Steelers 53-Man Roster - Part 3
Another couple of weeks have passed, meaning two more weeks of OTAs in the books. Now, the wait for training camp is on. We won't know much more about the shakedown of the roster until late July, so let's take another stab at the 53 man roster, in the wake of OTAs coming to an end. You can see our last crack at predicting the roster here.
OFFENSE:
Quarterbacks (3): Ben Roethlisberger, Charlie Batch, Dennis Dixon
Running Backs (5): Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Mewelde Moore, Gary Russell, Carey Davis
Wide Receivers (5): Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Limas Sweed, Nate Wasington, Dallas Baker
Tight Ends (3): Heath Miller, Matt Spaeth, Jonathan Dekker
Offensive Linemen (9): Marvel Smith, Kendall Simmons, Justin Hartwig, Chris Kemoeatu, Willie Colon, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Tony Hills, Jason Capizzi
DEFENSE:
Defensive Linemen (7): Brett Keisel, Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith, Kyle Clement, Chris Hoke, Travis Kirschke, Ryan McBean
Linebackers (9): James Harrison, Larry Foote, James Farrior, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Keyaron Fox, Andre Frazier, Mike Humpal, Bruce Davis
Defensive Backs (9): Ike Taylor, Bryant McFadden, DeShea Townsend, William Gay, Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, Ryan Mundy, Anthony Smith, Travis Williams, Tyrone Carter
Specialists (3): Greg Warren, Jeff Reed, Daniel Sepulveda
Say Hello To:
Dennis Dixon - Dixon has had some solid OTA sessions, and as was mentioned by Jim Wexell, the Steelers aren't the type to stash away players. And as you guys mentioned in the previous 53-man roster post, perhaps it'd be more wise to have Dixon out there, dressed, and accountable for the game-plan, at least to some degree, week in and week out.
Dallas Baker - At this point, there have just been too many reports singing Baker's praises to not consider him the front-runner for the 5th (and final?) WR spot on this roster. This story, written just over a week ago, had me thinking that Baker has the right attitude in his second year, and may just be one of those late bloomers that is all-too-often written off because he didn't max out before the age of 21-24.
Kyle Clement - Dale Lolley recently wrote that Kyle Clement got some extra work in after practice with Aaron Smith. Smith was working with him on hand placement and how to get out of one's stance quickly and strongly. Not a bad mentor to have. We'll see what happens when the pads go on, but for now Clement seems to be on a fast-track to making this roster. There sure is an opening at his position for him to seize the opportunity.
Andre Frazier - Frazier takes over Arnold Harrison's role in this version of the Steelers 53 man roster. As you guys astutely noted, Frazier provides more on special teams and Harrison really has not proven himself to be more than just 'another guy'.
Travis Williams - Here's the shocker of the session. Williams, an undrafted free agent rookie CB out of East Carolina, impressed Lolley this past week. Here's what he noted:
Another player who has caught my eye is undrafted cornerback Travis Williams from East Carolina.
Williams looks to have good playmaking ability and can run. He's just 5-9, 180, though, so he is lacking some size.
Not much, I know, but here's my thinking. If Dallas Baker, or for that matter, if Micah Rucker even, makes this team, we potentially have a void in the return game. Santonio Holmes has been fielding some punts this offseason, but he was shaky when called upon his rookie season, and despite the fact that I believe you should put your best weapons on the field at all times, the fact of the matter is that we can not afford to lose Santonio Holmes to injury. Furthermore, we brought in Mewelde Moore to field punts.
Back to Williams. Because of his small size (5'9"), it's easy to understand why he was overlooked in this year's draft. You just don't invest much in a CB that heighth, but that doesn't mean there aren't some playmakers in the large crop of shifty, speedy, athletic, and undersized DBs and WRs. Mr. Devin Hester is but a mere 5'11", 185-190 pounds himself.
With Clark apparently looking fit so far this offseason (read Lolley's notes again if you missed it), Troy Polamalu adhering to his personal workout regiment in Southern California, I think the coaching staff might decide that carrying an extra safety in a guy like Mike Lorello is unecessary. Instead, why not add an CB to learn behind the intense battles surely to take place between BMac and Deshea? And if he can potentially earn a spot returning kicks (which could be a huge question mark if the coaching staff shy away from putting Mendenhall back there) and punts, the move might make all the more sense.
Say Goodbye To:
Anthony McFarland - for now, we're not players in the Booger game. We didn't even show up to his private workout on June 4th.
Micah Rucker - We'll see what happens when the pads go on, but for now, Baker's got the leg up.
