This Just In...Joe Flacco is Not That Good.
by 5goldenrings on Jan 15, 2009 12:10 PM EST
22 comments
Originally posted on http://5goldenrings.net
He might be good someday and he might have a good career but right now he’s barely better than Trent Dilfer (who most Ravens fans would claim that they won in 2000 “in spite” of Dilfer and the non-existent offense). But, people are beginning to talk like Flacco is the best rookie QB ever. The proof? Well, he’s won 2 playoff games; no other rookie QB has done that. FYI - Roethlisberger didn’t have the “luxury” of playing a wild card game in 2004 since he led his team to a #1 seed and a first round bye.
Roethlisberger Cmp/Att % YDS AVG TD INT RATE
2004 Reg. Season - 196/295 | 66.4 | 2,621 | 8.9 | 17 | 11 | 98.1
2004 Playoffs - 31/54 | 57.4 | 407 | 7.5 | 3 | 5 | 61.3
Flacco Cmp/Att % YDS AVG TD INT RATE
2008 Reg. Season - 257/428 | 60.0 | 2,971 | 6.9 | 14 | 12 | 80.3
2008 Playoffs - 20/45 | 44.4 | 296 | 6.6 | 1 | 0 | 73.9
Dilfer* Cmp/Att % YDS AVG TD INT RATE
2000 Reg. Season - 284/500 | 56.8 | 3,080 | 6.2 | 20 | 19 | 72.6
2000 Playoffs ** - 14/31 | 45.2 | 247 | 8.2 | 1 | 0 | 83.7
*Tony Banks stats were added for the regular season to reflect the Ravens QB of 2000 since Dilfer didn’t become the starter until week 9 of that season. **1st two playoff games
What do we learn? Roethlisberger 2004 was MUCH better than Flacco 2008 in EVERY way in the Regular Season. Except for the accumulation of stats because the Ravens threw much more this season than the ‘04 Steelers.
- In over 100 less attempts Roethlisberger threw 3 more TD’s and only 350 less yards
- Roethlisberger was 14-0 in that regular season, Flacco was 11-5
- Flacco was barely better than the Banks/Dilfer combo of 2000…everyone rips the anemic Dilfer led offense; Flacco is much closer to the second coming of Dilfer in a very similar offense than the 2nd coming of Jesus.
- Besides Roethlisberger’s 5 playoff picks (which are in excusable and the 3 in the AFC title game probably cost us the game), his stats…particularly Comp%…dwarf Flacco’s
- Dilfer wasn’t a rookie in 2000 but his playoff stats are eerily similar.
The reason I point out Dilfer’s stats against Flacco’s is because while Dilfer was often criticized for his “managing” style of play, Flacco is being touted as a game changer and a play maker. He is not. If anything, his inefficiency and inability to complete more than 45% of his passes is holding his team back. The Ravens are winning inspite of Flacco.
Another point, it is silly and pointless to make a huge negative comparison after two playoff games…such a small sample set skews the data. If you wan to compare, use the larger sample set of the just completed regular season. That is a much better indicator of the likely performance.
Since the Defenses are virtually a wash…this game will likely come down to QB play against the said D’s. Probably the QB that is most efficient and protects the ball will directly contribute to his team’s victory. So, another comparison (though the sample set is small, it is a good indicator based on the head to head nature within the current season):
Roethlisberger Cmp/Att % YDS AVG TD INT RATE
vs Ravens; week 4 - 14/24 | 58.3 | 191 | 8.0 | 1 | 1 | 80.4
vs Ravens; week 15 - 22/40 | 55.0 | 246 | 6.1 | 1 | 0 | 81.9
TOTAL - 36/64 | 56.3 | 437 | 6.8 | 2 | 1 | 81.3
Flacco Cmp/Att % YDS AVG TD INT RATE
vs Steelers; wk 4 - 16/31 | 51.6 | 192 | 6.2 | 1 | 0 | 81.7
vs Steelers; wk 15 - 11/28 | 39.3 | 115 | 4.1 | 0 | 2 | 22.2
TOTAL - 27/59 | 45.8 | 307 | 5.2 | 1 | 2 | 53.4
What do you say? Flacco is NOT as good as the public perception or the occasional deep ball he throws.
1 recs |
22 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Would like to revisit this with updated stats after this Sunday's game
A 3 game sample set in one season ought to be interesting- doubtful we would have that again in a long time.
by SteelersVT on Jan 15, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
not a bad idea...
I may do that over on my blog…sadly for Mr. Flacco I don’t feel it will bode too well for him.
by 5goldenrings on Jan 15, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
About Dilfer’s management being looked down on and Flacco’s being praised. I guess you get excited when it’s a rookie cause he could get better.
by Chicago Steeler on Jan 15, 2009 12:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I stutter as ....
I just don’t know how to comment on this. He is a 1st year QB playing the Steelers in the AFC Championship. Doesn’t get much better than that and one doesn’t get there by being a slouch.
by tenthmtnman on Jan 15, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who cares if Flacco is a rookie?
Although comparing Flacco 2008 to Big Ben 2004 is interesting, it is not relevant to Sunday’s game. I keep reading articles about how well Flacco plays for a rookie. So what? Flacco is an NFL QB, just like Ben. As your statistics show, Flacco 2008 appears to be no match for Ben 2008. In my post here, I used a different sample set to come to the same conclusion.
The good thing about Flacco is that you know what you are getting. No picks, no sacks, 1TD, maybe 150 yards passing. Ben is capable of so much more, but a few times this year, he has been Bad Ben with multiple sacks and INTs. As long as Bad Ben doesn’t show up on Sunday, the Steelers should be in good shape.
by Steelin on Jan 15, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The problem with this reasoning is that Ben 2008 hasn’t been any better by most metrics than Flacco 2008 before the post season. They’re about equal in QB rating, YPA, and FO metrics like DYAR and DVOA. I’m not saying I’d rather have Flacco (very strongly not the case), but Ben’s had some rough games this year, and a rough year all around.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jan 15, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True...
I could have gone there with comparing this season’s Ben to this season’s Flacco…but the point that I keep hearing is that Flacco is the best Rookie QB, maybe ever (certainly Ben is in their discussions), and I wanted to prove that rookie Ben was superior to rookie Flacco. And rookie Flacco is not much different from the marginalized 2000 Dilfer. That was the main point.
The second point was that Flacco and Ben head to head this season is not a contest either. I’m starting with the premise that the #1 and #2 Defenses of the Steelers and Ravens are very similar. So, since they both can’t play the Steelers D or both play the Ravens D to have a true comparison, the #1 and #2 D’s are pretty close.
Ben has been better and against a REAL D…Flacco is average to bad.
by 5goldenrings on Jan 15, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zzzzzzz.....
So who cares about the stats. As one poster said correctly, his team is still in the AFC Championship Game Regardless of whether or not they’re here because or even despite him, we’re still here. Besides, no one seems to understand outside of Baltimore, Flacco doesn’t have to be “good” to win, just “good enough,” which he has been!
Rexx
by Rexx on Jan 15, 2009 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That’s not the point of the article though. The point is that Joe Flacco is not that good. Dilfer won a super bowl so that must make him “good enough” as well.
I actually don’t agree with the article, but you are nit-picking the wrong thing.
by steelguy99 on Jan 15, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea rexx, i think you missed the point
we’re not arguing about whether or not he has to play great to win the game, the answer to that is obvious.
What we are arguing is that Flacco isn’t as good as so called “experts” and analysts make him out to be. All I hear throughout the week his how much of an awesome job Flacco has done throughout the year. He hasn’t been spectacular nor horrible. He’s been average, which is impressive for a rookie of course, but like I said everyone seems to praise him as the second coming of manning (peyton, not the other one who is useless).
by shleeve on Jan 16, 2009 3:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rexx, we get it
It’s a team game, not Flacco vs. Ben in a cage match. But I’m willing to grant that the two defenses are pretty similar (assuming everyone is healthy), so it comes down to which offense can score points. QB is clearly the most important position on offense, so it does matter which QB is better. It also matters which O-line is better, which receivers are better, etc, but at the end of the game, it will come down to which QB can drive his team down the field for the winning points.
by Steelin on Jan 15, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now we're talkin'
Flacco vs. Ben in a cage match
$50 on Ben.
by Varmint on Jan 16, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone wanna take a prop bet on whether Flacco’s unibrow survives?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by drinkyourmilkshake on Jan 16, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stats
never reveal the whole picture and can be very misleading. Statistically, Ben had a monster year last year and a poor year this year.
But those same stats will never reveal that Ben played behind a banged up offensive line with 3 new starters, and consequently a very poor running game, against a lot of the top defenses in the league. Yes, he made some poor decisions during the year, but he also led us on a number of critical, game winning drives. I contend, all being said, he may have been better this year than last year. Why? Because he perservered in the case of adversity and still won!!
Stats, metrics etc are a limited part of the big picture. For me, the best part of Ben is, he is a Winner…a big-time Winner!!
Flacco? Obviously as a Steeler fan I wish him nothing but the worst!!! But give the guy credit for being “just good enough”. I do not think he will melt down v. us on Sunday. However, the only way I see him hurting us, is srambling out of the pocket to buy time, and hitting a couple of long TD throws.
Ultimately, no one knows what the hells gonna happen…the stakes are so big and our hated rival is our opponent…what great drama…what a build up…let me finish by saying…
GOD, DO I HATE THE RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by SteelerMike on Jan 15, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Either way rookies dont win
Granted he has done enough to keep the ravens from losing many games. This we can say.
But against tough teams he has been shaken like a peach tree by the Presidents of the United States (if you got that hi five).
3 turnovers against PIT, one of them HUGE in the first game.
Completely stonewalled by NYG and IND.
And bottom line is, he hasnt performed great in the last two playoff games despite winning.
We saw the drop off for Ben in the AFCC, expect it to hit Flacco hard. I expect his rating <40
by Mechem on Jan 15, 2009 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Millions of peaches, peaches for free?
by Chicago Steeler on Jan 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
millions of peaches, peaches for me?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by drinkyourmilkshake on Jan 16, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I have to defend myself or anything...
But…I think Flacco provided the best proof. Oops.
by 5goldenrings on Jan 19, 2009 12:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Behind the Steel Curtain
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
