If we have Holmes returning punts and he gets his bell rung we’re out our #1 receiver. Not good for an offense that’s clicking. I think Logan will get his return for 6, it’s coming and we’re only 4 games deep. I see it happening against the Lions this week so I hope he plays.

On Limas. Throw throw throw him the ball. Let him take enough receptions to where it’s as common as breathing. Alright maybe that’s a little over the top but he has to get the ball to get the nerves out. Shorter routes where he still has a man in coverage around him. It seems he’s the best in that position. This week and the next are going to be the weeks where Sweed can shine.

I hope Chris is alright. He had such a stellar game last Sunday and it can only get better before the bye.

Gentleman we have a chance to catch fire before the bye. We can crush the competition and go into our week off, rest, and game plan on how we can go to Denver and take down the over-rated Broncos. Let’s go Steelers!

My first thought is in response to number 2. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, that’s an exaggeration. :) But, Burnett fumbled twice in the preseason on returns. That’s enough for me to not want to see him returning kicks at all this year. I’d rather have Carey Davis returning it. ;)

Number 1 makes sense, and I don’t think that Holmes has fumbled PRs for a while like he did in his rookie year.

Number 3: Who’s backing up Kemo? Would Urbik be worth it? It seems that he struggled in the preseason.

Number 4: Mike Wallace is precisely who benefitted from Logan being in that 4 by 1 set, by holding some of the defenders due to their fear of his speed.

Number 5: Don’t know. It seems that Sweed was worked in anyway. If you’re taking up a roster spot for someone who’s not producing (Sweed, right now) and giving up Logan, that seems like a net loss.

Finally, just to comment on Logan’s fumble in the game. Either my eyes have been playing tricks on me or Logan was clearly pushed back at least two yards and then his progress (or regress) was stopped for a moment or two before he was stripped of the ball. The fact that he was pushed back two yards tells me the whistle should have blown. When a guy catches a ball near the sideline, if he is pushed back while trying to get out of bounds, they say forward progress was stopped and give him the ball at the point of forward progress, but the clock keeps moving. Anyway, just a little rant on that play.

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He also backs up Colon. I posted Willie Colon’s Backup? last night because I didn’t have the presence of mind to consult a depth chart. Someone had to tell me. Eh, well.

I guess you could use Mewelde Moore or Shaun McDonald to return punts and Wallace to return kicks. You can activate Urbik but I think it’s a mistake.

Logan has done a good job KR & PR and while he did fumble (regardless of circumstances, it’s on the tape) I think he has real potential to be a playmaker. In addition he has contributed with special teams tackles and in the offensive set as a decoy. I know eventually Arians will figure out how to get him the ball in space.

Foster or Legursky who are already active are better options to replace Kemo should ge go down on game day. Urbik will contribute very little to the overall effort unless there are numerous injuries to the OL during a game.

I don’t suppose we could get Joe Burnett out there as the scramble receiver? Thought not…

I would like to see Urbik get some playing time, for the same reasons that people want Sweed to get playing time.

I think this would be a dumb decision, and that is coming from me. I knew about this guy before he came to Pittsburgh, and he was a beast. He has all the abilities to become a big time returner. Giving up on him after 4 games just doesn’t seem Steeler like, you know?

And who would you go back to? Logan is the real deal, IMO.

I know a few of my points have been made, but I am going to make them anyway. There is NO way I want Holmes returning punts. That is just asking him to get injured. No no no.

There is no reason to get rid of Logan (at least not right now). He has looked great in coverage on special teams.

Also, I know Wallace is the speedy guy in our offense, but Logan brings something that Wallace doesn’t: shiftiness. He is small and can change direction much easier. I still want to see what he can do catching a ball on a screen or pseudo-screen. I am not saying we should “force” one to him or design a play for him to get the ball. but having him as a check down occassionally, like in the “hypocycloid” play, is intriguing.

I say keep him for now and we wait and see what the future holds as far as injuries and depth.

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And I’m not sure he’s serious, but I’ll play along. I actually do take an opposing view on Logan, partly just cuz it’s fun. But when I considered it, I decided I don’t really see him as a big threat to score. He is very shifty, but his top speed is not so hot. So he does make people miss at times, but then he gets dragged down from behind. And quite often he doesn’t make people miss so much after all. So I think he is perceived around the league as a guy who will be a 30 to 40 yard threat sometime, rather than a solid 90-yard threat. It’s still impressive. But Holmes is just as good inasmuch as he makes people unable to attempt a tackle because of his speed. Make people miss? That’s for suckers. Sure, I’d hate to see Holmes injured, but since he is getting paid a lot, maybe he can bring himself to multi-task like the rest of us.

