Justin Hartwig vs Sean Mahan = No Contest

by jason97673 on Aug 5, 2008 1:03 PM EDT Comment 19 comments

Well as training camp continues, the center position on the OLine SHOULD have been decided at the end of last year. And the starting center should be anyone but Mahan.

Take a look at how Sean Mahan performed against DTs and NTs last season.

The following article indicates that statistically the opposing DT or NT had there "best game of the season" against Mahan.

As the article says Warning: Sean Mahan was actually MUCH worse than you even thought……

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=2567

Ouch

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Some Numbers

Vonnie Holiday – Only 2 sacks all year, 1 against the Steelers.
DeWayne Robertson – 4 sacks all year, 2.5 against the Steelers
Wilfork – 2 sacks all year, 1 against the Steelers
Alvin McKinley – 2 sacks all year, 1 against the Steelers
Domata Peko – 1.5 sacks all year, 1 against the Steelers

These are some examples

And now, 9 DT’s/NT’s had atleast 6 tackles against the Steelers. These guys are not supposed to get that many tackles. Average might be 3 not 6 or 7. If I had to guess, most of these tackles were from Mahan getting pushed into the backfield and tackling parker for a no gain or loss.

by jason97673 on Aug 5, 2008 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

That’s all I can say, I’m speechless.
I’ve told my share of Mahan jokes but this is just gold.

by iBleedBlack&Gold on Aug 5, 2008 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What it really shows

is how bad the interior OL was. I think Simmons deserves some of the blame, and even Faneca. I remember Faneca’s whiff on Wilfork in particular that gave him 1 of 2 sacks on the year. Those pictures of Mahan were pretty funny, though.

by BadMaafala on Aug 5, 2008 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it's tough on our Guards

to have to lend a helping hand to Mahan on every play. Our line is only as strong as our weakest link.
The reason we haven’t looked this bad on the line in so long is that for the past 20 seasons or so the Steelers have had a perennial pro bowler at C. Hartings, Dawson, etc. those guys don’t need help on every play nor did they get dominated on every play like Mahan does when we play a team with an above average DT/NT.

by iBleedBlack&Gold on Aug 5, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

weakest link

Weak links affect the whole line, but if you have 4 All-Pro’s with Sean Mahan at center, you’d still have a damn good line. If one guy’s not great, his neighbor can usually pick up some slack. That’s why Simmons got on decently when Hartings was in his prime, but when Hartings started to decline and then retired, we noticed that Simmons was sub-par. Stick another sub-par (or worse) guy next to him, and now there’s nothing holding up the middle of the line.

by BadMaafala on Aug 5, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of KC Joyner’s reasons for saying the Left Tackle is the most overrated position in the sport is related to this. He argues that a line can be successful if it has one weak link anywhere (blocking can be rolled to that side), but bad lines come when the weak link is two or more. Thus, even a line w/ Walter Jones can be awful.

Leaving the Left Tackle aside, the point is still interesting: you can survive w/ one weak link, but not with more. If this is true, who would you look to as your other weak link last year (after Mahan)? This is just for the sake of argument, not meant to be definitive at all.

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mahan

wasn’t just a weak link, but a black hole. but probably Kendall Simmons.

by TheMostViolentTeam on Aug 5, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't help any,

That our weakest link by far, and “black hole” was smack dab in the middle of the offensive line…
How do we roll blocking away from the center of the tackles?
: /

by iBleedBlack&Gold on Aug 5, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may have a point.

4 All-Pro’s surrounding a bad offensive lineman could make for a good line anyways.
However we have 0 All-Pro’s nowadays.
So we are screwed.
Agree in Kendall SImmons decline, he is definitely missing Jeff Hartings to his left. Ever since Diabetes hit him he hasn’t been the same lineman..

by iBleedBlack&Gold on Aug 5, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re; 66

Faneca was perennial all pro and a member of the 75th anniversary team. He won a ring and was a leader on the OL. That said, Mahan or no Mahan I agree with your assessment of Faneca’s play last year. In a word, “horrible.” I said numerous times last year (and on these pages) that Faneca ended up turned around like a turnstile more times last year than I had seen his entire career. i believe his mind and play was elsewhere last year.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Aug 5, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

can you imagine the kind of smack talk he received on a weekly basis?
I mean when word spread around the league of how much of a pushover he is. Poor guy probably still has nightmares…

by iBleedBlack&Gold on Aug 5, 2008 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

One more thought

I think if our interior line was better, we’d be more content with Willie Colon at RT. Colon gots credited with a lot of sacks, but if you watch a lot of those sacks (PGH has a good video of that too), Colon pushes his guy wide but Ben can’t step up in the pocket, so he gets nailed.

by BadMaafala on Aug 5, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Besides those sacks, a lot of the other sacks off the tackles are because Ben is trying to make something happen. The video of the sacks shows that often times the tackles are holding on for a long time pushing their men out far and behind, but eventually they come back in to pounce on ben. You can’t ask for much more on those plays from the tackles, not to say that it is never their fault.

by steelguy99 on Aug 5, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My impression,

as well as that of the o-line coach (he was actually easier on Ben than I was), was that the protection was responsible for far more sacks than Roethlisberger. And for every sack he causes, he successfully extends at least two plays. He’s not the problem.

by Desroko on Aug 5, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never said he was a problem, I dig him, but lets admit his faults instead of nitpicking over someones post hmm?

If the O-line could hold onto their man forever I’d be very happy.

by steelguy99 on Aug 5, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I simply disagreed with it.

I don’t think it’s true that “a lot” of sacks are because he’s holding onto the ball. Nor do I think that trying to extend a play is a fault in this particular case, as it has a positive result more often than not.

by Desroko on Aug 5, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m talking specifically about sacks attributed to Colon. BadMaafala said that Colon gets attributed with more sacks than he ought to because Ben doesn’t have a pocket to hide in. I chimed in that sometimes even if there was the tackles can’t hold their man forever, and you can often see the defense coming back after them and the tackles are wrestling behind Ben.

If you think that of the sacks attributed to colon that all of them are the O-lines fault than I guess that’s your opinion, and I’ll stop arguing with people just looking to argue for the sake of it.

by steelguy99 on Aug 5, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mahan really sucks.

I knew he was bad but comon man! Giving up sacks to a NT should be a freak thing, not a twice a game thing. It just makes me think how good they could have been last year with a little room to work with in the middle. (I bet Willie would have had more than 2 TD`s) That picture of Mahan showing up to camp was priceless. He looks like some random couch potato, not a force in the middle of an NFL team. I hope he never makes it on the field this year. I just cant stomach it.

by SteelerDomination on Aug 5, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a simple solution

I’ve harped on this alot and if it pisses anyone off I apologize,but Lecharles Bently is a no risk solution;sign him to a minimum,incentive loaded contract.If he makes it back to his previous level then we have apotential all pro at center or guard,if he cant play cause of the legthen we cut him.Not rocket science.

by wmd3 on Aug 7, 2008 6:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs