Is The Cardinals' Edgerrin James Hall Of Fame Material?
As many of you know, cgolden, a frequent commentor and contributor here at BTSC, has branched out to work on his fantastic Arizona Cardinals site. When I saw this post he made over at Revenge of the Birds, I asked him to post it over here as well for several reasons. One, it's an interesting piece during the slower days of the offseason. Two, it highlights some of his great work. And three, I have a follow-up piece coming about Jerome Bettis' Hall Of Fame credentials. This post will be a nice framework for the discussion and a useful point of reference when we discuss Bettis.
If you're a Cardinals fan and stumbled on this site looking for AZ news, head on over to Revenge of the Birds for solid Cards' coverage 365 days a year. We're pleased to still have cgolden around some here, but Cards fans should be thrilled his primary focus is over there. Cheers.
-Blitzburgh-
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Ok, so we all know that if Edge were to retire today, he most certainly would never be elected to the Hall of Fame. The bigger question though is how close is he. I was surprised when I looked at the career stats for running backs and saw how high James was in most of the categories. Granted stats alone won't tell you the whole story but it's definitely a starting point.
With that being said, we'll look at where he is heading into the 2008, where he could be after the 2008 season, and where he could be after 2009 when he'll be a free agent. In order to set the table, I'll assume that James will stay healthy and be as productive as he's been during his two seasons in Arizona meaning he'll get 1,200 yards rushing, 200 yards receiving and 6 total touchdowns in 2008. Just for the sake of being conservative based on his age and the possibility of the Cardinals attempting to groom a replacement, lets assume that he gets only 1,000 yards rushing, 100 yards receiving and 4 total touchdowns. Those might be overly optimistic projections in the eyes of some but an improved and stable offensive line and appropriate play calling should make those numbers easily attainable.
First, ranking thirteenth on the all-time rushing list is impressive enough and if memory serves every back ahead of him on that list who is eligible is already in the Hall of Fame. If we add 1,200 yards to that total, Edge would jump to seventh on the list and if we project two seasons out, Edge would rank 5th with just over 1,380 yards rushing. He'd also be within arms reach of Curtis Martin at fourth who would be just under 300 yards ahead of him. Obviously the Chargers' LaDainian Tomlinson is going to pass Edge at some point in the future, but other than LT the next back who has any realistic shot of jumping into the top ten is Washington's Clinton Portis. He's currently has 7,715 yards at 26 years old. Still though, it's very conceivable that James could rank in the top 5 in terms of rushing yards before his career ends and that alone might be enough to get him in.
Edge is obviously helped out in this department the gaudy receiving stats that he put up in Indy, but he's still an above average back out of the backfield. If we project James to get about 1,400 yards from scrimmage during 2008, he would jump to 10th on the all-time list, and just inches (well actually 26 yards) from the former Cowboy, Tony Dorsett, in ninth. If we look past the 2009 season and project another 1,100 yards, Edge would then rank eighth all time, less than 100 yards behind former Jet and Patriot, Curtis Martin. He'd also be less than 300 yards behind former Raider and Chief Marcus Allen for 6th all-time.
Obviously Edge's career probably won't end after the 2009 season, but it's likely that he'll have to become part of a two back system (something he's never done) or be regulated to back-up duty entirely. By these projections, he would be right on the heels of Curtis Martin in both rushing yards and total yards from scrimmage so whether or not Martin gets in could directly effect Edge if he can't pass him. Edge and Martin both have similar touchdown totals as well with Martin currently having 13 more rushing and 12 more total. The big picture says Edge, if he can produce two more productive seasons, should be on the door step of the Hall of Fame. He'd rank in the top 5 all-time in yards rushing and top 10 in total yards from scrimmage. That totaled with his four Pro Bowls and 1 All-Pro team should be enough to get his foot in the door. What do you guys think, is he a Hall of Famer in your mind?
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Nice work Golden
I think you make a pretty good case for James on a purely statistical basis. However, I would feel even better if the Cards were to make some noise in terms of playoff contention. James has kinda fallen beneath the radar since he arrived in Arizona. And though it should not make a difference in terms of his fundamental qualifications for the HOF, it could make a big difference in how long (ballots) it may take until he gets in. Publicity counts.
Can we expect more of these Bird, uh…droppings in the future? ;-)
by RickVa on May 14, 2008 4:27 PM EDT 0 recs
lol
Dont worry, it wont be a 50/50 steelers/cards site even if we do love golden :)
I’ll be emailing a bunch of you guys about something in the near future.
by Blitzburgh on
May 14, 2008 4:37 PM EDT
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Looking forward to reading the Bettis post
Like I told cgolden on his original post over at the Revenge of the Birds, I love these kinds of posts. I guess that’s obvious considering my two main page contributions so far. :)
by WolfpackSteelersFan on May 14, 2008 5:16 PM EDT 0 recs
you're not the only one
I really liked your two stories Wolfpack, can’t wait to see what the next installment holds, whether it’s RBs or WRs or QB or whatever.
by cgolden on
May 14, 2008 10:36 PM EDT
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Thanks
I guess I better get moving, then. :) Work’s keeping me from doing as much as I would, but I want to do more.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
May 15, 2008 10:54 AM EDT
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Edge
Amazing analysis – and you can not argue with numbers. But to me Edge never has struck me as a premier, HOF back. He had some amazing years – and there was the injury. To me in many instances he seems like a system back – a good system back – but still one that derived the majority of his numbers in an unbelievable offensive attack. If he can produce over the next couple of years I’ll probably rethink my position.
by smashmouthsteel on May 14, 2008 5:57 PM EDT 0 recs
thats how i feel
I dont even really recall him being that great when in Indy. My mind immediately shifts to the Peyton manning arial attack. But those numbers are no joke.
by Blitzburgh on
May 14, 2008 6:19 PM EDT
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I agree.
