The Never Ending Question of the Steelers Offensive Line
by Blitzburgh
on Jun 16, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
A week or so ago, cgolden discussed the bevy of Steelers players that will be free agents at the end of the 2008 season.That list includes our most proven and capable offensive lineman, Marvel Smith. That sound familiar? It should, as Ed Bouchette recently wrote, because we were in the exact same situation last offseason when dealing with the Alan Faneca contract situation.
Like they did with Faneca last year, the Steelers have not offered an extension to Marvel Smith, who will turn 30 in a couple of months.
"To me, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen," said Smith, who has been a starter since he was the team's second-round draft choice in 2000. "It's not something I can worry about, for the most part. I love football. Any opportunity I get to play, whether it's in the offseason or not, that's what I plan on doing."
Smith, who doesn't seem to have any plans to hold-out or make a big fuss of his contract situation, has expressed his desire to be in Pittsburgh however.
"Yeah, it's frustrating, but I deal with it differently," Smith said, comparing his situation to Faneca's last year. "If I can't control it, I don't worry about it. It's not like I can give myself a contract..."
"I love Pittsburgh. I miss Pittsburgh when I'm not here in the offseason. It took a while to get used to Pittsburgh, coming from California, but now I love it."
*****************
Hmm. I'd have to go through the archives, but I can't seem to recall many of us thinking Smith would be re-upped. The Steelers just don't hand out big contracts to guys in their 30s, particularly ones with potentially tricky back issues. However, if Marvel Smith is not in the mix in 2009 and beyond, what would our situation at the tackle position be?
Well, at least in 2009, it might be dicey. Let's say Max Starks is signed to a long-term deal. That would give us him, then one giant question mark at the other tackle slot. Will Tony Hills be far enough along to be dependable? What about Jason Capizzi? If Max Starks has a good camp and season, and if he and Smith stay healthy, Willie Colon could potentially go most if not all of 2008 having not played any tackle. Would we dare slide him back out there again in 2009?
The problem is this team is close to being set for multiple Super Bowl runs. We're not there -quite- yet, but the dilemma is that our defense may be in the best shape to contend in 2008-2010, while our offense may need several years to stabilize the offensive line situation, while breaking in Mendenhall and Limas Sweed.
So, what do you think? Should we re-sign Marvel Smith? If not, sell me on a long-term plan that does not include him. I definitely agree in principal with the organization's decision not to franchise players, but it sure seems like 2009 might be a good time to potentially franchise Marvel Smith for a year.
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Don't be surprised...
...if Marvel Smith is resigned to a long term deal. He isn’t that old, especially when talking about OTs and the idea of letting a top 10 LT walk next year doesn’t seem to be a smart move. Faneca, in my opinion, was beginning to weaken. He wasn’t as dominant as in past years and wasn’t worth the money the Jets paid him. Smith, on the other hand, is still very dominant when healthy. If he shows this summer that he is fully healed from his back issues, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see a contract before week 1.
As for the situation next year if he isn’t resigned…Max Starks at LT and Tony Hills at RT isn’t a bad situation for the future. Most of us agree that Colon is better Guard material than Tackle material, so he may end up being the top swing man for the next year or two, or eventually take Kendall Simmons’ place. Max has shown great promise on the left side, which is his natural side, and Tony Hills could be the steal of the draft he can stay healthy and motivated. Don’t count this team, or O-line, out over the next couple of years. The O-line has gotten much younger over the last year or two, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
by manosteel9423 on Jun 16, 2008 11:28 AM EDT 0 recs
Linemen reach their prime a little later, I think.
