Liabilities on D
by 72Steeler on Oct 13, 2009 3:44 AM EDT
60 comments
Just finished watching the Lions game and the following players looked very slow. We had the Lions on 3rd and 19 and they got a 1st down late in the 4th Qtr??? R u kidding me. We had to blitz the corner to get to Culpepper
1. James Farrior... Left in the dust by the running backs, similar to the Bengals game. Not a step slow, really 2 steps slow.
2. Ratliff... constantly getting beat by 5 yds or more. Northcut ran the same pattern all afternoon...
3. Deshea... Much better at safety than cover corner.... looks afraid to stick his head in on D.
4. Tyronne 2 shoes... they actually took him out for a couple of plays.
5. Where is Aaron Smith??? checking his bank account. We get minimum production from Smith and Kiesel with his nice new shinny contract..
FYI: Ben doesn't escape either. Stop picking out your receiver before the ball is snapped. That's why 2 int's occurred with 1 being overturned due to rough penalty. Hines was wide open for a TD but you made up your mind to pass to Heath.
FYI: Bruce Arians u didn't get greedy u got dumb... We're averaging 5.1 yards a rush. Run the ball fool, the defense is tired and doesn't want to take on blocks. Please find us another O Coordinator...
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W
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
E
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
W
"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature. The two children of these spawned and fused in a tantric love session to create Troy Polamalu. The mother however died as he tore through the birth canal with a spin move."
Mechem on the roots of Troy Polamalu
by WVPiratesfan on Oct 13, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
V
"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature. The two children of these spawned and fused in a tantric love session to create Troy Polamalu. The mother however died as he tore through the birth canal with a spin move."
Mechem on the roots of Troy Polamalu
by WVPiratesfan on Oct 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EEEEE
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by shleeve on Oct 13, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
love the enthusiasm
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or gasm
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 14, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never harrass'em
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 14, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absurd
What’s the record for most “…” in a fanpost? We should call Guinness.
I will say however I do agree with #2. But I don’t see how Pittsburgh can fix that at this point unless Burnett or Lewis is ready to step up. Since it is most obvious that they are not ready, there is nothing that can be done about this, but since Ratliff is our #4 corner we really shouldn’t be expecting a pro-bowl caliber style of play.
The first FYI on Ben is ridiculous. Only on predetermined plays does Ben do this. His ability to check down so many different recievers is the reason his completion percentage is at 73%. I think everyone should watch Pittsburgh’s last offensive play in the SuperBowl as homework ;)
by Cannon36 on Oct 13, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't do this much
but i totally agree with weirdtrip on this one:
yyyaaawwwwnnnn
by tobiathan on Oct 13, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think somewhere someone just saved a puppy
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 14, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Stop picking out your receiver before the ball is snapped. "
To the tune of the second best completion percentage since the merger.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 13, 2009 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its fun to know nothing about football and then try to comment on it, isn’t it? Our D is terrible and so is our offense. You should just stop watching this year.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 13, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Questioning Aaron Smith shows you know hardly anything about football
Regardless if you are questioning his effort or production, it’s just stupid to do so. The guy has always been productive. You’ll probably never read this post again so I don’t need to say anything else.
by StoneColdSteel on Oct 13, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Check the Film
Is it crime to mention some of our obvious shortcomings. I enjoy watching the Steelers every Sunday, Saturday, Monday etc… I also attended the last Superbowl with my 2 sons. I’ve watched the Steelers since 1971 and since the implementation of the NFL Sunday Ticket, I haven’t missed a game. In addition, I’ve taped every game and watched the offense and defense in slow motion (of course fast fowarding through commercials, halftimes, extra points, punts, punt/kickoff returns, and field goals if made).
So all of you homers who are turning a blind eye to the obivious… I’ll be the first to tell you I said so. Check how time Kirschke and Hood played during the game. Aaron and Ben have issues just like any other football player. Stop being a homer and watch the film. Film don’t lie.
It’s fantastic that Ben completes 70% plus of his pass with us counting on him throwing at least 1 pick 6. Granted the Bengals blunder was on Holmes, however, why r they not on the same page after all this time? He stared Wallace down from the snap in the Lions game, check the film.
by 72Steeler on Oct 13, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, who sends you the game tape? Mike Tomlin?
I wish I could get ahold of it. The camera angle from the television broadcast don’t show Ben’s eyes…glad we have an answer on that.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by drinkyourmilkshake on Oct 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know too
because some of those playbacks I see from the broadcasts leave much to be desired.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 13, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is not a crime to point out shortcomings...
And I commend you for watching as much film as you do, I apologize for the abrupt dismissing of your points.
I actually did agree with some of what you said. Ty Carter is slow, and that is why they took him off the field for Deshea, who plays a good cover safety, in my opinion, so far. Ratliff was never a burner, or a good coverage guy. He has good ball skills and supposedly can make an int or two. But if you expect him to be step for step with the WR, he’s not that guy. And not running the ball to kill the clock was not a good move by Brucey.
As far as my disagreements, there are also a few. As a longtime Steelers fan, you knew going after Farrior and Smith would bring some negative reactions, so kudos for manning up and saying what you think. But Smith was hurt for a good part of the game, which would explain his lack of visability. Farrior was never a burner, and as he gets older coverage will suffer first. But give K. Smith and C. Benson some credit, they’re not slow of foot. And there aren’t very many LB’s with the ability to cover RB’s extremely well in he whole league.
My biggest disagreement was with the comment about Ben (odviously). But I will give you that it did appear he looked at Wallace first, but Mike route wasn’t too crisp either. That goes on both guys, in my opinion, because the route should have been better, but Wallace isn’t known for his route running (yet), and Ben has to know that too, and adjust to that. Ben’s doing a good job doing what he’s doing, even if it’s not perfect. That play could of hurt, but everyone makes a mistake now and then. One big one out of however many passes is going to happen.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 13, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
Most of these points are ridicualous (Ben), others are banal and obvious (who would have thought Ratliff, our fourth best corner, is not an all star). But I have to say, Farrior looks like he’s fading. He has been seriously lacking in pass protection this year which accounts for a lot of the dinking and dunking. He’s not a liability yet, but no longer is he an all star.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Oct 13, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s easy to complain when you get all the time in the world to watch a tape and see which receivers are open and which aren’t. Ben gets 3 sec.
by vynotty on Oct 13, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look out Westinghouse Bridge
1-2-3 JUMP
we all know Ratliffe sucks, we all know TC is not an every down Safety in this league
we don’t have a top 5 defense becasue Smith and Keisel are checking their bank accounts in between snaps. we’ve given up 29 points as a defense in the first 3 quarters all season, by far the best in the NFL. probably a result of 51 losing two steps in 7 months. come on man!
by WARDANE33 on Oct 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smith is hurt
Tomlin just announced Smith has a shoulder that could be significant. It sounds like he is likely out for this weeks game.
Well I wonder if young Ziggy gets the nod?
by Silverback92 on Oct 13, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rule #1 Love My Steelers
If you have NFL Sunday Ticket you could watch all of the games, all I care about taping is the Steelers game. I rewatch the game right before the Monday night game. We gave Bradshaw more crap and he won 4 SB’s than we give Ben who’s only accountable for 1 SB… (Horrible in sB 40).
Gentlemen, Aaron Smith is beast, however, before his injury he was not beating man off the ball. 3 out of 4 pass rushers (Kiesel – some pressure, Smith, and Woodley) aren’t getting to the QB.
Offensive have caught up to the outside Blitz with Potsie moving outside of Woodley… I like our dime D with Deshea at safety and Troy back on the field.
I would like to see the Steelers pay man on the corners on 3rd down and go with 5 or 6 man rush depending on down an distance. Force the receivers to the outside for safety coverage. Detroit made a 3rd and 19 first down. The Lions.
Dick’s has a lot in the playbook that needs to start showing to take teams weaknesses
by 72Steeler on Oct 13, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You might not give Ben credit for 2 SBs
But I think the rest of us do. Ben was STELLAR in the three games leading to the SB. 680 yards, 6TDs, 1INT, 68 comp %. Without him the Steelers were not in the SB. His team got his back in the SB after he carried them there. Anyway, Bradshaw was not a statistical knockout in his first SB, and he still gets credit for it.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 13, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Detroit made a 3rd and 19 first down. The Lions."
I know the Lions were bad last year, real bad. But you have to admit this is almost a completely different team this year. They’re still not great, but they’re not terrible either.
With that said, no one should be making 3rd and 19’s, but every once and a while, even the blindest of squirrels find the tastiest of nuts. It happens. If they did it more than once I could see the real worry, but it’s going to happen occaisionally.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 13, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradshaw v Ben - laughable
With all due respect, Bradshaw deserved most of the crap that was given to him. If you’re going to condemn Ben for having a poor SB 40 performance in only his second NFL season in a winning effort that’s fine, but let’s not sugar coat Bradshaw’s performances early in his career. There’s no comparison. You want some numbers to dwell on. Here you go:
It took Bradshaw 6 seasons to have a passer rating better than 65. Yep. That’s right 65. His first five seasons in the league here was his passer ratings: 30.4, 59.7, 64.1, 54.5 and 55.2.
On the other hand here are Ben’s numbers: 98.1, 98.6, 75.4, 104.1, 80.1, and 102.6 so far this season.
It took Bradshaw 6 seasons before his team won a SB. Ben has a chance to win his third in only his sixth season.
In only his second season Ben led his team to a SB title by winning three road games against the #1, #2 and #3 seeded teams in the AFC and #1 seeded team in the NFC. His passer rating during those PO games were amazing sans the SB: 148.7 against CIN, 95.3 against IND, 124.9 against DEN and 22.6 against SEA.
It took Bradshaw 25 games to have two games with a QB rating above 100. It took Ben 3 PO games in his Sophomore season to match those numbers of Bradshaw.
There’s no other way around it sir. With regards to this point, you are dead wrong.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on, the passing rules were tremendously different for Bradshaw
You could bump a receiver all day before and sometimes after the ball was thrown
No sissy rules such as you can’t hit the quarterback low or in the head
The head slap to linemen was legit
Bradshaw passed in some of the most difficult situations imagined. Lynn Swan constantly with concussions.
by 72Steeler on Oct 13, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
As I told another poster earlier today. Pick whatever category you want. Thus far in his career Ben’s numbers and success on the field during the regular AND postseason are second to none. Certainly not to Terry.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made a mistake
Bradshaw won his first SB in 1975 following the 1974 regular season. SO he first won the SB in his 5th season, not his sixth as I originally posted. Sorry for the misinformation.
by King Coebra on Oct 15, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Criticism not allowed
Hey man, don’t you know the rules here??
by Billy52 on Oct 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Criticism is allowed, criticism with no knowledge of what you are talking about is discouraged.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 13, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradshaw VS Ben
it is true about Bradshaws numbers, but in the early years, QBS were not protected and receivers were mauled down field…Not taking anything away from Ben, it is a different game.
by nycsteelerfan on Oct 13, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is very true...
It’s extremely difficult to compare players from different era’s, and stats don’t tell the whole story most of the time.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
If you want to dismiss passer rating as a valid stat what criteria are you going to use?
Team record? adv Ben
Playoff apps? adv Ben
Playoff results? adv Ben
Any significant passer stat? adv Ben
No matter how you slice it the bottom line is that Bradshaw and the Steelers were not good his first two seasons in the league. Bradshaw was 8-13. Ben was 22-3. Bradshaw was 0-0 in the postseason. Ben was 5-1. It took Bradshaw six seasons to win his first ring. Ben, playing his sixth season right now already has two.
It seems to me to be pretty conclusive that to this point in their respective careers, Ben is light years ahead of where Bradshaw was as a QB. Is anybody seriously disputing this apparent fact?
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't dismiss it...
I never said it meant nothing at all. I wasn’t around to see Terry play, and I didn’t say one was better than the other… ever. I don’t know. Simply pointing out a truth, stats aren’t an accurate berometer of skill across era’s. You had me fairly convinced the first time, but NYC made a valid point, and I agreed.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem
I was just trying to support my point with some factual evidence. Not everybody has to agree although they should ;). I just was curious as to why somebody would not agree.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did Bradshaw compare to his peers? That would be the best way to compare their infinitely huge balls.
by OHSteelerfan on Oct 13, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I get time
I’ll do a comparison of Bradshaw to his peers at that time. I do understand it is a different game now than it was then. I was just refuting the claim that Ben was only “responsible for one SB” when all of us who have closely followed this team – including, I’m sure the poster of that claim – know firsthand that it was Ben’s play in the playoffs that got us to the SB. To downplay his significance and not credit his accomplishments in only his second season in the league is laughable to me. While I expect it from fans of other teams, I don’t understand it coming from a Steeler fan.