I’ll have to disagree, although I was disappointed with the "fumble" against SD. I think Logan poses a significant threat anytime he is returning the ball. I think special teams coaches are accounting for him and kickers are kicking it higher to accommodate the coverage teams. This will naturally result in better field position even when the ball is fair caught. Logan currently ranks number 8 in total kick return yards and number 12 punt return yards. When compared to Holmes during the season, not counting the playoffs because we aren’t in the playoffs, Logan has 0.9 yards per return more as a punt returner. As a kick returner his average his higher by 3.6 yards over Gary Russell who had the highest yards per return last year among Steelers kick returners.
We are only four games into the season and it seems our average starting field position is much higher than last year. Even at 3.6 yards that’s one play that neither the defense or the offense have to be on the field to play each possession. At 45 seconds per possession that’s 7.5 minutes that the rest of the team can rest (assuming 10 possessions a game). I believe that by the end of the season he’ll have taken at least 2 returns all the way which will easily put him in a class with Holmes as a returner. I don’t like the option of Holmes as a returner for the injury aspect of things.
I also think that as a D coordinator I would stay up late trying to solve the Hypocycloid (or the HYPERcycloid) play and all of the options that could be run from it. All of the receivers ran straight up the field on that first glimpse of that play, what will happen when they mix it up from that formation and throw a few different looks at future opponents. Logan could be a significant threat from that formation.
As for Sweed, Logan isn’t taking opportunities from him, Wallace and McDonald are and I wouldn’t want to sit Wallace for Sweed to continue to disappoint. Sweed has had his chance. If he gets another he better not mess it up, but his screw ups aren’t a factor in the Sweed vs. Logan debate. In my opinion there is no Sweed vs. Logan debate the debate is Sweed vs. WR’s.

We are ranked 3rd overall in the league in KR/PR. Santonio is too valuable to be exposed to possible injury.

The NFL doesn’t switch to soccer in the playoffs. It’s still good old American football. Holmes return work in the playoffs nullifies the supposed statistical advantage of Logan. And if Holmes is too precious to return kicks, then Mike Wallace ought to have to return some kicks. He’s a rookie. Rookies return kicks.

Point is, Tomlin is a young coach, and young coaches like to make manly decisive choices about struggling players. But Urbik isn’t going anywhere. We are going to need him. We might as well get him dressed and playing and stop pretending that he is an utter washout because he’s having temporary trouble adapting to the NFL. And Logan will be gone in two years, snatched up as the flavor of the week by someone like Dan Snyder. Then we will have to live with Urbik’s inexperience, or cut him and try again with someone just like him. No thanks.

Once again, we are 3rd in the league in PR/KR! Minus the fumble, Logan is doing a fine job. Also, you don’t just dress an offensive lineman because you will need him in the future..Essex is light years ahead of Urbik.Urbik got completely destroyed at the combine(a few times by Ziggy Hood) and he is nowhere near ready to dress.

You know the Bears turned Hester into a receiver and look how that worked out for them.

Hester TD’s

2006, 5 returns.
2007, 6 returns, 2 recieving,
2008, 3 recieving.

Yeah, they made the right choice there.

The League, and fans underestimate the importance of a good returner. Logan not only is that, he is a great gunner, and a decoy/weapon they can use in unconventional packages like the Hypocycloid.

Getting rid of a weapon that gives you +20-50 yards a game over their replacement, stupid.

Logan isn’t Hester, but he’s the best returner we’ve had in a while. Is he less deserving of a spot than Anthony Madison was or Deshea Townsend is? The answer is yes.

So he hasn’t broken for a TD yet, and he fair catches or runs and we second guess him. All returners do that.

Final stats:
2008 Steelers: 6.0 yards per PR, 20.3 yards per KR.
Logan 2009: 7.5 yards per PR, 26.8 yards per KR.

He hasn’t broken any really big ones, and he’s beating the snot out of last years numbers. Sure we all would like for somebody to make the roster, but Logan isn’t the man to cut.

…the steelers dropped him because they added a quality safety to the team to help out more since Troy is still hurt, and who knows if/when he gets back that he’ll be 75% healed and/or doesn’t get hurt again. Shoring up the safety spots would be much more important than even getting Sweed some catches.

Since this is doubtful, I’d say keep Logan since this keeps Holmes from playing and maybe getting crushed and hurt on a return.

And i have to say I am stuck in the middle a little. I put no blame on Logan for the fumble play. Those things happen. Just ask Leodis McKelvin

However, call me old fashioned or whatever, but I never liked the idea of using up a whole roster spot for a return specialist, unless they are one of those Josh Cribbs, Devin Hester or the like kind of players. Stefan Logan is electrifying sure, but I do not get the same feeling watching him return kicks as i do Hester or Cribbs.

Thats not me saying I think we should cut him, but I am a big fan of Joe Burnett, and wouldnt mind seeing him return a few.

You can say nerves and fumbles etc, but i remember Santonio Holmes dropping a punt inside the 10 in his rookie year. You only mature when given the chance to mature.

