Behind the Steel Curtain: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

The disputable touchdown (part 2)

Sorry guys to keep talking about this touchdown but I just thought I would make this post to try and clear some things up. I know we need to focus on Tennessee now and that we still could have won the game even if the touchdown was overturned but I thought this would be a good post to clarify some of the ruling's that was made before the head official takes all the glory away from my hard work.

Now the official rulebook does not get too specific, it just says when a player is in bounds and catches the ball in possession while behind the opponents goal line. that it is deemed a touchdown. Now it does not get specific and say the ball does not have to cross the plane but it does not get specific and say it does either.

So in this case you must not assume that because the rule for a runner advancing the ball has to cross the goal line that the same rule applies.

Here is what the official rulebook says about scoring:

Section 2 Touchdown
Article 1 It is a touchdown (3-38):
(a) when a runner advances from the field of play and the ball touches the opponents’
goal line (plane); or
(b) while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the
opponents’ goal line.

SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES
(1) The ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on, above,
or behind the opponents’ goal line.
(2) The Referee may award a touchdown when a palpably unfair act deprives the
offended team of one.
(3) For a foul after a touchdown (between downs), see 3-11-2-a and 14-5.

There is a reason why they separated the whole a vs. b matter is that they are showing that you can score in different ways, either a catch for a touchdown or advancing the ball for a touchdown.

These two different ways of scoring have two different rulings on what constitutes a score.

In section 2 article 1 it states that while inbounds any player catches the ball on or behind the
opponents’ goal line is a touchdown.

Now the subject at hand is the player because there is an action that the subject does, catches. So since the player is the subject at matter, the predicate is on or behind the opponents’ goal line. Since the ball is not the subject the predicate does not apply to the ball but instead the subject which is the player. The ball cannot be the subject because the player is doing something to the ball (catching, the verb)

Ask who or what the sentence is about.

Find the main person or thing in the sentence.

The subject is usually a noun (a person, place or thing) or pronoun (words like he, she or they that take the place of a noun).

The subject is usually at the beginning of a sentence, before the verb.

There may be more than one subject in a sentence.

The subject can never be the object of a preposition, words like with, from, under, over, and of.

They made it a point to specify what the ball has to do in part a because the ball in its sentence was a subject. when a runner advances from the field of play and the ball touches the opponents’
goal line (plane);

there is a reason why they specified in this situation and not the b situation. That is because it does not matter where the ball is in the b scenario, as long as while inbounds any player catches the ball on or behind the opponents’ goal line.

Now the rule book is very particular in its meaning and will specify what it means in all situations so nobody is left to assume anything, therefore you cannot assume that rule a is still in effect onto rule b because the rule book would say it is. The rule book does not state that the ball must cross the plane if the player is in bounds and catches the ball with possession in the end zone so therefore the ball does not have to cross the plane if the ball is caught by a player who is in bounds and in the end zone.

If the ball needed to break the plane in order for the touchdown to count,

1. the rulebook would state so in the event of a catch but it didn't. It could have easily done the same as rule a, and say (b) while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the
opponents’ goal line; and the ball touches or crosses the opponents' goal line at some point during the possession of the receiver.
But it didn't. There is no room for assumption as then that would defeat the purpose of the rulebook, and lead to a reforming of the rule book (which may happen if somehow the NFL apologizes and say that they got the call wrong).

2. the head official at the game would have stated that the ball broke the plane and it was a touchdown. He did not mention the ball breaking the plane at all but explained that Santonio got two feet in the end zone, with possession of the ball all the way through his fall. So ball crossing the plane is obviously not a factor.

3. Mike Pereira has confirmed from a source, an ESPN NFL analyst, has confirmed that the right call was made and that it was indeed a touchdown and will explain in Wednesday's edition of NFL Official Review.

Also when people think of indisputable evidence, they automatically assume that means that if you ask 20 people that most if not all of them will agree with you. In this case that is not what it means as it means that there is no question, in the mind of the head referee's view and opinion that there is evidence that suggests against the call on the field. The referee isn't thinking what other people will think but thinks to himself if it is indisputable evidence to show that they call on the field was wrong, and he obviously thinks there was indisputable evidence as he still backed up his decision later in an interview with ESPN. I am amazed that all of these commentators and analysts fail to see this rule but I guess it is the same as the tuck rule in that, nobody really looked into the rule until a situation happens like this. So as much as I hate the patriots, the right call was made in that dreadful playoff game vs. Oakland. and I really hate NE.

Some of you guys (steelguy) will probably disagree but this is my take on the whole matter and appears to be Mike Pereira's take also. I may be wrong but so far what I have found in the official rulebook has made sense and cleared things up for myself and hopefully will clear things up for you.

Sources used:

http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/2006%20NFL%20RULEBOOK.pdf

http://www.harpercollege.edu/writ_ctr/ident_sv.htm

 

0 recs  |  Comment 22 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

While I dont support either of the teams affected by the call,

to me the syntax of the sentence in part b) seems to imply that the ball is the noun being reffered to by “on or behind the opponents’ goal line.”, and therefore unless the ball broke the plain ( Which I cant tell if it did or didn’t) it shouldn’t have been a touchdown.

by aussie_cowboy on Dec 16, 2008 4:43 AM EST reply actions  

The goal line is considered part of the end zone. If the ball touches the goal line, that’s enough for a touchdown. It does not have to go across the goal line.

By the way, what part of Oz you from?

by Hines Ward on Dec 16, 2008 5:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not it was a touchdown,

You guys won the game regardless, and now control you’re own destiny in terms of the #1 seed (? I think correct me if im wrong) Good luck with that and Im hoping for a rematch in the superbowl.

And Im from Sydney

by aussie_cowboy on Dec 16, 2008 7:11 AM EST up reply actions  

We are currently the #2. If we beat the Titans and then the Browns, we will be the #1 seed.

Just wondering about the Oz thing, because I was in Brissie for about 5 months last year. In fact, my cabbie on the way to the airport just happened to be a huge Cowboys fan. I even signed my credit card receipt as Troy Aikman.

by Hines Ward on Dec 16, 2008 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

According to ESPN’s AFC North blog, Walt Coleman said the ball broke the plane, and that’s why it was a TD, even if his wording after the review was confusing.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Dec 16, 2008 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

It is based on the fact that the original call was on the inch yard line.

And not matter how many time you look at the video, there is no way that there was hard evidence the ball crosses. Does not matter if the feet are in there, the point is for the ball to cross the goal line, and many people did not see it happen.

But can we please drop this subject, everyone on this site who is a Pitt fan will say it was a TD, and dont care if it was wrong. You won, my Ravens could have easily done more to get the win.

Focus on the team with the best record in the NFL, and not a game that is over and you won.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning

by Mr MaLoR on Dec 16, 2008 10:00 AM EST reply actions  

The point is that the ball deosn't have to cross the goal line.

As recently as yesterday, I thought exactly as you did. But for a ball that is not in possession by a player, only the player has to be in the end zone when he takes possession. The ball does not.

I FanShot’d a copy of the official 06 rulebook. Look at Rule 11, Section 2, Article 1, Subsection b. The look at the definition of “loose ball” in 3-2-3.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.

by BostonWahoo on Dec 16, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions
Touchdown: When any part of the ball, legally in possession of a player inbounds, breaks the plane of the opponent’s goal line, provided it is not a touchback.

Kevbo: [to George Sherrill] George, you look a lot like Vin Diesel...

Flatbill: Let's get somethin' straight... Vin Diesel looks like me.

-From "The Making of Orioles Magic"

by dayzd toe on Dec 16, 2008 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

definitions versus rules

That definition would appear to clarify what is a vaguely-written rule.

by ec on Dec 16, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats not the actual rulebook

That is the nfl.com dumbed-down primer to football. See the FanShot link if you’d like to read the actual rulebook.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.

by BostonWahoo on Dec 16, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It's an official definition of the term Touchdown...

from the Digest of Rules that is NOT the Beginner’s Guide to Football, but is the most comprehensive set of rules shown on NFL.com…

And the link is from 2006.

Kevbo: [to George Sherrill] George, you look a lot like Vin Diesel...

Flatbill: Let's get somethin' straight... Vin Diesel looks like me.

-From "The Making of Orioles Magic"

by dayzd toe on Dec 17, 2008 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

then stop

coming over to our website, if you don’t want to talk about it. or just don’t post a comment. nobody is making you talk about it.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 16, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent breakdown

Now see I believe looking at it the way you do, then the ball does NOT have to be in the EZ. Which then makes things a lot more interesting for future reference I suppose.

So I guess the way to look at is like this: Pretend the endzone was rotated 180 degrees, and holmes was simply catching it out the BACK of the EZ where its OOB right there.

by Mechem on Dec 16, 2008 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

the difference there is...

the ball has crossed the plane… on the way to the receiver.

Kevbo: [to George Sherrill] George, you look a lot like Vin Diesel...

Flatbill: Let's get somethin' straight... Vin Diesel looks like me.

-From "The Making of Orioles Magic"

by dayzd toe on Dec 16, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

excellent post

Your analysis of syntax, while boring to some, is an excellent explanation of why “on or behind the opponent’s goal line” refers to the player and not the ball. Here is another:

Assume that a receiver catches the ball on the one foot line and is immediately pushed out of bounds before he steps forward so that his feet touch the end zone plane, but he has extended the ball over the goal line. Is this is a TD? I don’t believe so. Afterall, sideline catches are always spotted at the point where the feet exit the field of play rather than where the ball exits the field of play. If this is true, then the rule must apply to the player rather than the ball being on or behind the goal line, which implies (strangely) that the ball need not touch the plane of the end zone if the receiver establishes possession and is himself on or behind the goal line. If this is not true, then those saying the ball must touch the plane of the end zone are correct, but the rule should be rewritten to state that more clearly.

Now, intuitively, I believe BOTH ball and player must be on or behind the goal line on a catch, but this is too much to be inferred from the language in the rule. Perhaps the NFL should rewrite the rule to be more explicit and specific. But until then, I agree with Bleed that the rule appears to have been better applied on the reversal than on the initial ruling.

Finally, did anyone notice that the on-field ruling was made by a line judge whose line of sight was blocked by a Ravens player? And that he moved to his right to make the call, which skews his line of sight to make an on-the-line ball appear outside-the-end-zone? The review via instant replay, in such a case, has a much better line of sight allowing the ref to make the right call than the on-field line judge.

by ec on Dec 16, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

on your other scenario i think it might be a touchdown because since he did not catch the ball in the end zone, but in the field of play, rule a would apply and if he advanced the ball past the goal line before he went out of bounds, that would be a touchdown. The fact that holmes had established himself as part of the end zone makes it a touchdown from my understanding.

So its like if your feet are out of bounds, your whole body is considered out of bounds and it doesn’t matter if you catch the ball while the ball is in bounds, the fact that your body is out of bounds makes the ball out of bounds, even if a little bit is in bounds. But at the same time, if you catch a ball when it is out of bounds but you are in bounds, it is a catch because your feet are in bounds therefore your whole body counts as in bounds. The spot would be where your feet are because that is the only part that is in bounds, even if the ball was in front of behind you like in the fashion santonio caught the ball.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 16, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Only problem with this argument is. . .

That the league continues to defend that the ball crossed the plain in its explanation. Why would they do that if they didn’t have to?

I agree that the wording is ambiguous, but if you are going to defend the TD call, I think (based on what the league is saying) you have to start with the ball.

by The IC Lion on Dec 16, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions  

i am just giving

reason to why the referee didn’t refer to the ball crossing the plane.

People on ESPN don’t always know what they are talking about or the rules, i.e. The Tuck Rule, everyone thought it was a fumble until the NFL cleared it up, teaching everyone about the tuck rule.

I have not heard the league give any explanation yet, just heard them say it is a touchdown but either way the wording is not specific enough and you can only assume that it has to cross the plane.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 16, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Well. . .

Here’s Coleman’s explanation after the game, and an NFL spokesman’s (oooooo, thanks Ed Bouchette) referring to breaking the plane and to Pereira’s review of the call.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08351/935432-66.stm

Interested to hear what Pereira says this afternoon. Anywhere that we can view that?

by The IC Lion on Dec 16, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

okay

yeah I still think the wording is not good in the rule book but either way they got the call right on the field. I thought the ball crossed line and I thought it was indisputable especially from the overhead shot in Hi Definition.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 16, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

On the replay

I thought it looked like the initial contact between Holmes’ right hand and the nose of the ball was just over the front of the goal line. Therefore, he established contact with the ball, maintained possession, and came down with two feet in the endzone…TOUCHDOWN!

However, while that is what I think I saw, I also agree that BMore has a reason to be somewhat upset, because I can’t in good conscience say that the replay was indisputable. I believe it was a TD, without biased, but it was so extremely close that either way could be legitmately disputed as correct.

by NoCal-SteelCity on Dec 16, 2008 3:05 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to BTSC, a blog dedicated to the SIX-time world champion Steelers.

"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."

Art Rooney Jr.

"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Start posting about the Steelers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Prod_small
An idea for the next CBA
Clint_small
Practice Squad Rules
Small
some RB stats for pre season games 3,4
Franco72_small
BTSC By The Numbers
Woodley_small
Week 1 Opponent Preview: Atlanta Falcons

Recent FanPosts

Rsz_roethlisberger_small
A totally random fanpost
Prod_small
Just added Redman to my Fantasy Team
Small
Comparing The Steelers Of The Early 80's To The Steelers Of Today. Could We Be In The Beginnings Of A Down......Nah. That's Crazy, Right?
Small
Cuts of interest around the league (i.e. A. Q. Shipley)
Bt-stdorothymantooth-catalog-1243_small
Troy Smith or Matt Leinart
5467103_small
Looking at the schedule
Small
Final 53

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

FILE - In this May 25, 2010, file photo, New York Jets' Darrelle Revis is interviewed in Times Square in New York. Revis said Thursday, June 10, 2010, he will attend the team's mandatory minicamp next week despite his frustration over the slow nature of his contract negotiations. (AP Photo/ Louis Lanzano,File) +21 updates

Report: New York Jets and Darrelle Revis Finally Reach Agreement

FILE - In this Aug. 28, 2009, file photo, Arizona Cardinals quarterback Matt Leinart looks to throw against the Green Bay Packers during the third quarter of a preseason NFL football game. Leinart seems to be passing the challenge to his role as No. 2 quarterback. Passing would be the operative word. He threw for 360 yards in the second half against the Packers.  (AP Photo/Paul Connors, File) +8 updates

NFL Roster Cuts: Leinart, Houshmandzadeh Among Players Cut As Teams Trim To 53 Players

St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford warms up before the start of a preseason NFL football game between the St. Louis Rams and the Minnesota Vikings Saturday, Aug. 14, 2010, in St. Louis. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson) link

Rams Pencil In Rookie Sam Bradford As Starting Quarterback

More from SBNation.com >


Site Founder & Editor

Me2_small Michael Bean

Steelers Historian

Steeler_small maryrose

Plainview_small Frank Mineo (DYMS)