I do know that Bradshaw’s team’s had losing records his first two season’s in the league, while Ben led his team to an overall record of 31-7 during his first two seasons including two AFC title game appearances and a ring. Bradshaw was not very good in his early years while Ben has been exceptional. That’s the point I was trying to make.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I reallly can't compare the two.
Wasn’t born until 82.
by OHSteelerfan on Oct 13, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Passer ratings for 1970 and 1971 seasons
I just looked up the 8 teams that made the POs those two years and compared them to Bradshaw. Here is what I came up with:
SF Brodie 93.8
DET Landry, Greg 92.5
DAL Morton 89.8
DET Munson, Bill 76.7
OAK Lamonica 76.5
MIA Griese 72.1
CIN Carter, Virgil 66.9
BAL Unitas 65.1
MIN Cuozzo, Gary 64.3
PIT Hanratty 46.1
PIT Bradshaw 30.4
DAL Staubach 104.8
MIA Griese 90.9
KC Dawson 81.6
WAS Kilmer 74
SF Brodie 65
CLE Nelson, Bill 60.3
MIN Lee 60.3
PIT Bradshaw 59.7
BAL Morrall 58.2
BAL Unitas 52.3
MIN Cuozzo 52.2
As expected, Bradshaw’s numbers don’t look very good. There’s a reason he was oft criticized during his early years. He wasn’t very good and neither were the Steelers.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Passer ratings for 2004 and 2005 seasons
These are the numbers for the QBs whose teams made the POs in Ben’s first two seasons in the league:
IND Manning 121.1
MIN Culpepper 110.9
SD Brees 104.8
PHI McNabb 104.7
PIT Roethlisberger 98.1
STL Bulger 93.7
NE Brady 92.6
GB Favre 92.4
NYJ Pennington 91
DEN Plummer 84.5
SEA Hasselbeck 83.1
ATL Vick 78.1
IND Manning 104.1
CIN Palmer 101.1
PIT Roethlisberger 98.6
SEA Hasselbeck 98.2
NE Brady 92.3
DEN Plummer 90.2
JAX Leftwich 89.3
CAR Delhomme 88.1
WAS Brunell 85.9
JAX Garrard 83.9
TB Simms 81.4
TB Griese 79.6
NYG Manning, E 75.9
CHI Orton 59.7
As expected, Ben is near the top of the charts in both seasons.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude you are really beating this to death
by worldtrip on Oct 14, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the problem?
I was asked to provide this info by another poster so I did. If you don’t want to read it then please feel free to skip it.
by King Coebra on Oct 14, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point well taken
Ben did an awesome job whipping up on the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos and leading us to SB 40… But Ben has his struggles though, especially staring down a receiver. Check how many passes Brady, Manning, Brees, have thrown for a pic 6? I couldn’t locate the stats.
by 72Steeler on Oct 13, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben rarely stares down his receiver anymore. Every time he gets intercepted does not mean it was because he started down his receiver, and picks are not always the qb’s fault.
I do think it is too early in his career to state that Ben will be considered a better qb than Bradshaw when his career is done, but to state that he has had a significantly better start to his career through 6 seasons than Bradshaw did is tough to argue.
by worldtrip on Oct 13, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have the time
to break down the numbers for every QB in the league right now. To me it’s really quite simple. Who would I rather have running my football team?
Brees? He puts up impressive numbers but has he ever done anything in the postseason? He’s a great fantasy QB and I have him on my team for that, but I wouldn’t want him running the Steelers over Ben. Would you?
Manning? Another great fantasy QB who loves to accumulate outrageous stats against lesser opponents and is a perennial fixture in the Pro Bowl. While he’s clearly a dominating regular season QB, he’s proven time and time again in the postseason that he can’t get it done. You couldn’t pay me to take him over Ben. I might be in the minority with that opinion, but to me the most important stat is postseason success and Manning has a losing record when it counts the most. Thanks but no thanks.
Brady? Great regular and post season numbers. Prior to his injury I’d have definitely considered him over Ben, but he’s several years older than Ben and coming off a devastating injury. No thanks. Not any more.
Give me Ben every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Who cares if he throws the occasional pick 6. He’s gotten the job done when it counts the most and only now appears to be entering his prime.
by King Coebra on Oct 13, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but can Dare Devil beat Spiderman?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Oct 14, 2009 8:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wolverine beats em both
Pain is temporary pride is forever
by Heartofsteel on Oct 15, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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