T-Minus Two Weeks And Counting Until Steelers Football
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 5:03 AM EDT
138 comments
How about some reading material to start your Monday?
* Starting on a light hearted note: Cotter, from One For The Other Thumb, has mapped out our season in the way he knows best - with some humor and Photoshop. Check out the comical breakdown in Parts 1 and Parts 2.
* Gotta have it. Have what? Aaron Smith playing at a high level if we want to accomplish our goals in 2008. Saturday night sure was a positive indication that Aaron Smith is healthy and ready to go in 2008. The article is not amazingly interesting, but there is a quote from Chris Hoke that made me pause and think:
"He's the guy that gets us all fired up," nose tackle Chris Hoke said when asked about Smith's five-tackle, one-sack performance in the first half. "He's the leader of our defensive line."
Interesting. I know that Hines is probably our unquestioned overall leader, and that Big Ben is coming into his own as a leader on and off the field. But, I was wondering who exactly assumed some of the leadership responsibilities on the defensive end? Makes sense I suppose that Aaron Smith factors in. All he does is show up to work, perform, and quietly watch the bulk of the credit go to someone other than him.
* Dale Lolley makes an interesting observation in his most recent blog post. He touches on the absence of several players from action on Saturday night. In his mind, that signals the end of the road for them here in the Steel City. Dough Legursky and Ryan McBean are included in the list. Check it out.
* The lack of an Open Thread for Saturday's game was an indication of my absence this weekend. Consequently, I'm not going to pretend to do a meaninful recap. Thankfully, maryrose did just that in the post found below this one. Although some of you addressed the subject in the comments section, I don't feel like I have a complete grasp on Mendenhall's two fumbles. The situations? Whether or not the Vikings' forced said fumbles, etc. Between him running a touch upright and the fumbling issues, there's plenty to be concerned about, despite his flashes of occasional brillaince and work-horse like qualities this preseason.
* I can't say I agree with maryrose about Byron Leftwich. I know, I know. Byron Leftwich is a QB who has led a team to the playoffs, has seen just about every defensive wrinkle out there, etc. But, did you know Byron Leftwich is 1-6 in his last 7 starts? Yikes. He's also never thrown more than 15 TD passes in a seaon, despite have started 15, 13, and 11 games in 2003-2005 respectively. I just don't quite get it. He's not a 'winner' really in any sense of the word. And yes, his arm strength is a thing of beauty, but the last time I checked, the top 3 QBs in the league imo (Manning, Brady, Brees) mostly make their living with accuracy and touch. I feel Leftiwch too often throws the 2-seam fastball when he needs to throw the offspeed stuff. Furthermore, I suppose I am having a hard time getting used to the notion of us hitching our wagons to the former Jaguars' starting QB. Hopeffuly, it's all irrelevant, and Big Ben will play a complete season. Well, at least 15 games, minus Week 17 when we rest against the Browns with the divison in hand :)
* Your random Monday reading material: the rise of the infectious superbug. Totally random, I know. But, if you have a few minutes, check it out. A great read and frankly, very scary stuff. To keep it NFL relevant...remember this story about the St. Louis Rams a few years ago? They haven't been the last team either to deal with such an issue. Lesson: don't take antiobiotics unless you need to. And definitely don't give them to kids unless you have to.
* Oh, be sure to catch TheMostViolentTeam's second installment on How the Steelers Defense Works. His latest entry covers the play of the linebackers. If you missed the first one about the secondary, you can find it here.
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cotter's headlines
funny but Cincinnati chili definitely does not suck
by schnifin on Aug 25, 2008 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
really? skyline chili tastes to me like what hobo ball sweat would smell like if it was kept in a jar for weeks under a heat lamp.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 25, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lefty
I’ve never been a big Leftwich fan and I’ll be awful nervous if he has to take any meaningful snaps this year. He’s a been one of the toughest players in the league and I’ll never forget him being carried by his OL in his final college game, but he’s not a legitimate NFL QB. He’s got a rocket arm but he’s got absolutely no touch. The comparison to throwing a fastball instead of something off speed is spot-on. Hopefully Ben stays healthy and Lefty keep his ball cap on all season.
by cgolden on Aug 25, 2008 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen this on here a few times, but everything I’ve read has said that his arm is actually very weak. He just has a rep as a “rocket armed QB” b/c of certain, ahem, visual stereotypes… coupled w/ that windup of his.
I think I’ve read this (that he has a below average arm) mostly from Scouts, Inc.
by kwoog on Aug 25, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
He threw the ball 80 yards the other day in practice. GUys like Brees, Pennington, et al can’t do that.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Leftwich may be held to too high a standard by some
He is not taking us to the Super Bowl. No quarterback sitting on his sofa in August possibly could. He was not one of the 32 starting QBs nor one of the 32 backups. The only thing we could hope for, from Leftwich or anyone else, is a guy who might be able to win a game or two if needed while Ben was healing.
The fact that we found a guy, durable as hell, who came in and was a very quick study in learning the offense, to me was a victory. Moreover, he came in with the perfect attitude. He knows it’s Ben’s team and he knows his role. He has experience in tough situations and is the perfect age for what we need right now. The guy’s a gamer, flaws and all. Anything more and he wouldn’t have been on the sofa.
Also, maybe Ken Anderson can shorten his delivery and soften his touch. For all we know, we might by saying we have the best backup again for the next five years if that is the case. We might have gotten lucky with this twist of fate. Batch is what, 33?
by maryrose on Aug 25, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
You mkae good points ‘rose here. And you’re right really. He is probably the right guy for our situation. I just hope that we don’t continue to take this path in the future if we’re going to waste draft picks on QBs in the mid to late rounds, particularly if they prove they’re developing all the while.
Anyway, I think your first sentence is very insightful. Leftwich is probably held to too high a standard by many, including me.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the path we took
was completely a result of timing. Yes, we did take a QB in the late rounds, but the coaches know he is not ready now to win a game or two for us. Leftwich might be. If this Batch thing happened next year Dixon would be more prepared and Leftwich would not have been called in. I don’t think we wasted a pick on Dixon so much as we need a guy right now with more experience than he has. I’m feeling pretty solid about our whole quarterback situation, now and in the future. I think we’re making the right moves under all the circumstances, but it remains to be seen.
by maryrose on Aug 25, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't agree with you more, maryrose.
I really don’t understand all of the Leftwich bashing…Dixon was not brought in to be a #2 this year, and Leftwich was not brought in to be a #1, so everybody needs to take a deep breath, chill out, and realize how lucky we were to able to bring in a vet, on the cheap, with NFL starter’s experience – I feel like we did that once before, who was it again, oh yeah, Charlie Batch. I don’t remember the league, or the Nation for that matter, being full of people looking to give good ole Charlie a starting job. And rightfully so, but you know what: he was a damn good back-up. I realize everybody loves the home-town kid (eh, old-man), but dude broke a collar bone – them’s the breaks (no pun intended). Leftwich is a perfect stop-gap solution, sign him for a year, give Dixon a year to develop and be evaluated, and hopefully have him step into a #2 role next year. If not, resign Leftwich, bring back Batch, sign another vet who can’t win a starting job elsewhere (a la Gus Ferrotte) and move on. He’s your back up, the most you hope for – when you have a elite starting QB – is that in a pinch he doesn’t lose you a game or two. That’s it, no more, no less. That is all I hope Dixon to be some day – just not today – and while I have much love for Batch, he is no good to the team injured. Leftwich is more than suited to the role we are presenting him with and I think we should all consider ourselves quite fortunate that our major preseason injury (knock on wood) was so well and so easily addressed via free agency. (I guess I’m not countin Sepulveda, but same goes for that situation – so far, so good).
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Aug 25, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
in fact, the careers of Batch & Leftwich are eerily similar. Mid-American Conference guys, decidedly average as starters, who go on to be excellent back-ups.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 25, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great thoughts
Good stuff Rougue.
But, my protestations are not that I think Batch is so wonderful, but rather that I wish Dixon was just thrown into the fire if we were in a bind and Ben went down. There’s plenty of rookies who come in right away and win some games (Trent Edwards, Kellon Clemons etc). I’m not really sure, and this is just my opinion, that Leftwich would give us THAT better of a chance to win than Dixon would. Especially when you consider our offensive line. Leftiwch is NOT mobile whatsoever. Dixon is, and I think his ability to make dink and dunk plays outside the pocket would be just as acceptable as Leftiwch’s bettter understanding of NFL defenses. Again, just my opinion though.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those are really good points
particularly apropos of the the offensive line. I guess my thought is that rookies meeting with success when thrown to the fire is the exception rather than the rule (and we already got really, really lucky once it that department, see 2004-05). I can’t, rather don’t disagree with your line of reasoning, though I guess I will say that think that the FO really believes that Dixon has raw talent and that he could be developed into be a legit quarterback someday. But he needs to be groomed – not thrown into the fire. It is kind of like a baseball team drafting a legit pitching prospect – they don’t just sign him and throw him in the rotation. If they didn’t sign Leftwich and the did have to go to Dixon (before he was ready) who know how he would come out of that expereince. A couple of bad pick, a couple of bad losses, might not just cost us a playoff birth this season, but I might cost you the psyche of your young QB. That is far more costly than the $605,00 deal that Leftwich signed.
Do you realize that Leftwich signed for $225,000 LESS than Mitch Berger (currently the 2nd string punter) who signed on the same day? Talk about a low risk investment. You can’t beat that kind of value – if it doesn’t work out, Lefty could just be a low rent ringer for Dan’s flag-football team at the Rooney family reunion (which is shaping up to be a pretty heated contest this year).
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Aug 25, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
value
Def agree about the risk-reward involved. That’s crazy about signing for less than Berger. Didn’t know that. That’s got to be humiliating for him. Hehe.
As for Dixon and his psyche getting damaged. Maybe, maybe not. Impossible to even guess, but we do know for a fact that Dixon is one of the more studious players on the team, lapping up every ounce of info he can get. That hints to me that he’d probably handle some adversity just fine.
Hopefully, HOPEFULLY, we’ll never even need to know the answer to our questions, and Ben will just stay upright and healthy all year :)
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very similar
Batch was brought in to be the backup and they had a rookie QB as the #3. Turns out the rookie was pretty good
by schnifin on Aug 25, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
I was going to use that example but Big Ben was a 1st rounder and quite heralded, unlike Dixon who was a 5th rounder and needs some time to develop. Thought those other names might be better comparisons because they, like Dixon, were thought of more as prospects than Year 1 options.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the update and the links Blitz
really interesting especially I thought about Aaron Smith. Man did he show up Saturday night – 5 tackles, 1 sack, and lots of disruption all in the first half. If his play sparks the D so be it, here’s to a great season for Smith!
Give credit to the Vikes for causing Mendenhall’s fumbles, both were stripped from him. But ball security and lack of game and field position awareness contributed as well- both correctable coachable issues especially with a player as willing to learn and improve as Mendenhall, who never once fumbled in college.
I’m not concerned about Mendenhall so much as I’m very, very pumped. I gotta tell you Blitz Mendenhall looks like a hell of a talent. He had several long runs in the game, and when you really watch what he did its unbelievably impressive. I’ll throw one more link in, check out the run with under a minute left in the third quarter:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29821&season=2008&displayPage=tab_gamecenter
Mendenhall appears to be playing at a different level – vision, cutting, acceleration – than anyone else on the field. He consistently makes the fist and sometimes second guy miss. When there appears to be nothing he’s getting a couple yards, when there’s only a couple yards to be had he’s picking up six or seven. He has a great stiff arm, putting lb’s on the ground, and when he does make contact he often delivers the blow.
There is plenty to be concerned about with Mendenhall – for opposing defenses! I realize he was going against the second team most of Saturday night, but what he’s doing well looks so impressive I can’t wait to see more -much more!
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cool
Thanks for the Mendenhall updates and extra info.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
highlights
Mendy does look good in those highlights and his vision looks really good. He looks like a guy who makes that one cut and then has a burst that some backs just don’t have. I will say this though, he’s breaking tackles and/or making people miss but he doesn’t look like a power back to me. He’s elusive but I don’t see him running over people. It seems like he makes a little move to get them off balance and the runs through the arm tackle. Now that’s not a bad thing by any means, I’m just saying he might not be the big power back that some people have projected.
by cgolden on Aug 25, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
goal line
Yeah we’ve been so spoiled for so long with The Bus rolling down the field on tough defenses for so many, many yards and TD’s. Seriously, Jerome could flat out take you on and take you out my friend, would you want to tackle him!?! I’ll never forget his TD run into, through and over Urlacher. What a back, the REASON we one the superbowl, Hall of Famer. And FWP is the man, we all love and appreciate him big time. I for one think he’s a hell of a back and the main reason the offense goes, along with Big Ben.
Mendenhall is not Bettis, and he’s not Willie, of course, but what he is may be, dare I say it, better. Okay, okay I know that’s loud but if he can get in the end zone from whatever yardage – look out. Goal line is a specific skill especially at the NFL level, if you listen to Mendenhall he says he’s learning a lot and adjusting the the pro game and hell, he hasn’t even taken a snap in it yet. Give this kid a couple reps and we’ll see what the limit is. So far, he looks like he sees and gets to more daylight. He eludes defenders, but when a defender does make contact with him, he either fends him off with a stiff arm, or delivers a blow due to his size and strength. Time will tell.
Go Steelers!
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"[Jerome Bettis]...the REASON we one (sic) the superbowl"!?!?!?
wow…that is a stretch…no wait…that is insane. Great locker-room guy, great Steeler, fan favorite, had many great years here, but there where at least 22 other guys who were a more important reason we won the superbowl. The Bus was at best a specialist by that point in his career – on par in terms of importance with say, the kicker, or the long-snapper. Don’t laugh, I mean it. Maybe a better comparision is the nickle-back. Speaking of which, you may recall, Bryant Mcfadden making a fantastic play to break-up a Reggie Wayne touchdown in the waning moments of the AFC Championship. All Jerome Bettis did in the waning moments was well…demonstrate Big Ben’s defensive prowless and set the stage for Bryant Mcfadden to make a stronger claim that he (and not the Bus) was the REASON we won the superbowl. But even that is crazy.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Aug 25, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rougue_Behaviorist have you ever seen a grown man cry?
Remember when Hines Ward cried openly like a baby on TV after we lost to New England in the AFC Championship Game in ‘05, the year before we won it all? He wasn’t alone.
I’d never seen anything like it. Here was Hines balling and choking on his words on national TV, in front of everyone, as he could barely talk saying how much this loss hurt. And why?
Because he wanted to go to the Superbowl? No.
Because he wanted Jerome to go to the Superbowl.
Hines and his teammates, to a man, were crushed because Jerome Bettis had just said goodbye to all of them in the locker room after the game and they realized The Bus would retire and would never win a Superbowl. This cut so deep Hines was willing to break down on National TV in front of the entire NFL community – a tough crowd to be sure.
When Jerome was talked into coming back for one more run, by Big Ben, Ben promised he’d get him to the Superbowl. With SB XL scheduled to be in Detroit, Jerome’s hometown, the team arrived wearing Notre Dame jerseys in honor of Bettis.
To a man the entire team rallied in the name of Jerome Bettis, and won it. Jerome Retired on the spot. The team pulled together and played close knit football for Jerome, he was the reason they won it.
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen cheap shot artists cry many times the time. Malicious/unstable personalities usually suffer from mood swings.
by kwoog on Aug 25, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheap shot?
Name a cheap shot he’s ever laid. Always between the whistles. Just because a defender doesn’t see it (or expect it because he’s an overrated cry-baby LB), doesn’t make it a cheap shot. It’s called football you pansy.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 25, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was linked to a couple weeks ago, a fanshot by Highschoolsteeler, I believe.
by kwoog on Aug 25, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, here you go.
I’m not trying to start anything. I think Bettis/Cower/Polamalu and many other Steelers, both past and present, are class acts. But Ward is scum. He’s always been a dirty, classless player. And his peers in the NFL have voted him as such.
by kwoog on Aug 25, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just cause?
Because he’s a Wide Receiver he’s dirty? Interior linemen and most positions on defense take shots at their opposition constantly throughout games. Most WRs prefer not to take the contact.
I’ll grant you that Hines goes head hunting and it’s not always necessary for the play. And the man knows how to work the system. But I don’t think he’s ever out to harm or injure the opposition any more than any other player. He’s not cutting out legs or diving at knees which is a much easier way to hurt someone then to hit them with your upper body against their upper body.
Meh… I won’t disagree that he’s not an honor student but I don’t think you can put Cowher or Bettis into that category either. Most very competitive people will take whatever advantage they can. Basically every good football player has done it. (for better or for worse)
by Chicago Steeler on Aug 25, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toughest Wide Out in the NFL
And one of the toughest at any position – Hines will dish it out but he will also take it, always coming up smiling. You gotta love that!
Hey, Whines Hard can get on my nerves as much as anyone sometimes but he is one a hell of a baller. Would you call Mean Joe Greene a cheap shot artist and “scum”? Lambert? I’d call them among the best of the HOF.
