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Steelers Cap Situation

Does anybody know an accurate resource for the Steelers cap situation with regards to every player counted on the cap? If so please let me know.

I would like to see where they spending their money position by position and how much space they should have.

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cap room
We'll go much more in depth as the offseason progresses but you can get a head start by checking out these to Steelers' cap sites, here and here.

The cap is an inexact science with all the bonuses but these guys have done a good job of getting as close as they can.

"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 5, 2008 7:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Gold
This is good stuff.

by _ET_ on Feb 5, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cap
Thanks...NoLimit at burghsports guy does a fine job.

You are correct to say the numbers aren't 100% correct.  However, I believe they are as good as can be with available data.

I keep my eyes open online and have a couple 'sources.'

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Madden
I usually base all of my knowledge off of Madden Franchise Mode..

by smashmouthsteel on Feb 5, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Madden
I've always wondered how accurate those were, but regardless I've always referred to it from time to time. Unfortunately I haven't talked myself into an Xbox 360 yet so I don't have '08.
"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 6, 2008 8:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

madden
Madden is a good game...the only video game I still play.  HOwever, the cap numbers aren't so accurate.

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is some great stuff
I can guess a little, but can anyone pinpoint what Roster, Workout, LTBE and Deion mean?  Also, am I correct in thinking that if the Steelers cut a guy, they save the base salary but the prorated SB still counts against the cap?  Thanks.

by maryrose on Feb 5, 2008 3:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

cap
roster bonus - A form of a LTBE (likely to be earned).  It is what it seems.  A bonus for being on the roster.  These bonus have a specific date, if the player is on the roster on that date, he gets the bonus.  Typically, the roster bonuses are paid on the first day of the league year (March 2ish - the beginning of March).

Workout bonus - A form of a LTBE.  It is what it seems.  A bonus based on a player working out.  All players receive money to workout - per the CBA between the NFL and NFLPA.  However, some players have additional bonus money included into their contracts.

LTBE - Likely to Be Earned.  Incentive-tye bonuses (could be an individual-based incentive or a team-based incentive) based on an incentive.  The CBA clearly defines what bonuses are LTBE and what are NLTBE (Not Likely To Be Earned).  For the salary cap purposes, incentives deemed LTBE count towards that year salary cap.  Incentive bonuses deemd NLTBE do not count towards that years salary cap.  HOWEVER, all money paid to a player eventually counts toward the cap.  Therefore, if a player in 2007 had a LTBE bonus (threfore, it counted against the 2007 cap) and this bonus was NOT earned the team gets a credit at the end of that year.  ON the flip side, if a bonus was a NLTBE, but was earned would result in a salary cap minus at the the end of the year.  This is why all teams have an adjusted salary cap...the adjustment is the difference between LTBE that were NOT earned and NLTBE bonuses that were earned (atleast, this is a very basic explanation...the CBA is not basic).

Deion - Is something )named after Deion Sander, that prevents teams from backloading contracts with the anticipation of an uncapped year.  Deion charges only apply when there might be an uncapped year.  Prior to the 2006 CBA extension, the was the possibility of an uncapped year.  The Deion Rule prevents teams from structuring contracts with more than a 30% increase in salary cap value...from one year to the next.  AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY WHEN AN UNCAPPED YEAR IS A POSSIBLITIY.  Teams had to adjust players' salary cap values (with a Deion credit) to be in compliance with the Deion Rule.  Now, the teams are getting the credits back.  http://www.steelersalarycap.com/player/BenRoethlisberger.htm   Ben had to increase his cap value...now those increases are being given back..hence the negative Deion Charge.  Again, the CBA is a bit confusing, this is just a quick explanation.

If a player is cut, their base salaries do not count.  (there are exceptions...)  If a player is cut, any money already paid to that player still counts...any money not paid does not count (atleast most of the time - not always).  Typically, base salaries are paid in 17 equal "checks."  Starting the first week of the season...16 weeks in a season plus one bye week.

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have another question about the cap
Do you have to account for incentives?  It seems to me like you need to factor in all the max incentives and still be under the cap.  Otherwise, you could be over, right?  

by maryrose on Feb 5, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

incentives
No.  LTBE count against the cap.  NLTBE do not count.  A teams salary cap status includes all LTBE, but no NLTBE.  (again, eventually, any money paid to a player counts against the cap...if an incentive is earned, it will count against the cap at some point in time.  One must remember, the salary cap is nothing more than an accounting system.)

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry folks, another question...
This cap stuff intrigues me...Is there any source that would give us the same info for the Browns, Bengals and Ravens?  Thanks.

by maryrose on Feb 5, 2008 6:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

cap
It sounds like you had just as many questions as I did. The only bonus that I know for sure what it is, is the roster bonus. That is money that you get as long as you're on the roster at a certain point in the year.

Incentives are more tricky. I have heard/read that whether incentives count against the cap has something to do with whether they are considered 'reasonably attainable.' I have no idea how or who determines 'reasonably attainable' though.

That page has a link to a Bengals page and you might be to search for other teams.

I might have to see if one of these guys would mind giving us a short 'cap education' sometime this offseason. I know it's something that I know very little about and the more I learn the more I realize I didn't know.

"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 6, 2008 8:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reasonably attainable
I saw some talk about this after SB XL on the Steelers official page bulletin board.  Apparently, reasonably attainable incentives count against the current year's cap.  They are incentives like making the playoffs, playing a certain number of snaps, etc.  Those incentives that aren't reasonably attainable would be things like winning the Super Bowl (if you're a second year QB, for example).  Those incentives will count against the following year's cap.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 6, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

other teams
I have a link to other teams web sites...I do need to double check some of the links...people change their address.

A fellow cap guru does keep track of all teams salary cap...he has them for all to see.  They are all excel spreadsheets that need downloaded.

http://www.ianwhetstone.com/football/cap.html

Oh, he is a huge steeler fan as well.  We email info to each other wit regards to cap data.

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not informed enough
To decipher these.  I really liked Golden's chart from the original post.  If anyone knows where to get others that look like that, please let me know.  All I want is Browns, Bengals and Ravens.

Thanks SalaryCap for all your help here.

by maryrose on Feb 7, 2008 9:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How teams play the system
I just read where the Browns were under cap last year so they offered their long-snapper $8M if he played in 85 percent of the team's special teams plays.  That was deemed "reasonably attainable" by both the players' association and the NFL office, so it was approved.

The player and the team both knew it was never going to happen, but since it was "reasonably attainable" it counted toward the 2007 cap.

Now the kicker. Since it didn't happen and the Browns didn't spend that money in 07, they get to carry it into 2008.  While the NFL cap this season is $116M, the Browns get to tack on another $8M to make up for what they didn't spend and knew they weren't going to.

Of course all teams know this little trick and you can only use it if you are under cap in the first place.

by maryrose on Feb 6, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

lopo
Yeah, there is a little loop hole in the CBA that permits teams to push unused cap space from one year to the next.

Basically, per the CBA, any incentive type bonus given to a player during the season automatically counts as a LTBE.  

So the Steelers could sign Ben to a new contract in week two of the season.  The new contract could be exactly the same as his old one (with regards to his base salaries and such), but have one new incentive...say if Ben gets 89 special teams tackles he gets $14 million.  Now, Ben doesn't play special teams and would never earn that bonus.  However, IF THE STEELERS HAD $14 MILLION OF CAP SPACE (the key to this loop-hole), Ben doesn't earn the LTBE; therefore, it counts a +$14million towards the Steelers adjustment for the next year's salary cap.

The owner wanted to fix the loophole during the 2006 CBA talks.  The NFLPA, did not want it fixed.  Apparently, the NFLPA won with regards to the loop-hole.

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks SalaryCap
I still don't understand how Ben playing 89 plays on special teams and the Browns long snapper playing 85 percent of special teams, could possibly be deemed LTBE, when everyone know it is NLTBE.  If Ben playing 89 plays on special teams is LTBE, what on earth could possibly be NLTBE??

by maryrose on Feb 7, 2008 8:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the loophole
"Basically, per the CBA, any incentive type bonus given to a player during the season automatically counts as a LTBE." - steelerssalarycap

So it doesn't matter how crazy the incentive is, it's considered LTBE. Thats the genius of it.

"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 7, 2008 9:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

loop
I suppose I wasn't so clear.

As I stated earlier, the CBA has specific rules to determine if an incentive-type bonus is LTBE or NLTBE (even for rookies - for rookies it is based primarily on draft position).

So for 2008 salary cap, the Steelers look at who has incentive-type of bonuses in 2008.  They then look at 2007 stats to determine if that bonus is LTBE or NLTBE.

This is a pretty fair system.  However, the problem the NFL/NFLPA encountered was 'what to do with contracts signed during the actual season.'  How can a team determine if the bonus is LTBE or NLTBE...look at the part of the year to date stats??..still look at last years' stats????  

They decided to just say ANY incentive-type bonus included in a contract signed during the season is automatically deemed LTBE (for that season...the seasons after the regular rules appy).

One must keep in mind -  the team has to have the available salary cap space to use the loophole....the bonus is LTBE; therefore counts towards the cap.  So the team needs to have the available cap space for the bonus.

Teams normally get a player to sign a new contract in December...the contract is identical to that players previous contract, but has an incentive for an amount close to the teams available salary cap space.

So to complete the loophole, at the end of the season (included in each teams LTBE/NLTBE salary cap adjustment), the teams with these bogus LTBE get a 'refund' towards their next years cap.

The Steelers do not use this loophole; however, the Steelers are typically very close to the salary cap limit.

 

by steelersalarycap on Feb 7, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So is it safe to conclude...
That Brian Pontbriand signed his $8M incentive for playing in 85% of the Browns special teams plays during the season when no one questions the validity of such nonsense???

by maryrose on Feb 7, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes
And that should give the Browns an extra 8 million over the cap in 2008. Could come in handy considering they have to sign Anderson and Jamal Lewis.
"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 7, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nice site
I was checking my sites stats and saw a some links from here...decided to give it alook.  

Good stuff.  It is now one on my favorites list, so I'll be reading along.  I don't post much...I do enjoy talking salry cap, though.

I am working on my steelers 2008 offseason projection article...I've written one the past several years...last years is still on my site under the articles link.  

I do not normally write about the salary cap rules...the CBA is bit confusing.  It is difficult to easily explain.  Most "rules" have exceptions.

Reading the 2007 projectin article may give someone a better understanding.

by steelersalarycap on Feb 6, 2008 11:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

SteelersSalaryCap
I look forward to reading your article. Be sure to let the community know when it is up.

by _ET_ on Feb 7, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for jumping in
Your expertise would be a welcome addition to say the least.
"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 7, 2008 8:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Be glad we're not in the Cardinals shoes
I was searching around today and found this story. Basically they're in a tight spot because Larry Fitzgerald's incentive laden rookie contract is biting them in the ass in 2008 with a 16.5 million dollar cap hit.
"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft

by cgolden on Feb 8, 2008 12:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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