With Visions of Hall of Fame, Hines' Sight is 20-20

by maryrose on Oct 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT Comment 86 comments

Most of Steeler Nation already believes that Hines Ward has earned his way into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Outside the Nation, the ballot box is not so stuffed. In fact, you'll find many who debate that more work needs to be done. I have been in more than a few cat fights with rivals who hate us, hate Ward, and refuse to give Hines his due. So be it for the moment. Their time is running out.

Hines_ward_3_medium

There is no question that the recent metamorphosis of the Steelers' offense is helping Hines Ward prove to the Doubting Thomas's that he belongs. Thus far this season, the line has raised its level of play to become adequate in the run game and "above the line" in pass protection. Rashard Mendenhall seems to be the perfect running back in the system; a little size, a little speed, a little quick, able to block the blitz and able to catch out of the backfield. Heath Miller is having a blast, Tone is making first downs and Ben is having the time of his life distributing the ball all over the field. Together, everybody is eating.

Perhaps no one is enjoying the offense coming of age more so than Hines Ward, who might be putting the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame discussion. Though quiet this past weekend, Ward is leading the NFL in receptions covering 20 yards or more (10), is second in receiving yards (602) and is fourth in total receptions (42). Ward is lingering on several NFL career receiving lists that, with reasonably modest acceleration, could put him on the very highest level of all-time NFL receivers.

There are only five players who have passed the 1,000-catch milestone. Ward stands at 842 and can join that list with reasonable expectation. He has 74 touchdown receptions and 10,382 receiving yards. Fifteen more touchdowns and 1,800 more yards put him in the top 10 in both of those fraternities. If those things happen, the discussion ends.

But let's take a look at the here and now, and compare Ward to receivers already in Canton. It is not fair to go back far in time, since the game has changed so much. Don Hutson dominated his position every bit the way Jerry Rice did the same, but Hutson's numbers are a far cry from Rice's due to the way the game has evolved. Thus, let's just compare Ward to the six Hall of Famers who have retired since 1985.

**Hall of Fame Wide Receivers Retired Since 1985**
Name	Receiving Yards	Touchdown Catches	Receptions	Pro Bowls	Super Bowl Titles
Michael Irvin	11,904	65	750	5	3
Charlie Joiner	12,146	65	750	3	0
Steve Largent	13,089	100	819	7	0
James Lofton	14,004	75	764	8	0
Art Monk	12,721	68	940	3	3
John Stallworth	8,723	63	537	4	4
Hines Ward	10,382	74	842	4	2

Only Steve Largent has more TD catches (Ward will pass Lofton any day now), and Ward has more receptions than Largent. Of course, Ward is not only "competing" against those already inducted, but also with six other active players (below) who will have lobby groups of their own.

**Active Receivers With Some Hall of Fame Credentials**
Name	Age	Receiving Yards	TD Catches	Receptions	Pro Bowls	Super Bowl Titles
Issac Bruce	36	15,134	91	1,018	4	1
Torry Holt	32	13,067	74	896	7	1
Derrick Mason	34	10,442	54	816	2	0
M. Muhammad	35	11,076	61	831	2	0
Terrell Owens	35	14,364	140	969	5	0
Randy Moss	31	13,766	120	886	6	0
Hines Ward	33	10,382	74	842	4	2

Looking at this list, Ward is already ahead of Derrick Mason and Muhsin Muhammad. He is also younger. It is a no-brainer that Terrell Owens and Randy Moss will pose for the bust. That leaves Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, teammates for many years, who are right there with Hines. The third group (below) are those receivers who are not in the Hall, no longer active, but have numbers that deserve some level of discussion. There are 10 in this bunch.