For a guy who plays the game so hard and close to the edge, where you want to be, I’m surprised Hines has had so few incidents where he actually crossed the line. Unlike yourself kwoog, for example. lol
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
way to link
a survey from 2004. ESPN recently did one this offseason and Rodney Harrison was at the top again; Hines Ward got one single vote out of 18 coaches. He was also voted the smartest offensive player in the league in the same survey, so his peers/coaches think highly of him, without placing their personal bias first, something you are obviously incapable of doing. Ward isn’t anywhere near the list of players with most personal fouls in the league since 2001 either. Guess who was? Shaun Rogers, who has 11 personal foul penalties since 2001, placing him fifth in that category. And I’m not calling him dirty or classless,
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 25, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
granted
his physical style gets more attention because he plays a position normally manned by players who generally don’t like real physical play. if he was a linemen or a linebacker or even a running back crushing linebackers who were blitzing, noone would notice, because that kind of physicality is expected. because most WRs would rather talk about being soldiers, instead of actually being one, Hines gets more attention for his physical play.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 25, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The link I provided was from 2004, ie, Ward’s 7th year in the league. It was also conducted from “354 current and former players”, the guys out on the field who probably know about his antics a lot better than 18 coaches who just see the highlights of a good block here and there. And we all know that certain players can get a bad rap, and certain players can get the benefit of the doubt (hello Peyton’s ridiculously non-overturned interception to Polamalu in the AFC Championship game), so personal fouls don’t mean much to me. I wonder how many personal fouls Richard Seymour, a notoriously dirty player, has gotten while playing for those media darlings in Boston.
Did you even watch the clip I linked to in the other thread? I’m sorry, but most NFL players would never take a cheap shot like that, let alone raise their fist afterwards like they were Mohamed Ali or something.
by kwoog on Aug 25, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bang bang play
I just viewed the play kwoog and that’s a bang bang play. Maybe a millisecond late, but that’s what a late hit personal foul penalty flag is for- 15 yards, that’s it. Happens a lot in the NFL – its a fast game, especially live on the field. No slow mo replay for the players. One late hit does not a “scum” player make my man.
And the very link you reference shows your soldier laying a way, way late hit on Farrior! Hello? Now that’s a cheap shot, no debate out it. (You have to admit the way Farrior responded was awesome!)
I like your enthusiasm for your team kwoog, keep it going but please, no cheap shots.
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay. If you think that was a bang-bang play, then we’ll just have to (vehemently) agree to disagree.
Yes it was sweet how Farrior responded.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't see the link for some reason
But I do want to say that Hines has been my favorite Steeler for a long time. Remember that this guy makes his living by catching balls up the middle. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another football player get pounded as hard as he does as often as he does. At least once a game he is in the air stretching out in between the safety and the linebacker. Half the time you expect him to go off the field in a stretcher. Instead he gets up smiling and gives the guy a pat on the back.
If once or twice a game he makes a 250lb linebacker look foolish by actually laying a block on them, I would say that makes him valuable, smart and courageous. I think HW is the leader of our team and the reason that the Steelers are the toughest team in the division. If your star wide receiver is looking for contact in the fourth quarter, then pretty much any other player on the team (except for kickers and the QB – and unfortunately that’s not a problem for us either) should be embaressed to take a play off. It works. The Steelers don’t always have the best team, or play as smart as they should. But they sure play hard.
by SteelerBuddha on Aug 26, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice buddha
Agreed. Favorite player too. Totally agree with your assesment of how Ward plays the game. Defenders are constantly allowed to lay offensive players out. So Ward fires back from time to time. Oooooooohhh! Dirty!
Please.
As usual Buddha, well said. I always like your compartmentalized and rational thoughts.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 26, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
what a joke. That poll? Please. 354 players, Hines got 9%??? So 34 players voted him a dirty player. Hmm, I bet some of those players were Corey Fuller, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Leigh Bodden, Chris Crocker, Kevin Hardy, Caleb Miller or some other whiner AFC North DB or LB that got the shit knocked out of him by Hines.
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure they were too… and perhaps after the play, like Holly was in the YouTube clip. Especially considering those guys played him twice a year.
If you think 1 out of every 10 players in the entire NFL is not indicative of something, that’s fine. I disagree.
by kwoog on Aug 27, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah
in SLOW MOTION it was a second or two delayed. in real time not at all. watch it in real time. and it was barely helmet to helmet, the shoulder took most of the blow, the player probably got the concussion from hitting the ground. Personal fouls don’t mean much to you? Obviously, people can disguise dirty play (especially along the line), but the more often a player is dirty, the more likely they be the ones who get called for personal fouls the most. As such, at the top of that list would most likely be the dirtiest players. Sure, there would be some players who wouldn’t be at the very top of the list because they might hide it better, but they’d still be up there most likely. And Hines plays a position where a personal foul committed by him would more easily be seen than most other positions. There isn’t a muck of linemen around him or anything. The back judge is looking for that kind of stuff once the ball is in play.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hines Ward's histrionics notwithstanding...
the reason the Steelers won superbowl XL had much more to do with X and O’s and peaking at the right time, then it did with the team rallying behind Jerome. I could talk about the specifics of LeBeau’s blitzing schemes against Indy, or Cowher’s cashing in on 15 years of smash-mouth-football-reputaion to come out throwing and get early leads in both Indy and Denver. I could talk about a FWP running behind a pulling Faneca for the superbowl record touchdown run, or even Kimo Von Oelhoffen rolling up on Carson Palmer’s leg…but I have a feeling that those arguments wouldn’t change your mind. So I will only say this: to suggest that the Steelers won a superbowl, because they really wanted to – because they tried really, really hard because they really wanted to win for their friend – is disrespectful to the Steelers and their opponents. In fact it is disrespectfuly to all professional athletes and, well, their professionalism.
I realize that emotion do and always will play a part in competitive athletics, but this is not high-school or even college, where it really might be about wanting it more. These are professional athelets who devote their livelyhoods to winning. At the end of the day it comes down to talent and execution, not crying and camaraderie. There may be rare exceptions to this rule, but they certainly do not play out over entire off-seasons, seasons, and post-seasons.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Aug 25, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"more to do with X and O’s and peaking at the right time, then (sic) it did with the team rallying behind Jerome"
More to do with X and O’s and peaking at the right time…(with) the team rallying behind Jerome. That works.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one Rougue. I hear you on your point about everyone on the team contributing, of course they must to win. But I do not think you can discount the impact of Jerome almost retiring, and Big Ben promising he would get Jerome to SB XL.
Most professional athletes understand that a closer team beats a similarly talented team every time. It is a team game. The fact that they rallied explains why they won it all. Without the team pulling together in the name of Jerome, they do not win SB XL, they don’t even get there.
by herewegosteelers on Aug 25, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bettis
I would have to say that the run to SB XL was a combination of what both Rougue and herewego are saying. I don’t think the Steelers make it to the playoffs that year without the Bus, so he was a key to winning it. The reason I say that is that he came in at the beginning of that run when FWP was out for a couple games, and in those games, he played great. He was especially dominant in that Bears game. The fact that he was on the bench for most of the playoffs doesn’t take away from the fact that if Parker went down, we had a great player who had shown that he could be a feature back for a game or 3 when needed. He couldn’t carry the load all season anymore, but he could step in when needed. That was invaluable to us.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree WolfPack
I think some forget that Bettis had some huge games that year. that said, I also agree with Rougue. Execution and preparation, not to mention talent, wins football games at this level.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 26, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bacteria article
Wow… Organic meats anyone?
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Aug 25, 2008 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
heh
You were one of the folks I had in mine when I linked to that article ’Maafala.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DaTruth Chimes In ... With Nothing
Guys, very few comments to make because the Steelers game got booted in the DaTruth’s viewing domain to make room for the Deadskins beat down by the Panthers. Here goes nothing:
- Mendenhall’s nice runs aside. However, when we are on the goal-line and its 4th and 1, who would you rather give the ball to, Fast Willie, Rocket Rashard or Gary Russell. Russell for me and it’s not even close right now. Some way, some how, Tomlin will have to bite the bullet on a game day roster spot to have this grinder available.
- Because DaTruth didn’t watch the game, did Ernster’s punting look as impressive as his statistics. If he and Berger are even, you’d probably have to go with Ernster because he can do something that Jeff Reed can’t — and that’s put it in the endzone on kickoffs.
- No news on Larry Foote, but will he ever get that starting job back from Timmons. Just a question.
- Supposedly Reid’s play this game has kept away a visit from the Turk. If the 5th spot is for versatility, Reid can probably do more than Baker and Drummond to land it. In fact, what has Limas Sweed done so far to be active on game days except being 6’4’’? Just asking.
- How did the backup DL look, particularly Orpheus Roye? No problem keeping him with the 53 as long as the team puts Prince and Reffrett on the practice squad. As far as McBean, DaTruth believes that dog might not ever hunt.
- As far as the Leftwich haters, just realize that Charlie Batch isn’t necessarily Tomlin’s guy, he is a player that Tomlin inherited. He has no ties to Batch, who really seemed like he was floating some passes in preseason than he normally would gun. In fact, it’s fresh in Tomlin’s mind what Leftwich can do as a starter. DaTruth thinks Tomlin might have been coaching in the college ranks the last time Batch was a starter in Detroit.
- Blitz, it might be time to give us an updated version of your 53, although you might want to wait until the Panthers game on Thursday. Bubble players to discuss, anyone?
Be blessed!
by datruth4life on Aug 25, 2008 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good calls as usual
Good thought on Sweed. Obviously he’ll be on the roster, but are we really guaranteeing him the #4 spot? I suppose we’ve got to get him in-game experience but for contributions now I feel like Reid might be the better bet.
Only good thing going for Charlie is that he’s got a much better grasp of the playbook then Lefty and Dennis Dixon is Tomlin’s choice for the future not Lefty. And I have to believe that mentoring-wise you want Charlie more than Lefty. Big Ben will do what he can with the young guy but I can’t see him coaching him up the way Chaz would.
by Chicago Steeler on Aug 25, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
Not sure Leftwich knows the offense well enough to be helpful as a teacher.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 25, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweed
He had a nice diving catch. This guy is going to develop into an ace receiver. I’ll bet on it.
by BallsofSteel on Aug 25, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB Controversy
Steeler fans,
Thing is your QB is about as overhyped as Byron is underrated IMO. You hate the notion of seeing Byron as your starter about as much as I hate to see him in your uniform, but it is what it is. I appreciate the fact your team my most hated team in the NFL has given my favorite NFL player a shot to redeem himself.
Byron is the man, and I imagine that Ben is feeling the pressure of being outclassed to the point ist is already starting to effect his game, why because fact of the matter is, that he is. School is in session.
by Jagsbch on Aug 25, 2008 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh please
Leftwich 03-06 JAX 24-22 (.520) 79.7 passer rating 51 TD 36 INT
Roethlisberger 04-07 PIT 39-16 (.709) 92.5 passer rating 84 TD 54 INT
There is no doubt that school is in session. You and Leftwich should show up on time and we wont have to assign extra homework.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 25, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh
And I gave you the benefit of the doubt by excluding last year’s abortion with Atlanta. If you like, I can redo my numbers with those games, too.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 25, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jaguars
The Jaguars have fans!?! Who knew! They will probably get more when they move to L.A.
by bradyquinnsclipboard on Aug 25, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3400+ yards 26 TD’s in his last 16 games with the Jaguars who play the most ultra conservative passing offense in the league.
The reason Byron and JDR had a falling out was because Byron went off on JDR on the sideline for his blatent attempt to castrate the passing offense with small ball football during the Texan game. JDR’s ego couldn;t take it and he found a lame excuse as a sore ankle to bench him. Byron was a fish out of water in JDR’s system.
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 6:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dont totally disagree with you
Particularly the part about JDR being very limiting as a head coach for QBs.
I still don’t think Leftwich has the skill set (or the numbers if we want to go off of that) to even sniff Big Ben, but I’m glad you elaborated with something a bit more subsstantive. Good stuff.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 26, 2008 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do football teams get points for passing yards now? Is it like fantasy? I don’t give a damn about Lefty’s ability to throw downfield. How’s his clipboard arm? Is it strong? Vice-like grip on that important clipboard? Good.
I’m glad you chose not to respond to my dissection of your point, instead casting a red herring in our direction. The sharks in the pool are still hungry, so if you’ve got more fish, we’ve got more eating to do.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny
“to even sniff Big Ben?”
That is funny, the feeling is mutual, but of course on the other end of the spectrum…
Speaking of going off #‘s I am astonished at just how oblivious the Steeler fan base is as to how Ben put up the Numbers he managed last season. Was it Ben being big or the opponent being small? I believe it is the latter considering Bens Numbers in prior seasons where he had 17 TD’s in two seasons and 18 in another. How does a guy go from having his season TD #’s in the teens to nearly doubling it to 30? Could it be his opponent last season in 12 games had a scoring passing defense that ranked 25th in the league on average? Wake up~!!
Lets look at how well he did against the better scoring passing defenses shall we…
Jets 1 TD 1 INT
NE 1 TD
Buf 1 TD 1 INT
Sea 1 TD
Look when your getting 19 TD’s in 6 games against some of the worst passing defenses in the league while looking mediocre at best against some of the better defenses, well that to me makes all the hype revolving around Big Ben who plays small against good defenses laughable.
6 TD’s against the 29th ranked scoring passing offense Browns
4 against the 30th
5 against the 26th in one game
4 against the 24th
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a shock
Players do better when playing bad competition? Who would have thought it.
Tell me, friend, how many Championships has Lefty won? And where, do you suppose, would he fall on this chart, were he still an active starting NFL quarterback?
Listen, you’re not going to win any popularity contests over here with all of your nonsense, so lets just wait until we see you Oct 5th. You can come in here and crow all you want if you win the game. Just do us a favor and go crawl back under your whiskey tango rock until then.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha, always the championship """""argument""""", hilarious.
Oh, and stop rooting for my Tribe, BW!
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry? If you think that’s not a legit argument, you’re a moron, plain and simple.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ll notice that the only people who don’t think it’s a legitimate argument are the same who can’t make that argument. Of course neither one of you likes the argument: neither of your teams have ever even been to a Superbowl.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, this has nothing to do with team histories or successes. You bringing that up exposes your bias. An argument is made when it gives adequate rationality or logic for a stated case.
For your argument to be true, a meaningful factor that distinguishes these two QBs is that one won a Superbowl. Well, how did little Ben get that Superbowl? By going 9/21, 123 yards, 0 TDs, 2 ints, all for a whopping 22.6 rating. Basically, the Steelers were given one of the worst performances imaginable by a QB, and they won the game in spite of Roethlisberger. I know he was good in the AFC playoffs, they wouldn’t have gotten there without him, blah blah blah. It’s irrelevant, mainly b/c it’s too small of a sample size (you’re a LGTer, you should understand that). Little Ben wouldn’t have his championship if it were up to his performance. Thus, his championship isn’t an argument for his skill.
I say all this acknowledging he’s a top 5 QB, and clearly better that Byron.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although, I don’t know, re-looking at Jagsbch’s actual arguments, maybe it isn’t clear.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kwoog
show me what in Jagsbch’s argument lends any support to the idea that Byron is any better than Ben. (See my response to Jagsbch in this same thread for further details). He has said nothing at all in any way that would give credence to that. Since Byron didn’t play last season it’s hard to use common opponents. The best method is to look at career numbers. Someone showed those, they aren’t even close, Ben by a mile in every category. Across their careers I bet the average defense they played is similar, due to the cyclical nature of NFL scheduling. BostonWahoo just also added the Super Bowl winning part, he didn’t use it as the sole basis of his argument, if you read his prior comments (his first thing was posting the career numbers—-you made a big deal “ding ding ding” the SECOND time he posted those numbers in this thread). He didn’t mention the Super Bowl until later. It’s just one more thing on Ben’s resume. There are many factors that go into a bad performance (like Ben’s Super Bowl); it’s possible (I’m not saying it’s why, he also threw some bad balls and looked off-target) that because of the nature of the Steelers previous victories, against the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos the Steelers threw alot, early more than usual to set up the run, that the Seahawks were more geared to stopping Ben passing the ball, and as such, this set up the Steelers having a successful running attack that day. It certainly could have been a factor. Just like the Steelers dominant running attack HELPED (but certainly wasn’t the deciding or sole factor) in Ben posting huge numbers/passer rating in the 3 previous playoff games.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only got into this thing b/c of the Super Bowl argument, no other reason (see above, my first comment). It certainly wasn’t to discredit Roetlisberger. I’ve said about a 100 times that he was a top 5 QB.
The arguments Jagsbch used that intrigued me was how inflated his numbers were against bad teams last year. I didn’t know that.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
they are intriguing, but hardly surprising. I bet most QBs do the same. Also against better pass defenses, you would expect a team to run the ball, since you don’t want to play into their strength, and against a weak pass defense, you want to pass, to attack their weakness. And he didn’t show Byron’s numbers, so it doesn’t “muddle” the picture of who is better between Byron and Ben. I still can’t believe I got involved in this argument, but it went too far. When Jagsbch first posted I ignored it because it’s so ridiculous, and noone has still said anything meaningful to make Byron look like he is in Ben’s league as a QB. But it’s gone far enough and he (and you to a much lesser degree) have made points I am compelled to back up BostonWahoo. The first thing he did was post career stats. It’s like putting your GPA (if you have a real high one) at the top of your resume upon college graduation. It’s a barometer of your “career” so to speak. Further down the list you might put Championship winner of <insert any kind of team sports (or academic even)> even if you performed badly in the Championship, as long as you were a key player to get there. I don’t disagree that SBs aren’t how QBs should be judged, but it’s still a notch on their resume. To get to and win a Super Bowl doesn’t require just one good performance in the AFC Championship game like Ben had, it requires a whole good season (like Ben had), and good playoff games, thus it’s appropriate for him to say Super Bowl-winning quarterback. It’s the sum of all the parts.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will gladly concede that Ben played a horrible game in SB XL. But how did the Steelers get there? Perhaps he had something to do with their winning 3 consecutive games on the road? And the season prior, his rookie campaign: the Steelers went 15-1 in the regular season. Could a Leftwich-led Jags team ever have accomplished that? I highly doubt it.
