OLC candidates
Hey all. I've been lurking for a while and decided to sign up, so I thought I'd jump in, introduce myself, maybe try throwing out a topic...
Lived in Pittsburgh from 78 to 81 as an 8 to 11 year old, got swept up and never have cared about any team since. I used to collect those full page caricatures of the 79 players that were printed in the Sunday paper, remember those? As a kid, my favorite thing was the emotional rush of the interception, and the Donny Shell and Mel Blount posters were plastered on my bedroom door. As you can imagine, I about had an apoplectic fit on Sunday when DT won it for us.
To the query. I generally agree with the thought that our woes on the offensive line are due in large part to a lack of effective leadership and vision at the coaching position. Execution of the protection schemes, opening lanes, I think these are performed when the coaching leadership effectively builds the trust and interaction on the line. I don't see that happening. So here's my question-- who's out there? Who is on our dream list for a possible future Offensive Line Coach? College coaches? Young talent with crazy ideas? Former players?
Of course, Larry and Bruce are more than welcome to sack up and prove me wrong this Sunday and beyond...
1 recs |
31 comments
Comments
Dude, I'll get to the post in a second....
but I was rolling when I saw your screen name? Did you pull that from Long Duck Dong?
by Cdsumm on Dec 12, 2008 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
guilty
dong? where is my automobile?
otto moh beeeeeel?
Thanks for the props but I think CarlWeathersMustache sets the bar.
by thedonger on Dec 12, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I will be accepting my award on ESPN next Saturday at 8 eastern, 7 central. But it wouldn’t have been possible without the brilliance ance wit of everyone else on this site.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 12, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Question, I really have no idea who is out there, but I am really eager to hear what Offensive Cordinator and Offensive Line coaches could be brought in.
by frankrmineo on Dec 12, 2008 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wishful thinking
As for the OLC, I wonder what Dermontti Dawson is doing now…..?
by fiveSBrings72 on Dec 12, 2008 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty Of Candidates
There are plenty of candidates out there. Not sure who will come available as the season ends, but like my job or your job there are others that could fill the role admirably.
Just taking last year for example (as I was off the BA & Z bandwagon early) I was debating with those on this site that the Steelers could talk to either Cam Cameron (who was available and is now coaching one of the league leading Offenses in Baltimore) and Steve Sarkasian (USC innovative OC) who was just hired at UW (I think) as HC.
I am sure at years end there will be plenty of offensive, innovative imaginative coaches that could ably replace BA. Just to throw out a name, Brian Billick is currently available. He did a nice job at Minnesota before becoming HC and could fill us in on many tendencies of our main competition in the AFCN, the BrownRavens.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
by 5020 on Dec 12, 2008 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Our situation on offense
With the exception of a handful of guys like Grimm (who has been an assistant head coach for years) OL coaches don’t get a lot of attention. I don’t know where they’ll look if Z gets canned, but I’m sure there’re some guys in the college ranks waiting for a job like this one. I don’t think OL coach is the big problem with our offense, or even our offensive line, though.
The first step to fixing the problems on OL are 1, getting an OC with a specific vision for the offense, and 2, finding the personnel to fit that vision. Our OL sucks because there is no vision for the offense, and our personnel is a hodgepodge. We have 2 viable options for our offensive identity in the future:
1. We could embrace the passing game by spreading the field. In this offense, the run is still very important, but the passing game is what makes it go. If the defense knows you’re running, they usually can stop it. To run this scheme, we need smart, athletic linemen who can run a zone blocking scheme and are good at pass blocking.
2. The other option is to go back to our roots. Get a good fullback, gets some big ugly linemen who can open holes in the running game against anyone. When the defense starts to favor the run, all the sudden Ben burns them with PA and bootlegs.
