Timmons Time

by SteelerBuddha on Jun 11, 2008 2:21 AM EDT

Ed Bouchette wrote a column for today's PG that seems to indicate that Timmons is likely to replace Foote as a starter at the Mack ILB spot - then maybe move to take Farriors role at the Buck next year.

Foote himself seems to see it as an invetability and Bouchette acknowledges that history is on Timmons side, as only two Steelers first rounders in the past twenty or so years have not had starting jobs during their first year (Jamain Stephens and Huey Richardson)

Ofcourse the 80's were a different story (anyone rember good ol' Rhino Reinstra)

I know there has been some talk of this on the forum, but I am curious to see if people think this is a sure thing. We saw precious little of Timmons last year. Its hard to believe he goes from nothing to starter in so little time, on the other hand you don't draft a guy 15 unless you believe he is the real deal and then some.

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timmons

i hope he’s in there, but I hope he’s in there b/c he’s the best guy for that spot not because he was a first round pick

by schnifin on Jun 11, 2008 2:22 PM EDT 0 recs

He has to win the job on merit

I doubt that anyone in the coaching staff is so bullheaded or insecure that they feel they have to start a player just because he was a high draft pick. Particularly in the case of Timmons who seems like a fairly versatile athlete, and could probably fill in at any position from defensive end to strong safety in a pinch. Not to mention his considerable special teams contributions.

by robert ethan on Jun 11, 2008 2:24 PM EDT 0 recs

If Timmons takes over inside, it will be interesting to compare him to Jerod Mayo..

...who the Pats drafted 10th overall this year. They are the same age, about the same size, and it appears they may be playing the same position. Awhile back someone mentioned that they were disappointed in Timmons as a first roung pick, and I said if they hadn’t taken him where they did in the 2007 draft, they would likely have had to use an even higher pick in 2008 to get a comparable player. Coming out of high school, Timmons was rated ahead of Mayo. LT played as a true freshman behind Ernie Sims, while Mayo redshirted. In the 2006 season, both were outside backers, and had very similar statistical seasons, but I beleive that Timmons was still rated higher because he had no injury history. In 2007 Mayo moved to the middle for Tennessee, while Timmons learned the position from the sidelines in Pittsburgh. But if Timmons performs as well or better than Mayo (or #9 overall pick Keith Rivers), then the draft pick was well spent. He is a bit younger than both of those 2008 draft picks.

by robert ethan on Jun 11, 2008 2:42 PM EDT 0 recs

We haven’t agreed on much, but I’m with you on this one. When Mayo was drafted and I read up on him, I thought he sounded like Timmons. Of course since NE drafted him, everybody loved the pick.

by Cols714 on Jun 11, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Timmons pick

I was praying they would just draft Joe Staley last year, but we got Timmons. I like Timmons and think he’ll be a productive guy, but I don’t think he was one of our better picks. Staley impressed as a starting RT and is going to move to his natural LT position next year. The world if we had drafted Joe Staley:

Starks battles Staley (not Colon) for the RT spot. Either Staley wins the starting spot outright (the coaches don’t like Starks anyway), or Starks wins it, but Staley later plays LT when Smith goes down. Colon takes snaps at center and guard. Simmons looks good, but with Colon and Kemo also looking good, he is not signed to a new deal. Mahan still sucks (I can’t fix everything). 2008 offseason: Simmons, Faneca, and Starks all leave (instead on sucking up a bunch of money). Everyone panics, except Kevin Colbert. The new line looks like: Smith, Kemo, Mahan, Colon, Staley. After a few sub-par games, the line gels and improves. In 2009, Smith leaves, Staley takes over LT, Stapleton takes over center, Mahan is cut, and we have to find a RT either in the 2008 or 2009 draft, or through FA. We now have a very good and ridiculously cheap line with a possibly average RT.

Meanwhile, everything on defense is pretty much the same, only we need to look for an ILB to eventually take over for Foote and Farrior. 2009 turns out to be a great year for ILB’s, and we trade a couple picks (we’ll have 3 decent comp picks at least) to move up and get Laurinitis, Maualuga, Beckwith, or Cushing. The deep class gives us a good value at the position we need (DeMeco Ryans anyone?), and the player we draft may or may not turn out to be better than Timmons, but will be at least comparable.