A 30 year old lineman is probably the equivalent of a 25 year old running back in terms of
peak effectiveness. They rely on strength and experience more than speed or pure athleticism. Individual talent is overrated at the position as well. Most blocking assignments are a group effort, and the line is only as strong as it’s weakest link. Generally one or two of the starters will be missing/stuggling in any given game, so having 7 or 8 capable experienced players is better than having 3 or 4 stars and 3 or 4 mediocre players. As it sits, I think the Steelers fit into that former category. There isn’t one outstanding talent, with Smith probably being the closest, but as a group they have a good blend of starting experience without excessive age.
by robert ethan on Jun 16, 2008 11:48 AM EDT 0 recs
The Steelers should be really concerned
In my opinion this year. You build offenses with lines, if your line isn’t good, your offense will struggle. The Steelers offensive line was less than stellar last year, and they lost Faneca, and really didn’t do ANYTHING to improve it in the offseason. They should have focused on it in the draft, and didn’t. Poor Ben is going to have a hell of a time getting off passes this year.
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by MrNFL on Jun 16, 2008 12:18 PM EDT 0 recs
Roethlisberger had the best season of his career last year..
..as a passer. Rated second overall in the league behind a guy who set all time records at the position. Willie Parker was leading the league in rushing before he broke his leg.
If “You build offenses with lines”, how do you explain all the teams in the league who presumably had better lines but less successful offenses than the Steelers? Do Rex Grossman and Cedric Benson have a terrible line? Chad Pennington? Tavares Jackson? Kyle Boller? I think a team is better off using their premium draft picks on the skill positions and formulating the line with mid round picks over the course of several seasons. It’s easier to take a project at a line postion, (provided he has size and at least some athletic ability), and coach him into a starting NFL player than it is to with a quarterback, running back, or wide receiver.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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The Bears line is awful, they were all absurdly old and slow.. The Ravens line was almost all rookies, helping them struggle. The Vikings line is good, that’s a product of crappy WR and QB play, I’ll grant you. And the Jets line was below average last year.
Roethlisberger had a great season, he’s a great QB. But he got sacked 47 times (Tied for 7th worst in the league, AND the Steelers threw fewer passes than everyone minus the Vikings) and it would’ve been more if he wasn’t so good at running out of the pocket. Parker had more carries than anyone else in the league if he gets 5 more (which he certainly would’ve gotten) and yet he averaged 4.1 a run, good for 28th in the league. If they had a halfway decent line, to go with that great D and good skill players, they wouldn’t have been bounced by the Jaguars.
The Steelers are set pretty much everywhere else, and if they would’ve fixed the line, they’d be set. But they lost their best lineman in Faneca, and how do they fix it in the draft? They spend their first and 2nd round picks and positions they ALREADY are deep at. They drafted one guy in the middle, and signed Hartwig, who’s barely better than Mahan.
It’s awfully hard for a running back to gain yards if their is no openings, and it’s hard for a QB to find targets if he’s on his back. The Steelers are still good enough to be a playoff team, but with that line, don’t expect to hoist the Lombardi Trophy this season.
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by MrNFL on
Jun 16, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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Well, Parker doesn't support my hypothesis very well..
..since he was an undrafted free agent, but Roethlisberger was a first round pick, along with a couple of the receivers who helped him have a good passing season. The team only has one first rounder a year, and in the case of the Steelers, generally later in the draft. So, you have to pick your poison. The Jets have 4 first round picks on their O line with Alan Faneca, but do you think they are going to have a great offensive season with Kellen Clemens at the controls? I’d rather go with Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes,Mendenhall, Sweed, etc. and a bunch of third and fourth round picks on the line.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 2:18 PM EDT
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I think the Jets will be much improved with Faneca added, and because they have a long line. They’ll be a lot better this year offensively.
I just don’t understand why when your biggest need is BY FAR offensive line, why you draft a RB and a WR when you don’t need either. They didn’t fix their biggest issue, and Mendenhall and Sweed won’t do much.