Edge has nice numbers, but he was never the face the the Colts Off. It has always been Manning’s team. I never think wow Edge had a great game and won that one for the Colts back in his prime. I am sure that’s not true, but coming from the highlight era instead of reading box scores, the 1st thing to come to mind is how Manning lead the team back to a close win after their def let them down. This may not be fair to Edge, but when you think of Dallas with Troy, Emmit, and Irvin there were games that Emmit carried that team on his back. Curtis Martin was the Jets entire off on some bad teams. Bettis was the face of the of the Steeler’s off. If you are not a Steeler fan or fantasy football guy, the Steelers was just Bettis with the power running, and a great Steeler Def, and the Cowher of course. When I think HOF players that’s what runs though my mind with out any number study.
by SteelBuckeye on
May 14, 2008 6:36 PM EDT
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Face of the franchise
True, Edge wasn’t the face of the Colts, but had he stayed and won a SB with Payton, he would be linked with Payton and Marvin Harrison in the same way that Troy, Emmitt, and Irvin are.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
May 14, 2008 7:11 PM EDT
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Yep
You are right if he would have been around one more year he would have the SB ring. I think it would really improve his HOF chances, but personally I wouldn’t view them like the trio of Troy, Emmit, and Irvin. Maybe it is the mutli Super Bowls wins?? Or maybe it’s just the Colts don’t really scare me outside of the dome in winter, and you have to be able to run the ball in winter.
by SteelBuckeye on
May 14, 2008 7:56 PM EDT
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well said Buckeye
I remember Martin and obviously Bettis for carrying a team, but I don’t remember Edge ever doing that. I sure it happened, but I can’t remember a particular stretch of the season or important game.
by cgolden on
May 14, 2008 10:42 PM EDT
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His problem
Other than the fact that Indy broke through and won the year he left, I think his problem is that he was putting up Pro Bowl numbers his first 3-4 years, but he’s been above average at best since then. His first few years, he was putting up 1400+ yard seasons.
Actually, I just looked it up, and his first two years were awesome (1553 and 1709 yards), then he got hurt and looked washed up for a couple years, before rebounding with a couple more 1500 + yard seasons. Yeah, if he had stayed in Indy, been on the SB team (probably ran behind a better line), he would have a better case. He would certainly still be more at the forefront of more people’s minds. As the Colts are one of the marquis games every week, the announcers would be talking about him being the league’s leading active rusher for a couple of years, and everyone would witness him passing all of these great names. Unfortunately, he’s more likely to be a blurb on the post game shows, unless the Cardinals really become a force in the NFL within a couple years.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
May 14, 2008 6:36 PM EDT
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Edge
His first two years were nothing short of amazing, but I think the next two seasons, IMO, were a result of a tremendous workload the first two seasons. I may be too big of a believer in the “Curse of 370” but I think it bit Edge early in his career.
by cgolden on
May 14, 2008 10:45 PM EDT
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Yeah
It was really looking like he would be the next great RB. But, a couple down years, and everyone kind of forgot about him.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
May 15, 2008 10:55 AM EDT
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HOF
It is going to depend on the rest of his career. Surely if he has passed Curtis Martin and taken over the 4th spot in history he will be in the conversation…as Martin will be. It’s the ring he could have won in 06 at Indy (that he didn’t) which would have put him over the top. That’s why I think Bettis is in. Numbers count. Leadership does too.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
by 5020 on May 14, 2008 8:02 PM EDT 0 recs
OF COURSE HES HOF MATERIAL
My opinion may be bias as I am a huge colts fan. I have watched every colts game since ‘98. James was the most explosive running back in the league during his first two seasons. He was on pace for another fantastic year before the injury. Sure it took the guy a couple years to get it together again, but when he did, he may have been even better. He was the most intriguing running back to watch since Barry Sanders. He didn’t have that forward, back, side to side stuff. He had incredible patience. A subtle stutter step, and a hop and ran incredibly low to the ground, and just ducked, weaved and spun under defenders. Absolutely beautiful to watch. Who said he never carried the colts? Between rushes and catches, the guy nearly had 30 touches a game. Did people forget, in his first seven seasons, he averaged 123 yrds from scrimmage per game? Which by the way, was the highest in league history. The guy hardly ever had a bad game. He always moved the chains. He almost always led the league in carries over 5 and 10 yards. Not to mention, he was also the best blocker on the team. People say he was just a product of the indianapolis system. Well how come Addai or Rhodes can’t carry that stretch play in the same way? Sure the last couple years in Arizona have been rough, but I don’t think Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson could have run behind that line. I’m optimistic for the 2008 season. I think they’ve made some good adjustments. I think he will look like the James of old
by dljop on May 16, 2008 1:53 PM EDT 0 recs
Agreed
I think most of us agree that he should be, but may be hurt by voters perceptions, more than reality.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
May 16, 2008 2:14 PM EDT
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