Why didn’t you listen to me Colbert?

by BadMaafala on Jun 11, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

Colon is not a guard

I know this is purely hypothetical, but if I have to keep repeating it, I will. Colon is not a guard. Nothing the Steelers have done with guy says they think he’s a guard. I know I know, a lot of people keep saying he’d be a good guard. But the Steelers continue to run him out there at RT. Until they actually move him over, let’s stop speculating that Colon will be a guard in 2008.

by Cols714 on Jun 11, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

I was speculating he’d have been a guard in 2007 if we drafted another tackle, not predicting anything in the real world. I’m not saying that he’ll be a guard in 2008.

by BadMaafala on Jun 11, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Staley starting in San Fran does not mean he would have started in Pittsburgh..

Willie Colon had a year and a half on the PS before he took over from Starks. Not to say that Joe isn’t a great young player at the position, but I don’t see a huge difference between he and Tony Hills who they drafted this year. Both are rangy, athletic, former tight ends who converted to the O line. Without the late season injury, Hills might have been in that group of linemen taken in the second half of the first round this spring.

Timmons is two years younger than Staley, and I don’t think the team drafted him thinking they would get immediate contribution. I think they saw him as a future inside linebacker from the get go and were prepared to spend a year making the conversion and getting some special team contributions. The delayed gratification will be worth it, the inside linebackers are directly involved in almost every play, and I would argue that it is more important to have a special athlete at that position than on the line.

by robert ethan on Jun 11, 2008 5:40 PM EDT 0 recs

Correction

Colon started his first game as a rookie in 2006 towards the end of the season.

by jason97673 on Jun 11, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Staley vs. Hills

Well, Staley can play LT, for one. The knock on Staley was whether he was tough enough (he’s a converted TE), which he proved playing well at RT for the 49ers. According to NFL’s draft site, Hills may not be tough enough to play RT, quick enough to play LT, and his best position might be guard, were he can “wall off” defenders instead of driving them off the ball. I know a lot of people are high on Hills’ potential, which we may or may not see, but these were not things anyone was saying about Staley. He was a converted TE with good reach, good drill times, and exceptionally low body fat. Oh, and he had less of an injury history, and his hero was Alan Faneca. Not bad for a late first rounder (or even mid). In my mind, he had fewer questions than anyone this year other than Long (who is still a more natural RT than LT). I don’t know what the drawback was.

My comment concedes that he may or may not have started as a rookie, but that he had a shot since he was up against Starks, who was coming off a terrible year and was benched anyway, and Colon, who is not natural fit at RT. Even if he didn’t start, he would have gotten the chance at LT when Smith went down, and he would have taken over at RT for 2008. I’m not arguing that Staley is a better player than Timmons (even though it’s looking that way), but that Staley would have been a better fit on our team than Timmons.

by BadMaafala on Jun 12, 2008 1:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

I suppose it depends on which scouting reports you read..

From what I’ve been able to gather, Staley and Hills sound VERY, VERY, similar coming out of college. In terms of size, style, and background. Staley had the advantage of finishing his draft year healthy and being able to work out for the scouts, which shot his stock up the boards in the post season prior to the draft. Hills had the advantage of playing his entire 4 seasons at a MUCH HIGHER LEVEL as a left tackle. There is a considerable difference in status between being a 4 year left tackle at Texas, versus spending three years moving from position the position at Central Michigan. Hills spent his first two seasons backing up Jon Scott, but there is no shame in that since Scott is currently starting in the NFL.. Staley was a TE coming out of high school as well, but Hills was the TOP RATED TE in the nation at the age of 17, before he tore up his knee. He overcame that to the point of being FIRST TEAM ALL AMERICAN left tackle by his senior year at Texas. Staley may be a better athlete (arguably), but his body of work does not compare to Hills as a draft pick.

by robert ethan on Jun 12, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, all those professional scouts really missed out on that one. Yes, the two are similar in that they are converted TE’s, but Hills was converted because he had a catastrophic knee injury which affected what he could do. Hills is a backup RT (like Scott will be this year, btw), and Staley is a good to excellent LT.

You can take my word for it or not, but the fact is, the 49ers knowingly traded a high to mid 2008 first rounder for Staley, while the Steelers traded down in the 4th round and were still able to pick Hills there.

And his injury last year wasn’t that bad, so don’t blame his fall on that.

by BadMaafala on Jun 12, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think you're getting ahead of yourself, Bad..

Staley has one year as a starter at RT on a horrible team, Hills has yet to play a down, but you seem to have both of their careers all mapped out already.

Prior to his late season injury, Hills was rated as a second rounder, as near as I could tell. Prior to his post season combine and pro day workouts, so was Staley a year earlier. One guy got hurt and couldn’t work out ( Heath Miller in 2005) for the scouts, the other guy was healthy and worked out better than expected for the scouts. That is the difference.

Hills knee injury affected his mobility to some extent, but the conversion from TE to LT was more the result of adding 40 pounds during his recupperation period. Any player who is 6-5, 285, while still in his teens is going to be moved to a line position. Tony was still running sub 5 second 40s when he was a junior at Texas, so it isn’t like the guy was limping around with a cane. Eric Winston ripped up his knee the year before he was drafted, fell to the third round in 2006, but is starting and doing every bit as well as Staley at this point.

by robert ethan on Jun 13, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

...the irony is, given the Timmons/Mayo comparisons..

..that the pick the 49ers traded to draft Staley was used to draft Mayo by the Pats. Lots of careers to compare going forward…:)

by robert ethan on Jun 13, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s not so much that I have their careers mapped out as I have a certain amount of trust in scout’s evaluations of players. Staley was drafted in the 1st round and has exceeded expectations, while Hills was drafted late in the fourth. Based on that alone, it doesn’t seem very likely that the two will have similar careers. You hear about draft day (or UDFA) steals all the time, but first and second rounders have a much higher success rate than late rounders. Add to the draft position the discrepancy on credible scouting sites like NFL’s combine/draft pages, and I don’t see how you could have more than a faint hope that they will be similar players.

Ultimately, you’re right; we’ll just have to watch their careers play out. But I’d give you pretty good odds that Staley is going to have a much more successful career.

by BadMaafala on Jun 13, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, "chances are"...

...but the Steeler’s last two team MVPs (and Pro Bowlers) were both free agents with hundreds of players drafted ahead of them. I liken Hills situation to Eric Winston in a lot of ways. Both were top of the class tight ends coming out of high school. Both moved to LT in college. Both became Walter Camp First Team All Americans at the position. Both sustained horrific knee injuries prior to their draft year that affected their draft stock. Winston lasted into the third round in 2006, and two years later he is a team captain in Houston, and one of the best young LT in the league. Probably a more valuable property than Steeler first rounder Santonio Holmes at this point. I was screaming for the Steelers to grab Winston from the middle of the second round on, but I guess they didn’t hear me. But maybe there is hope for redemption with Hills, who lasted to the end of the fourth round with the added burden of the broken leg. He isn’t as good a prospect as Eric Winston coming out, but I think he is as good a prospect as Joe Staley.

by robert ethan on Jun 13, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

So if the "chances are"

that Staley will have a more successful career than Hills, then you’re saying I’m right? That’s great that Hills “could be as good as” Eric Winston, and every WR from the 7th “could be as good as” Marques Colston, but chances are against it. Said in another way: if “chances are” that Staley will be better than Hills, how is Hills the same quality of prospect as him?

by BadMaafala on Jun 19, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

In agreement

with RE that Timmons must win the job on merit. I knew when we drafted him it would be at least into his second year before he played so I am not concerned yet. I think he has all the tools. I think he will beat out Foote on merit and athletic ability. Foote will be good depth especially if they lose 51 to FA.
Regarding comments above on who we should have taken in last years draft, how about if we drafted Dan Marino instead of Gabe Rivera etc. Hindsight is 20/20. If LT becomes the next LT will you still prefer Staley?

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Jun 11, 2008 5:46 PM EDT 0 recs

Only time will tell

I personally liked the pick. He was a machine at FSU from what i saw, and plus hes really young. Its not going to be easy to win that job though. Foote may not be spectacular but hes very consistent as well as durable. I cant remember the last time i saw him miss a game. But I see Timmons getting the job for a few reasons. He was our first round pick, and nobody likes to see a 1st rounder ride the pine. His athleticism is the key, and the main reason he was drafted so high. He can be that sideline to sideline ball hawking type of linebacker. I never really saw him being that rush end they originally drafted him to be (replacing Porter). I like him alot more in the middle anyways, and i think thats the best spot for him to make plays.

I think he gets the job but Foote still gets in there a good bit. The following year Farriors time will be up as a Steeler, and Foote will be back in the starting line up. Timmons will give the defense alot more sideline to sideline speed, which will make our scheme that much better.

by blitzburg on Jun 11, 2008 6:02 PM EDT 0 recs