**Retired Receivers With Some Hall of Fame Credentials**
Name	Receiving Yards	TD Catches	Receptions	Pro Bowls	Super Bowl Titles
Tim Brown	14,934	100	1,094	9	0
Chris Carter	13,899	130	1,101	8	0
Henry Ellard	13,777	65	814	3	0
Irving Fryar	12,785	84	851	5	0
Marvin Harrison	14,580	123	1,102	8	1
K. McCardell	11,373	63	883	2	1
Andre Reed	13,198	87	951	7	0
Jerry Rice	22,895	197	1,549	13	3
Jimmy Smith	12,287	67	862	5	0
Rod Smith	11,389	70	849	3	2
Hines Ward	10,382	74	842	4	2

First off with this list, remove Jerry Rice. He gets his own wing. Tim Brown, Chris Carter and Marvin Harrison have also earned a ticket. Like Owens and Moss, if you catch 100 touchdowns and surpass 10,000 yards, you should go straight to the Hall without passing go or collecting $200.

Looking at the whole ball of wax, those already in and those still playing or retired with discussion numbers, Ward has three intangibles also in his favor, none of which should be taken lightly. First, he is an unquestioned leader. Not all elite receivers are leaders. In fact, some are malcontents and even peripheral liabilities. The football world knows Hines Ward is the heart and soul of the Pittsburgh Steelers and his ballot will be reflected accordingly.

Second, it is universally known that Ward is one of the best blocking receivers, if not the best, to ever play the game. Time and time again his blocking acumen is referred to as the gold standard. He has elevated the notion of receivers blocking to a higher level. The NFL has gone to the extent of changing a rule after a legal Hines Ward block. Ask Mel Blount, when they name a rule after you (informally speaking), you have taken a piece of the game to another level. That's Hall of Fame.

Third, Ward is a big-game player. He has two Super Bowl rings. Hall of Fame voters don't take that lightly. Just ask Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. Moreover, he is one of only six receivers in history to have achieved a Super Bowl MVP. Only franchise mates Lynn Swann and Santonio Holmes, in addition to Fred Belitnikoff, Jerry Rice and Deion Branch, join Ward in that elite fraternity.

Best of all, Ward is only 33 and a half years old. He is proving this season that he has a lot of gas in the tank. The best may be yet to come. And for all of the non-believers and Ward bashers, get your licks in while you can. Your time is running out.

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great stuff 'rose

Ward is on pace for 54 more receptions and 765 more yards, which would put his all-time numbers at 896 rec with over 11,000 yards after the regular season.

by acrollet on Oct 27, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd

Great post!

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well done

Thanks for putting together very interesting stats. I truly think Ward’s best years numbers wise are yet to come simply due to Ben’s maturity and emergence as one of the top QBs in the league. If his numbers are close, his reputation as an all around player should propel him into the hall.

by qwikdoc on Oct 27, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good stuff. But I thought one of NewEngland's receivers won a super bowl MVP as well.

by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Oct 27, 2009 6:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

deon branch?

by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Oct 27, 2009 6:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, good catch...

I updated the story…I was just seeing if anyone out there was paying attention…:)

Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history

by maryrose on Oct 27, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i always pay attention when you write something

by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Oct 27, 2009 7:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks much

Now if only I could get my kids to pay attention to me.

Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history

by maryrose on Oct 28, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't that what candy is for?

Or the empty threats of being shipped off to Juvie Hall?

by SteelersVT on Oct 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not candy, spankins.

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a little weird to spank 23 year olds.

by SteelersVT on Oct 28, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you smokin?

If she’s hot and 23 thats very spankable….

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

more to come

Hines, bettis, Big ben and troy will ALL go to the hall!

by nycsteelerfan on Oct 27, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Faneca will as well.

by DwightWhite's Missing Tooth on Oct 27, 2009 7:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

right!

Cant argue there! 5 future HOF from our 2005 team! how many from the pats SUPER BOWL WINNING TEAMS?

by nycsteelerfan on Oct 27, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Casey Hampton?

He has a shot.

Dick LeBeau as well.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Oct 28, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not enough Pro-Bowls for Snack.

LeBeau is going in this year on the senior ballot. Especially after the Woodson speech.

Aaron Smith could go, if he comes back healthy next year, gets 2 more pro-bowls, and at least one more Superbowl Ring before he hangs up his cleats.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive linemen...

The hardest position to get into the hall of fame playing. With the odvious exception of kickers and punters. Only a handful of DL in in the last 20 years (5 I think).

'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin

by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 28, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Especially from a 3-4

Because you just dont get the sacks…

Im afraid Smith wont get in. He’s great yes, but just lacks the push from numbers. Especially when you consider some of the other DL ends working out of the 4-3 that he’ll have to face against.

You got Sapp and Peppers, Jared Allen though hes a bit younger is making a line for the hall, and yeah theres just too many high sack guys.

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of that is true, but if Seymore makes it in I'll blow a damn gasket!!!

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 28, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats a valid point

I personally think Seymour gets in for playing with the cheaters.

He did play very versatile football, even playing FB though.

But yeah smith has more numbers, course that is expected with 2 more years of play.

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Year in and year out Smith has better numbers.

Blitz did a comparison about 2 years ago. It was quite amazing to see that Smith is actually statistically better, but recieves less credit than Seymore.

Too lazy to look it up.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 29, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lovely write up

Great stuff as always and once again further proof Hines belongs…

I have to say, when you referenced the recent guys still active though, I personally could see Bruce and Holt as bonafide gimmes. Moreso than TO.

Now granted TO dominated and had numbers. But how much does the whiney bitchy attitude and demeanor factor into the final vote? Not to mention the lack of a ring.

Randy Moss IMO probably will get in, he seems to have shaped up his antics and he’s got plenty of life left.

I personally would have a hard time voting TO. I respect his super bowl performance on that busted ankle like no other, but at the same time he’s just been such an ass. The sport is a privilege.

by Mechem on Oct 27, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

TO

I agree on TO. I have a hard time putting a guy who single-handedly tore his team apart (Philly after ‘04 SB) in the Hall. But, he’ll probably get in just on numbers. What ~~may~~ should hurt him is that he’s shown himself to be all about his numbers, moreso than team.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He will wait for it, he’ll have to reinvent himself to get in.

Dallas and Buffalo he didn’t look dominant, and he drops a lot of balls. The writers won’t go for him early at all. I think Hines could get in first of the two, and TO might even help Hines get in. TO is pretty much the anti-Hines.

by Phantaskippy on Oct 27, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TO is in, for or bad

For a period of time, he was the dominant receiver in the league and the number of TD’s is second only to Rice. I don’t like the guy and I think he’s probably ticketed for a Dr. Drew reality show when his football career dies, but he’s a HOF guy.

by pghnorthside on Oct 28, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Supposed to be "for good or bad"

My bad

by pghnorthside on Oct 28, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Micheal Irving was a royal assclown in his day too!

But he made it in with lesser numbers. Though his Superbowl Titles helped him more than TO.

TO will get in as much for his numbers as his notoriety. He may not get in right away, but his notoriety will ensure that he doesn’t languish as long as the Andre Reeds of the league.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 28, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

to me SB rings can offset assholery.

Its why I still love Jeff Reed. You are allowed one arrest per ring didnt you know?

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Irvin

was known as an excellent teammate. TO is known as the consummate “me first” guy.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, TO doesn't share his drugs and hookers!

Selfish jerk almost killed himself a few years ago, if only he’d shared with his teammates!

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate Irvin just as much as the next guy

but he didn’t purposefully destroy his own team like TO. I did cause the ‘boys some distress that year, which I enjoyed, but he just thought he wouldn’t get caught. TO started ragging on his QB and acting like a complete jerk for more money after one year on a 6 or 7 year contract.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 30, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well done ...