He is a competent backup in the NFL, and I’m glad to have him in Pittsburgh until Charlie heals, but his record clearly shows he will never be any better than that
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s clearly the wrong question. The question is, could a Leftwich-led Steelers team ever have accomplished that? And the answer is not so obvious.
Haha, I already brought up the 3 AFC PO games and their irrelevance, but you still mentioned them. Do the Steelers send out “talking points” memos to their fans?
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh please
You argue against him on the one hand because of his performance in SB XL, and against my counter-argument on the other hand, regarding his playoff run, citing SSS. You can’t have it both ways, my friend.
The sample is his career. The comparison is Byron’s career.
QB1: 39-16, 84td-54int, 11673 yds
QB2: 24-22, 52-38, 9321
Who would you pick? The question is simple, the answer is obvious, the discussion, imo, is over.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t argue against him. I said the championship was irrelevant. Both the one game super bowl and the three hot games in the AFC PO are too small.
I’m not arguing he sucks. I’m arguing 05 has nothing to do with whether he sucks or is great. And that’s the truth.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!!!!! ding ding ding, you get a prize! The sample is their careers, not 4 games where little Ben was propped up by an outstanding supporting cast! Ie, the going back to my original point, saying “who has a championship” is not an argument, but Steelers fans innevitably resort to it.
Man, like you just did, use the career stats that are relevant, and your point could actually be made.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have use _all_ postseason appearances
But comparing Ben’s 5-2 postseason record against Byron’s 0-1 record would I’m sure just invite more scorn from the brownpants.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, I can’t resist.
Once again, the W-L record is irrelevant (obviously, b/c it counts that SB game as a positive for Roethlisberger).
Superbowl rating: 22.6
3 AFC playoff game ratings: 148.7, 95.3, 124.9
2004 victory over the Jets: 57.8
2004 loss to the Pats: 78.1
And now, after his best regular season ever, the loss to the Jags last year: 79.2
Final Tally: 3 superb games, 2 games under 80, 1 game under 60, and one historically bad performance.
Leftwhich’s one playoff game (a blowout loss to NE) is 61.1. Which is actually higher than Roethlisberger’s first PO game.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I like about statistics
Is that they can be used however you want them to depict. My way of looking at Ben’s playoff ratings:
Rookie Quarterback in Playoffs: 67.95
Veteran Quarterback in Playoffs: 94.14
Couple questions: How many rookie quarterbacks have been in the playoffs lately? Care to guess?
How many 26-year olds have seven playoff games under their belts?
I love statistics.
by maryrose on Aug 26, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good question kwoog
My answer is I don’t think so. The Steelers took those games and many others in the past couple of years on Roethlisberger’s arm and heart. All I can say, is that as a fan who lived through Niel O’Donnell and Kordell Stewart, guys who I think had better teams behind them then the 05 team, you just never had the confidence that they would find a way to win. When they made a mistake it usually meant the end of the team. When Roethlisberger makes one, it usually means that he is about to get really mad and take it out on the other team. The guy is a true gamer and a pleasure to watch.
by SteelerBuddha on Aug 26, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bring logic and am called out as a drunk, and the reality of why I hate the steelers is vindicated even further. Do you a favor and leave? Why so you can go back to your disilusionment of assuming you have the 3rd best QB in the league in "Big" Ben. Keep dreaming… Can you feel the hate;)
Popularity contest? Ya I devote my life into saying what people want to hear so I can be "POPULAR" LMAO I hate the steelers, if you think I am here to be popular among this fan base, your crazy?
Ben gets carried by his team and the officials in the SB after one of the worst performances by a QB in the history of the game, and folks insist on giving him credit for the win. UNFRIGGINBELIEVABLE
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i like
how you used Ben’s stats against good and bad defenses, but then you didn’t show Byron’s splits for similar performance. Hardly an analysis. You showed Byron’s last 16 games, without the caveat of who he played against. Then you ignored Ben’s last 16 games, but showed his worst and best performances from that season. I’m all for analysis, but you have to show it both ways man, come on. Furthermore, TDs aren’t really a great indicator of his ability against better pass defenses. What if they threw the ball to get downfield, then ran the ball in? I’m not saying this happened (I don’t know for sure), I’m just saying you left a ton of holes in your argument, so much so that it makes it so you didn’t even make a point. If you are trying to say Byron is better than Ben, you still haven’t shown any reason why. Show Byron’s stats from his “last 16 games” that you referenced, against good and bad pass defenses, like you did for Ben.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jags
With all due respect, we do like having Byron as a back-up in Pittsburgh. He is a former number one draft pick, who is still young and has had a reasonable (if not stellar) career. I think you are right that he struggled to make a name for himself in a run first system (somewhat like Ben at first).
But I don’t think its just our overwhelming passion for our team which makes Steeler fans believers in Big Ben.
Its not just the very nice numbers he put up. Its the heart.
Lets just take a game that I am sure you’ll remember. Last years playoff game against your Jags. Sure Ben put the team in a big whole by throwing three interceptions in the first half, but he was also without his strar running back and didn’t have much choice but to throw.
The fourth quarter rally that he led was absolutely stunning. If only they could have let him go back out to play defense, I am petty sure he could have a tackled Garrard (who lets face it is much slower than Nick Harper).
Seriously though, look at the number of fourth quarter rallies, look at the way he responded to the motorcycle accident and appendectomy, or watch him shake off a couple linebackers and DE, and then throw the ball 40 yards in the air to hines, look at how he braved playing behind a porous and frankly dangerous o-line.
the guy is a winner…..
by SteelerBuddha on Aug 26, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
There’s no news in Jags and Browns land, or at least none that any of their fans want to discuss.
kwoog, usually you’re more respectful on here than on this thread, but if were me, I would have banned you for calling Hines Ward scum. Apparently, Blitz is more forgiving that I am.
And, Jagsbch, I don’t know what logic you’re bringing, but, Ben’s career numbers so far outshine Byron’s. Byron is just too slow and has too slow of a release to be a starter in this league. Even the stats that you bring are hard to pay attention to, because your very first post was so obnoxious. First of all, Ben’s not generally being discussed as a top 5 QB, but we here have hopes that he is very close to making that case in the next three years. There’s a difference between saying we think he will be and saying that he already is. You, apparently, think that Leftwich already is a top 5 QB, although he’s been released for two years straight, and nobody wanted to sign him this year except as a backup.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 26, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Figured I could get away with more since this thread is so far down the page… ;D
I think the “scum” comment is all I said that even approximated disrespect. However, there is one player from the Steelers, past and present, who I have zero respect for: Hines Ward. I feel I won’t need to iterate this point again, so I’ll drop it, but it was inevitably coming out if I was going to stick around.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that might be the case.
You can hate him all you want, and call him scum on a Browns’ (or Ravens or Cowboys or Patriots) blog, but here, it’s pretty disrespectful IMO. Others on here may not care so much, but I just think it’s over the line.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 26, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not alone
Just got home from work over here and checking in…that comment was over the line. Dislike our players all you damn well want, but keep that kind of junk to yourself. I don’t know if I’d even call Belicheat scum, evil yes, scum no. I wouldn’t pull up to someone else’s table and cuss out their family either.
by SCSteeler on Aug 26, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might call Belicheat scum. ;)
But, not on a Pats website.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 26, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously kwoog
Don’t you have anything better to do than to than make precise incisions into arguments that don’t concern you or any teams you like on another team’s fan board :D? Why are you here ;) ? Do I sneak around on the Browns message board :)~ and wait for someone to say something about how great Eric Wright is going to be, and then act all friendly ;D and meek 8o) like I had no other choice but to point out slight inconsistencies in arguments ;D? If we post something about the Browns, feel free to chime in :). Also, feel free to join :-) discussions in which you wish to gain knowledge of your teams adversary. But don’t get involved in these stupid :-)~ conversations in which you repeat what you’ve said before like 12 times to different people, or attacking homer comments, or attacking our pessimistic comments with your homer comments, etc etc etc.
Face it, you’re trolling with a smile so you don’t get banned.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, actually I’m just bored at work.
