Officiating/Personal fouls...

by SteelerMike on Dec 3, 2008 3:14 PM EST Comment 9 comments

Here is a list of actions (did I miss any?) the NFL has deemed to be flaggrant and excessive. I have been concerned about where the NFL is headed regarding these calls. I only hope that one of these calls doesn't go against us in a playoff game and cost us the game (ie big 3rd down stop late in the game...but noooo...late hit on the QB...questionable call but the ref throws the flag anyway...UGH)

1. Can not hit the QB in the head (even if inadvertly b/c your trying to block a pass)

2. Can not hit the QB below the knees (even if blocked into him)

3. If you are fortunate to hit the QB, without drawing an infraction, you must not land on him unnecessarily.

4. No horse collar tackle. Can someone explain what else a defense player is supposed to try an grab as an offense player is running away from him?

5. No helmet to helmet. I played football from the age of 9 through 4 years in college and let me tell you...in a lot of instances you lead with your head.

6. No launching. What the hell does that me? I mean...I know what it means but come on...so your supposed to tackle flat footed?

7. Can not push someone around the pile after the whistle...no matter if you are in motion before the whistle blows, didn't hear the whistle, or can not stop your momentum.

8. Can not hit someone out of bounds...no matter if the player is just barely OB and you are running full speed and the player steps out of bounds in the last possible second.

I understand what the NFL is trying to do but they are on a very slippery slope. By it's nature the game is a violent collison sport. By all means have rules for flaggrant, personal fouls but as it stands now, most times a player is laid out by a big hit, it draws a flag.

More rules to come? When the NFL said it will review "crack back" hits like Hines had on Cincinniti LB Rivers it's apparent things are only going to get worse. So, now every one on the field is 'defense-less...LB's in pursit of a RB, special teams players chasing the ball?

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The NFL is...

sad, sad, sad. I guarantee you that the boys from the 70s could do almost all of that. 1-6, was all legal. I agree that helmet to helmet should not be allowed however. I don’t think all these QB rules are going to be permanent. It’s effing ridiculous that you can’t do that to a quarterback. Somewhere down the line Rose Goddell is going to have a bunch of angry owners, players, and fans shouting for change. The level of hypocrisy is out of this world too. You sell DVDs on your website, capturing some of the greatest hits ever in the NFL, and fine and penalize the players for doing what you’re promoting. Makes me sick. Goddell and his book club can go _ themselves.

To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)

Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.

by HighSchoolSteeler on Dec 3, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Devils advocate

First let me be clear about my own background. The only football I ever played in my life is in the backyard. I probably couldn’t hurt a fourth grader while trying to tackle him. But I respect the addition of some of these rules.

I know they are hard to enforce. I know that they have cost our team this year, and that they limit the physicality of the game in some ways, but I think they also protect players health.

Yes the game of the 70’s was more violent, but the average O-Line Men back then weighed about 250 pounds. In 1978 the heaviest Steeler was Joe Greene at 275 pounds. This years roster has 10 guys (6 starters) listed above that weight including Casey Hampton who is listed at a very generous 320. In 1978 our heaviest linebacker was a guy named Dirt Winston – listed at 228. This year all of our linebackers saved Keryon Fox are over 230 lbs.

What’s more we are not talking about flab here (save our good friend Hampton). These guys are big, strong fast men. Look at the training regimens these guys endure in the off-season (again with the exception of Hampton whose training regimen definitely involves Pizza). Were the old guys tougher? Perhaps. But they were no where near as strong, big or as fast.

Here is a good article from the Trib about injuries in the NFL
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/specialnfl/s_291033.html

by SteelerBuddha on Dec 3, 2008 5:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm with Buddha

Playing football is not safe, but it is entertaining and profitable. Finding the balance between player health and quality of the game is difficult, thus all the convoluted rules. I think it would be good for the NFL to consider how it can improve the consistency of the convoluted rules, but I generally support them. Shots like the one on Boldin are pretty cheap and don’t add to the quality of the game. They make good ESPN highlight reels, but it don’t help your team out. Burying a QB after he’s thrown the ball is cheap, as is nailing the QB on a turnover. We can do without some of those hits.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Dec 3, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

The second part of my point was that the NFL needs to be creative in how it enforces these penalties. Maybe they could make cases where the penalty is very specific (lead with his helmet, left hit feet, etc) able to be challenged so we don’t let a huge penalty change the outcome of the game. Maybe they just need to add a few more officials on the field.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Dec 3, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Boldin

Only disagree on the boldin comment. Boldin got hit a split second before their two helmets collided, forcing his head to a different spot thus connecting with the other defender. I felt bad for that defender as he wasn’t attempting to play dirty the action around him influenced it.

by Chicago Steeler on Dec 4, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wish the Zebras and the NFL would just be consistent. That’s my beef.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Dec 3, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mention

the hypocrisy…but you are right on!

The “helmet to helmet” is an interesting topic. Again, I understand the rationale but imo it’s so hard to legislate. You take the biggest, fastest, meanest athletes and outfit them with state of the art helmets and then…tell them they can’t use them. As Mike Ditka said, “if you don’t want helmet to helmet hits go back to leather head gear.”

When I played there was a penalty for spearing. This was mostly called when a player led with his helmet into another players back. So, I understand the need for some type of flagrant personal foul for use of the helmet but I just think all helmet to helmet hits should not be a flag. I’m thinking of the DB, who has to make a spit second decision on a ball thrown, and he reacts…tries to make a play…and yes, his helmet hits the recivers helmet…his actions aren’t malicious…it’s not a flagrant thing…but according to the rules…flag.

IMO, it’s the refs job to determine if something is flagrant or excessive. Not to have a rule for every possible way a player may get injured.

More examples, QB gets hit with an arm across the face mask while a defensive player attempts to knock down a ball…I think that is a no call. Same situation but the defensive player continues on, with the ball clearly out of QB’s hand, and he picks the QB and body slams him…flagrant foul= flag.

Or, defensive lineman gets cut at los but gets to his knees and lunges at the QB on a 3 step drop…the only thing he can grab in that instant is the QB’s knees…he is just doing his job…he is already on the ground and trying to make a play…I think that is a no call. Same situation, but this time the D-lineman has time to get to his feet and chase the QB…the ball is thrown with time for the defensive guy to pull up but he instead lunges at the QB’s knees…flagrant foul=flag

Again, I don’t think the NFL can legislate every possible situation, although it appears they may try. It is the refs job to determine, on an individual, case by case basis if something is truly flagrant and excessive.

Are players getting injured less due to these rules? Is the game more safe? I don’t know.

by SteelerMike on Dec 3, 2008 6:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

#6

i heard somewhere that you can launch into a guy. That’s why the NFL didn’t fine Ryan Clark because that P guy who is the head official of the league said you are allowed to as long as you don’t lead with your head or something.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Dec 3, 2008 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ok

1 through 3, EVERYBODY has the no helmet to helmet rule, so that I understand. But the legs are kinda one of those things where its like if its all you can grab then you do what you gotta do. 3 pisses me off though.

4. Bullshit rule. Basically the TO rule. Shows you that if a high enough profile player gets injured in some way, we will ban that way forever. Absolutely stupid.

5. Good rule. I dont disagree. However I dont like flaggin “unintentional” H2H hits.

6. Not actually a rule. Its ok long as you dont lead with the head (see rule #5)

7. Its after the whistle. Stop hitting people.

8. Hes out of bounds, move. They will let a hit go if its really close, but you have to be TRYING to pull up. You dont have to use your arms. If you just run into someone without using your arms to toss them, the refs wont flag you.

The QB stuff is what irritates me. If you have a football in your hands, that makes you a ball carrier. And a ball carrier should be subject to all the same rules as a RB.

by Mechem on Dec 3, 2008 8:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs