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Coach firing mysteries

I was looking at two coach firings that kind of make me wonder:  Mike Shanahan and Eric Mangini.  Mike Shanahan?  I would have never in my wildest dreams even guessed that it would happen.  Mangini? I think this one is an indicator of a management flaw. 

Mike Shanahan - Ok he has won two Super Bowls.  He always has a team that competes.  His teams have a way of doing well regardless of who they lose to injury or free agency.  So he's only won one playoff game since Elway left.  I still think he's one of the best coaches in the league.  The only thing I can see would have been the cause is someone over him wanted him to relinquish some or all of his GM duties and stick to coaching.  Some of his decisions in the player acquisition category have left much to be desired.  Maurice Clarrett comes to mind, but hey not all gambles pay off.  In the end I think it will come out that he had some kind of disagreement with ownership about his role with the organization.

 

Eric Mangini - I think the Jest got impatient here and pulled the trigger.  Hey Cowher won 22 games in 3 years 1998-2000 and miss the playoffs each year.  One less than Mangini in the last 3 years.  They even had a meltdown in 1998 going from 7-4 to end up 7-9.  He used Stewart, Tomczak and Kent Graham as QB during this stretch.  They were one more loss in 1998 from being the only Steeler team since the 1970 merger to lose 10 games in back to back years.  Since previous 4 years  brought 2 home AFC championship upset losses and a Super Bowl loss sandwiches around a New England Divisional meltdown 28-3.  It could have been said (and actually was whispered in some parts) in 2000 that Cowher can't lead this team to a Super Bowl win.  He had his chance plenty of times.  If anything Mike Tannenbaum should have been fired for the huge amounts of money he threw at old players ( I need not expound I'm sure).  I think this firing is an outward appearance of a inward flaw of the Jets organization.  I also think that is a huge reason Cowher changed his mind.

 

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Class of the NFL

You will not find another organization that is ran better than what the Rooneys run here in Pittsburgh. It will be hard for Cowher to find a place where he will have an organization as strong as it was here. He knows it, thats why it will be hard for him to want to work for anyone else, once you find a good job – its hard to go to another one. Most of all of the other owners don’t care enough about their team like the Rooneys do (we’ll exempt the brothers here and you know who I mean) and they don’t know how to provide an environment that is conducive to winning like the Rooneys do. To me with their sucess over the last 38 years makes them the class of the NFL. To be able to do what they do even when they aren’t winning super bowls more years than not they have a decent team and are close or making the playoffs. Most people hate us because they are jealous. We don’t do it the flashy way, we do it the hard nose way and its consistent. They wish their team had the sucess we do. We are quite lucky and should support this franchise to the fullest i mean lets face it, it could be the Lions who owners don’t give a rats tale about the team or we could have Al Davis or Jerry Jones at the helm. So thats why I’m thankful for this franchise and what they represent, they know that stability is very important in football and that changing coaches is the last thing you should do to a team, very rarely does it produces immediate success. Although we saw it this year what makes it so remarkable is because you don’t see rookie QBs and rookie coaches do this well, prior to this year the highest win total by such a combination was 7 games. So they stick with their guy and we’ll see Mike Tomlin here for at least 10 years. To me this is the best job in the NFL not just because the fans are great and you get to coach some great players but because the owners actually give you a shot at winning. That is what it is all about that is why the Pittsburgh Steelers are the class of the NFL imho.

by tannofsteel84 on Dec 31, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actuallly

I think many people hate the Steelers because the fans say things like “most people hate us because they are jealous”.

by worldtrip on Jan 1, 2009 12:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

maybe but its hard to imagine anyone not wanting success for their team like we are spoiled with

by tannofsteel84 on Jan 1, 2009 7:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will say this about Shanahan: he has gotten away from what made his teams consistently good in the past couple years. They were always built around a top running game with solid defense. Now they have a good to star-in-the-making QB but awful defense and an inconsistent running game. I was surprised that they fired him too, but it makes sense. They’ve really struggled to make headway these past few years despite finding Cutler, and there’s no reason to think Shanahan is going to turn them into the powerhouse they could be any time soon. This is a job opening that could really suit Cowher if he felt like coming back.

As for Mangini, I think he’s a decent coach, but the Jets missed the playoffs after going on a HUGE sprending spree in the off season and having a very easy schedule. I agree that it does show you the difference between Pittsburgh with the Rooney’s and New York.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Dec 31, 2008 1:01 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mangini

yep that’s my point. They spent all that money and in my opinion a lotof it was wasteful and Mangini has to put it all into order. The GM should go too if they are going to fire Mangini.

"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)

by PixburghArn on Dec 31, 2008 3:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

running game

i feel bad for the guy because of the fact that they had like 15 different running backs in there this year, i bet no team has ever put as many players from one position on IR in one season. That would be hard to overcome

by indianasteelers on Jan 2, 2009 11:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Getting old.

I get really tired of the revolving door of coaches in sports. You have to win right away and keep winning to keep your job now days. It`s not just pro sports either, but college as well. It takes time to put all of the pieces together. Some coaches should be fired, like Wade Phillips.

by SteelerDomination on Dec 31, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

New Face Old Face

Good stuff here. HC and /or GM positions must work together and blame goes both ways if things don’t work out. Bill Parcells made the point many years ago that if “They want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.” For Shanahan, who had control over personnel, this may have back-fired on him. I can completely understand a coach’s desire to pick the players, afterall he is the guy they are going to fire. I heard a report that Bowen wanted his DC fired and Shanny refused, thus setting the stage for a showdown.

Mangini got fired for two reasons – 1) it’s NY and 2) Brett Favre. Firstly, the Jets can’t live with being second fiddle to the Giants much longer, so they are desperate. World Media HQ has to write and blab and gossip 24/7 and the pressure is on to make something happen. Favre was a short-sighted move and is going to haunt them for quite awhile. The Jets did spend big $$ in the off-season, but were these guys wanted by Mangini? We’ll never know for sure.

 I can’t hide my disdain for Favre and his jr high drama but like it or not, his hi-jinks cost Mangenius his job. Favre rediscovered his Mr Hyde just in time for the playoff run. His play didn’t help the Jets and his obvious subversions relating to Mangini’s style sealed the deal. The Jets are doubly stupid because now they have no coach and no QB. Favre is done and the Jets are going nowhere. Even if he does play next year – so what? He’s leading them to the SuperBowl… no way Then what? Favre is in love with his image and can’t deal with the adversity which inevitably comes. He only has time and energy for the fawning reporters and fame, but not the criticism or responsibilty with his position.

If I were the Jets owner, I would get Shanahan on the phone and get his ass down on Broadway ASAP. Shanny is going to work double time to show he still has it and taking the most high profile job available will suit him just fine. He’s itching right now to shove it in Bowen’s face and where better than in media central?

The Steelers have the best model for the head coach gig. Number One – the coach will be here next year, some of you players won’t be. That is where it all starts. If the players know the coach is on a short leash, why should they respect him and comply? They won’t. Jerry Jones is his own worst enemy. Every time he has a sit down with one of his derelict players he undermines his own coach’s position. Authority and accountability as delivered by the coach is what makes the whole team work or not work. No one goes to the VP for an answer if the President gives you an audience. Cowher got outcoached many times but the players knew he was in charge long term, they had to respect his position even if they thought he was wrong. The Steelers do not tolerate deadbeats, egomaniacs or malcontents and that is why they are always in contention.

"Franz" in NoCal

by franz on Dec 31, 2008 5:18 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bravo

Well Said.

"Whaddya' mean all the beer is gone..?

by OhioYinzer on Dec 31, 2008 9:10 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coaches

To me, the last thing you should resort to is a coaching change. It just isnt productive and logical. You need to show that you respect the coach as an owner, and then the team will be more apt to respect the coach also.

I think the bottom line is, your coach is the cornerstone of your team. He has to stay put. Remove him, and the whole jenga tower falls. And you back to square 1.

Shanahan shouldnt have been making all the personnel decisions though. Clearly did not suit him. At least, he should never have had the rights to pick defensive personnel. Offfensive I could understand.

Mangini I think was a mistake to fire. He is a good coach. But at the same time, you lost to freakin Seattle when a playoff spot was at stake. Stuff like that should never happen.

by Mechem on Jan 1, 2009 12:44 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My thoughts

     Head Coaches don’t coach in the same way that high school principals don’t teach, yet their role is still vital to the success of a larger endeavor . The head coach’s most important functions are that of a PR guy (dealing with the media), as a liaison between the players and the front office, and as the locker room manager (disciplinarian). This is why a lot of promising and talented coordinators (LeBeau, for instance) do not do well as head coaches- its just a different skill set. The head coach’s biggest impact on the football performance of his team is in setting a general tone for how the team approaches the game. Noll was dead on (and I paraphrase): the head coach makes his team win during the week. There is nothing a head coach can do on Sunday to make his team win.
     I think a lot of owners get caught up with hiring an x’s and o’s guru as a head coach and expect that it will translate into success. It won’t (Im looking at you, Norv Turner). The Rooneys have it right- you find the guy who is a teacher of the game and you’ll find the best head coach.

by OhioSteel on Jan 1, 2009 1:55 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So True

I agree with the responses here, particularly OhioSteel’s reference to the HC being the guy who sets the tone. Just like the CEO or the family patriarch, someone has to give shape and direction to the organization.

The ship’s Captain is rarely at the helm, but the ship gets where it is going – safely, on time and without losing it’s cargo. The HC is the guy who sets the standards for performance, effort, discipline and character. Without a good leader, the football team has no common bond nor common purpose. They can even be bonded through their mutual admiration or loathing of the head man, but without some respect/fear of his authority, the group will not tow the line. Everyone feels good if their teammates are equally miserable during bad times and equally elated during good times. That commonality of purpose and shared responsibility is instilled by a man, it is not in the water or naturally occuring in all individuals.

The thing I miss most being a head coach is the reduced time actually spent coaching. There are always other responsibilities that need attention besides what happens between the lines. I do know this, if I don’t lead my team someone else will. That someone may not be taking you down the same path which you desire to tread. Delegation and assigning responsibilities, with appropriate credit and blame doled out to all is part of the job. It’s not always fun but it is essential. Talent is required to win, but you can win with less talent if the other team has less coaching and leadership.

"Franz" in NoCal

by franz on Jan 1, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One thing about playcalling

I feel like the head coach is held to less responsiblity for playcalling. That we can just stick it to the respective coordinator. To me, it should be the HC’s job to help plan the plays and if something isnt working, to change it up.

I feel MT should be trying to do more to help our offense in some ways I guess.

by Mechem on Jan 1, 2009 9:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Generally true

On most teams the HC is not the play caller and depending on his background may not be involved much at all with O or D play calls.

You are right about what they should be doing – giving general direction and guidance during the week – strategically if not specifically. The tactics may be left to the OC but the HC should be involved with the game planning. An example would be a HC telling the OC to attack certain locations with the run because of the defensive scheme or relative personnel weakness, also minimizing the attack toward a certain player or area. The HC has to feel comfortable with the plan and try to avoid the big mistake while helping to maximize their execution.

Some OCs call the game a certain way because of what they want to do or show or what their philosophy is. Sometimes their view is highly skewed vs reality or results. Look at the 49ers – why did it take Singletary to change QBs? He’s a defensive guy, Martz is supposed to be the guru. Why didn’t Martz switch to Shaun Hill when O’Sullivan wasn’t getting it done?

I’ve had to overrule my coordinators on many issues where I thought the right answer was obvious but they had vastly different views. I think a head coach needs to have a small ego when it comes to sharing ideas and philosophies but enough self-confidence to decide what is right for the team regardless of your wishes, philosophy or prior plan. You have to do what works, not what you want it to look like. OCs in particular are in love with schemes and player types, sometimes whether it works or not!!

"Franz" in NoCal

by franz on Jan 2, 2009 2:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shanahan

if u noticed, denvers defense this year sucks. their offense is astonishing. Mike Shanahan is an offensive coach, and isnt that great on defennse. they know their offense is amazing so they wanna work on their defense. they fired Shanahan because they want a good defensive guy at head coach. thats y they r interviewing Steve Spagnola and Jimmy Johnson (Both Defensive Coordinaters 4 the Giants and Eagles)…they fired Shanahan not because they dont think hes good, actually they think hes amazing, but they need a defense, and Mike Shanahan wont be able to deliver one.

"The grass may be greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed"
-PsycoSalameh43

by PsycoSalameh on Jan 4, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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