But duly noted. It’s your guys’ board, I’m not trying to incite. And my civility isn’t fake. I don’t know what I’m saying that I’ve repeated 12 times before. In this thread I argued against an argument, not a player (the stupid “how many ’Bowls does Byron have?!” thing). And I disrespected Hines, but only after providing a rationale. If that, along w/ the multiple other positive football contributions I’ve made to this site, is trolling in your book, sobeit.
by kwoog on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
likewise
….bored at work. I have no problem with it kwoog. I tried not to come down too hard on you in the Hines Ward argument, the deepest “dig” I threw was referencing Kellen Winslow’s outrageous “soldier” comments from his college days. That being said, you have to understand any negative comment you make is going to come under fire (which I think you do); it’s precisely like being the only Steeler fan in the Dawg Pound. I heard a story from a Browns fan friend (ugh) of mine who saw a Steeler fan in the Dawg Pound, and had his jacket lit on fire simply because the Steelers were winning and he was talking “just some mild smack” (words of the Browns fan who was there, not mine).
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys take shit way too seriously,
So he called hines ward scum. He’s entitled to his opinion, he backed up why he thinks that way, and if it incites argument or discussion so be it, we are still two weeks away from the start of the season, and good arguments are entertaining. When I’m bored at work I like to come on here because the conversations vary. I like a little discension and kwoog brings that.
Are our hearts all too fragile to hear that a Brown’s fan, who is generally respectful, feels a certain way about one of our players that we might not agree with? Let’s grow up a little on here and act like the adults that I’m used to seeing on here.
You would have banned him Wolfpack? C’mon, those are pretty harsh words considering all he did was call Hines Ward scum, and actually offered evidence as to why he feels this way.
I choose to call Hines Ward damn good. He is not the fastest or tallest reciever, but his intangibles make him awe inspiring, whether its laying out a loud-mouthed Bart Scott with a bang bang blindsided block, or making the 13 yard, ‘cross the middle 1st down reception, knowing your gonna get your bell rung, getting said bell rung, and popping up smiling afterwards. He’s our undersized (insert all-star hockey enforcer, who can still play’s name here).
Ben has every opportunity to show that he is a top five QB this year or the next. byron has every opportunity to make that clipboard his bitch. He will own that clipboard, and will sport that sideline ballcap like he was made to wear it!
Lighten up y’all. We’re mature enough to hear criticisms of our beloved Steelers without resorting to out and out crazy-talk. SCSteeler said he didn’t know if he’d categorize BeliCheat as scum?!?!
Now that is just crazy talk. The only time that anyone should ever categorize Belicheat as anything other than scum is when he is refered to as “less than scum”, as he give scum a bad name.
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on Aug 28, 2008 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I think kwoog knows he has a free pass around here forever. Like you said, he’s always entertaining, informative, polite, etc. Nothing wrong with saying you hate Hines Ward, even if it’s a position that I couldnt disagree about more. Maybe some took offense to the word ‘scum’, and that too is understandable. Not the best choice of words, but it’s not over the top and unacceptable either.
Anyway, no big shakes on anyone’s part. I don’t really think any one person was overly out of line in this thread, even the Jags fan, who was just trying to get a rise our of some folks.
by Blitzburgh on Aug 28, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, like I said, Blitz is more forgiving than I am. And, once he explained himself further, I was fine just letting him know that I thought it was over the line.
I don’t go to other teams’ sites and call their players scum, so I’d rather not have it done here. I don’t think that stating that is any more harsh than calling Ward scum. I said my peace to kwoog, and he admitted that he was pushing the envelope since it was such a long thread. Anyway, I’m ready to let it go, now.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 28, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know it's crazy
…but he IS evil. I’ve called the hooded one much worse in fact, but…..
Scum, I don’t know – just think of depravity when I think of scum (similar to the whole thuggery thing last week I suppose) – and basically I’m gonna stand up for our guys in almost any discussion like that. Face to face and not on the web and I’m sure I’d let go with a few choice words too, in the spirit of debate of course, but that’s just me…
Like I said, I don’t care if he posts every reason why he hates Hines – we can enjoy throwing it all back in his or anyone’s face – that’s good stuff. But (to me) I just see calling the man scum for playing hard and making defences cry is out of line, wrong-headed, and looserish – maybe even posted with a big old pooched-out pout about how often Hines jacks up the Browns.
Anyway….I still say that was out of line, but it’s his opinion – like lips and @$$#*les.
by SCSteeler on Aug 28, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kwoog
I don’t respect Bernie Kosar
by bradyquinnsclipboard on Aug 26, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is why you can't compare careers
Byron was on a team with a HC who seemed to pride himself with having the record # of most consecutive games without scoring 30 points. JDR is a defensive minded HC, who loves to play the game inside the LB’s. This is why Matt Jones is so disgruntled JDR is trying to use him as a possession receiver who is forced to make plays going right at the MLB, this is a converted QB mind you. It is like asking RM to stop being a deep threat and being a dink and dunk possession WR.
Byron and JDR had a falling out to the point he was cut 9 days prior to the season last year for a reason. It was purely vendetive on JDR’s part who did everything in his power to disperage Byron with illogical nonsense as him being a negative knucklehead to him reaching a plateau with his skills.
What JDR did was show how his ego stood in the way of not only the best interest of the team, but players when you consider how he forgoes the concept of tapping into and polishing the strengths of players on his team. JDR was too busy trying to fit a circle into a triangle rather than making the best with what he had. His actions are inexcusable in my book.
Byron never got to take control of the offense or be allowed to pose himself as a deep threat in the league, Last I checked these two facets of his game where his two biggest stregnths, JDR took those strengths away until he was forced to utilize them when the team fell behind, and by then he usually abandoned the run to leave Byron out there on his own to carry the team.
2005 season best reflected what Byron brings to the table when he is allowed to pose himself as a deep threat.
His passing percentages are in the 50"s in every quarter but the 3rd where it is 67%
Byron has 12 times the passess for 20+ yards than he has in the first.
Byron has 2/3rds the yards in the 3rd than in the first
2/3rds more FD’s
1 TD in the first 7 in the 3rd
His rating doubled from the first quarter to 128. 3. It was 137.5 but for some reason the ratings changed last year…
Byron did not have an INT in all the quarters but the 4th in which he had 5 out of 10 games and that had more to do with the situations he was put in with the relatively predicatible run abandoning style JDR brought to the table…
Again trying to compare a guys stats where his hands where tied most of the game, to a guy who is allowed to go all out is really not going to give you a balanced comparison.
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A 50-50 run/pass split is hardly “going all out.” So, thank you, but no, argument rejected.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still didn't
respond to my post. This most recent post of yours simply says Byron was better in the 3rd quarter than Byron in the 1st quarter. Ok, so let’s humor the “can’t make a comparison because Byron’s hands were tied” argument, even though I disagree, because the Steelers are a run-first team also. So on what basis do you think Byron is better than Ben, if we can’t compare them with stats? Just on your pure opinion?
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben's first year and in 2005
There were controls on his game from the coaches – it wasn’t until Arians came along that he was supposedly allowed to get more control of the play calling, and even then you have to consider our own predisposition towards the run.
My biggest criticism against Lefty with our team is that he is gonna get creamed by defenses with our line blocking for him, because he isn’t mobile enough. I think the best argument that you’re not making (or that I didn’t see you make) might be that Lefty didn’t have the same quality receivers, but not being a study of the Jags…I’m not in the position to really talk on this subject.
On the subject of the super bowl, Ben made some clutch plays in that game that kept drives alive, and he did score even if it was a run (replay says so!). Obviously not his best game at QB.
On the subject of the seesaw year last season, while I agree that obviously he did do better against against “poorer” competition (who doesn’t? the Browns don’t that’s who!) – a major factor for us last year was the line, and how often he was in the dirt. The fact that he kept us in games, won games, had a career year, got us to the playoffs, and almost brought us back to beat you guys even with the open door policy on the line says he’s damn good.
I admit that Lefty probably got a bum deal being cut by the Jags, and that he is a better QB than league minimum – he should be a starter in Chicago probably, but I totally disagree that he’s in the same league as Ben.
by SCSteeler on Aug 26, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t even start to compare the steelers passing in the first half with what Byron had to deal with in Jacksonville. There is not comparison.
Look at Byrons first half passes for 20+ yards in 2005 for example
8 first half
22 second half
Look at Bens last year
24 first half
18 second half
It is clear that Ben had the majority of his deep completions in the first half while Byron nearly had 2/3rds less action in the first half. Again this is a matter of talking about the most ultra conservative team in the league. Jaguars are the best rushing offense the past 2 consecutive seasons for a reason…
Byrons rating when we are behind 9-16 points is 105.4 this shows exactly what I am talking about, because JDR would only allow byron to be in his element when the team was behind. When we where ahead by the same factor Byrons QB rating was 39.6
Funny thing is Bens numbers are worst when the team is behind by the same factor than when they are ahead. Ben has 104.3 rating when ahead and 84.4 when behind. Is there some padding going on here or what?
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about pointing out when and where Byron is actually better than Ben?
All I see you doing is slicing and dicing stats until you can winnow all the crap down to some sliver that might hint at a possible defense of your argument. Nobody here is saying that Jax isn’t run-first. But that argument doesn’t fly here, son, because the Steelers are run-first, too.
In fact, looking at the numbers, your argument is simply false.
2007 PIT 442 Runs, 511 PA, 953 total plays, 46.4% run, 53.4% pass
2007 JAX 469 Runs, 522 PA, 991 total plays, 47.3% run, 52.7% pass
So…. I don’t accept your argument one single iota. Care to try again?
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops
in both cases, i swapped columns when transcribing.
Retotalled:
2007 PIT 442 PA, 511 runs, 953, 46.4% pass, 53.4% rush
2007 JAX 469 PA, 522 runs, 991, 47.3% pass, 52.7% rush
As you can PLAINLY see, Pittsburgh actually RAN MORE than Jacksonville did last year.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok so
Byron has a better rating when his team is behind. In fact, your numbers prove that the Jags are a better team WITHOUT Byron as a QB, because they were winning games by 9-16 points while he was putting up a 39.6 passer rating…….it’s just as likely Byron was “padding” his stats when his team was down 16 and the game was out of reach late in the 4th quarter and the other defense just goes prevent and lets them get short completions while running the clock out.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"There are three kinds of liars - liars, damn liars and statisticians" - Mark Twain
Ben is loved in PGH to the tune of $102 million. Unlike his contemporaries he is old school, school of hard knocks, with a make it by the seat of his pants mentality (see Maxim article). PGH eats this up. I think Leftwich could be liked in PGH, if he delivered, but he won’t get the chance as long as Ben is healthy (collective knock-on-wood).
Ben’s stats may not have always rivaled the “elite” QB’s in the league, as we rush more than anybody, but Ben’s make something out of nothing capability, buying time and making a play, is unrivaled. Like that clutch bomb he connected on in SB XL to the 3 yard line, then he ran it in for the TD.
Ben came on very strong statistically last year, and we expect that to continue. His game is continuing to evolve as he is only 26, they are adding playmakers to his arsenal, and the offense is now his to run.
by herewegosteelers on Aug 26, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed!!
I’m not a big stat guy. Heck, other than the Steelers and their opponents, I could give a darn about whose doing the best in a stat somewhere else. Obviously not a fantasy football fan, if I played FF I’d loose because I would just have the Steelers or former Steelers…
While some discount the results and argue that contributing towards championships doesn’t mean anything – or even that win-loss doesn’t matter – I just can’t agree. Even when stats say that someone wasn’t the best (same arguments concerning Bradshaw in another thread) the final results matter and that player contributed. I think comparing stats is pointless IMO as the question is moot – Ben is our #1 QB, and Lefty is our backup – for now. If Ben learns anything from Lefty then good, that’s one job of the backup QB anyway – to scout while on the sideline and give tips to the QB that he can’t see….he’s on our team, and he might even have to start. I hope he does well, and hope he doesn’t have to play either.
by SCSteeler on Aug 26, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Boston who has the best rushing offense the past 2 consecutive seasons? Jaguars
Again it is not the # of passes or runs, it is the type, again JDR took away the greatest asset of Byrons game, which was his deep passing threat ability until the team was behind. When you are running up the score on teams 34-7, 26-3, 21-0, 38-7, 41-24
You have the luxury of running to ball to run the clock out.
Steelers are not a run first team…
Rams 211 passing 85 rushing
Ravens 147 passing 44 rushing
Buf 155 passing 84 rushing
Cards 89 passing 17 rushing
Play-off game against the Jags
126 passing 24 yards rushing
I can go on and on and on to prove the Steelers are no longer a run first team.
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
on and on and on?
you just picked 5 of our lowest rushing output games. AND you only showed the first half statistics!!!! you are a hack man. Besides even the best running teams in the league normally pass for more yards than they run in any given game. in the Rams game we finished with 166 yards rushing, 259 yards passing. Which means we ran for almost the same number of yards in the second half as the first half. Oh and “run-first” doesn’t mean you run more in the first half necessarily, it means your better offensive weapon is the running game. Even last year teams focused on Parker and our running game more than the passing game. That will probably change going into this year since Ben put up good passing numbers and our plethora of receiving options.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i absolutely dare you
to post the stats I asked for earlier.
Ben’s performances against weaker and stronger pass Defenses (like you previously posted), side by side with Byron against weaker and stronger pass defenses. You won’t do it.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can go on and on and on to prove the Steelers are no longer a run first team.
You didn’t even start. That was last year’s numbers. They ran more. That’s what those totals mean. Simple math here, I know they don’t teach y’all so good down in Floryduh, so I’ll try and keep it simple.
Hey Boston who has the best rushing offense the past 2 consecutive seasons? Jaguars
Absolutely, positively meaningless to this argument. It has not even a single shred of relevance.
Steelers are not a run first team…
Wrong. We ran approximately 53.4% of the time.
Play-off game against the Jags
126 passing 24 yards rushing
Has 100% more to do with the effectiveness of the Jagoffs’ run D than it does with the will of the Steelers to run. Oh, and our Pro-bowl running back was out of the game, I’m sure that isn’t even a little bit important, though.
Listen: you’re outmatched and outclassed here. If you can’t come up with a solid argument, I’m sorry, but whining on and on about how the Steelers are a passing team adds no credibility to your ridiculous assertion that Lefty is a better passer, or QB, than Ben.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 26, 2008 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just picked 5 of our lowest rushing output games. AND you only showed the first half statistics!!!!
Parker had 126 yards against the Bills over 190 rushing?
Davenport had 123 yards against the Rams over 170 rushing?
That is over 330 yards in 2 games… I only showed first half statistics to prove why you all are not a run first team any more by splitting big rushing games with not so big rushing games.
In one game last season, the Jags gave up over 250 yards rushing. It is not as if the Jaguars had a top 10 rushing defense last season. Maroney burned them for 122 yards the game right after you all played them in the play-offs, and it is not as if NE has this awesome rushing offense either… Rhodes had 115 yards rushing after the first match up between the Steelers and Jags. The reason I even threw in the Jaguars game in was dew to the fact it was the last game you all played.
Point is you all are evolving with revolution of the sophisticated offenses in the league. There is nothing wrong with that. I find it refreshing to see a team reinvent itself. Thing that has me concerned is that Ben is not going to be the optimal weapon you all need especially given the strength of schedule to maintain a high caliber passing offense. This is where Byron comes in…
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NE offense
No they don’t have a high power running game, they’re a passing team and that’s probably what your D was keyed against, so the evil one in his lair in the northeast says….ah ha! They’ll never expect this…Run baby run! Voila…no?
by SCSteeler on Aug 26, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and as I've said and will say again
your stats prove nothing at all. you have not once shown ANYTHING that would say Byron is a better QB than Ben. ‘the Curtain is a place for posters who can make a point. Make one AND back it up, or get out of here……heck your stats help me prove my point…..we had 170 yards rushing against the Rams and 190 against the Bills. Those are rush numbers of a team that has an excellent running offense. And Ben still has a great QB rating. You said Byron was handicapped by a running offense, then you just showed stats that the Steelers also have a very good running attack. You were trying to say we are pass first because we passed for more yards than we ran for? Nearly every offense in the league passes for more total yards (and in most given halves) than they run for. That doesn’t make them pass first, that’s just the nature of a pass. They are on average longer gains. So even if you run more than you pass (in terms of attempts) you’ll probably have more passing yards.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA? SC, You obvisouly are at a loss with exactly how many rushing yards Maroney had in his last 6 games last season prior to the SB. Does 550 ring a bell? He had over 100 yards rushing in two of the 3 games prior to the Jaguars playing them. He had 2 TD’s the game prior to playing the Jags… As if they did not know what was coming…
Oh and "run-first" doesn’t mean you run more in the first half necessarily, it means your better offensive weapon is the running game
You had 34 passing TD’s and over 3400 yards last season
You had 9 rushing TD’s and 1968 rushing minus Bens scrambling yards…
Now how in the hell does that equate to having a better running game than passing game when you have nearly 4 times the passing TD’s? Just because you run more than pass does not mean it is better, especially when you are running more at the end of the game than beginning.
Fact is you are rushing more at the end of games than you are at the beginning.
Fact is you are passing less in the second half than you do in the first.
News flash the Steelers are a pass first offense.
ROTFLMAO it takes a Jaguars fan to tell you what you are?
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't swallow what you're thinking....
…because my body is allergic to stupidity…………as I just said, teams always have more passing yards than rushing yards. we also used a ton of passing plays in the red zone because teams loaded up against the run. and yes, we run more at the end of games, when we have a lead, because our running game is so good it can protect the lead. it’s simple football strategy. we certainly are a balanced offense (or pretty close) but as BostonWahoo pointed out, we ran the ball more than we passed, and yes, that does make us run-first, that means the team is more likely to run a running play than a passing play. Your arguments are so asinine, I’m done with you, you haven’t yet shown ONE reason in any way that Byron is better than Ben, and you’ve avoided every time I’ve asked you to show some side by side stats, because you know what will happen. The only difference between you and a poster who used to be around here named Wiggins, is that you format your posts properly. Otherwise, complete garbage.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...I'm confused...
Earlier you posted, “it is not as if NE has this awesome rushing offense either,” in respect to your Jags rushing defense not being so great in reference to our lack of a rushing attack against the Jags in the playoffs. Now you’re saying NE does have a great rushing attack?
At any rate, my point – poorly made – nothing new there – is that NE’s overpowering passing attack opens up the field for Maroney. Go ahead and defend against the run with those guys, but you might want to check out our game versus them last year before you do (ref – Anthony Smith). When we played you guys you must consider the line problems and missing FWP.
I actually agree with you about our offence sliding away from the run towards passing, but in my opinion that has a lot more to do with having Ben as the QB – his skill and ability at QB lead the team to invest in getting new and improved receivers and in putting more of the game in his hands versus running as much. Rushing in the second half to protect a lead, draw down the game, and wear our the opposing defense was on of the Cowher cornerstones – and it worked well. I’m not getting into the symantics of whether we are run-first or not, but you have to realize that traditionally we are run-focused.
Also, I am now remembering some of what you’re talking about in terms of Lefty coming back at the end of games. For a few years that was almost a hallmark for you guys – coming back at the post to just edge out the game, but do you really think that was the game plan from your coach? I admit that the guy who decides to put a log and an axe in a locker room has a few issues, but I find it hard to believe that the “take the gloves off” in the 4th quarter idea was their strategy.
by SCSteeler on Aug 27, 2008 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last I checked run first means using the run to set up the pass.
Fact Steelers are passing more in the first half than they do in the second.
Fact Steelers are rushing more at the end of games than they are at the beginning.
Fact Steelers have nearly 1/3 more passing attempts in the first half than Rushing attempts.
Therefore if the Steelers no longer use the run to set up the pass, they can no longer be considered a run first team any more, right?
Furthermore the Steelers had 34 passing TD’s and over 3,400 passing yards last season. But they only had 9 rushing TD’s and 1,968 rushing minus Bens scrambling yards…
The Steelers have nearly 4 times the passing TD’s as rushing? Outside of the WR’s gimmick plays and QB’s scrambling play’s you are looking at only less than a dozen more rushing attempts when it is all said and done.
Conclusion the Steelers are riding the wave sweeping across the NFL which has it evolving to being highly sophistication and highly aggresive with the passing offense, while maintaining balance with the rushing game as well at the end of the game to protect the lead while running out the clock and keeping the ball out of the opponents hands.
I like it.
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
even under Cowher
for his 15 years with the team, we actually passed alot early in games (or closer to 50/50) and then run later in games. in fact, that’s the formula most winning teams follow. Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders has shown lots of stats about this. Cowher seemed to have caught on a LONG time ago, and Tomlin seems to know the same thing. We are still a “run-first” team, because we WIN games with the ability of the run. If you can’t run the ball late in the game, other teams will catch up with you. We didn’t suddenly change in 2007. We were successful with Ben as our QB 3 of his 4 years as a starter, playing in pretty much the same system, the offense did not change much at all last year, besides some tweaks.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moral of the story Be Glad you have Byron to step up
When the heat comes to a head. The man has the metal to withstand it.
You can't swallow what I'm thinking...
by Jagsbch on Aug 26, 2008 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I take back
the Wiggins comment. Byron and his “metal” will be on the bench.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear the US won the most gold mettles this year. Its too bad, though, that Phelps’ legs weren’t made of medal, because he absolutely has the metal to be a great robot swimmer.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 27, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the US
came in second in gold medals, far behind China. The US won the overall medal race. Unless I am misunderstanding your post and missing sarcasm :)
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that whizzing sound that went by your head? my post. ;)
mettle – emotional stamina
medal – award
metal – any of a group of elements characterized by a high valence number, malleability, and heat and electrical conductivity
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 27, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot
metal – a type of music noted by long hair and men with makeup
mettle – to stick your jacksonville nose into steeler business
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant meddle. ;)
I’m taking off my grammar police badge right now, though, I swear.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 27, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn
i was just about to change that. Bah, dumb mistake and it lessens my trash talk.
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean it lessons your trash talk?
/really just kidding
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 27, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
know whey man
lesson is wat won gets learnt in skool
lessen is wat Leftwich does two hour Steeler team
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRATE!
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 27, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, this has
been the most unbelievable thread that I think I have ever seen. This argument has become so absurd that its beyond comprehension. Your arguments are some of the most idiotic posts I’ve ever read. You don’t have real stats to back up your argument of Byron being better than Ben, so instead you go on to to try to prove how Byron got a raw deal and why his stats are worse. That’s what your stats try to show, to little avail.
Your whole argument is textbook misdirection.
You start with the ridiculous comment above that Leftwich is better than Ben, then when real stats are shoved in your face, you change directions and get everyone on here to start arguing whether or not we are a run-first team, and whether or not Stinkwich got a raw deal in Jax. Fact is, no one here cares. If he truly was close to an elite QB, which is hard to even type out seriously, then why did he not make the cut in Atlanta??? Does JDR coach there too? Did he call Petrino and tell him not to give Leftwich a chance? I guess he got a raw deal there too. Or maybe Joey Harrington and Chris Redmon are elite QBs and he just couldn’t compete. Hmm. No and No. He worked out for Tennessee, why didn’t they keep him on? Wait, I have it. There a Barry Bonds-like conspiracy to keep him out of the NFL, that’s why no one picked him up this offseason until a QB went down. That’s it. 32 teams all colluded to keep one lousy QB down. Sorry, but the fact is, Ben is a far better player and athlete than Leftwich could ever hope to be. I normally don’t respond to trolls, but the way that you got everyone diverted from the original issue and the way that you have still not responded to TMVT’s challenge to show actual stats that prove he is better, not stats to prove why he got a bad deal just could not be ignored. For a backup, I would take Charlie over Byron any day of the week. Charlie knows this offense and has rarely, if ever lost a game that he started for us.
Also, ask anyone who is not a Steeler fan or a Jags fan who is better. You will probably get laughed at for asking, but give it a try. Oh, and after you get laughed at for that, ask anyone whether or not the Steelers are a pass first team. I can hear it now. ‘The Steelers are a run first team.’ “Nuh-uh. In the first 3 plays of the 3rd 5 minutes of the 2nd half of the 1st 4 games during last year, they passed 51.7% of the time.”
Lastly, I would be willing to wager that your argument would be highly offensive to Leftwich himself. Most honorable players don’t make excuses as to why they have failed, they just go out and try to change it.
Please go back to writing about Matt Jones’ coke use, I’m sure its much more interesting than the drivel you have to say here.
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nicely put
ark, as always. I hate getting dragged into these, it was just too easy to throw the actual stats back in his face and he kept changing stances, while I kept asking for some side by side comparison of Ben & Byron.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 27, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Browns will beat Steelers twice in 08
Browns much better than Steelers
orangegeorge
by orangegeorge on Aug 27, 2008 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
like I was saying about trolls…
by steelerark on Aug 27, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey
at least his seemed sarcastic, and
by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 28, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comedy value of that contribution is through the roof…
by SCSteeler on Aug 28, 2008 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with that
No, really. Let us know how that turns out.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 28, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
It will be a historic occasion if the Brownies actually do beat the Steelers this season.
Last Browns win over the Steelers: Oct 5, 2003
Stretching this back to 2002, the Steelers have won 12 of 13, including one playoff game in 02. That year, we actually beat the Browns thrice (note to orangegeorge: that means three times).
This was compelling for me to investigate, so I did some more digging:
Since Art the Fart packed his trailer and drug it, scraping and screeching, to Baltimore for the 96 season, the Steelers and Brownies have met 19 times: 1999 – 2007 @ 2 each plus one playoff game.
The record over that time: Steelers 16, Browns 3.
You have go back even further, however, to find a Browns team that would win the season series with the Steelers:
1988.
1988 was the last year that the Steelers went 0-2 vs. the Browns. Apparently they sought to overcome The Drive and The Fumble by beating The Steelers. I guess we can see how that worked out for them. Since 1988 the overall record is 26-10, but against this team, the New Era Browns, we have domination, 16-3 . Romeo Crennel is our bitch, with his record against us standing firm at 0-6. There are 4 Browns players who have beaten the Steelers as a Brown, all holdovers from the 03 squad: Steve Heiden (TE not named Kellen Winslow), Andra Davis (MLB), Phil Dawson (K), and Ryan Pontrbriand, who is a long snapper. Thanks to maryrose we all now know how important that position is.
So please, orange crush or whatever you call yourself, please don’t attack us with your kicker or longsnapper.
I don’t think we could stand it.
Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.
by BostonWahoo on Aug 28, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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