ESPN Readers vote Terry Bradshaw best Steeler ever

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 2:04 PM EDT Comment 39 comments

I was just checking out some finals on ESPN.com, when I stumbled upon this page, showing how voters chose the best players of each NFL franchise's history. I was actually just going to throw it up as a FanShot, but then I stumbled on this excellent entry at Hogs Haven discussing the Redskins' choice in this very poll, so I decided to write up a FanPost on the Steelers' choice, as well as throw out some other points of interest (to me at least).

Before I get into the Steelers' choice, I wanted to point out that the Ravens' choice for greatest player ever was Matt Stover. Apparently, he's a great kicker, but how was he even on the list? Anyway, if I had to guess, it would be that Browns fans highjacked this poll to annoy Ravens fans. Or maybe they just love Stover more than Ray Ray.

Anyway, on to the Steelers choice. As my title already gave away, the Steelers' choice for greatest player of all time was Terry Bradshaw. The other choices in the poll were Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Franco Harris, Jerome Bettis, Mike Webster, Lynn Swann, Jam Ham, Mel Blount and John Stallworth, ranked in that order. First of all, I love Terry, but I would have had to vote for Joe Greene. Everyone that I've read or heard discussing the building of that 70's dynasty always points to Greene first, from Chuck Noll to Dan Rooney to Terry Bradshaw himself. In his autobiography from the 80's, Terry called Greene "the cornerstone of a dynasty." IIRC, that was the title of the Joe Greene section from the chapter on their dynasty. Without his domination in the first two SBs, the Steelers probably don't win them, certainly not that first one. Bradshaw also said that winning that first SB gave him the confidence that he needed to perform so well in the following SBs.

I'm also surprised that the poll did not include Hines Ward, since he owns every receiving record for the team, or Ernie Stautner, the only player whose number is officially retired. Anyway, I thought I'd include our own poll here at BTSC to see how it lines up with the ESPN version. I'm including Ward and Stautner, too. Let me know your thoughts on this as well.

Poll

Who do you think is the greatest Steeler of all time?

Terry Bradshaw

5 votes

Joe Greene

39 votes

Jack Lambert

16 votes

Franco Harris

2 votes

Jerome Bettis

4 votes

Mike Webster

4 votes

Lynn Swann

1 votes

Jack Ham

1 votes

Mel Blount

1 votes

John Stallworth

1 votes

Ernie Stautner

1 votes

Hines Ward

5 votes

80 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 39 comments

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Comments

Greene;

and it’s not that close. Bradshaw won 4 SB’s, yes but his actual QB numbers aren’t really that great. He was great in big games, but if you look at whole career, Joe Greene was just as good in big games, and also the reason we won so many regular season games.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 20, 2008 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

QBs

in general didn’t have great numbers. It was a different game back then. Look up Johnny U’s passer rating sometime.

by Desroko on Aug 20, 2008 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well check him against his peers...

three pro bowls ain’t that many

not once led the league in passing yards

not once led the league in passer rating

not once led league in completion %

That’s no dis of Bradshaw who was a VERY GOOD but not GREAT qb, even adjusting for era. He rarely outperformed even his contemporaries.

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Aug 20, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There was a quote...

when Terry was covering a Thanksgiving game that Peyton set some record or another, and was asked what his passing rating was for comparison. His answer, “Four Super Bowls”.

It ain’t all ratings, but I see your point.

by SCSteeler on Aug 20, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well sure...

that’s a clever answer and obviously one Terry Bradshaw would love, but quarterbacks don’t win Super Bowls, have never won a single Super Bowl in the history of the NFL. Super Bowl is awarded to TEAMS; the Steelers won Super Bowls. Terry Bradshaw won a ring (or four).

I think the exercise of exonerating a QB’s numbers or, in this instance, a QB excusing himself with SB victories, is selfish of the player and does an injustice to the people they played with. There were a lot of reasons the Steelers won Super Bowls, Bradshaw being just one of them.

I’m voting Joe Greene!

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Aug 21, 2008 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Team SB

Totally agree with you on teams win games ethic, and I don’t think that was the point of the quote at all. Just that stats are stats and results are results. He didn’t win those games singlehanded, no, but he did QB the offense and did a great job. As I posted elsewhere, I can’t really pick a greatest Steeler because everytime I think about one or the other – another player comes to mind.

by SCSteeler on Aug 21, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt

he played really well in 4 super bowls. But he also didn’t play so well in a lot of other games over the course of his career.

I see no distinction between stats and results as stats are results. As good as Bradshaw was in the ’79 Super Bowl, he was awful in ’77, awful in ’76, etc. He had the chance to win the SB in ’76 (75 season) no thanks to his own performance in the first round of the playoffs (8 of 13 with two picks, no tds).

I can think of a lot of contemporaries who were simply better passers than Bradshaw yet we don’t talk about them because he won Super Bowls and they didn’t. And I don’t think that’s really fair since the vast majority of Bradshaw’s career is represented not by the way he played in four games but the way he played in the nearly 200 other games he played. Which sample size is a better representation of the kind of QB he is? 200 or 4?

Contemporaries who were better:

Ken Anderson
Fran Tarkenton
Bert Jones
Roger
Billy Kilmer is comparable
Ken Stabler
Dan Fouts
Bob Griese
Brian Sipe
Len Dawson (Steeler!)
Greg Landry

It goes on, and there are a lot of non-household names in the above list. Every single person listed above had a higher completion % and higher QB Rating (although I have little use for this statistic, just sayin’) than Bradshaw over the course of their entire careers.

Knowing that, doesn’t it feel strange that Bradshaw never gets compared to Bert Jones? Is that really fair to some of the guys in the above list who, unlike Bradshaw, never had the opportunity to play with one of the best teams in the entire history of the league? Just counting up the HoFers, a lot of guys on the above list probably could’ve won some SBs with:

Joe Greene
Mel Blount
Jack Ham
Franco Harris
Jack Lambert
Chuck Noll
John Stallworth
Lynn Swann
Mike Webster

That’s nine deserving hall of famers who contributed to Terry Bradshaw’s legacy. All I’m saying is, for a guy who gets billed as one of the top 20 quarterbacks of all time, I have a hard time justifying his stats as the top 20 among his mere contemporaries and find it really a stretch to include Bradshaw anywhere near a top 20 QB list of all time. He is listed there in virtue of four games he played really well in. That’s not really fair to some of the guys on the list above (first one), in my opinion, who were probably better quarterbacks than Bradshaw.

Just my two cents, I’ve enjoyed the discussion.

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Aug 21, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True but

he shined in the biggest games. Like it or not, players are judged more by how they played on the biggest stages than through the entire course of their careers. Bradshaw is the ultimate example of that. He called his own plays in four SBs, and as the offensive leader, he lead his team to 4 victories. That’s really what’s it’s all about.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 22, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are correct

that players are judged in large part on what they do in a few games rather than looking over the course of their entire careers. I think that’s unfortunate.

I think the “guy just made plays in big games” thing is balogna. Terry Bradshaw played better in four, FOUR, Super Bowls. That’s not a lot of games. He had four better games at other points throughout his career (and certainly had his fair share of horrid games). Rather than try and divine some reason why Bradshaw was so good in SBs, I’d prefer to just accept the far more rational conclusion that he happened to get some statistical outliers at those particular moments.

There are a lot of guys on the list above that I would absolutely, without hesitation, take over Terry Bradshaw in a Super Bowl in spite of the fact that Bradshaw was a better postseason QB. If I’m just trying to find the absolute best quarterback to put on the field (all other things equal) I simply cannot base my decision overwhelmingly on how the guy did four times in his hundreds-of-games career.

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Aug 22, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Championships

I agree with you to a point. The problem is that there is only one championship each year, and those are the most important games. Every team’s goal each year is to win a championship. Some players are average in every other game, but seem to rise to the occasion on the biggest stages. Others (Marino, for example), are great throughout the huge majority of their games but wilt under the pressure of the biggest games. I’ll take the guy that shines when the lights are brightest over the consistent player who wilts under those lights every time. If I want to win a SB, give me Bradshaw over Marino any day.

There is just a difference between the pressure and everything else involved with a championship and any other game. So, I do think it’s reasonable to judge players more highly who excel in those pressure games even if the rest of their careers are mediocre. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 23, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradshaw...

didnt he admit to using steroids? i like him, but i dont think hes the best all time, i dont think there is only 1 best player, but 1 best team, and thats Pittsburgh.

by PsycoSalameh on Aug 20, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Steroids

Yeah, we already addressed that a while back. The steroids that he used were basically a cortisone shot (corticosteroids) in the elbow, not the anabolic steroids that are used in body building

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it wrong that I voted for Bettis?

He is my all-time favorite Steeler and I never saw the teams of the 70’s.

Revenge of the Birds

by cgolden on Aug 20, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think my favorite

would be Rod Woodson or Hines Ward – I don’t know if they’re objectively “the best” though.

Obviously, I wasn’t around in the 70s either.

by Desroko on Aug 20, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing wrong with voting for your favorite. :)

I didn’t think about Woodson until after I posted this, but I still don’t think he should be included because he spent nearly half his career (7 or 8 years out of 17 or 18, right?) on other teams. I loved Rod, too, and hated to see him leave.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

He has one of my favorite Steelers moments when he plowed over Urlacher in the championship year in the snow. Somewhere I’ve got the NFL films version of that and its awesome everytime I watch it.

Not to mention that he was humble enough to keep with the team even though his “star” was fading, reworking his contract, taking short yardage runs. But when it counted the man was there. No, no probalem with that pick either.

by SCSteeler on Aug 20, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great memories

I love that run over Urlacher, too! What Steeler fan wouldn’t, right?

I contended that Bettis was the team MVP in 2004, for all the reasons that you gave (willing to stay even if not starting, stepping in and starting when needed, etc.)

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bettis Plowing Urlacher

that’s my screen saver on my lap top!

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Aug 20, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bus

Yea his final years when he took lesser money and a lesser role really vaulted him from good player to one of my all-time favorites (IMO). Not to mention that I don’t think FWP would ever have been the player that he is today if the Bus hadn’t take him under is wing.

Ward loved Bettis and I hope he follows the same path (ala less money and reduced role to retire here).

Revenge of the Birds

by cgolden on Aug 21, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 21, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I was a kid...

I have to admit that Terry was the man – to my eyes back then. I remember him getting the hell knocked out of him and still making the throws. Although would Swan’s acrobatics have been necessary if passes were more on target? Hmmmm. I guess I would agree with the Terry pick …. he’s kinda goofy like me. Had his “autograph series” ball when I was a kid. Followed closely by Mean Joe – the “Hey Kid” commercial still plays in my mind sometimes, and there’s no denial that I loved seeing him crunch the other teams.

I dunno. I know its shameful, but this sort of question is still the reason that I have a hard time picking which Jersey to buy. If I had enough money – I’d get em all, but that’s not going to happen (and the wife would kill me). I really just love the team and appreciate each guy for their contributions to the whole. Horrible fence-sitter I suppose. I think LeBeau is my favorite now, he’s such a mastermind – and a character…but coaches don’t count I suppose.

I vote for all these guys.

by SCSteeler on Aug 20, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I wanted to go back and vote for some of the others after I put my vote in for Greene. :)

I know what you mean about picking the jersey. I decided to get my son a Hines Ward jersey because most of my in-laws are UGA fans or alumni. So, I figured it would fit both my favorite pro team and their favorite college team. If there were a great former NC State player on the Steelers, I would have had to pick him, though.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hard choices

Hines is a great one – I love to see the man knock defenders for six. I also love that more often than not he’s the one that stays working the play long enough for Ben to run to freedom and zip one down to him. Then there’s that smile. Love it.

I struggle with the modern versus 70’s, with defense v offense, etc… on the jersey front…. For a while I thought I would get one for the least appreciated Steeler instead, just to be awkward. I was gonna get Kreider, but they got rid of him.

Not to head too far off target, but you brought up a question I had been meaning to ask… how is the Wolfpack looking this year? I think my Gamecocks play your guys first game – and I’m not getting warm feelings about my team this year. – appologies to the rest of everybody for the tangent….

by SCSteeler on Aug 20, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wolfpack

Well, we haven’t had a QB since Rivers graduated, and our awesome defense has largely been drafted away. It does look like O’Brien has gotten our team to play with discipline and instead of having talent, yet finding ways to lose, we’re finding ways to win. Last year, we started out 1-5 and in those games lost about 15 players for the season. But, after the 6th game, we had a Bye week, and then won 4 straight. So, I think we have a good coach but we’re early in the rebuilding process. He has been able to beat every team that we’ve played so far who has Carolina in their name, so we may have a chance against your boys. I don’t know, though. We lost our best receiver for the year already, and one of our starting TBs from a year ago is dinged up again already (he was lost in the first game last season).

Yeah, I hear that SC is unsure of their QB as well. That’s really the only thing that gives me hope in this game. I really think you have the better team right now.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 20, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't count on it...

The QB Beecher has never had a start apparently and has looked awful at scrimmage – which is the same as preseason really. Defense should be a strength for em, but there’s a new coordinator so who knows. I’m glad they’re actually starting against a pretty good team rather than a smaller school. Last year I was pretty happy with the season…we were ranked and everything. Then I went home on leave, and went to the Vanderbilt game that we stunk out like crazy…and kept on stinking the rest of the year.

We’ll see, I think it will be a good game. Hope you guys beat Clemson later on, but that goes without saying.

by SCSteeler on Aug 20, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at us

poormouthing our teams like Lou Holtz! ;) Well, it’s obvious that we both have concerns about our teams. I hope we live up to your characterization of a good team in the first game.

I hope we beat Clemson, too, but UNC is the one I really want to win. I’d love to see SC beat Florida, too. :) I work with a Florida fan. He can be insufferable at times, although he doesn’t mean to be. Thanks.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 21, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When you're a Gamecocks fan

you get used to dissapointment – so I know how the rest of the AFC North feels :) I’m sure FWP would want you guys to beat UNC too. On Florida…I wouldn’t count on it, but I suppose you never know. Tebow and company ran over us real good last year.

by SCSteeler on Aug 21, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya

True of Wolfpack fans as well, especially since they decided to hire a UNC alum as AD to run off Jim Valvano and Dick Sheridan.

Well, we’ll see what happens. O’Brien’s keeping everything real close to the vest for this game, so maybe he’ll have them ready. At least it will have to be better than last year, where our players thought they could just show up and beat UCF.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 22, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradshaw’s a great guy and the perfect QB for the Steel Curtain era Steelers, but it’s gotta be Lambert. He symbolizes all that is Pittsburgh football. A dirty mouth, a nasty grin and bone crushing hits.

gumtime.blogspot.com

by Tony K on Aug 20, 2008 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

58

Love 58! My favorite Steeler ever. However IMO Brad and Greene were already here and had led the team to greatness. True they never won one without 58 but they had played in an AFC Championship game and been to the playoffs in the years before 58 arrived. Lambert helped the Steelers win games by sheer will. (see SB X)

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Aug 20, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greatest Steelers

Been watching since the Immaculate Reception. (although I was listening to Jack Fleming on WTAE 1250 that day (as the game was blacked out) I can’t argue with Bradshaw or Greene as Greatest Steeler ever.

You can throw stats out the window. 12 won 4 in 6. By career’s end he was prolific and perfect. Even his last game was unfreakingbelievable. 12 had gone under the knife after the 82 season against team wishes. He used some lame hick surgeon in Louisiana or Alabama (no offense Steelerark) who botched it. As Bradshaw sat in 83 the Steelers D dominated their opponents with TD’s off turnovers and ran out to 9-2. It was then that defensive coordinators figured out Cliff Stoudt was a stiff and if you just played cha cha offense (1-2-3 kick) until Cliff made a mistake you would win a close game. Suddenly Pittsburgh was 9-6 and in grave danger of missing the playoffs. Bradshaw came out in week 16 with his lame arm and drove the Steelers down the field twice in the opening minutes ending with TD passes. The last one to Greg Garrity (I think) left Bradshaw running off the field in pain holding his right elbow but the Steelers in the playoffs with a win at NYJ. 12…Guts, will and a winner. Stoudt started the next week in Oakland and Pittsburgh lost 38-3.
Mean Joe Greene was the cornerstone of that team that won 4 SB. He was a bear who dominated games like no other that I had seen. He won games by sheer will.
Speaking of sheer will…My favorite Steelers players of all time are Jack Lambert and Jerome Bettis.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Aug 20, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

PS

I voted for Mean Joe.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Aug 20, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

I was in the Press Box for that game (Imacculate Reception). I hope to post a memoir about it here in the near future (mabe during PO time). I vividly remember Terry’s last game against the Jets. Man! He was just like SUPERMAN until kryptonite lit up that arm again. I think of that game often. Bradshaw was both a top general and a soldier. He is a Medal of Honor winner in my book.

by steelersrock08 on Aug 21, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't vote!

I’m sorry, making a decision on this was tooooooooooo difficult for me. Each player in the poll brought so many different things to what the Steelers became and are today. I can’t pull the trigger on this one.

by steelersrock08 on Aug 21, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Vote for Stallworth or Stautner, so they’ll have at least one. :)

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 22, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Done deal Wolfpack!

by steelersrock08 on Aug 22, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have liked to have given every player at least one vote. :) We just need one more person to vote for Stautner, and then they’ll all have at least one.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 22, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs