Is it tougher for coaches to insert inexperienced offensive linemen than it is to change the depth chart on defense?
We had a somewhat light-hearted post to start the day, followed by a rambling examination of some patterns that formed last year. Now, let's collectively address a question that I have after writing the previous post, and after talking with y'all about the team's insistence on sticking with the starting five we have along the line, barring injury.
Brett Keisel vs. Darnell Stapleton.
That's a weird pairing you might ask. What's the connection? Well, neither was particuarly well sought after leaving college for starters - Keisel was a 7th round pick while Stapleton went undrafted. And neither played much at all their rookie year. Keisel appeared in one game while Stapleton did not dress once. Yet, by year two, Keisel was getting plenty of snaps. A starter? No. But a part of LeBeau's substition patterns on a limited basis.. Think Nick Eason from a year ago. It should be noted that Keisel got most of his playing time in year two on special teams, but not exclusively. And by year three, Keisel was inserted frequently on defense.
Now, Stapleton is just in his second year and his bulky endomorphic frame is not conducive to the fast pace of special teams. So when it's his turn, it'll be the real deal. On the line, asked to protect a $100+ million dollar asset.
He may very well not be ready. I'm not at practice, and if I was, I'm not positive it would be clear how to distinguish between him, Essex, et al.
Here's my general question though. I'm not trying to just bang on the drum of 'change for change's sake'. I'm really not. But I am curious why we wouldn't want to throw all our guys out there, particularly the younger ones, to see how they respond. You never know how a young player waiting for his chance will respond. Essex, last year for example, played great in the playoff game. Starks responded well against Miami and Cincy after waiting patiently for his turn. Why not see what happens this time around.
But we've been there before. My question is do you guys think coaches are more reluctant to take a 'risk' with an inexperienced player on offense, particularly the line, than they are putting someone raw out there on defense? A guy like Brett Keisel was able to make a name for himself with the coaching staff fairly early in his career, quickly negating whatever negative baggage came along with his unimpressive draft status. I sure hope we see what we have in some of the other guys on offense that have yet to get their chance, or have gotten very few thus far this year and in year's past.
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just a random question/post
Haven’t been able to do much daytime writing lately. Just doing my thing, nevermind me if that post makes no sense.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t matter, you are keeping all of us entertained in the lead-up to monday with plenty to think about. Very well done this past week, I’ve enjoyed it.
by steelguy99 on Sep 26, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
Tryin my best. Getting settled into a new city is time consuming :) Big game for us this week!
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the difference comes from the offensive vs. defensive system. If you have a 5-man front and a weak link, the defense can attack it repeatedly with almost no fallout. On defense if there is a weak link it will be attacked but cannot be attacked every down and can be more easily compensated. If a DE/DT is weak you bring in your LBs/Troy to help out. All you can really do with the O-line is pray or waste a TE/RB helping out. Also, I think the D-line priorities are more straightforward, or can be. “Attack the LT/LG gap”, but every single O-line player needs to compensate for what the defense is doing and needs to know what their neighbors are doing. It seems like the D-line just attacks and lets the LBs if a blitz is happening be the brains of the operation.
I think you could play a guy like Stapleton at guard against a team we are physically dominant again where a guy like hartwig could help him out, but otherwise it’s too much of a liability.
One thing that bums me out is that we are having all of these injuries on the D-line. BUT, these injuries don’t give us an opportunity to have someone step up. We have a bunch of old guys that won’t be around for very long being a stopgap. There’s no 2nd round guy who gets his shot. When an LB goes down, a CB goes down, or god forbid a safety goes down, you have hope in the backups to show something and be future stars. When a D-line goes down, what happens? Great, Roye knocks someone unconcious. I don’t care how good the backups on D-line play, they are old old old and are not the future. It won’t be pretty, but at least on O-line we have guys like Essex, Starks (sort of), Stapleton, and (eek) Hills to bring it and show us the steelers of the future.
by steelguy99 on Sep 26, 2008 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offense vs. Defense
just by nature it’s a bit easier I would think for defensive linemen (and defensive players in general) to just be thrown in the mix. Defense is simpler in that you attack the offense, and respond to what they do to stop the play. Yes there are systems and plays, but even the most complex defenses (like ours or Baltimores) are simple compared to the most vanilla offensive systems.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 26, 2008 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thats what i originally thought
But if you screw up an assignemtn on D, they score. You mess up on offense, you lose 3 yards.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, but...
I agree with you in saying that if the D screws up they score, but the mentality of most defenses, especially those that take risks by blitzing, is that we will screw up. At some point they will make a play but our big plays have to outweigh theirs. Most defenses preach the idea of make a mistake but make it hard. As long as you’re going 100 miles an hour it really is ok if you mess up once in a while, coachs can fix that. On offense, every mistake counts, whether in the form of a sack or loss yardage. But more importantly young o-lineman have no concept of continuity or how to play within the timing of the rest of the offense, that’s what makes it so hard to switch them out
by athlete53 on Sep 26, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word
I don’t disagree with that logic and I think I came to the same conclusion. My only dilemma is that you just never know how certain people will respond to ‘the moment.’ Some do much better than ANYONE could have expected. Some wilt. There’s no magic 8 ball that says which will occur (hence the term inexact science in pro sports and their drafts), so only way to find out is by throwing them in there.
Good points though man about defenders just flying around. If you’re doing that, not overthinking, coaches can live with that.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Continuity
The biggest issue with an O-line is creating chemistry. The reluctance to replace a lineman is due to the lack of cohesion that could exist by putting in someone who hasn’t practiced or played with the starters all season. I mentioned in another post how the QB-center relationship is one of the most important in football. Since Ben is making the blocking calls at the line, and he has a new center, the coaches don’t want to disrupt the rapport that the QB and line could be developing by adding a new face. I think that A and Z are trying to see how Ben and his line rally after last week and hope that they can develop the kind of relationship that Manning and Brady have with their lines.
D-line is easy, especially with the Steelers. You put someone in and say, “occupy an o-lineman or two and let the LBs do their jobs.” Occasionally you may get some sacks but that’s gravy.
by woody71 on Sep 26, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents
I understand the continuity/chemistry line of reasoning. My thoughts are however, that there are times/events/circumstances where the further development of both the individual players and the unit as a whole could be acheived without exposing the team or the QB to certain doom.
- With Starks, Stapleton and Essex usually (not always) active on game days, they could be employed as a “package.” Have them practice during the week on their protection schemes and put them on the field at the same time. This could be employed in preplanned down/distance/time situations. Not the same situation each week to set a pattern, but worked out in advance by the coacing staff so that the players/unit would be prepared for the play packages to be called.
-On games where we are either clearly coasting (week 1) or clearly roasting (week 3) I disagree that inserting one or more of these guys has a negative impact. I know in week 1 everyone played, so at least that part seems to be working. I wont continue to lament the beatdown of last week, but suffice it to say, these guys couldnt have been any worse than what was on display. Getting them a little game time exposure and getting the attention of the starters is not a bad thing imo.
Got 5? ... We do! Check the RINGS!!!
by warftr5 on Sep 26, 2008 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes sir!
Was being all puritanical and not having TV for a few months, but just caved. GOt my Sunday Ticket rigged up as of kickoffs of early games Sunday. Delish.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stapleton & Starks
practice enough with the first team occasionally on a week to week basis that I think if the O-Line continues to struggle those guys will be given a chance in place of Simmons & Colon.
by TheMostViolentTeam on Sep 26, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I do think Starks is an upgrade over Colon, but honestly I think I’d rather see Stapleton or Starks in for Simmons instead.
by steelguy99 on Sep 26, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting question
I don’t have much more to add. Continuity is important on OL, whereas a rotation is supported on DL to keep players fresh. The OL has to work as a group, communcating and shifting assignments, and though the entire defense works together, it’s more about each person doing a more straightforward assignment.
I think the love for Stapleton is just that we don’t have any other promising young guys in the reserves anymore. We know what Essex, Starks, and Colon bring, and Hills hasn’t looked good so far. We want desperately for Stapleton to be the savior of our OL. He’s looked promising for an UDFA, but he wasn’t given a serious chance at C or G this summer, so I doubt he’s ready to step in, and I doubt he’s going to be a Pro Bowler any time soon. Our best hope is that he could be a solid C once Hartwig leaves.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Sep 26, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hehe
Pretty much grasping at what we have left, I know. But hey, hes a late bloomer and has made huge improvements since last year strength wise.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
We can hope, but I pride myself in tempering hope, wherever it’s found :)
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Sep 26, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of centers...
What ever happened to Chucky Okkobi? He always did a great job when Hartings was out. I know he got cut but does anyone know more?
by woody71 on Sep 26, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chukky
I think the Cards brought him in then released him.
by Michael Bean (Blitz) on Sep 26, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's correct
last I heard, he went to camp with the Texans. I never heard if he made the team though.
by cgolden on Sep 26, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All D-lineman contribute to the rotation
It’s part of their job description. They get tired and need to be rested. Most starting D-Lineman play about 75% of defensive snaps.
I think people are on to something earlier about O-lineman not being allowed to screw up where D-lineman are. Think about it. A D-lineman who makes 10 plays in a game is having potentially a career game. 3 sacks is a HUGE day. For an offensive lineman, allowing one sack is bad, and allowing 2 is terrible. So if a D-lineman makes a mistake, they are taken out of the play, and there’s a possibility that the offense moves the ball (there are still 3-4 other rushers to get at the QB if one fails). Each and every o-lineman needs to make their block for a pass play to work. Their job is most like the cornerbacks job on defense. If a CB screws up, the other team scores. If a LT screws up, the QB takes a nasty hit, a sack, and quite possibly a fumble.
Very few late round cornerbacks start NFL games soon after being drafted. And when they do, the results are often disastrous (See Bal @ Pit 2007)
by math_geek on Sep 26, 2008 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nO-line
Ive harped on this and I’m not gonna stop;I played center at a small college in Ohio and I coach o-line at the hi school level and I know these are pro football players but football is football!! LeCharles Bentley IS the answer.He had a serious injury over a year ago that has fully recovered,he was an all pro at guard for the saints and an all american at center;that diversity would help us immensely.This is a no risk situation;sign him to an incentive laden contract;if he is damaged goods we can cut him with minimal losses,if hes’ anywhere near his former self,we have an all pro center or guard.Whats’ so difficult about this?? Somebody attached to the f/o has to read some of these posts,please speak of my genius!!
by wmd3 on Sep 27, 2008 7:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seems reasonable, why wouldn’t they sign him?
Did I hear he is insisting on a starter’s contract, why not just get in and get the contract once you perform?
by herewegosteelers on Sep 27, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two forces working to keep the offense stable
I agree that the cohesion factor on the line and with the QB is a major factor with keeping the same players out there. I think it’s really rare to see a starting lineman benched anywhere in the NFL. (examples?)
The last time that we had a fluctuating line that drastically changed during a season was the year before we drafted Ben – I remember hearing all the commentators mentioning how bad our line situation was because we were shuffling players through positions every game it seemed (although this was due to injury initially).
The other thing about not seeing new offensive guys is that Z & A are stuck in their rut guys who don’t seem to be too accepting of necessary change.
I think only injury would cause a rookie to get time on that line.
by SCSteeler on Sep 27, 2008 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand the cohession argument
But cohesive shit is still shit. You need talented players on the O-line. There are huge question marks at LT, RG and RT IMO. Starks and Stapleton could provide a huge lift. Gotta give them a shot.
by zeke5123 on Sep 27, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
stuck
Getting stuck in a rut will get you unemployed very quickly in the league!!
by wmd3 on Sep 27, 2008 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

















