A little concerned about Philly
by C-Mac on Sep 16, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
36 comments
I just finished watching the Cowboys and Eagles game and started contemplating strategies to deal with the Eagles from a Steelers prospective. Here are a few of my concerns:
It appears to me Donovan McNabb is really back. He peformed like McNabb of old. Running the football well,throwing the fooball well. But most notably he showed great poise. Also, Brian Westbrook was equally strong. Running the ball pretty well, catching the ball out of the backfield effectively, and causing the Dallas defense to play a little more attention to them. But then there was this rookie by the name of DeSean Jackson who really gave the Dallas defense fits. The guy made the Cowboys pay attention to him and caused them to back of the line of scrimmage and go more into coverage.
I love the Steelers defense but this is going to force some serious matchup problems for us. Because not only did Philly's offense look great, but they were much more explosive than I have ever seen them.
As for my thoughts on the Steelers and Browns game. I'm happy for the win but conditions or not, the Steelers have a lot of work to do. and I'm not talking about Ben, Willie, Hines, or Santonio. I'm taking about the need for a third receiver. I saw one sure catch that was thrown to Nate Washington that he dropped. That pissed me off. We cannot afford our third guy to continue to drop passes if we really want to consider ourselves to be offensively strong like some of the other superbowl front runners. And besides our good TE help , we really don't have that person. Now some of you may say the season is early. But Washington has been on the squad for a while now and he still trippin. I like him but what does like have to do with it.
Please my fellow Steeler fans, be honest and real about what Im saying and also give me your thoughts. Tough game coming up.
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3rd receiver
Washington plays just well enough for my liking, especially (as you mentioned) if Heath and Spaeth get some more rocks thrown their way, then Washington just needs to sort of exist out there and we’d be in good shape. I know you said something along the lines of “conditions or not,” but Nate is a pretty decent #3 in my book.
Nevertheless, there are certainly things to work on, and I’ll be really REALLY happy if we can keep making our weaknesses strengths and end up 3-0 in a week.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 1:59 AM EDT reply actions
on McNabb
I watched the game, and I was a bit surprised at the number of mistakes the entire Philly team made, but specifically McNabb. It would have been nice for him to wait to pull all those shenanigans for next week, but maybe some of that will carry over.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Washington is a decent #3 (#2 no, but #3 yes). Keep in mind they haven’t thrown (or needed to throw) at him much at all, which is a good sign in my book, ie read more throws to TEs, big leads and less throws in general. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I would rather not have to count on the performance of the 3rd WR to put the team over the top.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
how to stop the Eagles
Don’t tackle Westbrook by the facemask. The Cowboys took way too many penalties and gave away way too many 1st downs because of it.
You need to pressure McNabb and you need to account for Westbrook. I want to see Timmons on Westbrook the whole game. The O-Line is also going to need to play a top notch game to keep the pressure off Ben.
Don't Like Timmons on Westbrook
That sounds like a mismatch to me for the Steelers. Maybe I’m wrong and if Timmons can keep up with Westbrook then I think we win this game, period. But I think it takes someone like silverback or Troy to contain a back as good as Westbrook. That would limit either of those players (especially Troy) from reeking havic all over the rest of the Eagles O. Most importantly, if it takes Troy to slow him down, then we become more susceptible to the deep ball and Jackson.
Make no mistake, this is a good Eagles team. Pittsburgh’s O lit up a bad team and D held down a decent team, now their O is going to have to light up a good team. I think we need 30+ in Philly next weekend.
30+??
McNabb and the Eagles won’t put up 30 on our D…and if they do, we’ll lose
by TheCincinnatiConqueror on Sep 17, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Got to disagree with you there...
I do like Timmons on Westbrook – I mean I wouldn’t necessarily use him as a spy on him or anything, but as far as a LB match-up he is way, way more favorable than Harrison on Westbrook. Granted it would be great to watch Silverback flatten him on a little hitch route or something out in the flat, but there is no way he would be able to cover him down field. But, they would ask him to do that anyway; Harrison is a power pass-rusher who plays his best when playing down-hill. Now granted, it is a small sample size, but Timmons looks to have as good lateral movement as any linebacker I have ever seen, ever. I can still see him appearing out of nowhere in the preseason to form tackle AD along the sidelines on a flare route that looked like it had big play written all over it. I expect to see a lot of Timmons in this game. Clearly not at the expense of Harrison, who will still play almost every down, but rather at the expense of Foote, who has had a quiet, but solid season thus far. It is just that Timmons is a much better matchup than he. I will agree that Troy should see is share of action lined up against Westbrook, and that is as about as favorable of a matchup as we could ever hope for or expect. But that would leave Timmons (or whomever is LB) to run with L.J. Smith – that is what really makes them a very tough matchup, not just Westbrook, but the dual TE/RB threat in the pass game.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What I liked
It seems Philly is vulnerable to Tightends down the seam. This may be a sign that Philly tries to hide a weakness at Linebacker with their safeties. Our tightends are a strength of ours. Willie may not be a basher like Barber but Willie is shiftier and faster. He will give them headaches. I like our chances against their dee. We have recievers that can strecth the field. Tall tightends that can catch. Very strong running game. Hines can get open against anyones dee. Say what you will about Washington I see this as a game he can get his. I feel pretty good about our O’s chances.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
What I didn't like
McNabb is good at making the throws we have trouble defending, Derek Anderson is not. McNabb is very accurate for the most part. He throws the long ball well but is very good at moving the ball with short routes. McNabb is very good. He doesn’t throw many ints. Brian Westbrook is ridiculous. You have to give him his props. All that said….If we don’t get to McNabb it will be a long day. Not having Keisel will hurt. Just keep them out of the endzone, hope for mistakes and stretch their defense.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
bend, don't break
sounds like a familiar recipe for success. If they get 3 and we get 7, we’ll be in good shape. Oh, and of course a Jackson “fumble” on the 1 yard line would do us well!
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but,
I think you over state McNabb’s short passing efficiency. He certainly missed a number of short throws in the MNF game. Not to say that he is bad at it, but it is not his strength – clearly that is the deep ball. I think we will stand pat and continue to run a cover 2 over top of our zone-blitz scheme to limit the big plays. Force them to dink and dunk, which we have been susceptible to in the past. But I think we could/should be okay, so long as we don’t allow short throws to turn into big gains (like the scree pass to Harrison of Sunday night).
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Vs Cleveland
I was in Cleveland for the game and listen…..throw it right out the window when it comes to throwing the ball. The winds were insane. Throwing at any point was a risk and the ball certainly wasn’t flying perfectly. Hell, Hines Ward dropped at least two balls.
My point is, don’t take worry about Washington or anything that you thought went wrong with the throwing offense. It will be fine.
Eagles are tough. I like how their front four isn’t dominate on D. That helps us verse our weakness (our o-line).
With all that said, your concern is legit. We’re about to see who the real Steelers are. (and i’ll be in Vegas to watch it!)
Early line...
This game is the only line not yet posted (on my site at least)… holding out for a Big Ben status report…? Im guessing the Eagles open 2.5 point favorites.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
cowboy o-line
are supposed to be beasts, but the eagles got some serious pressure on romo, also, the eagle’s o-line was looking great in the 1st half.
A healthy mcnabb/westbrook have always been dangerous.
Eagles line
I’m not sure who, but the Eagles lost a strting lineman in the first half.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
by PixburghArn on Sep 16, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Thoughts
It will definitely be the toughest challenge so far, but on the plus side two of our hardest games are NFC opponents that don’t matter as much. If we lose those games, but dominate our division, it won’t matter. The important game against the NFC will be in February ;).
McNabb definitely takes some chances with the ball and holds on too long. This means our DB’s need to catch if they get the chance and make plays on the ball instead of just running with their guys (that’s you, Ike). I like Timmons vs. Westbrook athletically, but the vet has a lot more experience than the 2nd year guy, so we shouldn’t expect him to lock Westbrook down. Jackson is a scary dude. Reggie Brown may be back next week, but I’d be much more scared of Kevin Curtis, who shouldn’t be back. I would think Timmons should get a lot of playing time since the Eagles aren’t really a power running team. We should be able to get pressure, limit the big plays, and wait for a couple bad plays in a row (which will come) to kill drives and keep them out of the end zone.
On offense, it will be interesting to see if we can run on them. They are VERY good at swarming to the ball carrier so I’m not expecting too much on a regular basis, but if we sucessfully use the PA pass, misdirection running plays, and our new cutback based zone blocking scheme, we should be able to come up with a few big plays from the running game. They don’t have an elite pass rush, but they do blitz a lot, which will cause some problems if a guy like Kemo (they will test him) doesn’t make the right decisions and if Ben hesitates at all. Their CB’s are good, but Dawkins isn’t what he once was. Their LB’s are all oversized and not very good in coverage – Gaither should be a MLB, Bradley a SLB, and Gocong a 3-4 OLB – so hopefully Miller and Spaeth will have big days. I would think they’d also be susceptible to swing/dumpoff passes out of the backfield. Mewelde, we need you this week.
It should be a good game, and we’ll get a chance to see how we line up with a legitimate team. I predict the Steelers win 27-3, Bettis has a big day… oh wait.
charity standing orders
Ah yes
sweet, sweet 27-3.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Good analysis BadMaafala...
but I would be quite surprised if we won by 24. I hope you are right.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Bettis
will have a big day. guaranteed. at the buffet line of whatever hotel he is at.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 17, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweed?
I agree on the Nate Washington assessment, but in fairness, Hines was dropping passes that night too. But where is Limas Sweed? Is he not yet ready? Is he hurt? I figured him to have an immediate effect on the offense. Did I miss something.
As for the game in general next week, I think it’s in the hands of the secondary. McNabb looked mobile last night, so I think we’ll see a coverage oriented defense. I trust the guys up front on Westbrook. But I’m worried about Taylor, McFadden and the boys in the back.
by SteelerInVirginia on Sep 16, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply actions
Call me silly
But I think the Eagles will try Taylor more than B-Mac (or Townsend). Taylor has great ball skills (not hands) but he still plays a little cautious. Seems to be just a step late. That could back fire on Philly because Taylor has the ability to put it all together.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
by PixburghArn on Sep 16, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought McFadden looked great this past week
and I agree that Taylor will be tested since he usually does leave a big cushion. But I also agree that Taylor does have the ability to put it all together. In fact he may be the bellwether player in this game (or at least for our defensive performance
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Eagles match-up
I think a lot depends on how big ben is feeling.
He looked really good in a hurricane, but I hope he has time to practice this week. It would be nice to have him fresh and feeling good. BTW – no love for Big Ben on the Eagles board right now.
As far as I am concerned, let them all talk about how stupid he is and how he is like Trent Dilfer and the coaches won’t let him thrown more than 15 times a game. I like that, somehow, there still isn’t respect for Ben or the Stillers in certain, um, less educated parts of the football world. As they say in the beer commercials. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing.
Overrated
everyone is getting distracted by the score of that game and tricked into thinking Dallas & Philly are the class of the league…sure they are both top 7 teams, but did you see the defenses in that game? Neither Dallas or Philly’s D holds a candle to Pittsburgh’s. LeBeau won’t be worried about matching up with Philly, he’ll make Philly worry about matching up with us. We didn’t pile up sacks against Cleveland but we did get good pressure, even on a wet field (advantage for the O-Line…see Max Starks neutralizing Jason Taylor in the rain last year). Philly will have trouble with our blitzes, and our linebackers and D-Line are more disciplined, and better tacklers than Dallas’s. I stopped worrying about our secondary as long as Anthony Smith isn’t in the game.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 16, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting points
I would love to see this as another case of everyone counting Philly as the gimme win and us taking over by dominating defense and ground game. I think doing that against the good teams makes the following week the most fun possible.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're right
but I don’t think it’s going to be as easy as you think. I think the big numbers had a lot to do with familiarity (of the opposing defense) producing big plays. In Dallas’ case I think they underestimated where McNabb is (in his recovery) and Jackson surprised them. In the Eagles case, they gave Romo a lot of time. Dallas’ line has held it’s own two weeks in a row.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
“With Westbrook lining up in a variety of positions as both a runner and receiver, a defense can never be quite certain of what to expect.”
—Vic Carucci, NFL.com
Why is this supposedly so tough to defend? I would think that any legitimate NFL defense would not be completely freaked out by Westbrook lining up as a flanker or in the slot or something like that. They still only have 11 guys on the field, so just play the formation accordingly. My best guess is that it’s about mismatches, but it couldn’t be that big of a deal.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 16, 2008 2:53 PM EDT reply actions
Not that big a deal
What he’s saying is…moving him around makes you have to adjust or have a mismatch. By moving him around you not only have to account for him where he is and match up, you have to think about what mismatch the adjustment produces elsewhere. I have to admit he makes you have to play every down.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
but
our defense is an attacking defense. we rarely worry about what the offense does. we attack and if they move someone to try and force us to adjust, we attack the weakness that their movement created. then it comes down to execution.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 16, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Every team is concerned with the other's offense
That’s what film study is about. Goes back to what I said before…if we don’t get to McNabb it’s going to be a long day.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
The reason it is a matchup problem is
that you generally send out your defensive personnel based on the offensive teams personnel. You tend to want to have as many CBs as there are WRs (ie you don’t want a LB covering a WR down field) so when Westbrook is not in the back field and lining up as a flanker, you are put in a dubious position. Now, not every RB can poses that much of a threat to a LB out wide, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Westbrook does. Now you can roll your safety over into coverage, but that 1) make you susceptible to the TE running up the seam and 2) makes you susceptible to the long ball. It’s no coincidence that Philly is quite successful at both of those. You can also try to cover-up those mismatches with zone coverage, but now you are more susceptible to the quick WR screens and such. Clearly, none of these scenarios are deal-breaker-game-over-why-even-try situations, but it does make you have to try to out guess the offense and/or be one step ahead.
The great equalizer of course is pressuring the QB, but that comes with its own risks (and rewards).
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Sep 17, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense. Thanks for the rundown.
Brandona
by PrimantisStillersNAt on Sep 17, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
personally
i think this is going to be this year’s super bowl matchup. The Eagles could still get healthier and with a full season of momentum and cohesion that offense is going to be dangerous. With Brady out, we are no doubt the team to beat in the Winners’ Circle (AFC).
by TheCincinnatiConqueror on Sep 17, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions
I think
Eagles are in for a big surprise. Unlike Dallas and Philly, who both opened up their offensive playbooks the first two weeks; Pittsburgh has shown VERY little. They have won with just being physical and dominating people, on both sides of the ball. Haven’t seen no-huddle or two tailbacks on offense, haven’t seen alot of blitzes on defense…..not saying it will be a blowout, but I see us winning this one by an OK margin.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 17, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
filthy thinks they have a Superbowl winning year in store, but...
they’re in for a rude surprise in filthy on Sunday. Steelers D is for real, and our O will mix it up and open it up Sunday.
I like our chances in this one to stun the filthy faithful and cause the national media and fans to take note.
by herewegosteelers on Sep 17, 2008 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
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