Yes, they would be better off IMO short term and long term with Brown. As the article already discussed, Marvel Smith may not even be around next year. RB was NOT a need AT ALL, not to mention that Mendenhall has character issues. And the Steelers don’t pass all that much as is, Sweed in the slot still won’t see that much action, and if they wanted a WR to develop, you can always find WR’s late in the draft. And if Brown is REALLY that unappealing, then trade up to get a better guy, or trade down to get him, get another later pick which you can use to get a WR that is just as good as Sweed.
Lineman aren’t flashy, but you win championships in the trenches with offensive and defensive lines. With that offensive line, they won’t win a championship.
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by MrNFL on
Jun 16, 2008 2:36 PM EDT
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If you look at this draft specifically...
After Mendenhall, at #23 overall, the only two linemen taken before the third round were Duane Brown, a tackle who was considered a reach, and Chico Rachal, a very average college guard. Do you think the Steelers would be better off, short term or long term, with Brown or Rachal than Mendenhall? The same situation existed (with different alternatives) in round two with Limas Sweed as their pick. If you criticize the team for “neglecting the line” at the draft, it’s really hard to point out viable alternatives once you look closely at the players available.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 2:28 PM EDT
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Then you're comparing..
...Mendenhall AND Sweed vs. someone like Branden Albert or Gosder Cherilus. Still doesn’t equate well.
Tony Hills is the same size, same age, with similar measureables to Albert, but he played four years of LT at Texas and was an All American, while Albert played JuCo and a couple seasons at guard in D1. But where he was drafted, Albert almost has to become a good NFL left tackle to justify the selection. He has only played two games, as an injury replacement, of LT so far in his career.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
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Cherilus is slightly bigger and slightly older than Hills, and played just one season at LT in college, where the best he could manage was Second Team All ACC as a senior. Tony was First Team All Big 12 and First Team All American despite the fact that he missed 3 games of the season with a broken leg.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 2:49 PM EDT
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Well, I’m not high as high on Mendenhall, or skill position players from TX, as the people on this site. And as for this year and next, when everything else might be SB caliber, I’d say an infusion of 1st round OL talent actually is worth more than Rashard and Sweed.
As a project you make a compelling case for Hills. But he won’t help right away, like one of those 1st round guys.
In general, I don’t think there’s a higher success rate of getting valuable Line guys in the lower part of the draft, rather than getting valuable skill guys.
by kwoog on
Jun 16, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
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Hills
People seem to forget he was 1st team All American after Junior year. If not for injury, he could have been two time All American and a top 15 pick. Provided the injury’s not an issue (and it shoul;dnt be, since its not a knee issue), I don’t see why HIlls shouldn’t be a very, very good pro within a couple of year’s time.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 16, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
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I think he just made 1st A.A. as a senior..
..but the fact that he missed most of one game, and two others entirely, at the end of the year and still managed the honor is quite impressive. I’ve read reports from the end of October 2007, saying that “many scouts are coming away from Austin with a first round grade on Hills”. Then he broke his leg 2 weeks later. So, while he may not have gotten any better in the past 7 months, I don’t think he got any worse, either. Tony probably lost 1 full round in the draft due to the broken leg, and 2 full rounds due to lingering concerns about his knee. But the knee injury is over 5 years old now, prior to his ever stepping on campus at the U. of T. The thing I like about Hills is that he still looks like he could play tight end. He still looks lean and fast for a 310 pounder. Out of high school he was 6-5, 260, with 4.7 speed, and the top rated TE prospect in the country at the time.
by robert ethan on
Jun 16, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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first round guys
As many on the site have mentioned there’s little chance of any O-Tackles starting this year over Smith and Starks. Granted future years we’ll need that depth but that’s why Hills being a project is alright for now.
by Chicago Steeler on
Jun 16, 2008 4:41 PM EDT
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You can make a good case that Mendenhall and Sweed will do more..
..to keep Roethlisberger healthy over the next few years than any lineman they could have drafted.
Rashard has all the makings of a running back who can carry an offense on his back if he has to. If the team is ahead, or the defense is choking off Big Ben’s passing, he can just drop back and hand the ball to Mendenhall, or hit him with little swing passes out of the backfeild.
Meanwhile, Sweed has the makings of the big reliable red zone target who should develop a rapport over the years with Ben that will allow the Steeler QB to get rid of the ball a second or two sooner in confidence that if it is close Limas will come down with it or prevent a pick at least.
Those two factors may be more useful in the long haul than the extra couple of seconds a top O lineman might allow him in the pocket/
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 11:19 PM EDT
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there is
a very high success rate for getting line guys in rounds other than the first (and second for that matter). most years there aren’t many linemen taken in the first rounds because you can get decent players later, who will develop. just because the Browns had Joe Thomas come in and be great right away, linemen like that are EXTREMELY rare. and as far as trading up…..you only trade up if there is a player who you think will become a pro-bowl caliber player. the steelers have done this before for Polamalu & Holmes. provided the price has to be right as well. the best we could do with the 23rd is probably move somewhere into the middle of the round, say, 15 or so, and at that point any linemen worth having was already gone! why would the Steelers trade up? they are going to be good enough to be in contention this year, why give away picks and mortgage part of the future when the team is already fairly well stacked—it’s precisely this line of thinking why the Steelers are consistently good by the way. i was amazed at how dumb some of the teams were in the first round this year. because there was a rush on linemen a guy like Duane Brown got drafted in the 1st! he shouldn’t have been in the 2nd even but GMs panic.
by TheMostViolentTeam on
Jun 17, 2008 10:22 AM EDT
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You trade up for two reasons: One, you are already young enough at some positions to give up a pick for a player that will drastically help you out this year (as opposed to what Mendenhall and Sweed provide). And two, you’re not good enough to be in contention, when you lose the best player of the weekest link in your team.
I’m not saying point two is necessarily true, and obviously the Steelers disagree with it. Some others don’t. Time will tell. As a Browns fan, I’m exstatic with your draft.
by kwoog on
Jun 17, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
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...in the nick of time, kwoog..
With the posse and the hanging rope hot on your heels.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 2:16 PM EDT
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Marvel
is one of the better LTs in the league, albeit underrated. he was fantastic early in the year, it was the Denver game his back really started to bother him (and it showed) and from then on he was playing with pain and that was when our O-line troubles really started. I expect if he shows to be 100% in training camp…...which is LIKELY he will get a deal in training camp. i know most back injuries are lingering, but the kind he was dealing with isn’t, the surgery cleaned up the back, good as (actually better), than new. then sign Starks to a deal to be our RT, have some weight clauses in the contract to keep his performance optimum. Colon will then have to decide if he wants to slide inside and play guard or walk as a FA when his current deal is up.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Jun 16, 2008 12:47 PM EDT 0 recs
Wait for Pads
Ed Bouchette talked about Tomlin making no decisions on starters until the players start hitting. i’m sure the same is true of Smith’s contract. He won’t be extended until the front office sees him in some live action. If his back does seem improved I could see us locking him up for 5 more years at a good contract level, but if his agent demands top 5 tackle money he’ll walk.
by Chicago Steeler on Jun 16, 2008 1:00 PM EDT 0 recs
Actually
I’ve been expressing this exact opinion. If Marvel proves himself healthy, I think the Steelers will try to extend him 3-5 years. Which only makes sense considering he was having a good year last year until his back destroyed him.
And once again, Colon will most likely be a tackle this year as the Steelers have shown no interest in moving him.
by Cols714 on Jun 16, 2008 1:04 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm sure the Steelers will make an offer to Smith..
..commensurate with his age and the risk of long term injury. Why not? If the guy is healthy all year and effective, the offer will be higher and longer term. If he struggles, the offer will be lower and shorter term, or none will be given in an extreme situation. They should know better than anyone what he is worth, they get to see him work every day and have their team doctors examine him whenever they please.
by robert ethan on Jun 16, 2008 1:10 PM EDT 0 recs
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