Record 9-7
2001 580 (1st) 2774 (1st) 4.8 y/a (2nd) Off rank (3) Record 13-3
2002 512 (2nd) 2120 (9th) 4.1y/a (20th) Off rank (5) Record 10-5-1
2003 446 (17th) 1488 (31st) 3.3y/a (31st) Off rank (22) Record 6-10
2004: 618 (1st) 2464 (2nd) 4.0y/a (20th) Off rank (16) Record 15-1
2005 529 (1st) 2223 (5th) 4.0y/a (14th) Off rank ( 15) Record 10-6
2006 469 (14th) 1992 (10th) 4.2y/a (12th) Off rank (7) Record 8-8
2007 511 (3rd) 2168 (3rd) 4.2 y/a (9th) Off rank (17) Record 10-6
2008 373 (9th) 1350 (23rd) 3.6 y/a (29th) Off rank (26) Record 10-3
My conclusion looking at the numbers is that there are very few years where we ran the ball effectively in the sense that we lead the y/a. In fact the only time since 2000 when we were among the top 5 in the league was in 2001 – with 4.8. What we have done with some regularity is committed to the run. From 2000-2005 we were either first or second in rushing attempts every single year, save 1 – 2003 our Tommy Gun 6-10 year. That year we ranked 17th. What’s interesting is that we slipped from our commitment in the year following our superbowl run finishing 14th in the league in rushing attempts 469. But during our first year of Arians/Tomlin we came back up to Cohwer levels with 511att.
Even this year we are 9th in the league in rushing attmepts. We have run the ball almost the same amount as the Washington Redskins. What we haven’t done is produced. Our rushing attack is gaining a paltry 3.6 yards per attempt – 29th in the league.
Anyway curious to hear your thoughts on how to analyze these numbers.
BTW
can somebody tell me how to do graphs- I spent all this time fixing the columns so the aligned and they just came out looking like mush.
by SteelerBuddha on Dec 10, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
only 1 losing season in the past 10 years …i never stopped to realize that..you’ve seen a ton of good football.
Thats because
We’ll shit on the coach’s lawn if he loses.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
And that Losing season was the best one ever
Because it Brought Mr Roethlisberger down from Heaven to the Steelers Organization.
Look at the people on the Line
We had a better offensive line, coaching, and execution. I still can’t believe we gave Simmons 1/2 of Faneca’s money. We overpaid for Marvel who is robbing us without a mask or gun. Willie needs to look squarely at his linemen and offensive line coach.
Plus he needs to do a better job of hitting the hole or looking quickly for the cutback lane.
FWP is right
it is not in this post but in the link for the post-gazette but he is definately trying to point out that BA SUCKS.
that is what i think this whole comment is about. He wants people to figure out that the team hates BA and wants to fire him. Whats the difference between now and two years ago? BA wasn’t the o-coordinator, sure tomlin wasn’t here but he is complaining about running the ball not the team and thats BA’s job. Steeler mentality is supposed to run the ball and grind it out. Line up with a big FB and run the ball but we DON’T EVEN HAVE A FULL BACK! what the HELL
BA gave away kreider because we don’t need a FB. carey davis was primarily a RB but is now like a hybrid of RB/FB. we need a straight up FB, you can see how terrible our short yardage running is. Since we do not have any overpowering backs we need a FB to get that one guy who gets through the line and then our RB’s have a fighting chance.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 8:48 PM EST reply actions
and i believe LT lost lorenzo neal like an all pro FB and look at LT now, he is not getting nearly the numbers he had.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lack of a FB
BA killed our run game when he sold off the fullback position. We are far more successful having a FB and I am a big believer in the use of one.
Here is the simple thing. Teams tend to know where we want to run. Problem is, we pretty much just leave it up to FWP to make a play. One man alone cannot do this.
This is why a lead blocker is crucial. Unlike a pass, its pretty easy to tell which direction the play is heading, because the runner has to start moving in that direction.
With a FB, you basically are saying “obviously you know where we are going, but we are going to pave the way and you cant stop us”
Without a FB its like, Have a nice day and go F yourself FWP.
Am I confused
But wasn’t FWP leading the league in rushing last year until he got hurt at the very end of the year? Without a fullback? I’m serious. Am I confused?
yeah
but we had a softer schedule and didn’t face the amount of strong defenses as we did this year. i believe we at least still used carey davis as a lead blocker. Now he doesn’t really do that anymore.