Sean Mahan - We've talked about it ad nauseum, but if the organization feels Stapleton, Hartwig, Simmons, and Kemoeatu are all ready to go, there's really no need in my opinion to incur the somewhat hefty pricetag to keep Mahan on the payroll. It still blows my mind that the coaches are not moving Colon inside to guard. If Starks and Smith are playing, with Hills, Essex, Capizzi as potential backups, why keep Colon as the #3 T option. Might we be posturing to tamper with his market value, which is the hypothesis I offered in December of last season for how and why Starks was managed last year? If the team hopes to keep Marvel Smith around, surely there won't be that much money to keep a guy like Colon around, unless he's underutilized this year, and only able to be judged by his 2007 season, which needless to say, left plenty to be desired, despite some positives here and there. Anyway, I think Mahan's too expensive to keep around. He's not as bad as many make him out to be. But he's not solid enough to incur less salary cap and potentially find hidden talent by giving someone else an opportunity.
Mike Lorello - I offered my probably crazy thought process in the section about Travis Williams. Even if Williams doesn't make the team, which odds say he won't, Lorello's still probably not going to make it. Tyrone Carter is a better option, and he's not all that expensive for what he provides as a veteran.
Arnold Harrison - I wouldn't be surprised if we see Harrison at some point this year on the Steelers. I'm not sure if we'd put him on the practice squad or not, but my guess is he'd be first in line to assume a roster spot in the event of an injury to anyone of the LBs on the team.
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agreement Blitz. Glad to read Clement is getting snaps with the second string, and some instruction from the master, Aaron Smith. I just had a gut feeling about him when we signed him, and if it plays out how we hope it does, he could be a real boost in keeping our D-line fresh with some rotational/situational play. I thought the same thing when I read about Travis Williams, if he shows some return ability he can make the roster. as for Mahan, what can be said that we haven’t said 100 times….i don’t know if he’ll get cut but if he somehow makes the team this year he definitely will be cut next year. i suppose it’s possible he improves alot, since he is still young, but i don’t think technique was his biggest problem so much as his functional strength, which is where Stapleton and Hartwig both enjoy big advantages over him. maybe we are continuing to give him first-team snaps now and some in training camp to try salvage a last-ditch effort to trade him for a low-round pick or something next year, and if we can’t, then we’ll cut him. we do seem to have a glut of center options (albeit no GREAT ones) right now. but my thoughts on the C is that Hartwig starts this year and if Stapleton continues improving he becomes the Man after that, with Hartwig falling victim to a young player for the 2nd time in his career, despite solid play.
by TheMostViolentTeam on
Jun 17, 2008 10:54 AM EDT
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can't argue too much with that one
Baker has been getting ton’s of love so far this off season and if the season started today he’d be a lock for the #5 spot.
If Clement can truly be a player, it would go a long way to shoring the DL.
Bye Bye Mahan, I’ll think about you everytime I’m laying on my back. hehe
by cgolden on
Jun 17, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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Clement
I sure do hope that Clement turns into this year’s steal. If he can help out at DE, that will go a long way towards helping us solidify our DL depth. I am glad to hear that he is doing well enough to get some notice.
Still wonder about that Marion kid from Wake Forest, though. I’m looking forward to him in pre-season. I hope he, or this Williams kid, can step up and take the KR position for us.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Jun 17, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
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I think Mahan stays. The Steelers won’t go into the season with only Hartwig and an untested Stapleton at center. I think that they should, especially if it means they get to keep someone else at a different position. I just don’t see the Steelers cutting their crappy FA signing of last year.
by Cols714 on
Jun 17, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
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we'll see
You’re probably right. Mahan, depsite just being ok, is experienced and that may be enough to keep him around. But then again, so is Hartwig. If Simmons and Chris K look good, I don’t see the value in having Mahan as a reserve at center. If Hartwig goes down, then we go with Stapleton. That might be dicey, but we’d be saving money, seeing what we have in him, and frankly, our season might be in trouble if we suffer a serious injury to a starter in the first place. Just a thought.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 17, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
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Center
Didn’t they do just that last year? Who was Mahan’s backup? After he beat out Okobi, Okobi was cut, IIRC.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Jun 17, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
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Philip was taken from the practice squad by another team.
Oakland, maybe?
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 7:31 PM EDT
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I would argue for Lorello..
Unless Ryan Mundy is better than he appears on paper, I would think they want to bring in some fresh legs at the safety spot. Carter is into his 30s now, and when he was called upon last season, wasn’t really up to the task. They didn’t bring any other safeties as free agents this year, although I suppose they could grab someone off the waiver wire later in the summer. Also Legursky over Capizzi, and possibly Stapleton. Doug seems to have the quality that Tomlin mentioned was lacking. Size and strength at the interior line positions.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
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legursky
He’s on my radar b/c of all the praise you’re throwing his way. If I had a ‘last two off’ Legursky would be on it.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 17, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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Rucker, C. Boyd, RS in, T. Carter, J. Dekker out
Blitz, you know Datruth can’t let an opportunity past without commenting on roster spots. Here goes:
- I really like the roster that you put forth with a couple of tweaks. I would put M. Rucker in there in place of Baker just because of upside. Baker is 6’3, but he’s slow. I just like Rucker’s upside so much more. I think he’s going to be like G. Russell was this past year—give him a redshirt year and he’s going to be ready to play with the big boys. This spot also could come down to who is the best special teams player (throw Trannon into that mix as well). Since Rucker has a rep for being physical and has a chip on his shoulder for not being drafted, I like his chances.
- The only way Mahan makes another year is if he shows his performance this past year was due to aliens inhabitating his body (thus describing why he ended up on the ground so much) or the Steelers don’t want to take any type of cap hit. I think they’ll be fine with depth at the center spot (Hartwig, Stapleton, K. Simmons (emergency situation only) and Legursky on the practice squad ready to be activated if needed). I just don’t think you keep throwing good money after bad if you find out someone can’t play. Like K. Colbert has said before, “Either get’em good, or get’em gone.”
- It’s been awhile since the Steelers kept 7 DL. This could be the year to do it if the talent warrants it. I actually wouldn’t mind going with 2 youngsters over Kirschke and Eason if they show they are worthy. That way, come Decembers, the youngsters (if they are getting spot minutes all along) will have their feet wet and be ready to contribute rather than having a beat-up Kirschke running on an empty tank down the stretch or an Eason that can’t play at all. No one has mentioned DL Scott Paxson in this roster talk at all, but he has a shot to stick.
- The Steelers liked TE C. Boyd when he was here a couple of years ago. They wanted to put him on the practice squad, but the Redskins actually signed him to their regular season roster. I think he sticks over Dekker, who I can’t remember doing anything but dropping passes in the preseason during the last few years.
- I have no problem keeping T. Williams if he is your best returner of all the candidates. I do if he isn’t, even though he plays a position that you can never have enough bodies at. That might make good sense if he is talented because he’d probably be a better special teams gunner and tackler than any of the wide receiver returners trying to land a spot, since DB’s have to actually hit someone during practice. It’d also save the Steelers a roster spot and enable them to keep 7 DLs. Yeah, Blitz, you could very well be on to something.
- As mentioned earlier, does anyone think DL Scott Paxson from Penn State has a chance of making this squad? He’s had 2 years to get bigger and stronger on the practice squad and has made some spot plays during preseason games, which is more than what I can say for McBean and Eason. He should be pretty close to 300 lbs. now, which is a good weight for a 3-4 DL. I think LeBeau now knows that in order for B. Keisel to be most effective, he’s probably going to have to give him more of a blow during games. There is no excuse for someone to lead the team in pressures 2 years in a row but hardly ever gets a sack.
- I like the OL shakeout from B. I don’t think Capizzi is going anywhere. I like he and Hills as your backups for the future. For some reason, I think M. Smith will be sticking around. If you have your $100M quarterback, you might as well keep your LT that you won a Super Bowl with, as long as he proves he is healthy. Sign him to a 3 to 4 year extension. By that time, you’ll know if either Hills or Capizzi can be a long-term answer to either tackle spot. If M. Starks doesn’t sign a contract extension during training camp, he won’t be with the team next year. I also predict that the Steelers won’t lose both M. Smith and M. Starks next year. One of them will be staying. We just don’ t know which one right now.
Your thoughts?
by datruth4life on
Jun 17, 2008 5:35 PM EDT
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I thought Boyd was an intriguing prospect..
6-8 with good hands. If he added the weight he needed to become a more effective blocker, he could be a factor. As far as Rucker is concerned, he had two very different 40 times clocked at a small workout with just a handful of scouts in attendance, so I wouldn’t put too much faith in his “great speed”. It could be a “fast” thumb on a stopwatch just as easily. Paxson is in a similar situation to Lorello. Both have been around the team for a couple of years waiting for an opening. Athletically he is better than both McBean and Eason for the defensive end position, I think. Faster, anyway.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 7:29 PM EDT
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I agree
that either Starks or M. Smith stays, and we don’t know which one yet.
Is Paxson gonna be big enough or strong enough to be a 3-4 end?
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on
Jun 18, 2008 8:06 AM EDT
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Mahan has 5 years NFL experience at the age of 27.
Four seasons as a starter, at two different positions. You don’t kick a guy like that to the curb too quickly. Sean was new to the team and the system last year, his position coach was new, his OC was new, the head coach was new. You can’t judge a player that young on one bad season with all of those factors in play. At worst he would be the top backup at both center and guard, and the chances of the same three players all starting the full season at those positions is not great.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 7:22 PM EDT
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Mahan
Being in a new situation isn’t an excuse for being on your back for half the game. The guy isn’t strong enough to play center, period, end of story. If he isn’t good enough to start, he is paid to much to be a back up.
And his four years of starting experience proves that we shouldn’t expect this guy to all of a sudden become a respectable player.
by cgolden on
Jun 18, 2008 8:06 AM EDT
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But a good point nonetheless
If Tomlin decides that he won’t fire Arians or the special teams coach (losing the name right now) after a season where their decision making was shaky at best, chances are he’ll want to give Mahan another shot to earn a starting spot. I want him gone, but it’s still a knee-jerk reaction to how often he got dominated last year. Tomlin will give him the off-season and preseason to get his game together and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him starting the first 2 preseason games.
I don’t know if he makes it into the season, but my gut reaction based on Tomlin so far is that he makes it.
by Chicago Steeler on
Jun 18, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
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You're Missing The Point on Rucker
Do you know many people in the NFL that are 6’6’’, 221-lbs and can run a 4.47 40-yard dash. Even if you split the difference between those two times (he ran a 4.57 that day as well), you are still talking about someone running a 4.52, which is still pretty good for that size. And the fact that he bench-pressed 225-lbs 20 times shows that he has the strength to get off the press if he wants to play physically, which scouts have said that he does.
Just think about this, this is someone who has played at a small school as well as some Division I (at Minnesotta). Two to 3 years from now, he’s going to be bigger, stronger and faster and be a beast. Your top 3 WRs by that time will be Santonio, Sweed and Rucker. On the other hand, Baker runs a 4.72 on a good day. On top of that, he’s not a physical receiver. Can’t wait to see what happens when the pads go on.
by datruth4life on
Jun 17, 2008 10:23 PM EDT
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Rucker was in D1 for 2 seasons..
...hardly got on the feild at all, then bailed out. Minnesota was not a team noted for it’s WR, either.
Baker played for 4 seasons at a top D1 school in a conference noted for an abundance of superior athletes at skill positions. He may not run as fast on the track as Rucker, but his football background is much more impressive.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 11:04 PM EDT
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According to Wikipedia...
Baker ran 4.47 and 4.52 on his pro day workout. So, if you base Rucker’s speed on his pro day numbers, he actually was a tick slower than Tallass “Shake ‘N” Baker, the Touchdown Maker.
by robert ethan on
Jun 18, 2008 1:24 AM EDT
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Baker
UF has had many highly touted WRs that disappointed. Name one that has become a household name.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on
Jun 18, 2008 9:17 AM EDT
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Scott Paxson's 2006 Pro Day Numbers
Scott Paxton DT Paxson (6-4 3/8, 292) ran his 40s in 4.89 and 4.90. Had a 30½-inch vertical jump, 9-foot-3, 4.49 short shuttle, 7.36 three-cone drill, and did 21 reps.
I think one of the things Paxton definitely needed to work on was his strength. He’s had a couple of years on the practice squad to work on that. It also lets you know a little bit about the strength of Kyle Clement, who put up 37 bench presses during his Pro Day. Don’t be surprised if both Paxson and Clements stick on this roster.
by datruth4life on
Jun 17, 2008 10:36 PM EDT
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Yeah, I think those were pro day numbers, but still they are impressive..
As i recall, his pro day measurables were better than his teammate Tamba Hali, even though Hali was about 20 pounds lighter.
by robert ethan on
Jun 17, 2008 11:06 PM EDT
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Sounds like a Kiesel clone
Hope that he brings it on special teams, otherwise I don’t think he makes it. Remember, Kiesel was a monster on ST for years as Kimo’s back-up.
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on
Jun 18, 2008 8:11 AM EDT
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I'm starting to think that the Steelers may run the ball more this season
They are really loaded at the RB position, and if they don’t have maximum confidence in the O line, they can rotate their backs in the lineup and run the ball 60% of the time. Saves wear and tear on Roethlisberger. There is a lot more depth at the RB position than QB.
by robert ethan on
Jun 18, 2008 1:34 AM EDT
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agreed
I think the ration was 55:45 last year, though got to admit not sure which way. I think it was run:pass, but it’s too late to confirm right now.
Regardless, I think we can bump FWP to the 235-280 carrie range, give Mendenhall 150 carries + let him return kicks, throw a little less, save our defense a touch, and still really be a dynamic and opportunistic offense. I can’t wait to see FWP and Mendenhall tear it up.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 18, 2008 2:58 AM EDT
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Actual numbers...
Steelers ran the ball 511 times out of 1000 (exactly) plays from scrimmage. So, 51.1% in favor of the running game. Maybe it goes up to 55-45 this season. Roethlisberger may not be thrilled, as he likes to gunsling, but the best seasons from the team perspective, occured when he threw the ball less.
by robert ethan on
Jun 18, 2008 4:13 PM EDT
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nice thanks
For checking that. I was close, but I think a 55:45 ratio might be better for us this year, particuarly if we’re still playing on that grass at Heinz Field in ‘08, which we will be.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 18, 2008 4:43 PM EDT
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Rucker vs. D. Baker
Guys, check out the numbers of these two from their Pro Days:
Dallas Baker, 6’3’’, 208, 40 yard dash: 4.53 ( at the combine), 4.60 (Pro Day); Vertical Jump: 36 inches; Broad Jump: 10 feet, 9 inches; Bench Reps: (no reported numbers); 3-cone drill: 6.69; 20-yard dash: 2.72; 10-yard dash: 1.55.
Micah Rucker (Pro Day at University of Illinois), 6-5, 217 lbs, ran the 40 yard dash in 4.57 and 4.47; had a 39-inch vertical jump; Broad jump: 11-foot, 3-inch long jump; 4.57 short shuttle; 6.90 cone drill; 20 reps in the bench press.
Who do you guys think will get that 5th WR spot?
by datruth4life on
Jun 18, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
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I'm torn
Having not seen either play. I would say that Baker has the edge for perhaps superficial reasons: better rapport with Big Ben as of now. But, when the pads come on, Rucker can potentially separate himself enough to earn the spot by being physical, confident and by playing hard and fast.
Anytime you’re high on a player ‘truth, I heed notice. I’ll be keeping an eye on him this year and in the future, much like I have with Capizzi after you touted him waaaay back when last offseason. Turns out it took Capizzi an extra year to look like he may be ready to breakthrough. I wonder if the same won’t be the case for Rucker, but we’ll see.
by Blitzburgh on
Jun 18, 2008 12:23 PM EDT
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As far as Baker’s forty time, wouldn’t everyone agree that you put more stock in the combine forty times than Pro Days. Aren’t Pro Day times done strictly with stop watches while the Combine times are electronically timed?
Given that Baker’s got a years worth of ‘seasoning’ under his belt and that he’s been spectacular so far in OTA’s and minicamp, I’d give the edge to him. Like Blitz said, once the pads go one I could see that all change.
Also, I’m fairly certain that they cut slip Rucker through to the p-squad for a season but I’m not so sure about Baker (plus he might not want to come back for a second consecutive season given the progress that he’s made).
by cgolden on
Jun 18, 2008 12:49 PM EDT
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Baker vs. Rucker
I think I’d take Baker. Rucker will need a year to develop, and we don’t have a roster spot for him. Other years, we might have kept him on potential (like Russell), but we have a very deep WR group this year. We’re obviously keeping Sweed, and no one has questioned us keeping Washington, so the top 4 are pretty set. However, we don’t have a returner in that group unless you count Holmes. Baker and possibly Rucker are looking like young Nate Washington’s (honestly, we’d be lucky if they are that good), in that they have some upside but aren’t especially well rounded and aren’t getting many looks at returning kicks. We could keep Baker to take over Washington’s spot next year, but he’s not going to dress until someone gets injured. Rucker’s even more raw than him, and he’d have to prove not that he has more potential, but that he will be more ready to contribute in 2009 than Baker, which would be difficult. Rucker has a chance to last on the PS, and if he does, he’ll have a leg up on the last WR spot for 2009. If not, we’re not hurting for WR’s.
I think the door is still open for a guy like Reid (or Marion or Bloom) to make this roster as a KR, but he’s got to show that he’s reliable with the ball and ready to go right away as a returner. Reid may have more potential as a WR than some, but he’s got to be the best returner right now if he wants to make the roster.
by BadMaafala on
Jun 18, 2008 1:28 PM EDT
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People are bound to get hurt as well,
It isn’t likely that the 53 best players on the team will all be healthy and ready to go on the cutdown date. So there would probably be a couple extra spots available for the guys in the grey area.
by robert ethan on
Jun 18, 2008 4:18 PM EDT
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