I’m sold.

by tenthmtnman on Oct 27, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great article MR

However, talking about HoF with Ward makes me sad because I realize that it ultimately means he will no longer be a part of this team. :(

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Oct 27, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Fine post

as usual MR. The stats alone should guarantee that he gets in. The other factors that you mention such as leadership should make a first ballot selection.

See you at the induction.

by RickVa on Oct 27, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jerry Reed

Hines has a long way to go and a short time to get there. Great post MR. I liked what Ward said that 10,000 yards in the burg was like 12,000 somewhere else( maybe until this year).

I loved the stats you posted, but they scare me for Hines. I am worried we are in a stats 1st/fantasy football/ video game generation. I need to read up on how the HOF voting works.

by SteelBuckeye on Oct 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HOF voting

I watched the HOF show on NFLN a few weeks ago, when they announced the latest round up to this point. They had two HOF voters, and one them said that a big criteria for her is whether you could tell the story of the NFL without mentioning the player in question. I don’t think you can for Ward. Of course, that’s just one voter, and the voting process is all about perspectives and opinions. Sports journalists are the voters.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thx Wolf

Beat FSU this weekend!

This is what worries me about Hines, the press only love numbers, and by the time the vets vote(in my opinion most guys respect him, but they don’t like him.)

by SteelBuckeye on Oct 27, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go Noles!

by xaryss on Oct 28, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad they won last week ;)

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 28, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

East bound and down

Loaded up and truckin’
A’we gonna do what they say can’t be done.

We got a long way to go
And a short time to get there
I’m east bound just watch ol’ Bandit run

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Oct 28, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We might

if our secondary can stop anyone. For the first year, in Tom O’Brien’s tenure, I don’t think we’ve had a huge rash of injuries, but the ones that have come have hit the secondary real hard.

I think Hines gets in with his numbers, a SB MVP, and rule change named after him.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Meant to reply to you, SteelBuckeye

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hine should also end next season with the most games played in a Steeler uniform, I believe Donny Shell is #1 with 201 games played. Hines has 177, and 25 regular season games to the end of next season. That puts him at 202.

I could be wrong, but I can’t find anyone with more than Shell’s 201 games.

by Phantaskippy on Oct 27, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Forgot to make the point.

Point being, Hines Ward is going to retire as Mr. Steeler. That one player that defines a franchise more than any other player. I think that will be a factor in the voting.

You can’t tell the story of the Pittsburgh Steelers without Hines. More than any other player outside of the Super Steelers of the 70’s. But I think Hines trumps them as he’s been a great player in two Steeler era’s, he played with Kordel and all the guys after, and is a focal point of the new Steelers. As well as being considered the greatest slot receiver ever by a growing number of analysts..

by Phantaskippy on Oct 27, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutey fantastic MaryRose.

Seriously, one of the best write-ups I have read in a while, on a great subject, and a great player.

I thought this segment was the best and meatiest part…although there were more meat nuggets in this piece than a bowl of my home made chili. (I almost never put beans in my chili…usually a lot of meat though!)

“Second, it is universally known that Ward is one of the best blocking receivers, if not the best, to ever play the game. Time and time again his blocking acumen is referred to as the gold standard. He has elevated the notion of receivers blocking to a higher level. The NFL has gone to the extent of changing a rule after a legal Hines Ward block. Ask Mel Blount, when they name a rule after you (informally speaking), you have taken a piece of the game to another level. That’s Hall of Fame.”

Yes, that is Hall of Fame…:)

"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58

by __.58.__ on Oct 27, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Duddde

Beans AND meat. And peppers. Lots of peppers.

And some hot sauce.

God I want some chili…

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My chilli...