A lead blocker can also be used as a decoy to make the defense to go one way, and thats all FWP needs, is one misstep by the defense going the other way and then he can get like 10 extra yards.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 10, 2008 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
ok
I really don’t think we used Davis as a lead blocker all THAT much more last year.
So perhaps the drop off in running stats has a lot more to do with the tougher schedule and all the changes on the offensive line. I mean we had some pretty good running stats with a pretty healthy Marvel, Simmons, and Faneca. Once Marvel started having the serious back problems a little later in the year, as well as FWP getting hurt, seems to be where some of the drop off happened. And FWP hasn’t been all that healthy this year.
So perhaps there are a lot more factors at play here rather than simply Arians not using a leading fullback being the f***ing point. (for all you Deadwood fans)
U R right on point
Stop the BS Willie, we ran the rock with 2 tight ends. No Matt Spaeth get’s beat too easily by Outside LB’s. Put him on Scott and Miller on Suggs. This also spreads out the ratbirds 4 -3 and allows u to get a block on Ray, he hates linemen blocking him. So run right at Ray. 2 TE’s and 2 WR’s is the way to go and run away from Ngata
Whens the last time we ran a pitch?
Let Parker sweep it outside…
I’m a big fan of pitching it outside, the RB can catch it in full stride and with Willie that means a lot of speed. Chances are he doesn’t get caught in a one-in-one situation in the backfield which he is typically having to deal with.
PITCH THE BALL BA!
We tried multiple pitches against Dallas
and they usually blew up when their OLBs got up field and strung the play out. Many lost yardage. I haven’t watched film to prove it, but I suspect part of the failure is that we try to block LBs with WRs when we run this play out of bunch formations – as opposed to TE/FB when we used to run it out of the I.
by houksyndrome on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
are you sure they were pitches?
I can’t remember the last time I saw Ben toss the ball into the backfield……he usually hands it off and we do an off tackle run.
I’d like to see some pitch plays run out of the Power I, then again, I’d just like to see more of the Power I.
agreed
The Baltimore d has great speed, so pitching the ball would be ineffective in a 3 or 4 WR set. If we ran the power I, it could clog up the line of scrimmage and give FWP some space to the outside. When healthy, he can beat any OLB to the outside edge. Also, do you think there would be any we could use Mchugh at FB to block? I think he would be much more effective at the point of attack than Carey Davis, especially when blocking someone like Ray Lewis.
WE DEY!!!!!
We do use Mchugh to block, but not exclusively. He seems to split time with davis and is used more on the goal line. I really don’t see why davis plays at all. McHugh is a mountain of a man and knows it. Davis plays coy and just clogs the running lanes. Further, McHugh has the potential to put a big block and then roll out as a receiver on certain plays. He catches as awkwardly as the rest of our TEs, but he can catch. So can davis for that matter, but then he takes a knee.
Matt Ryan
We need to do what he did. you see how he faked the pitch by tossing the ball in the air towards the running back but then getting the ball himself while it was still in the air to completely catch the defense off guard and throwing a strike for a td? it was a thing of beauty.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 11, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
U R correct - However
Carey just runs into the hole and actually blocks no one. McHugh however, misses blocks, like the LB blitzing on the 4th down stop by Dallas. Dude, get your head up.
my biggest question is
do you guys think this will make BA change it up a little bit more?
I think it might actually. Maybe not this B-more game because of their D but maybe BA took a hint for games later on.
Ben wanted a tall receiver and his wish was granted. Willie is no Ben as far as importance of his word but still, if a player is unhappy the Steelers typically give them what they want (with some exceptions obviously)
something to consider
Has anybody ever considered that perhaps Arians is simply playing the hand he has been dealt?
Look, it’s easy to sit here and say “let’s play Steeler football, let’s run the ball down their throats”. But those teams had solid offensive lines coached by a good offensive line coach. I am of the opinion that the Steelers offensive line coach is horrible, and has no ability to coach up a bunch of offfensive lineman that have been drafted in the fourth round or later, or are free agents, and who are playing together for the first time this year.
Put a fullback there, bring in two tight ends, do whatever the hell you want, but if the line can’t get you holes, then nobody is going anywhere. Not FWP, not Brandon Jacobs, not Jerome Bettis.
So perhaps Arians recognizes this, and he is trying to spread people out, counting on the clear talent that the Steelers have in the skill positions to be able to beat their defenders before the lineman and blitzers blow past the clearly inferior Steeler interior lineman and crush the quarterback.
