So whats the deal?
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 11:49 AM EST
161 comments
I have read all the hype on both sides about the towel stomping incident and to be perfectly honest with you I just dont get it, and this is why. If one of my Titans players had done this in your house I would be seriously pissed. I cant ever see that as happening but still. That being said, LP Field was full of those towels. That is OUR HOUSE and in our opinion that is every bit as disrespectful as anything Lendale, Kearse, or Bulluck did. The way I see it is this, the "Terrible Towels" exist for two reasons, one is to show support for your team (which I absolutely understand) and two, to get inside your opponents heads. Now if you are doing that at home, thats one thing. If you bring it to someone else's house and and try that IMHO dont be surprised or offended when the tables get turned. Its called football with an attitude ie. Smashmouth.
If there is another view point I would honestly like to hear it. Not trolling at all I actually like the Steelers and like I said in some other posts, I think your fans and specifically this blog are among the best on SBN. I am just trying to understand what the big deal is.
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Hey, if you are upset at the Towels in Nashville, blame your own sell out fans selling all those tickets on Stubhub to make a profit.
Representing in Louisiana since 1968
by LaSteeler68 on Dec 22, 2008 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Youv'e got to be kidding!
I will start off by saying good win. But here’s my take. I was pissed when I saw it, as were alot of Steeler fans. So if I get a little heated I apologize.
They paid for those tickets, they can do what they want, within reason of course, in them. This would never happen in our house because we have a semblence of respect for the history of the NFL. To throw our towel on the ground and stamp it is a spit in the face (sorry Berger and Reed) to our entire organization. You won we lost celebrate how you want, but have some respect. This makes you no better than the Bungles puss squad whiping their shoes with the towel. If the tables had turned and we beat you at our house I guarantee you we wouldn’t pull that punk ass bs on you, and if we did I would be just as angry.
You bet your ass when the playoffs roll around we’ll be seeing that again and if you think you beat a tough team yesterday you haven’t seen shit. That was the last thing you needed to do was piss off the new Steele Curtain. Because when we get the next oppurtunity to beat LenDale’s teeth in you bet your ass he’ll know he made a mistake. And I like LenDale alot. I wanted him to be a Steeler.
Bottom line is what you did yesterday was something to be proud of. You beat the best defense in the NFL and if you had handled yourselves with a touch of class I’d be singing your praises today, but because a couple of your guys acted like punks I hope we see you again. The thing that should worry you at least a little is that your “leaders” acted like first year punks. If we did that I’d be ashamed of our guys. Maybe if you had a little more history than one Superbowl appearence you could grasp the significance of ours. If we took a simble of your teams pride and tradition and disrespected it like that you’d probably feel the same way but because you snuck a franchise out the backdoor of Houston, TX you don’t have that rich history to have pride in. See you in January, I hope the Titans are still around for us to bloody. Maybe James Harrison will grab that chain your d-line is so proud of and throw it in one of the three rivers. I hope there are cameras to get the footage so I can replay it on a loop.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 22, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That being said...
Congrats on the win, no hard feelings. Best of luck to you.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 22, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..
It was a long rant, I’m happy I only spelled one word wrong.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 23, 2008 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of countries have embassies in the US. All of those embassies hang their flag. If a US citizen were to take down that flag and stomp on it, the relations between the US and that country would be damaged. The citizens of the country that were disrespected would hold a grudge against the citizens of the US for a very long time.
Now imagine if a government official of the US took down that flag and stomped on it.
You may think this analogy is overblown, but that is because you are a titans fan and can’t possibly understand.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 12:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well actually
I work at a US embassy. That is US territory. false argument. You came into our house.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure that if someone stomped on the US flag in the french embassy that that argument would go over very well.
You asked us to explain why it’s such a big deal – I tried. If you choose to ignore any arguments, that’s fine. We shouldn’t travel to your stadium and shouldn’t bring our flags.
I dig it when people in other countries burn the american flag – but hey, it’s their country. That shouldn’t anger me at all. Burn the flag all you want, after all, someone brought it into your country. Might I suggest pissing on it too? Be my guest!
They call it steeler nation for a reason. You can think that’s stupid all you want, but a lot of steelers fan take their team very, very seriously.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think its stupid
Just a bit thin skinned. Guys got out for 60 min and hit each other in the face. Fans scream at them on both sides. About the same time or right after the stomping incident I saw Kearse and several other Titans take a knee withe Steelers players at the 50 yard line and say a pair. Dont try and tell me our players disrespected your guys because they didnt.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As steelers nation sees it the titans overstepped the rules of engagement, no amount of charitable acts will make up for it. I can’t convince you otherwise, but in a democracy majority rules – and there are a lot more steelers fans than titans.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
um come on now.
How is bringing a towel and waving it in your stadium disrespectful?
It is basically a rally towel, now a f-you towel we are the ish. It is mainly looked at as a good luck charm and used to rally our troops.
Now just because it is in your stadium does not mean anything, we bring the towels EVERYWHERE and every week if we are away you WILL SEE TERRIBLE TOWELS in the opponents stadium and it is never regarded as disrespecting them in any sense or way by any steelers fans, it is solely for us not for you.
That was a very stupid act your titans did right there. That disrespected the entire Steeler Organization, the fans, the players, basically the city.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Second read
Quite honestly, If you are a visitor on my land and are talking shit waving a flag in my face and I snatch it out of your hands and stomp on it dont be surprised. I am not a diplomat and have not intentions of that. But that being said This is football not international diplomacy I am thinking yall really need to get over it. I can promise that no one on the Titans was thinking of the funds your towels bring to the needy.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one would be upset if another fan took the flag and stomped on it. It happens all of the time. They are upset that a government official took the flag and stomped on it.
Anyhow, this is exactly why you can’t understand – you think that football and international diplomacy are entirely different. There are a lot of fairweather fans, and there are a lot of fans that can separate football from real life. However, there is a very large contingent of people that take the pittsburgh steelers very seriously. You can think they should get over it all you want, but they won’t.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bro, Keep this in context
This is not international diplomacy and this aint war. Its a ball game, Its and awsome game and I love it. I am a Titans fan win or lose but no matter what at the end of the game no one leaves with arms or legs blown off and no one dies.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of fans talk about the steelers or football more than anything else in their day to day lives – that’s just how it is. Don’t argue with me about how important football should be to me, I try to keep my perspective. If you can’t accept that there are a lot of people who take football as seriously as they do, then that is too bad.
You asked me to explain, I’ve explained it the best I can. I did preface my first response with “you can’t understand” though, so don’t say I didn’t warn you.
P.S. – people do die playing football and they do lose arms and legs.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well ya gotta start some where
Lets be honest, You wanna say your D didnt show up but is was the Titans that had 2 starters on the sidelines and you have no O line. I actually have no issues with you guys buying tickets to our house(Big believer in capitalism). If all you want to compare us to is start up punks go ahead and bring it. I hope they will come with more emotion next time cause it will make for a much better game.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This thread isn’t about the game, it’s about the towel. We talk about how the titans handed the steelers their ass in other threads, you can talk about that in those.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
I was responding to what was said. For what it is worth Rules of Engagement cause people to lose. The other side rarely abides by them.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, steelers fans are pretty old school though.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden
It’s all about RESPECT and PRINCIPLE more than anything. If you don’t get that than move along…………………….,
Every day brings future to past, every breath leaves me one less to my last. DT
by usmcsdi69 on Dec 22, 2008 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jar Head
Dont be a hater bro.
Sua Sponte
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A Hater............?
What the hell are you talking about? I am stating MY point!
Every day brings future to past, every breath leaves me one less to my last. DT
by usmcsdi69 on Dec 22, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
You cannot compare the Terrible Towel and the American Flag.
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Dec 22, 2008 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I see more steelers flags than american flags in western PA, but overall they’re a pretty patriotic bunch.
Do you think fans would be so pissed if they didn’t think the terrible towel was so important?
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know why...
People (and Steelers fans) think it is so important and such a big deal because everyone in the media is telling them its a big deal and it reminds them of the US Flag analogy. Its just no one stops to think that it is NOT that and it is NOT a big deal. Its like a mob mentality.
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
I guarantee if some Steelers and Titans had some extra-curricular activities on the field with helmets off and shit flying everywhere physically, it wouldn’t have been talked about this much. They would have just whooped up on one another and went on with their fines, etc.
Or what if some of the players would have called each other out in interviews or all that. That’s a bigger deal if you ask me, even though its so far down on the list any of us should be talking about.
Its not that big of a deal guys. Truly isn’t. I’d say the same thing about any team or any incident “similar” to this that is not an actual flag of a nation being stomped on.
On a lighter note, the cheerleaders looked pretty.
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The steelers are pretty bored of being called out or threatened in interviews. The towel thing hasn’t happened since 2005, so it’s a newer and more exciting insult.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Titans are Wtiches!
BURN THEM BURN THEM!
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You get the point, I digress.
spelling an’ all.
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it sort of is
I mean the Terrible Towel is a symbol of the Pittsburgh Steelers, like the flag is a symbol for our country.
Now it is not completely analogous to the american flag but you can definitely say they are similar.
Fans look at the terrible towel, and see the flag of the Pittsburgh Steelers, its hard for you because your team lacks the rich history and success the steelers have, so just do us a favor and don’t try to understand. Just know that it is disrespectful.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the towel to flag comparisons are hilarious
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
I must be so immature. I am probably in 3rd grade. “S”
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was not ...
a terrible towel—it wasn’t even a reasonable facsimile.
Their is no comparison between the National flag and the terrible towel; though they both have meaning, the Flag is for real.
by tenthmtnman on Dec 22, 2008 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The flag itself...
isn’t anything more than a piece of cloth. It’s what the flag stands for that is really real. And in the same sense, that is what the Terrible Towel is, a cloth representation of our team and our history. Are they equals, no. Are they similar, yes. Don’t stretch a previosly made statement into absurdity, when the analogy made was originally misunderstood.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 22, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said
If you bring a rag into or house and wave it in our face and taunt us dont be surprised if it gets snatched and stomped. Remember there are two sides to this story.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like any polarizing issue (since i’m on a roll with over the top comparisons: like abortion) there’s just no way to bring someone over to other side. Titans fans will never see why the steelers are so pissed, steelers fans will never see why the titans think it was no big deal.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
likewise
Titans fans will never see why the steelers are so pissed, steelers fans will never see why the titans think it was no big deal.
Is that one of those theological arguments? lol. Kind of like “You can’t prove God doesn’t exist because you just can’t cuz you can’t and stuff”. Hey I can give you a slight…sliiiiiight…. “maybe” on the argument that we have no history and the Steelers have an awesome history so we just can see the other side of it. But shit maybe you guys should think of it from our immature, young, blissful world view where little yellow towels don’t matter that much.
I’m laughing at the abortion reference, by the way. Good stuff.
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Youthful point of views don’t mean much in Pittsburgh, sorry.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
Wasn’t trying to be critical of the analogy. Just its interpretation.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 22, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most teams
Will let their win do enough talking. I can promise you that the Steeler Nation would be a lot more civil right now if Lendale hadn’t done the dirty. Guess the Titans have to go over and above just the win and really try and rub it in our faces. You guys should have waited till the post season. It will come back to haunt you. Just like it did for Cincy. Secondly, we didn’t wave it in your face. It was a planned celebration with a fake towel. You didn’t snatch shit from anyone. A steel fan isn’t going to give up his towel to ANYONE! Even if LenDale did take a towel; there would be a storm of steeler fans charging him. The only side to your story is that your 2nd year player disrespected a much deeper franchise by desecrating a sports symbol created by a past legend and embraced by millions. So if you want us to be quieter than White’s nutritionist, than you haven’t seen what Steeler Nation is about. I promise you, and you can take this to the bank, Your Fat one yard back will regret ever messing with the towel.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
look
i don’t know if you had a bad experience with a terrible towel but it is not meant for TAUNTING or WAVING in someone’s face.
I don’t even remember the last time a player waved one on the sidelines so I don’t really see what they did disrespectful to the players. Instead i see it as disrespectful to STEELER NATION. They really did it this time. What have they even accomplished? NOTHING. Sure you beat us, celebrate with yourselves, don’t take something that is ours and try to destroy it, that’s just ridiculous, now we have a mission if we face you guys again.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone died defending
what the Terrible Towel stands for?
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Dec 22, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please attempt to take the analogy in context.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Respect
A lot of people think an anlagy with the American Flag is disrespectful no matter what the context. (I actually agree. War analagies and Flag analagies should not be used lightly especially in atime of war) Don’t be suprised when people throw this kind of thing back in your face.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could spell
or took the time to spell check.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So now we’re going to argue whether my analogy was respectful or not?
We’re talking about football the game and the hijinx that surround it, not politics. If you want to defend the american flag, abortion, etc., there are plenty of places to do that on the internet. Any continuation of a conversation vaguely political will be ignored.
I apologize for using an analogy that could be misconstrued as disrespectful by some, and will try my very hardest to keep all blog conversations in the future filled with bunnies and sunshine.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have buuny that died
He actually got too much sunshine and cooked his insides. Thanks for being so disrespectful to my bunny.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I apologize for referencing bunnies and sunshine. May said bunny rest in peace.
If said bunny has created a towel, could it please be forwarded to my address so that I may stomp on it?
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This has been the funniest part of this discussion all day. Thanks steelguy!
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY?
do titans fans continue to try and act like its not disrespectful.
Analogies are used to compare to different things, not to say they are EXACTLY the same so get off this man’s case. His analogy makes sense and is not saying they are the same so just accept the fact that it was a very disrespectful thing to do to stomp on the flag of the steelers.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I own a gun safe
Want to test me what the combonation is?
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're very smart.
yet very ignorant. One day my young grasshopper. You will know.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 23, 2008 4:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
Is it the AFC Championship yet? Please be there Titans.. PLEASE!
by sn0wballz on Dec 22, 2008 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Flip side
Yall are pissed about the towel. We are pissed about the way yall brought it into our house. You wanna talk about respect and pride but refuse to think about the ramifications of your opponent having pride and respect. Hate to break it to you but the Steelers are not the only team with attitude.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If you continue with that line of thinking maybe you can get the same “respect” that philly fans have earned.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
John Kruk has all my respect
he can eat more hot dogs than Babe Ruth.