Both offenses have advantages and disadvantages. We have the skill players to run offense #1: Ben is a great QB, and not very many teams have a QB like him. We also have the depth and variety at WR, TE, and RB to run this offense effectively. Mendenhall in particular is better suited for this type of offense. If we get it to work, we could have one of the best offenses in the league to complement our defense. If our defense has a down year, the offense could still keep us in contention. Right now the Ravens’ future is looking pretty bright, but their defense is more susceptible to the pass than the run. However, it has some risks. We can’t be sure how Ben would do in an offense like this until we see him do it. At the very least he’d need an able offensive coordinator, and OC’s lifespans aren’t usually more than 2-4 years. Also, Pittsburgh isn’t exactly the nicest place to run a spread offense in the winter. I don’t want us to start every year 10-0 then fizzle like the Colts and Cowboys. If we think our defense can maintain it’s standing, maybe we need a safer offense than a great one.
Offense #2 pros and con: we know Ben can run it, even though paying a guy $15M/yr to hand the ball off seems kind of expensive. However, if we can build a successful running game, we know that we have a weapon in Ben that can bust out some amazing stretches when we need him to. It’s worth $15M/yr to have a guy who can take us over the top when it matters. This is the type of offense that works in the playoffs, especially when it’s complemented by a good defense. Even when this offense doesn’t work well or even if we don’t have a great OC, it doesn’t put the defense in bad situations. The main problem with this type of offense is our current personnel. Parker may not be with the team past 2009, and Mendenhall grew up in the spread/zone offense. Cary Davis and Darnell Stapleton are useless in this offense. Kemo would be good in it, but he might be too big of a liability in the passing game to start. We would need a FB and probably a big power back in addition to an OL overhaul.
I think both options could work for us, but we need to choose one, develop an identity, and build our personnel around it. Right now we’re trying to establish the RUN first with a ZONE BLOCKING scheme; unless you cut block (Broncos style) you can’t be a run first zone team. Kemo is possibly the worst zone blocking guard in the league. Starks and Colon’s aren’t very good either. We’re so bad in the zone that we couldn’t even run on the Colts’ 265lb DT’s in cover-2. Our passing game is not scaring anyone, and Ben’s injuries have further hampered it. In addition to being indecisive, Arians is terrible at playcalling, which has gotten Ben killed. Our OL isn’t good at pass blocking and Ben holds the ball too long, but there are WAY too many times where no one is open. We constantly RUN out of 2 and 3 TE formations when our TE’s are clearly better at catching than blocking. We contantly pass out of close bunch formations where blitzing CB’s have a much shorter path the the QB.
These are the reasons our offense is so bad. Individual performances haven’t been great, but when your plan on offense is terrible, you need incredible performances to make it work. With the exception of Ben (who made the offense work last year by himself) we just don’t have the talent on offense to do that. We have a slightly below average OL that can’t compensate for a lousy plan. Larry Zierlein hasn’t necessarily impressed me, but the offense is so fatally flawed, it makes it very difficult to see if the OL has progressed or regressed under his watch. I think it’s likely that he’ll get replaced this offseason, but that’s not the big move that needs to be made.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Dec 12, 2008 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I’m going to spend all afternoon reading this. Thanks BM! I’m not ready to get to work yet.
by steelguy99 on Dec 12, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Sorry. Maybe I should have made it a fanpost
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Dec 12, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
That was well stated. So much so that i have no real response aside from. nice.
by Chicago Steeler on Dec 12, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Breakdown
Thanks BadMaafala
by BallsofSteel on Dec 12, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
perfect assessment of the Steelers O…I watch the games and think where is the creativity?
BA had the same problem in Cleveland
bottom line Bruce needs to be gone…I call a better game on Madden
by ZnJersey on Dec 13, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely right on man!
What stands out to me more than anything else with our offense is our inability to pick up tough yards. In this post, and your later ones, you clearly lay out why we are having all these problems. Fantastic job!
by houksyndrome on Dec 14, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Offense
5020…interesting call on Billick, great point on him having first hand knowlegde of Ravens. But, I don’t think I could ever get past the fact he was Ravens head coach…I don’t like him for that very reason. Also, he sure didn’t do much for their offense when he was there.
I think, if there are any coaching changes, it will be Oline coach who Tomlin fires. I think he likes BA, and right or wrong, will stick with him at least another year.
Badmaafala, real good synopsis of our offense. For our playoff run, I hope BA goes with option #1. But, my question for you is, if it is mostly Arians fault, and not a matter of execution or injuries, why did we have such success last year..both running and passing? Just curious what your thoughts are…
by SteelerMike on Dec 12, 2008 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
STAY AWAY FROM BILLICK!
I mean if you guys want to help out my Ravens and go 7-9 every season, go ahead and pick up Billick. The man did a nice job in Minn because of one reason, RANDY MOSS! You give me a QB who can launch a ball 75 yards and a 6’4" WR who runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, I could get that offense to 500 points in the season. Billick came to Baltimore and said that “He knows QB’s and knows how to run an offense.” HAHAHA, yeah right, as we have been the laughing stock of the NFL on the offensive side of the ball since his tenured and we will probably never have that burden lifted off us until we start averaging 24 points a game. Oh wait, we are doing that now!
NO BILLICK!
You have to hate losing more than you love winning
by Mr MaLoR on Dec 12, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Billick
I don’t necessarily like or respect Billick. Just throwing out a name for donger. My point is that there are plenty of able candidates the FO should be talking to. Last year we whiffed on Cameron and Sarkasian. This year we will whiff on others.
I agree with those above that state Tomlin likes BA. I feel that his defense of BA and blast at FWP for his statements this week cement the fact that ex Brown and current nincompoop BA will be our OC in 09 though I hope I’m wrong. Agree with 45 that he is not a good play caller and I add that I don’t think he’s much of a judge of talent. (ex; Simmons over Stapleton/ Colon over Starks/ Mahan over Stapleton/ Davis over Kreider)
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
by 5020 on Dec 12, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year's offense
Personnel wise, the OL is almost completely different (Colon is the only constant), but I don’t think it’s significantly worse than last year’s (Grumpy Faneca>Kemo, Hartwig>Mahan, Stapleton >= Simmons). FWP has not been healthy, but Moore has run relatively well and is an upgrade in the passing game, so only a small dropoff there. Ben held up a little better last year.
The main difference in our offensive attack is the zone blocking scheme A&Z installed this year, which has been a disaster. Like I said above, this scheme doesn’t fit our personnel, and we’re not loosening defenses enough with the pass.
The other big difference is the schedule. We has an absurdly easy schedule last year, and we hit a lot of teams at just the right time. Against that schedule, we were 17th in the league in yards. The only top-10 defenses we faced were New England (whose stats were inflated by the offense) and Baltimore (minus their top 2 CB’s). This year, we face a top 10 defense 7 times, which has exposed and even exaggerated the problems in our offense. We also learned that our WR’s struggle against good man-to-man coverage teams, which we didn’t face once last year.
Also, against a mediocre defense, an improvising QB like Ben can (and did) make up for play calling deficiencies. Teams like the Jets and Cardinals attacked Ben while maintaining discipline in the secondary and we didn’t know how to adjust. Teams have emulated that some this year, while Ben’s health has also kept him from being as dynamic as last year.
Like I said above, great execution can overcome a bad plan, but we don’t have any superstars on offense outside of Ben. His health has forced him to operate more within Arians’ system, and against good defenses, the result has not been pretty.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Dec 12, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So to summarize...
… someone with skill, discipline, and vision, and not Billick. Wow. Some dream list.
I guess Deebo could do it.
by thedonger on Dec 12, 2008 1:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
OC and OLC
I think we got hurt BAD losing the Whizinator and Grimm on the same year. I had a feeling that would hurt. I think Grimm was a real solid guy and knew what he was doing. And Whisenhunt had a great offensive scheme and look how well Arizona is doing.
5020 hits the nail on the head with BA. Terrible concept of when to run the ball, and terrible judge of player ability. Personnel management is the biggest part of coaching. Using the best players for each posiiton and utilizing their talents is key.
He does not do this well.
I hope hes gone regardless of what happens this year. Hard to say who to replace him with though.
And in all fairness, its hard to judge our O-Line coach when for crying out loud we gave him D-AA college caliber players to work with. At least some of them (fart) colon (fart)
by Mechem on Dec 12, 2008 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whiz and Grimm
Arizona ranks 32nd in the league in rushing, dead last…one of the top teams in passing obviously. Just interesting.
by SteelerMike on Dec 12, 2008 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
using his weapons correctly
i would throw every down if i had warner, fitz and boldin too
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Dec 14, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Bad
you mentioned above that A & Z installed a zone blocking scheme this year. Is this just something you noticed or did you read something back in training camp that talked about a new blocking philosophy.
I know their was discontent with Fanaeca last year and with him gone Coach Z. could put more of his stamp on the OL, but I don’t recall reading anything specifically about a zone blocking scheme. Did I just miss the articles?
thanks
by SteelerMike on Dec 12, 2008 9:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have not heard one Steelers player or staff member talk about it or even mention it (unless you count FWP’s comments this week). I noticed our running plays looked a little odd to me preseason, so I started watching more closely and realized it was a zone blocking scheme. I thought it was incredibly strange, so I left a comment about it on Dale Lolley’s blog. He said no one had talked about it and that Tomlin had the coaches a lot more closed lipped these days. Lolley’s a reporter, not an analyst, so he didn’t have anything else to say. I read some of the game analysis at SteelerFury.com and Stillers.com, and they’ve both mentioned it.
Cgolden has a real nice post over at his Cardinals blog explaining the intricacies of the scheme. You could find it if you dug around a bit. Basically, in man blocking, there is a designated “hole” the runner goes to. Usually a guard pulls and helps open that hole. In zone blocking, each blocker finds a defender close to them and gets a hand on them. The running back starts in one direction, then finds what he thinks the best place to go is and cuts through the hole. Think Peyton Manning running the stretch play.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Dec 13, 2008 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Cable????
How bout the Raiders Coach if he is not retained at the end of the year?
Raiders seemed to run the ball well in 2007 (with zero quality linemen) and was OLC for ATL in 2006 (Led NFL in rushing).
Just a thought
by ZnJersey on Dec 13, 2008 12:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
could work
i doubt he’s back with the raiders after this year, the media has been crucifying him here since the fake field goal botch against the chiefs
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Dec 14, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Bad
I was aware of the difference between the two schemes, just thought I missed some offical announcement of a change in blocking.
After thinking, the blocking scheme probably just depends on the play call. While running from the spread, the zone blocking scheme is employed but when we go “I” formation (which isn’t that often obviously) it’s man bocking.
Incidently, hasn’t anyone elso noticed that when do go “I” formation, it seems to be most effective when we send the FB one way but give the ball to RB the other way? In an earlier game (SD ?), GR had a couple big short yardages conversions with this type of play. However, when we did go “I” and both FB and RB went playside the play was stuffed.
Tom Cable? I say absolutely not to anyone even remotely connected to the Raiders. Btw, Atlanta led the league in rushing in 2006 b/c of Vi
by SteelerMike on Dec 13, 2008 6:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
re: sending the FB and RB different directions
this is why I don’t know why we won’t put FWP and MM (and RM next year) in the same backfield. We heard so much about the ‘pony’ before the season, dunno why we haven’t even tried it…
by acrollet on Dec 13, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also think we do zone more in 2 TE sets, which we run out more than 3 WR. I think we’d have more success running with another WR playing away from the line than one of our TE’s trying to block a LB.
We probably have more success running away from the FB because Davis just helps clog stuff up.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Dec 13, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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