2 # of good steak, marinated, then grilled on high heat for just a few mins each side to sear it.
1 # or so of good pork.
Huge can of tomatoes (diced, puree’d, whatever’s available) (i usually use 28 to 64 + oz)
1 bottle of a good dopplebock (guinness or an IPA if you cant find a dopplebock- I use celebrator)
onions, cubanelle peppers, chipotle peppers
chipotle salsa (best ever is frontera’s )
beans (i use kidney and black beans)
spices include cumin, haitian anise, green cardamom, coriander, very coarse black pepper, sea salt, fresh chopped cilantro (add cilantro after chilli is done)
1/2 cup + of vermont maple syrup
You can also add a cup of good black coffee

throw it all in a crockpot if you dont want to watch it.

Last thing is to get good bread bowls, some aged vermont cheddar…

this stuff is always gone before the game is over.

by SteelersVT on Oct 28, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That sounds awesome

And very close to my own recipe. I made one at my fraternity house many years ago with about 20# of leftover prime rib. Sort of a waste of rib, but by god that was the best chili ever. You can’t discount the improvement when you use a meat that shreds itself while it stews over ground beef.

I also like to throw in some bulk sausage. I like the addition of a little fennel seed from the sausage. I have also used some masa flour to thicken my chili in the past, to very good success. I prefer to rinse my canned beans and use masa rather than let the sort of gooeyness from the beans provide the thickening. More control.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Oct 28, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Masa! Yeah- Thats something I want to use, but ALWAYS forget to buy.

I do throw in WK corn though. I’d like to try a ort of pulled pork meat with it one day. I’ve had venison chilli once, but I can’t shoot animals.

by SteelersVT on Oct 28, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

omg sounds so good...

See I prefer a simpler, multi-use chili.

Stirfry some simple steak slivers with green and red peppers, red onion, with some franks red hot being thrown in the mix. Kidney beans too…

then ya just mix er up, and you got a super yummy but simple chili that you can throw on just about anything. I prefer to top hot-dogs and nachos with it. I go multi-purpose.

But yeah theres no chili here in Peru…. Cant wait for this visit home to go on an eating spree.

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Sold

Hines’ jersey is the only one I own. I adore the man. But if his career ended today I don’t think he gets in. He is easily the most hated Steeler by those outside of Steeler Nation and has a reputation — if undeserved — as being a “dirty player.” I do agree, though, that a few more years at his current pace cinches it. Also that intangibles matter and his SB MVP and reputation as a different kind of WR — tough, wily, a leader — will help. I must admit that I was a little awed by the numbers for recent/current WRs not yet in the HOF. Several are locks IMO — Rice, Harrison, Brown, Carter — and the voters don’t like to bring in too many players from one position in any given year.

by Citizen of Steeler Nation on Oct 27, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the voters don’t like to bring in too many players from one position in any given year

That’s one reason I think he may have to wait. But, I do think he gets in eventually.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point about the glut of receivers

I tried to be fair about pointing them all out. If Hines has this and two more years of productivity, he will rise on the charts, but it will be interesting to see how many of the current and retired receivers get in.

Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history

by maryrose on Oct 28, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

his SB rings would make the difference then. I am hoping they get another one this year to help him. Maybe he can even hang around for a 4th in a couple of years. I know…I am getting way ahead of myself! Just dreaming.

Erik

by ekl on Oct 29, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

repeat SB champs this year

wouldn’t hurt his chances

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Oct 27, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

3 rings

and — who knows? — maybe a second MVP and yes, he is Canton-bound.

by Citizen of Steeler Nation on Oct 27, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

He’s got my vote. A great player and all around contributer, consistent and exciting to watch!

by jdlbc on Oct 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i will be a very disappointed fan

if he doesn’t get in. he is my favorite football player of all time. so i’m really biased, and it is hard for me to think about it objectively. i think his intangibles make him a lock, but most voters are just looking for tangibles, probably. so, we’ll see.

...die trying
http://www.agentorangerecords.blogspot.com

by agentorange on Oct 27, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't take anything for granted

Hines Ward is a HOFer.But for years,Dermonti Dawson was called “future HOFer” during every broadcast.I think they called him that because they knew was a worthy addition to the HOF.Especially after he was elected to the 75th anniversary all-time team.Sure,he was still playing.But in all these years the NFL’s been around,he’s the best.Then he retires.His resume didn’t get worse after he retired,did it?
But now,no one mentions him in the HOF.How is that?
That’s why I worry about Hines.Today,he’s a future Hof’er.When the time actually comes,the voters could be completely ignorant.

by julio29 on Oct 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great point about Dawson

The difference between Hines and Dawson are numbers. Receivers get them and centers don’t. Hines also has a couple rings and a Super Bowl MVP. I’m not saying that Dawson isn’t as deserving, because I think he is. All I’m saying is that in a couple years Hines could have compelling numbers (hopefully).

Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history

by maryrose on Oct 28, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dawson can still get in, too

He’s been on the short list that just misses the cut a few times so far. Of course, LC Greenwood is also usually among that list.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 28, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's my own personal criteria

Whatever the base line of stats are, whether a wide reciever or QB or linebacker or in other sports for that matter, once a player moves beyond that minimum stats requirement, it becomes a subjective analysis. Some guys are no-brainers. But I think guys that are just guys that happen to be in the right situation for a long enough period of time to accrue numbers but don’t stand out when you watch them, don’t deserve to get the call.

For example, one player from the above list who was a fine player, but also happened to hang around a very gifted offensive minded coach for a long time was Rod Smith. He deserves a lot of credit for coming from an unheralded background and having a magnificent career, but not once when I watched him did I gasp at his athletic brilliance.

Plus, I think Hines’ stats should be adjusted for playing so long with some of the worst quarterbacking in the post-merger NFL and a head coach that would start winding clock before halftime.

by pghnorthside on Oct 28, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great post ..

Slight aside here …. I’m reading this post and although we all know how great Jerry Rice was, when you see his stats on a the page lined up against all the other great WR’s from what is admittedly
a throwing era of football, the guy is UNBELIEVABLE .. I mean I really can’t my head around those numbers or the fact he was still so productive when he was approaching 40 .. man what a player .. !

As for Hines, I think for him to make it he will have to play 2-3 more years at this pace to get his numbers way up there .. because as you point out there are so many WR’s already queued up with great numbers already but for his overall package, including his blocking and the type of teams he played on he defo deserves a spot in the Hall.

BUT, the next Steeler on my list who I want to see don the yellow jacket (I’m already assuming Dick LeBeau is being measured up as we speak !!!) is Dermonti Dawson …

by Rash92 on Oct 28, 2009 6:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jerry Rice

Was the best receiver in football for over a decade, and he also played in a pass-happy offense with two of the best QBs to ever play the game. I think his numbers are commensurate with that.

Just imagine the kind of #s an in-his-prime Rice would be putting up now with all the rule changes that have taken place in the last several years.

by JHolmes on Oct 28, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you had told be that a wide receiver from a running team would have serious consideration for a Hall of Fame career, I’d say you were nuts. But, despite the run first attitude of the Steelers prior to Big Ben, Hines has had the needed receptions, and has turned wide receiver blocking into an art form. If I think of the the Steelrs players ov the past 15 years, he has as much consideration for it as anyone for his full resume.

by skyeandangus on Oct 28, 2009 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great post MR...

As always. Rec.

'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin

by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 28, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can already see

Hines crying during his inception speech. Great post MR. Rec’d

The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games

by chewiesteeler on Oct 28, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I had no idea...

Honestly, I didn’t realize there were those who think that Hines DOESN’T belong in the hall.

All of the above points were very good. Especially the point about having a rule put in the books to stop you from doing that thing that you do…

I find it interesting that “The Brady Rule” is a rule that protects Tom Brady from the rest of the NFL.

“The Hines Ward rule” is a rule that protects the rest of the NFL from Hines.

I cannot imagine him not being a first ballot HOFer, to be honest…

by MarkJoel66 on Oct 28, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The competition issue is a fair point

There is a glut of receivers either recently retired or still playing (16 in fact), in addition to Ward, who can make a case for themselves. That’s a lot. It’s fair to say that all 16 will not get in. Hines would do well to boost his numbers a bit to give him more separation.

Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history

by maryrose on Oct 28, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remind me again...

Which of those 16 has two Super Bowl rings and a Super Bowl MVP?

by MarkJoel66 on Oct 29, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find it interesting that "The Brady Rule" is a rule that protects Tom Brady from the rest of the NFL.

The Hines Ward rule" is a rule that protects the rest of the NFL from Hines.

There’s a Chuck Norris joke in there somewhere.

by Hines Ward on Oct 28, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hines Ward and James Harrison are more deserving than chucky.

You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"

by steelguy99 on Oct 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally saw that too

You beat me to it…

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hines = HOF

Maybe not first ballot but he will get in.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Oct 28, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now what are you going to write for next year's Maple Street Press?

Excellent read, as always, and a fantastic follow up on the piece from the Steelers Digest from MSP.

I hope that Hines does finsih his season the same way he started it, then you would only need to update the numbers, you already have a ready made piece for next year’s Digest.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Oct 28, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

jholmes

you make two very good points about rice. the numbers he put up with two of the best qbs to ever play and what his numbers would be if he played today. how well do you think he would be playing if he played for san fran today. thats one of the things that people don’t seem to consider is the qb who is throwing to them. now if he had played with peyton then he would have been just as good but what if he had been drafted by cleveland and had d. anderson throwing to him.

by billsteelcity on Oct 28, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

one more thing about j.r.

he only had 3 superbowl titles thought it was higher than that ?

by billsteelcity on Oct 28, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem is that the media/fans are becoming too stat heavy. They want big numbers and Ward doesn’t always provide that. HOWEVER, Hines is a difference maker on the field with his leadership, experience, and of course blocking. What has always impressed me is how he has played the game. Try to think of one time when you didn’t see him smiling after a play, whether it was good or not. He plays for the love of the game and you see it in his face every down. In my mind that makes him an ambassador of the game that the NFL would want in the HoF.

by SteelersfanATX on Oct 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I got one!

After his fumblah in the Ten’Teeth Titans game I did not see the smile…

Just felt like giving you one. Thats the only one I can think of though.

by Mechem on Oct 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I loved Coach T

Did you see the NFL Films bit on that? As the Steelers were coming through the tunnel, back into the locker room, Coach T is slapping hands of the players as they come by… and Hines just puts his head down and walked past…

Mike T says: “Stop beating your dog, 86. We won! It’s over…”

by MarkJoel66 on Oct 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1st Round

No – prime example ? Chris Carter, if Chris isn’t a first rounder then doubt Hines is. His numbers are crazy and yet he was passed over. Why because they want Jerry Rice to have the distinction of being the 1st Rounder, then everyone comes after that. Will he get in? Of Course – I think he will play till he gets 1000 receptions just to make sure. I know its something he wants it shows. One more super bowl +1000 receptions, there will be no excuse

by tannofsteel84 on Oct 28, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Carter

has no SB rings. But, he should already be in. He deserves it more than Irvin, but rings make a big difference.

For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Oct 28, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget the stats

Anyone who has watched this guy play football over the years knows that he belongs in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. 150% effort all the time, game after game. Crunching blocks that the other big-name receivers can’t match. Scores of clutch, 1st- down receptions in the face of withering hits from safeties and linebackers. Always reaching for the extra yard and the goal line. All the while, flashing that great big smile!

Hines Ward is more than just Hall of Fame material, he’s the greatest football player I have ever had the pleasure to watch. If I’m starting an offense from scratch, give me ten more guys with Ward’s attitude and we’ll never lose a game.

by Billy52 on Oct 28, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs