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Around SBN: The Infuriating Jose Molina

Gauging Interest in Julius Peppers

Hello Steeler fans,

First a congratulations on your season and making the Superbowl. As one of the last two teams standing, you are definitely the envy of the rest of the league.

Yet, while your season still move forward the rest of us are already looking ahead to next year. So, by now everyone probably knows that Julius Peppers clearly wants to find another team for next season. Those of us at Cat Scratch Reader would like to get a feel for what other teams fans would trade for Peppers, if at all. He says he is interested in a 3-4 defense but many of us believe that is mostly a smoke screen and he just wants to find another place to play. But I don't really want to get into why he wants to leave. So, answer me this question, provided we franchise him, what would you be willing to trade for Peppers?

(I'd prefer you select something besides "other", but if you feel so inclined please leave a comment as to what you would give.)

I should also add, that I realize you may not actually need Peppers but I would ask that you at least pretend to have a little interest. But I will leave the not interested option in the poll just in case.

Thanks and congrats again.

Poll
What would you trade for Julius Peppers?
The entitled two 1st round draft picks
0 votes
1st Round, 2nd round
2 votes
1st, 3rd, and 4th round
1 votes
Nothing higher than a 2nd round
24 votes
Nothing higher than a 3rd round
11 votes
Nothing, don't need him
42 votes
Nothing, cost to must
10 votes
Other (Please specify)
1 votes

91 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 36 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Don't need him

Quite frankly, Peppers doesn’t fit into a 3-4. He just doesn’t occupy blockers well enough. The whole purpose of the 3 linemen is to occupy blockers so the LBs can make the plays. Pass rushing or speed rushing ends need not apply.

That said, he is extremely athletic. If you could get him for less than a third rounder I would do it just to have an athletic body to step up in case of an injury.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Jan 21, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions  

Peppers is a Great

4-3 DE but I doubt he would make nearly as many plays in the 3-4 set up. A second round pick would be the very most I would give as GM. If we could get away with a third rounder and possibly a fourth added on to that I would consider it but it wouldn’t be worth more than that. Plus I’m not what you mean by “The two entitled first round draft picks” because last I checked we only had one.

To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)

Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.

by Tim Mullhaupt (HSS) on Jan 21, 2009 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

Two 1st rounders

I believe it’s one this year and one next year.

Basically the way I understand the situation is that when a player is franchised if another team wants to trade for him the owning team can demand the two 1st rounders. But of course the owning team can decide if they will take less.

by LittleKing on Jan 21, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Got ya

I thought that might be what you meant.

To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)

Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.

by Tim Mullhaupt (HSS) on Jan 21, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

ask after season

Depends if dick lebeau is gone or not. i suppose we dont have personnel to make a switch over night, but its not impossible to think that tomlin could start making transition over to 4-3 if lebeau were to retire

by Michael Bean on Jan 21, 2009 2:40 PM EST reply actions  

I hope that doesn't happen

We’d be seeing less of Deebo and Wookiee (hell yea I’m using that nickname), as they are primarily built as rush linebackers, and might have some trouble transitioning. Wookiee might even be moved to DE, like he was in college. I hope Lebeau stays though, cause I know he’s still got it in him.

To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)

Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.

by Tim Mullhaupt (HSS) on Jan 21, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Noooo!

Its scary to just think about Coach Dad leaving the steelers…

by steelersfan86 on Jan 21, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I’m holding my hands over my ears and shouting ‘la la la I can’t HEAR you!’

by acrollet on Jan 21, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

4-3?

Do you think our defense could be as strong with a 4-3 defense? I don’t think it will work too well because, well, it might limit what harrison and woodley do. And as much as I love Farrior, I don’t think he’s big enough too stop the running game and plug any available holes all by his lonesome. I think we should stick with the 3-4 since it’s been doing great for us, no?

by paulamalu on Jan 21, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

We won’t go to the 4-3. Tomlin won’t fix a horse winning 1st place, and it would take a lot of effort to switch over to 4-3 personnel and money-wise.

by steelguy99 on Jan 22, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

First,

NFL rules stipulate that you cannot franchise a player with the intent to trade him. It goes against the spirit of the rule. Fines including $ and draft picks could be levyed against a team for such a move.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/11/17/pats-wont-sweat-nflpa-on-cassel/

Second, he really sounds like a bad fit with our defense, partially because he is a 4-3 DE and also because he is a high price tag player. How many players on our Defense have big money contracts? I can only think of one player on our Defense that would be in the top 5 for his position and that would be Troy Polomalu. Casey Hampton’s contact isn’t cheap either if I remember correctly but we really don’t need a player of his talent or price on this defense.

Now if Blitz’s prediction of Mr. Leabeau leaving comes true I guess it could be a whole different ballgame although it doesn’t strike me as Tomlin’s style/ or our Front Office’s style to pay a big name player in FA.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jan 21, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for this

I’ve been thinking this myself for the last few weeks. Wondering why people keep talking about franchising and then trading. Definitely not the spirit of the rule.

by Chicago Steeler on Jan 21, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

ya, if they let everyteam decide they could keep one guy thats up for Free Agency and then trade him it basically ruins free agency; as the player loses his right to find choose which team he wants to player for after his contract is up.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jan 21, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't know that

You make an excellent point with that link. I have to say I didn’t know that.

by LittleKing on Jan 21, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't really object to the idea of this post....

But the idea that we need a pass rusher is pretty much laughable. In fact, if we devote serious picks to anything that isn’t offensive line talent then I think the FO will have gone off the rails.

Can Peppers play left tackle? If not, then we do not need him.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.

by BostonWahoo on Jan 21, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

not really

I think our biggest need outside of improving the offensive line is to get younger on the defensive line, but yes that pales in comparison to the need on the offensive line

by schnifin on Jan 21, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Not just the draft picks we would give up but the sheer cap money we would need to give him would be way over what the FO would give him. The Steelers never give large amounts of money to anyone so it seems unlikely that we would even try to get Peppers

by archon095 on Jan 21, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks but no thanks

As many people mentioned, Peppers does not really fit 3-4 scheme – unless he’s thinking about playing linebacker (:

The truth is that the Steelers have built so many of their teams on their ability to use low draft picks to find talent that fits into a 3-4 scheme. Look at the guys who are the Studs of 3-4 system. With the exception of Casey Hampton who was a mid first round pick, we have Brett Kiesel (7th round) and Aaron Smith (4th round) James Harrison (UFA) Woodley(2nd) Foote (4th) Farrior (1st)
That’s a pretty cheap front 7. Its also a pretty amazing front 7.
Panthers on the other hand have
Brayton late 1st
Peppers 1st (2nd pick overall)
Komeuta (UFA)
Damione Lewis 1st (15th pick overall)
Beason Late 1st
T. Davis 1st (15th pick overall)
That’s a lot of high draft picks – over time that’s also fairly expensive to maintain.

The other thing that you may have noticed about the Steelers is that its very, very rare for them to pick up high price free agents. The steelers usually grow their own talent and let other teams spend good money chasing guys that had success in the Steeler system. Farrior is one of the very few “high profile” free agents we have had and apart from being an amazing player – he is as about as low key as you can get.

I would not be averse to the Steelers snagging a high profile O-linemen if they can find one in the market. I don’t remember who is coming out this year, but we sure could use the help.

by SteelerBuddha on Jan 21, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

That changes things a bit, but would he be better per dollar than woodley, harrison or timmons? I sure doubt it.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.

by BostonWahoo on Jan 21, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be interesting

I know that peppers is a freak, but can he drop back and cover TE/Backs in the flat? I am not denying that he’s a physical specimen, but I wonder if he would do well in that kind of situation. How is his open field tackling?

Really the question is why would the Steelers spend top dollar to sign Peppers UNLESS they lose Harrison to free agency. Peppers is two years younger but will probably cost much more and has much less heart than our boy Harrison.

by SteelerBuddha on Jan 21, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Why are we even answering this question?

Clearly Dallas needs another LB that just rushes the passer, and the more money he costs the better!

by steelguy99 on Jan 21, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They're already getting Ray Ray

Can you imagine the spendoff between Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones in a no-cap system?

by Chicago Steeler on Jan 21, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Might be able to cover TE/Backs

but you are right that he would probably want to play OLB. The maybe part is that in our system he does drop back into coverage from time to time and it seems to work. Could he do it full time? That’s the million dollar question.

by LittleKing on Jan 21, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Well if you remember

he’s had a bunch of interceptions, including at least one for a TD, so he can catch (and knows what to do with it after the fact).

by Romain El 82 on Jan 21, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Peppers

I’m sure he’ll succeed wherever he goes, but I’ll echo thoughts above that he doesn’t fit well into our scheme. For one, I can’t see him anchoring against the run as well as a guy like Aaron Smith. He has the size, but he’s more of a pass rusher than is typical at 3-4 end. Peppers is a playmaker, but we already have a lot of playmakers. We need guys who can do the dirty work on the DL and let Harrison and Woodley do their things. I also agree that we’re not going to give him a big contract, as we have plenty of young players we’d rather sign. Lastly, he’s by no means old, but we’re looking for some youth along our DL, and he’s already 29. We’ll be looking for some run stuffing DT’s in the draft.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Jan 21, 2009 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

What about Jordan Gross?

We could use a good young Left Tackle. We spent 8 million a year for one this time and he isn’t exactly a beast. I would be happy to trade a first and third round pick for Gross.

by SteelerBuddha on Jan 21, 2009 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

isn't gross an FA?

we wouldn’t need to give up any picks for him, just money. Loads and Loads of money.

Although I doubt gross hits the market, Carolina and any team is stupid to let a Stud LT walk.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jan 21, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

you are right

he is. and they won’t. Which is why Peppers is going to hit the market and some team (dallas) will pay a ton of money for him

by SteelerBuddha on Jan 21, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

He was franchised this year

so yes both Gross and Peppers could become FA. While one may become FA, both definitely will not. With Peppers wanting to leave we will probably be able to get a contract with Gross. He has express interest in staying with the team.

by LittleKing on Jan 21, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

3-4 OLB

and he would be a beast! He can cover, can tackle, is a sack machine, and he would be great on a 3-4 as a LB, but we do have the best duo in the business, so we will not spend more than a 2nd round pick for him! Well, we wont fight for him at all, his salary would be huge!

But, maybe The Browns? Jets?

I think learning it, he will be a beast!

by SteelerBrazil on Jan 21, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions  

Sure

I understand you may not actually want him, but if you did what would it take is where I’m coming from. Thanks for the feedback. Very useful.

by LittleKing on Jan 21, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s pretty impossible to answer. See, we “want” him, we just don’t want to pay anything for him. If we wanted him and more importantly, needed him we’d be willing to pay a lot more.

by steelguy99 on Jan 22, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I dont like people who switch formations

This guy thrives on getting off the edge in a 4-3. He has had up and down years. Hes getting a little older.

I dont think he fits a 3-4 quite honestly. Besides we have amazing LB’s. So for him to switch to LB seems like a waste.

He cant stop the run as well on a 3-4, you just simply need big dudes who can crash the line. We need a biggum to start backing up and rotating in for Smith.

by Mechem on Jan 21, 2009 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Only as an OLB, and we don't need one-

He’s big and athletic, with long arms and speed. And he’s strong. BUT- i’m not sure he’s fast enough to cover flats and short mids, and i’m not aware that he’s ever played LB before.

He’s simply too lean and light for a Pittsburgh DE. Maybe he’d be a good pickup as a pass-rusher off the end in coverage defenses like nickel and dime, and in rare Steelers 4-3 configs, but he just doesn’t suit Steelers-style 3-4 DE. Our ends are 300+, 6’4-5" and more quick than fast. Brett Keisel, actually, CAN run like a LBer, but rarely needs to.

Unless Peppers:

 A- Wants to/can gain 40-50 lbs.

 B-Wants to/can play OLB

 Pittsburgh probably can’t use him, nor are they likely to pay him what he wants. I’d LOVE to see jhim in Black-n-Gold as a situational pass-rusher, rotational LBer and general backup, i don’t see him wanting that secondary kind of role. Or money.

by tobiathan on Jan 22, 2009 12:52 AM EST reply actions  

Right now? Too expensive and not needed...

The first reponsibility of a DE on this defense is gap control, occupying blockers to allow the LBs to make the plays. If it’s a running play and he’s not disciplined enough to stay with his gap, he’ll be out of position, and the RB will have running room.
He is a talented pass rusher, but is he willing to let others make the play? He’ll have more chances to make plays as an LB, but the same unselfishness applies here. I’m pretty sure Deebo didn’t mind he got all the attention of the Ravens blockers, allowing others to put the pressure.

If I’m not mistaken, on one of Wookie’s sacks, Farrior was blitzing. Flacco was forced to move into the pocket, and right into the waiting arms of #56. You think Farrior cares he didn’t get the sack? Yes, the players care about their stats. But these players also care about winning. The results are more important.

If you don’t mind numbers, this is the defense to be in. If you’re good, everyone else will be good, because when the offense worries about you, it opens things up for other playmakers. And that gives you W’s.

by PRSteel on Jan 22, 2009 11:11 AM EST reply actions  

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