And that’s adjusting for inflation.
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am "Terribly" sorry
I forgot the Steelers invented football. May we all bow down and pray.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
History wasn’t at all why I mentioned the eagles (and flyers) – it has more to do with the class of their fans and their pride in physically assaulting opposing fanbases.
If I was talking about history, why would I have mentioned the eagles who have bee around as long as the steelers? I guess you wouldn’t know that though, because you don’t care about history and enjoy making a mockery of those who do.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
I just think respect goes both ways. Yall wanna disrespect us dont be surprised when it gets thrown back in your face. If you have a prized toy dont bring it to a fight and expect it to not get stomped on.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cheering for your team is not being disrespectful of the opposing team. Steelers fans don’t feel affronted when fans come and cheer for their team at heinz.
Clearly we feel differently on this issue in a lot of ways – on how fans should treat other fans, on how players should treat a fanbase (opposing or their own), and on whether something can be a “toy” and a symbol at the same time.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
There’s way more weight to a “professional” athlete displaying such disrespect than a fan who paid money to enter a stadium to root for their team.
by sn0wballz on Dec 22, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
I am not sure anyone was saying Steelers fans are bad for showing up at the Titans house. In fact, that’s pretty bad ass if you ask me. The Steelers have, what, the biggest or one of the biggest fan bases in football if I am not mistaken and it still shocks me to see just how many Steelers fans there are out there on game day. They just come out of the woodwork on games like that and its a sign that we need about 30 more years of good football in Tennessee to get some more people on board. But Nashville will never have that market in my opinion.
by palpacino on Dec 22, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I don’t think Tennessee will have that market either.
I made the comment though because your boy Oden1 said you guys were pissed that we brought the towel or something like that.
by sn0wballz on Dec 22, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sn0ballz
Go back and read the whole thread. I was just pointing out there are two sides to this story.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and you said
Flip side
Yall are pissed about the towel. We are pissed about the way yall brought it into our house. You wanna talk about respect and pride but refuse to think about the ramifications of your opponent having pride and respect. Hate to break it to you but the Steelers are not the only team with attitude.
that sounds like you saying you were pissed that we brought the towel into your house.
and stomping on the towel has nothing to do with pride or respect but instead how much IGNORANCE AND IMMATURITY your players have and obviously the fans too.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 5, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the Steelers fan base
The ones I met were pretty cool. But like I said If you bring attitude expect it to come back on ya if it dont work out quite the way you planned. Some of you are sounding like you expect us to take your attitude and then just sulk away and excuse it like we are a little cousin. We believe in our team and expect the same respect that yall feel that you are entitled to. If you cant give it then we will take it. Its that simple.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This just again boils down to:
1) You think fans visiting with towels was disrespectful – steelers fans do not.
2) You don’t think the towel means anything – steels fans do.
These points can’t be reconciled, lets move along and each cheer for the better team. There’s two opposing viewpoints to that one too – and we won’t be able to change each others mind on that one either. Unless we’re talking about Dec 21st.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oH NO!
What an unclassy act? Son, the towel was around long before Jeff Fisher was crapping in his diaper. How dare a cheese head wear that in our stadium! How dare those Seattle fans get super loud on a 3rd down! Deal with it. What fans do in the stadium isn’t governed by Roger Goodell. They’re governed by the police. Professional Athelete’s are paid to act in a professional manner. Not the fans. Don’t give me that wave a towel crap. And don’t be jealous that titan fans don’t have tradition and we do. Just be happy you beat us and go on to the next week.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually they are played to play football.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea you're right
Play football is all they’re paid to do. When they’re not on the field they can tote handguns in nightclubs, murder dogs, and do drugs. As long as they play football. Now you sound like an idiot. Don’t get into the fine details it makes your statement look tired and childish
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually those things would be against the law. They would get in trouble for those things.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to be drunk
can no one pick up on sarcasm? i’m just going to put a huge S next to every statement that is obviously sarcastic but apparently can’t be picked up on. don francisco- try and read what you’re replying to before you hit “post.” you must be a third grader. <- “S”
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 23, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes everything I post is absoulutely literal and with no sarcasm “S”
Have you seen my other comments on here?
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the idiots who stepped on the towel were not thinking about ‘respect’ and ‘pride’ and fans bringing the towel into your house.
They were merely trying to brag that they beat us and were up by 17 points and saying they crushed the steelers so they were going to try and brag and basically spit in our face. We bring those flags into every stadium and do the same thing with them every road game. Now every team has their own little towel but nothing can live up to the Terrible Towel.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one disrespected you
We did what we do. Show up to road games and support our team. Your fans sold their tickets, we bought them. Take the money we gave you and invest it in resigning your MVP calibre DT. I don’t hear the fans of every other team bitching about it. Or maybe they have the respect for us that we show them. We didn’t show up on their board under the guise of “understanding our side” and pick a fight with them. You did. If you were disrespected by us cheering for our team buy up the tickets yourselves or just keep them and show up to see your great team play. And thats not a jab you’re good. Why would your own fans not show up to see a great team play? Thats disrespectful.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 22, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That is a great question.
I have no idea why some didnt show up. I really dont care about other teams and what they do when the Steelers come to play. From what I saw there was never any question of our players disrespecting yours. I wasnt posting under any guise and I stand by my posts. I am a pretty aggressive guy and I cheer for my team to the point that I am typing on here because I have no voice today. I guess it is what it is. Hopefully we can settle this in a few weeks. Good luck to your team.
by Oden1 on Dec 22, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember the Titans
Cause no one will when the AFC North takes them off the map come post season.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stomping crapola
The funniest thing about this thread is Oden1’s earlier assertion that " If you bring a rag into or house and wave it in our face and taunt us dont be surprised if it gets snatched and stomped." Simply bringing a ‘rag’ into his stadium is in itself disrespectful !!
I guess the Steeler fans shouldn’t wear any Steeler gear either, maybe just show up in blue jeans and a blue jacket so as to blend in with the crowd. Fans shouldn’t be grabbing other people for any reason other than self-defense. You are watching a game, not fighting in the streets!!
Hey, I’m a HS football coach and lifelong Steeler fan – so I get it. I get jacked up watching the game but come on… it’s not disrespectful to support your team at an away game. The Titans outplayed the Steelers and deserved to win.
I do get the feeling that the Steelers were just not 100% into the game. They have had a whole string of “big games” in the last 4-6 weeks so they were bound to lose one soon. The Steelers O Line is suspect and is there biggest issue. It will be interesting to see if Pittsburgh plays differently on defense if they meet again. I do think Fischer is a good coach and I like his style…. let’s hope Haynesworth doesn’t have another stomping incident of his own ever again….
"Franz" in NoCal
by franz on Dec 22, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haynesworth
I’m suprised that you are the first one to bring up that point. This team is a bunch of foot-stomping, low-life, gutter rats.
by Jonny B. on Dec 22, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There you JB, combat our "disrespect" by showing how much class YOU have.
Way to make your point!
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First Amendment
I have the Right to Free Speech which allows me to stomp the American Flag or a terrible towel.
By the way…this whole discussion is hilarious…
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LenDale has the right to do it.
He just isn’t very smart. I mean really, have you ever heard the man speak? He can’t put together a sentence if you spot him a noun and a verb. The TT is the banner for our nation. I’m sure a class guy like Coach Fisher didn’t appreciate one his players giving extra motivation to a team that they may be playing in another month. I have to believe from the past incident with T.J. and some comments made already by some of the Steelers that this insult WILL NOT go unavenged.
by Jonny B. on Dec 22, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your thought process
is what’s hilarious. You should go stomp the american flag. You have the right. Go do it. just do it in the middle of the street with a bunch of rednecks watching. I’ll pick out your casket.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 23, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should I have put an “S” up there for you, oh dung beetle?
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this really worth arguing about?
In the long run, it doesn’t matter what the fans think. The bottom line is that LenDale White showed the same level of class as TJ Houshmanzadeh a few years ago. You can argue that it was disrespectful to bring terrible towels into the Titans’ stadium, but please . . . . An NFL stadium allows anyone who pays for their ticket to come in. This is not “sovereign Titans territory” or something as big as all that.
In the end, White provided possible bulletin board material to another team. Period. It’s now up to the Titans to back it up should they meet again. Defend it if you want.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Dec 22, 2008 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I WISH HE HADN'T HAVE DONE IT BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EASY TITAN WIN THE NEXT TIME WE PLAY, BUT NOW THAT THE STEELERS HAVE THAT EXTRA MOTIVATION TO WIN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET MOTIVATED FOR OTHERWISE,
You see how stupid you people sound? You know what Jeff Fisher’s bulletin board material will be?
IT’S THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!
Good lord.
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I agree, but to say that added motivation has no impact is to ignore human nature.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Dec 23, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right Tomlin will probably say
something to the effect that if you don’t want to see that happen again just win the game. Everything else will be gravy.
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NFL
The NFL may allow Fans to bring in a towel if they wish but does the NFL allow Lendale to stomp on the towel? Did he get fined? Suspended? Banished from the league?
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just like in real life there are a lot of things you can do on the football field that are perfectly legal but can and will still be considered very disrespectful.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disrespect
I would be talking about disrespect too if my O-Line looked as bad as the Steelers did.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re tired of talking about our awful O-line though – we have nothing else to say about it.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
o-line?
don’t try to talk about our problems, you know you guys have some problems too now.
Maybe since you guys don’t have a symbol for your team like we have the terrible towel, you will never understand
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
once again
missing the point you dolt.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 23, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
myron cope?
what about the fact that myron cope just died recently?
not a great way to respect the dead
by tha1andonly57@aim.com on Dec 22, 2008 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and btw
In 1996, Cope gave the rights to The Terrible Towel to the Allegheny Valley School in Coraopolis, Pennsylvania. The school provides care for more than 900 people with mental retardation and physical disabilities, including Cope’s autistic son.
Proceeds from the Terrible Towel have helped raise more than $2.2 million for the school. During the 2005 season, when the Steelers won their fifth Super Bowl, more than 1 million Towels were sold; as some fans bought 200 Towels at a time.
When you mess with the Towel, you mess with karma. What comes around goes around.
by Jonny B. on Dec 22, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since this thread looks fun
I’ll throw some thoughts in here as well.
There’s a difference between fans and players. Always will be. That’s why when one of our players “guarantees” victory against the undefeated patriots last year it’s news and bulletin board material. Many, many, many fans make those types of statements every day and no one cares. But a player? they’re held to a higher standard, for better or worse. Same reason fans can call a player they don’t like nasty names, a player should not do that. Players are always held to greater standards and should consider things more closely then fans.
To avoid nation-wide analogies (although I don’t disagree with steelguy) it’s similar to when TO goes and stomps on the star in Dallas (previous to playing there). Dallas fans were outraged. And in some ways for a reason. That star means something to them. And it’s disrespectful to disparage it.
The titans mopped us up on the field. And can take great pride in that.
by Chicago Steeler on Dec 22, 2008 3:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
From the creator's mouth....
“I did not see the Terrible Towel as witchcraft to hex the enemy. It would be a positive force, driving the Steelers to superhuman performance, but if it experienced a yen for mischief and created fatal mistakes by opponents, I would tolerate that.”
—Myron Cope
by Jonny B. on Dec 22, 2008 4:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Keyword
“if” as in: If you can’t handle it than you aren’t that professional.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's just so classy
Just so we’re on the same page that everyone can see what a respectful and classy athelete like White would say if he got :03 seconds of time on television to say something. Hmmm… I bet he says that he’s really glad to be a part of this football team and will continue to do what he does best. Let’s watch and see!
Oohp! no he chose to trash the buckeye’s from an NFL locker room. What a class act guy.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lendale White, TO, Message Board Trolls
What do they all have in common…
They want attention! So, by all of you guys getting up on your soapbox and shouting “He stomped on my banner that a man dedicated to little children” is giving Lendale exactly what he wants.
Here’s my advice…
Chill out.
Open a can of your beverage of choice (unless it is water b/c water in a can is gross).
Be thankful you are not as stupid as Lendale, TO, or a troll.
And enjoy the holiday season
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 4:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yea
Cause LenDale is a regular on SB nation. He has no idea. I’ll enjoy the holiday season. But what I’ll enjoy more is when Troy knocks him back into the 90’s come playoff time. As long as Ray Ray doesn’t get to him before us.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hear ryan clark is going to punch him in the face.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with his dislocated arm?
Is he going to whip it at him?
by DonFrancisco on Dec 22, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ll have to ask him, I only have what has been reported. Lendale white doesn’t have too much to worry about though, it’s not like ryan clark has every hit anyone hard.
by steelguy99 on Dec 22, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True that
I don’t think Ryan has ever hit anyone hard worth noting. Guess the towel stomp will just slide and the Titans will have gotten the best of us.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about
Wes Welker…i mean Ryan Clark hit him HARD…i enjoyed that hit. :)
The grass may be greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed
by PsycoSalameh on Dec 22, 2008 6:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You obviously
Didn’t pick up on the sarcasm my friend. I even made a link to the video in the word “hit.” Ryan Clark can level the best.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot your
S you were suppose to put at the end lol. – S
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone miss the point here?
Titans and their fans don’t give a shit about your towels or your traditions. If we did, we’d be Steelers fans.
Congratulations on managing to locate so many tickets to LP Field and making your presence felt. It was unbelievably obnoxious to see a sea of yellow rags in our house; the players didn’t enjoy playing a road game in Nashville, so they taught you a lesson. Can’t say that I blame them.
I’m sure it sucked to drive 8 hours, wave your towel around, get your asses handed to you and the get your towel “disrespected”. Sorry about your luck.
If you don’t want to see your towels stomped again, you have two options – win the game, or keep those foul rags away from our field. The choice is yours.
by BeansCarter on Dec 22, 2008 9:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we'll vouch to win
but i’m pretty confident ray ray and the b-more whore’s will hand you your asses in the playoffs if we don’t get to you first. you’re just another helpless fan missing a chromosone that is blinded by one win and all of a decade of tradition. congrats on the win. call it a foul rag again and see how it tastes.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 22, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Foul Rag.
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
LOL the steelers decided to lose that game. next time they will decide to win it because it COUNTS.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 5, 2009 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You all forgot something
You dirty Ten’Teeth Titan folk dont even know what the towel DOES.
Every profitable dime on those beloved items helps children. The Children.
You just stomped on the financial hope of children.
Wow. That makes you assholes.
by Mechem on Dec 22, 2008 10:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
haha
nice mechem. Guilt em out.
by Chicago Steeler on Dec 23, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is ridiculous
You could state that it was a harmless act but thats just ignorance. I’m not saying tis worth crying over or anything but it is clearly an insult.
Heres the thing: the Towel is a symbol of the organization. Its like TO celebrating on the Dallas star (or whatever he did back in the day). It is designed to be an insult to the other team. You can deny that all you want but its true. Its kind of like saying “in your face!”
I like the American Flag reference someone used. Sure they are on different levels but its the same basic principle. The American Flag is a symbol of the United States and stomping on it is an insult towards the country. The Terrible Towel is a symbol of the Steeler Nation and stomping on that is an insult to the organization. Its that simple, an action of disrespect.
Now, I’m not saying that White and Bullock were thinking “hey, F you Steelers” or anything like that, they were simply excited about the win. However, that doesn’t make it not an insult. So while they look at it as harmless the Steelers look at it as insult, and thats that. So, by stomping the towel they simply gave the Steelers something to be angry about (other than an ass stomping on the field), which i think is foolish.
And to say that it is disrespectful by Steelers fans to show up at the Titans stadium is asinine. How dare they go see their favorite team in person. How dare they live in Tennessee. How dare they were their Steelers gear. Cmon, seriously……………….
If I were a Titans fan I’d be mad seeing them doing this. Like I said earlier, why would you want to give a team another reason to wanna beat you? You just beat them in the field then you take it off the field and keep on insulting them……I just don’t get it. But also like i said, i don’t think they were intentionally trying to attack Steeler fans, they were living in the moment……………..(though I wouldn’t put it past Lendale “I don’t care” White).
by shleeve on Dec 22, 2008 11:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i don't know
i think they were saying “F you steelers”. Come on now, they looked for a camera and I couldn’t hear what they were saying but it just boggles my mind that someone can watch that and think it is not disrespectful.
I mean usually when people get excited they are like jumping up and down and pumping up the crowd or something or just talking. NO they had to go out before the game and get some yellow towels and try to print Terrible Towel or something on them, find a camera guy and stomp on the flag and talk junk into the camera. That was an insult and I hat e the Titans for that. I hope we play them again, this time for real, real stakes on the line, not just who gets to have home field if the same two teams meet again. NO next game is for the Super Bowl. Next time the game is going to be much more than just a game. Lendale White just might get killed.
PS – Lucky we still don’t have Joey Porter, imagine what he would have done if he saw that? or even someone like Ray-Ray, he would try to injure someone for their career after something like that, come to think of it, Not EVEN THE RAVENS have done that to us! Look how low those titans are.
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 23, 2008 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, good point
I guess they did premeditate this.
I wish we did have Porter for this…..that would have been interesting. But I’m sure the others will make up for this. Clark already said that even with a dislocated shoulder he will hit White right in the mouth……..don’t piss off a big hitter.
by shleeve on Dec 23, 2008 3:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What we needed was Jack Lambert
to race across the field and take on the whole Titans bench, because that’s exactly what would have happened back in the day.
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
omg yes
Yeah if this had happened 30 years ago I can guarantee you the Titans would have had their asses beat red.
Oh wait, your team didnt really exist 30 years ago. My bad.
by Mechem on Dec 23, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They were the Oilers then.
We beat them in the playoffs in ’79 and ’89. I hate them and they stank.
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But they didnt exist as they are today. My point is, they just “moved” and renamed and changed their logo to a flaming thumbtack and their mascot to a rabid wild animal.
I do hate them and they stank. Honestly, they werent on my H&S list earlier this year. Now they are…. Current rankings of hate and stank:
Cleveland
Baltimore
Cincinatti
Dallas
New England
Ten’Teeth
Jacksonville (god does it stank there)
Philly
Oakland
by Mechem on Dec 24, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
they weren’t on my hate list either.
Here is my list (As of right now):
Baltimore
Dallas
New England
Tennessee
Jacksonville
Cleveland
Cincinatti (only because of 05)
by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 5, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Towel is a representation of so much
It’s a representation of the great Steeler teams of old; of the players that our parents grew up watching and cheering. Its a representation of the Rooney family, who has meant so much the city of Pittsburgh over the last 70+ years. Its a representation of 5 Super Bowl rings, countless Hall of Famers, and great coaches. It represents Myron Cope, his years of being a part of the Steelers family, and his philanthopic work that has touched the lives of so many men, women, and children. And, lastly, it represents the city of Pittsburgh…a city that deeply depended on the Steelers in the 70’s, and has been emotionally entrenched ever since.
Do I expect Tennessee fans (or any other fans) to understand? No, not really. But, to us fans, who support the Steelers, who identify with them and what they mean to the city of Pittsburgh (and for some fans, what they have meant to our families), it is an insult. And it does piss us off.
So, while I don’t have any analogies (funny, realistic, or otherwise) that’s how I see it. I just hope that you Titans fans can understand that. There’s no way for me (or any Steelers fans) to make you guys respect the Towel, but that’s not what I’m trying to do. I’m just trying to help you understand why it’s a big deal to us.
by NoCal-SteelCity on Dec 23, 2008 3:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I understand why it is a big deal
But I do not understand why you react to something like that by saying:
“They desecrated something we love that stands for class! That bunch of head-stomping gutter rats!”
And comparing it to the American flag.
You all (not you in particular) are acting like a bunch of idiots.
Oh, and Bleed-Black&Gold said that the Steelers lost on purpose.
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find comparing us to idiots more insulting than comparing the terrible towel to the american flag.
by steelguy99 on Dec 23, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then your priorities are screwed up.
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm out. See ya
And thanks for being civil steelguy99. You are welcome at MCM anytime!
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I’ll make sure to stop by and call most of your fans idiots the next time I’m there!
by steelguy99 on Dec 23, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This post can be deleted
As soon as the AFCC game is over. Titans or no titans.
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 23, 2008 4:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know and I know that they will be using this video for decades.
by steelguy99 on Dec 23, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another angle on the thing
The Terrible Towels are the domain of fans. Our players (not that I have ever noticed) don’t go around waving them in the game. Players should keep their activities on the field of play versus other players and be professional in interactions with fans. I see this as players goading and insulting fans, not to mention the fact that the Towels represent charity as well (your guys are probably our there stomping on Salvation Army buckets as we speak). It was a classless and dipshit thing to do – especially after winning on the field. It cheapens your victory and brings you on par with the bengals – congratulations.
Are we gonna cry over it….no. Will it motivate our team – you betcha.
by SCSteeler on Dec 23, 2008 10:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that still whining about it 2 days later is akin to crying over it.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that I only get to a computer every three days or so, and am catching up on the buzz on the board.
BTW – didn’t a Titans fan start this thread asking what’s the deal? We are attempting to educate here all you poor souls whose traditions are what – being ex-oilers, or that missing yard in your SB vs the Rams. If this was fans doing this to fans…whatever, but for the players to start interacting with fans in this way is just trash. IMO.
Totally off the point – why do the Titans have a racoon as a mascot? Also did anyone else notice someone dressed up like a pink bunny(?) holding a rifle patrolling the sidelines. I thought Steely was bad…
by SCSteeler on Dec 23, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Racoon- Tenneesse state animal is a racoon. That is the only reason.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 23, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Steely McBeam is PA's state animal
by NoCal-SteelCity on Dec 23, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
It is is hard to make a mascot out of a flaming thumbtack.
by DonFrancisco on Dec 24, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive seen players waving Terrible Towels
Coming out of the tunnel at big home games and I think that’s exactly what some of them should do if we have to go back to Tennessee for the AFCCG.
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would appreciate
the kind of reply we gave the Bengals.
by SCSteeler on Dec 23, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After Hines breaks the game wide open.
We’ll take the 15 yard penalty for using a “prop”.
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kimo von Oelhoffen
Is back on our roster. Put him in there the first series. I know what he did to Palmer was unintentional. I’m just saying….
by Jonny B. on Dec 23, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Steeler fans threw them on the field.
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have FM radio in Tennessee
Now accepting applications for the Michael Griffin Man Crush Club at Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Dec 23, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Your house...."
…is a misnomer.
If you don’t want the fans of opposing teams coming to “your house”, the NFL won’t send “their teams” to play you. Have fun bashing pads against your practice squad. Like most any other sport, NFL football is a contest between two teams that is held for the enjoyment of the fans of both teams. It is not a sport held for the enjoyment of the home team only. Stadiums are open to fans of both teams.
A certain level of decorum and civility must be maintained for the crowd’s safety and their ability to enjoy the game. That’s why stadiums have security. To the best of my knowledge, no stadium has outlawed waving towels. If they were to do so, what would come next? No jerseys? No foam fingers? No signs? No face paint? Waving a terrible towel is a respectable method to cheer for a team. When cheering for your team is outlawed, the game should cease to be played.
The Steelers have a great deal of support outside Pittsburgh for several reasons. First, they have been a very successful and charismatic franchise. Second, as the steel industry declined and the economic picture in and around Pittsburgh suffered, some people elected to move away in search of job opportunities. They took their towels with them and show up when their old team plays. If you find that kind of support “disrespectful”, you are just a fanboy blinded by by your own team’s colors.
by Varmint on Dec 23, 2008 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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