And Ben R, still not yet able to adjust to having weak offensive lineman, has simply not yet learned to get rid of the ball quickly enough to compensate for the lesser protection than what he received his first few years.
I actually do believe the Steelers line can be pretty good if they got coached up, and also some of them just got more experienced, and they all had some time to play together But right now, that line is just really weak,, even though it probably has improved some since earlier in the year, and all the hoping and cheering we do still isn’t going to blow open holes just because that’s “Steeler football”.
I’d like to see us pull guards a lot more. Both Kemo and Stapler seem to be able to do it fairly well. You don’t need a hole as much when you wave a guy into the backfield and block two to the outside with Kemo/McHugh and then try and bounce it outside. Also, while Kemo isn’t the greatest guard, he can blow people up when he gets a head full of steam (if he doesn’t whiff, big IF I know) and create some huge holes.
I agree with you in principle that the talent just isn’t there to do what “we want to do”. The coaches need to find the problem and if it is not correctable, which in this case it is not, find a way around it. When the steelers ran into protection and passing issues many weeks ago, they switched to a short passing game.
Our short passing game is not very good now, and when we switched to it it was a lot worse. The alternatives were to throw longer balls where ben gets killed. I’m certainly not convinced that the current passing solution actually solves anything, but it is at least a valiant attempt.
The same thing needs to be done for the running game. You pointed out elsewhere that FWP gained a ton of yards last year without a FB. I would agree. Unfortunately for us, that isn’t working this year. The steelers need another answer, and they need to try a lot of things until that answer develops. All I see is the steelers trying the same thing over and over and expecting it to work. They need to try the I-, more FB handoffs, more misdirection, more pitches, the delayed handoff, etc. They just need an answer, I don’t know what it is, but to me it sure as hell seems like they aren’t trying to find it.
To butcher a quote, “insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Lets mix it up and try something else. What are we worried about? Getting stuffed on a run?
First time I agree with you since you showed up
Honestly this makes sense.
Basically the line controls all matters. The RB does not make all the difference. People calling for FWP to leave are way off. You have to work with what you got.
Consider Denver. How is it that every other week they have a new guy at RB, and he does well? Its the scheme. It works. Because the personnel they have make it work.
Problem is, our Scheme doesnt work with who we have. I kinda doubt ANY scheme will work with our O-line. But we gotta be able to come up with something.
It's not scheme - it's line play
Come on 4th and goal and fat boy Colon falls allowing the blitzing Dallas LB to shoot right past him. McHugh had a play side block and Russell would have walked in the end zone. My concern where the 3 running plays and actually throwing the ball to 5’6" Carey Davis. Heath was wide open.
Ben makes up his mind who to throw it to, before he leaves the huddle.
Yeah
That play was designed for Davis though and ben had pressure on him.
And when I say scheme I include the lineman because they are the mess in this situation. I hate Colon the most out of them all. He just seems to put no real effort in and he makes so many mistakes.
How can a guy not know how to be on the LOS. Twice this year he’s done that. Like if he cant even line up right what does that tell you?
Nope
The hand BA was dealt included Dan Kreider, a great blocking fullback, who they let go. Besides, when you have a bad offensive line, a fullback makes more sense. The idea of running out of the two tight end formation is that you spread the defense more and create more holes. But this requires the lineman holding some blocks at the point of attack.
With a fullback, you get an extra blocker at the point of attack (assuming the fullback leads). This is perfect when your line sucks: you don’t have to rely on Willie Colon to make a chip and then block a linebacker one on one. Willie can fall flat on his face and you have another blocker (FB) to clean up the line’s mistakes.
In fact, we may be thinking about this entirely the wrong way. I mean, can our line really be that much worse after losing one aging guard, even if he was really good? Maybe our I formation schemes are what made the lines of the past look so good while this singleback crap is doing the opposite.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 11, 2008 9:00 AM EST reply actions
Willie agrees
Here’s some more of that quote that was not pasted above:
"We get into two tights now. It’s like without a fullback, [defenses] definitely know what’s coming and they know where it’s going. I don’t know what it is but it’s not being effective.
So FWP isn’t complaining about not getting the ball, he’s complaining about the scheme. I think he’s ABSOLUTELY right, but he probably shouldn’t air it in public during a playoff run.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 11, 2008 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Nope
Willie was leading the league in rushing with 2 TE’s. Stop the foolishness
Yards per carry
YPC with a fullback (04-06): 5.8, 4.7, 4.4
YPC without (07-08): 4.1, 3.9
And Willie acutally had the most carries of his career in 2007, with a fullback, and not only ran for more YPC but stayed healthy. Leading the league in rushing doesn’t mean he’s helping the team, it means he’s running the rock a lot.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 11, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hi five Carl
Bout time somebody said that. Leading the league in rushing is NOT necessarily the game winning stat. When was the last league leading rusher the SB winner? Closest was Shaun Alexander even showing up to the SB in XL, but he still got beat.
The YPC matters more to me. Looking back to 04 we were unstoppable on the ground and 05 also was pretty good.
Again, 06 was an aberration but yet we still had 4.4
100 % agreed
with you worldtrip…you said what I have said all year…bringing back Bettis in his heyday or having Brandon Jacobs, or having Kreider back, would make no difference…none…it’s all the OLine.
I think BA is trying to do the best he can with what he’s got.
I am hopeful the OLine can do just enough this year to keep us in every game down the stretch and into the playoffs.
However, as I said on another post, I feel the key this week and against other really tough defenses (Titans), is the passing game. Some key points for this week:
1. Use the pass to set up the run (much like we did on our last SB run)
2. Use the no-huddle to establish tempo and rhythm
3. Pass the majority of first downs (80% of the time)
4. MM in the slot and on check downs will be key
5. Early in the game, take your shots deep, especially on the outside, max protect
6. Run from the spread, create natural running lanes via alignment…draws
7. Roll Ben, on occasion, out of the pocket…move the pocket
8. Stay aggressive
9. Be patient…they will make their share of plays…hang in there
I only care about “W’s”…I don’t care about some emotionally attachment to “Steeler Football”. The question is how do we win now? How do we try to win the SB now? What is the make-up of our 2008/9 offense that gives us the best chance to put points on the board and let our great defense do what they do?
Maybe next year we can go back to be a power running, “I” formation team…that would be fine with me if that’s the way our personel develops and it gives us the best chance next year.
But, for this year, we are who we are. Imo, if we approach the Ravens game and our playoff run, with the above points offensively, we may be able to do just enough to get us where we want to go.
I like FWP
I think FWP is great, but he hasn’t looked himself and if he thinks he should be the Bettis of the Steelers he’s already proved he can’t do that.
We don’t have Bettis and we have to realize that.
"It's time to plant some seeds. What that means is, hit them in the mouth. Ya know, plant some seeds. Show 'em what time it is." --Levon Kirkland
by steelerinchicago on Dec 11, 2008 4:52 PM EST reply actions
Steeler Football is not FWP's Style
Although in the past he has run tough inside, FWP never delivers blows to the DBs/LBs that tackle him (if he gets to the second level at all). He is tough, but he is not a prototypical Steelers running back and so I think he is confused in coming out and saying this. Also, there have been complaints this year that he doesn’t follow his blocks anyway. I like FWP, but I’d like to trade him. A team that spreads out the defense (Indy) or zone (chop!) blocks alot (like Denver) would make, in my view, a better fit for his speed. We need 2 or 3 larger backs regardless if we have a fullback or not if we want to play traditional Steelers ball.
by rushthequarterback on Dec 11, 2008 5:00 PM EST reply actions
World Trip you said,
“I only care about "W’s"…I don’t care about some emotionally attachment to "Steeler Football".
Having a potent and effective " Power I” running attack featuring a bruising fullback was one the reason we won in the past. It was a run, run, pass all up and down the field with a ‘grind em out,’ clock management style that produced all our past offensive succes. Couple that with good, sound defense on the other side and that usually equaled steeler “WINS.”
I agree with most of the posts here ,that scheme was successful for so long; I’m of the old "if isnt broke, dont fix it mentality! " I say we bring back DAN KREIDER immediately! He’s just chilling out at home waiting for his old job back and in return we can return to an effective running team!
I doubt it
Krieder now has years on him, and likely isnt in the best shape anymore. I could be wrong there though.
Problem is, BA simply does not WANT to power run. He wants a pretty offense. And yet he has no idea how to implement the RBs into that. He just sprinkles the run in whenever. It frustrates me because I would be all for a pass first offense if he knew how to incorporate the RBs into it. You need to use them properly.
People need to lay the hell off the kreider-smack. He was cut from the rams, doesn’t that mean anything to anyone?
The Rams have plenty of underperforming players
They have huge coaching problems. I’d take the significance of them cutting him with a grain of salt. I agree with you though, we don’t just bring back Kreider (even if it was worth it) and all of the sudden start playing “Steeler Football”. We have moved to the new system and have shifted personnel around to suit it. Can’t just go back now.
My offseason hopes are for a new OC that can come in, figure out what we do best, cut the fluff from Z+A, and rebuild.
by BallsofSteel on Dec 11, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Not Krieder Smacking
I loved DK, and I still think he has usage. My point is though he is NOT going to magically fix the system we are stuck in. I have a ton of respect for the guy and he was one of our big unsung heroes, but I just dont see him making a difference the way our O line is and the way we are structured.
Doesn't have to be Kreider
It can be any blocking fullback. Look what Lorenzo Neal has done for the Ravens rushing attack.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 11, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
We are 10 – 3 and I don’t care how we go there. Sure I would like the offense to explode for 30 plus, however, we don’t have the line to do this. Plus the line has only been together for 1 year. Give them a break and time to grow together. I like Ben taking them to ChiTown for Dinner and Things.
That was me who said I only care about "W's"
And I agree, we got a lot of wins with that style of football. My point was, that’s not how we are set up NOW. We do not have the O-line to play that kind of football…I think the facts prove this. Bringing back Kreider (who I love) will not change that. Imo, the best chance to win now, is with the style I mentioned above.
Also, a point I made on other posts, our last SB win was achieved with a pass first mentality. We passed the ball to get the lead and we ran it in the second half. I think we need to try and duplicate what we did in 2005/6. I do not think it is a coincidence that when we had that power, dominant run game (where we finished #1,2,3 in the league) and a weak passing game (K. Sewart) we never made it to the SB. A great defense can almost always neutralize a great running game, as we learned in the Cowher’s AFC championship losses, then the QB must pick up the slack. To win the SB, you need a stud QB and we have one, lets use him.
Yes, we need to run as well, obviously. But with this group it won’t be from a smash-mouth, ram it down your throat approach….especially Sunday v. Ravens. Spread them out, draws, quick hitters…
I dont necessarily
care whether it Dan K or whomever, as long as its a bruising lead blocker. BTW…Steelguy99, Kreiders skills hadnt deminished that much last year before he left Pittsburgh and Antoonio Bryant was released by the 49’s and look at him tearing it up on Monday night for Tampa. Just because thunder Dan was released by the Rams doesnt mean he’s garbage.
Excuse any us who would like to have one of the most important pieces in what used to be a storied running team. At the very least, he can still bore a few holes up inside for FWP or MM to run through. Anything would be better than running out of two tights, one back.
I happen to think that the addition of a lead fullback compensates for a lackluster oline.
Kreider
Dan is losing a step (and he didn’t have many to begin with), but don’t read too much into the Rams cutting him. The Rams are always behind and have no need for a FB on the roster at all, let alone a blocking FB. They have to start throwing every down in the second quarter because they’re already trailing by that time.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 11, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
I dont agree with you Mike,
that we gotta now work with what we got now; a pass first offense with the inabiltiy to run the ball effectively. I think it gets hard to win that way in the playoffs. The year we won the superbowl, we were a lot more balanced. We had a potent air attack as well as a power run game to compliment it. Right now we are a pass first time with a weak offensive line, that cant run the rock effectively. That to me spells trouble heading into the home stretch and if we dont do something to rectify the problem, we are going to be disappointed in the playoffs. I agree with FWP, teams that do well in the playoffs usually have a good running attack; that and an amazing defense! At least we got the defense part covered.
I hope Im wrong but the good teams find a way to match up and adjust throughout the season. Let’s see what BA can come up with.
Ric
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to run the ball better and be more balanced. As you say this must be rectified, but how?
My answer is to use Ben, pass first, spread the defense out, create natural running lanes…this will help our Oline immensley, they can just wall people off and don’t have to physically dominant people. This is my solution for this year and I feel gives us the best chance now.
But, come next year, if we draft a stud OL #1, the guys we keep gel nicely, FWP is healthier etc etc etc and we show we can dominant people…fine. But that’s not who we are this year. If we try to establish the run, and rely on our run game to set the tempo for our passing game, I think it’s a big mistake…
Tomlin
I love Tomlin’s response to FWP comments…click on the SteelGuy’s link above “coach Tomlin not happy”, to read the article.
Coach T. is so concise and doesn’t mince words….‘I walk by 5 Lombardi’s not 5 rushing titles’…love it
FWP, is obviously frustrated with his season and he should be. I’m sure it also frustrates him, how much better the offense does when MM is in. It’s so obvious, we are much more effective with MM running and his pass catching ability, I think, will be a big key for our playoff run.
Absolutely loved it
Tomlin was right on point. Willie wasn’t saying a word when he was leading the league and got hurt performing a Franco (tip toeing) when he broken his leg not running hard.
Also, I don’t think Willie understands how missing Hartings, Faneca and Smith (who’s basically robbing the Steelers) were to his success and not the fullbacks.
He should go back to the Buffalo tape when he broke on the scene, he didn’t have a fullback and was hitting the holes at full speed, not tip toeing look for somewhere to lay down. I did see the old Willie in the 4th Qtr of the Dallas game.
Stop being selfish and worry about the W’s or you may be gone for being selfish.
Yeah
I think hes just frustrated with the line like we all are, and he just is putting it a little more PC. He will get there. Its been a tough year for him.
And what is with the whole Smith is robbing us? Um, whether we put him on IR or not he gets paid. Its the FO’s decision. IDK why he is not on IR but its not like he is stealing our money.
I hear you Mike,
I just hope that works come playoff time! Our offensive or lack thereof scares me to death!
Screen or Dump Pass to Willie
Willie doesn’t talk about the screen or dump passes he’s not in postion for or drops on a regular basis
I agree with one thing about running
Running the rock slows down the pass rush and keeps defenders on their heals. So 2nd and 6th becomes an option down and gives Ben a chance to go deep. So, a quick dump to the TE, flair pass to running back, off tackle run, dump pass to WR, straight at Ray Ray. I don’t care, but get us 4 yds on 1st down and we will do fine.
First down
I said on another post we need to pass 80% of the time on first down v. Ravens
Why? In the first half of the Dallas game, out of 11 first down plays we ran 9 times:
FWP carried 6 times for 4 yards
MM carried 3 times for 14 yards
For the whole game, Steelers on first down had 12 carries for 24 yards. Our inability to run on first down, especially in the first half, put us in a bunch of 3rd and long situations, of which we converted only 1. It’s hard to score points like that and that’s why we only had a field goal.
However, once we fell behind 10-3, BA called only 1 other running play on first down. Once we started to throw on first down, we move the ball, made plays, and scored 10 offensive points in 4th quarter.
I think this key for our offense for this game and into the playoffs. Throw on first down at least 80% time…some safe high percentage throws quick outs, bubble screens etc mixed in with throws down the field, up the seam, more aggressive throws.
We cannot, CANNOT, CANNOT try and run on this Raven D on the majority of first downs. If we do, it will not be pretty. BA, learn from the cowboys game, and throw the dam ball on first down…
I don't disagree with the analysis
But I’m not sure about the recommendation.
BA should fix the problem with their first down running, rather than get predictable with the pass. What they did in the second half may have been a decent band aid, but I don’t see that plan working as a permanent solution.
I agree
BA should fix the problem with first down running. But how? Our problems are multiple and varied and there is not a simple fix….especially against the Ravens!!! A tough defense can almost always neutralize a good running team. I love when a team plays against our defense and thinks they are going to establish the run by running on first down consistently, not going to happen!!
Most will agree, the easiest down to throw on is first down. It worked exceptionally well through our playoff games v. Bengals, Colts, and Broncos. You would also play action to the RB, to hold the LB’s an extra step, and then 20-25% of the time give it to the RB, so as not to become predictable.
I don’t have all the answers but I have a real good idea of my game plan and philosophy if were the OC…maybe next year I could apply for the job :)
I dont see a problem running 1st Down
With Waltzing Mewelde your number was 3 for 14. Thats over a 4 YPC. thats pretty solid 1st down gainage.
I think the real issue is with FWP not being ready, or not trusting his body to hold up. Or whatever. But MM seems to be running well and I think he could help a lot. I would like to see him get a few more carries.
yes
MM is running far better than FWP, who isn’t right and probably won’t be all season.
But, I just don’t have confidence in us powering it into the teeth of a really tough Ravens D, especially on first down, no matter who is the RB. Now, I like our chances with MM, who is extremely shifty and is great at finding open spaces, from the spread, running draws and quick hitters. Yes, even on first down, but only after we have thrown a bunch on first down. Pass sets up the run…
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