Its a complex issue, but Stefan Logan sure has been good on coverage units, and is our best return threat we have had in a long time, without having to risk high calibre players such as Holmes.

Keep him for now. But if any more injuries pop up, he may be deemed expendable

I’m wondering if anyone remembers why the phrase “Santonio Holmes is back to receive the punt” used to make our blood curdle.

Holmes drops easy 12-yard outs that hit him in the hands. He fumbles punts with alarming regularity. He’s not the answer. Neither is Burnett, who apparently thought his facemask was what was used to field kicks.

As for deactivating Logan to add an O-lineman…. not an option. Urbik is going to have to learn the game at some point, but he only has long-term upside. Logan has immediate value.

Logan’s offensive value is worthless — on that point, I agree. But who’s sitting because of it? Sweed? We all saw how Mendenhall responded after getting benched for not knowing his assignments. Coach Tomlin has already said that Sweed “won’t see the ball again” until they’re sure he won’t drop it. If that day comes, maybe — MAYBE — this is an argument. Until then, it isn’t.

In other words, we’re only 4 games into the season. Special teams — even with Logan’s minor miscue (the play should have been called dead) — are vastly better than they were last year. The O-line play is better. Big Ben is better. The defense is struggling late, but it’s not like deactivating Logan to add a defensive player will help.

Logan stays… if not for his upside, then because there’s nothing to be gained by adding an Urbik or a Sweed to the active 45-man roster on Sundays.

Oh yeah, and Logan’s great play COVERING a kick in the first half? That’s worth a roster spot by itself. We’ll need him going up against guys like Josh Cribbs.

…mentioning that the camp is divided and that you’d get heat.

So I won’t blast you. :)

I’ll blast in a general sense ANY Steelers fan that flippin’ thinks for ONE SECOND that we are a better football team without Stefan “Lego Land” Logan returning punts and kicks for us.

I would pose the questions:

[] DO you REALLY not remember that far back, when our special teams sucked ARSE and was the bane of Cowher’s existence? He HATED fielding questions about the special teams, and rightfully so. The SUCKED.

I hated watching us kick off to people and watch them tear us to shreds right down the middle for yet another long return or even TD. And our returners…wow. We get one and win a Supe Bowl in the same year and suddenly we think we can afford 6 yards a return in field position? Are we THAT rich folks? How many yards a game is that by 6-12 total returns? Do the math, let me know when footbal stopped being a game of yards, and we’ll talk when you get your sanity back.

[] ‘Tone is NOT returning for us unless there’s an injury or a strange occasion. We cannot afford that.

[] Logan being stood up, pushed backwards, and no whistle being called…can you blame the dude for that?? Seriously? The refs needed to call that play, and they didn’t. That’s not entirely on Logan, and even if it was, I’ll take it. He wants to win, and you can see it. Every time he rips off a pretty damn nice return, and he hits the ground knowing he could have gotten more somehow…I like that.

[] Amused the thought of one of our deadbeat returners from last year…I’m not even going to honor their names as “return men”…horrid. Really?

[] The only thing I see is maybe getting Burnett in there, because that’s one of the reasons we drafted him. BUT…Tomlin knows what he’s doing, and maybe he’s doing it for a reaosn. But getting him in there would be a good idea, regardless.

[] That one play where everyone is flushed left, and Logan stayed back…brilliant. He froze those DB’s & LB’s so hard, it was what gave that play it’s bite. Reduce the possibility of the play working by 58.3% if he’s not staying camped in the flat like he was…beautiful. Who suggested ‘Tone take that role? C’mon….

Anyways, it’s late, I’m tired & cranky, and I read this post 4 hours ago & it got me all cranked up anyways.

I’m out. :)

I don’t understand the question and I refuse to respond to it.

The result is a 0.4 TD per game advantage to a team with a 4-yd field position edge, the equivalent of 2.8 points per game. But it wouldn’t work out exactly that way, because there is obviously no such thing as 0.4 touchdowns. So sometimes a team would end up with an additional TD, sometimes not, but perhaps sometimes 2 additional TDs. In my view, this effect is very meaningful.

from: http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/09/importance-of-field-position.html

don’t fix it.

I’m not willing to dismiss a guy who IS good for a player who MIGHT be good.

The argument against Holmes has already been made. Wallace is fast, but on PR/KR duty he needs to be shifty in order to get past the initial rush and put that speed to use. Burnett is a maybe, but I have to point this out: Logan got replaced with Moore for a few kicks in the SD game. They sat Logan and Burnett didn’t replace him. I don’t know what it is, but Tomlin must have a good reason for that choice.

Logan has some value as a gunner. Not only has he made some tackles, Logan’s top speed gets him down the field fast. He is often met by a two-man wedge. That’s two defenders he’s occupying. (Virtually a 4:1 ratio.) Tacklers like Andre Frazier can get a better read on the play because Logan reveals what the returning team is doing just a little bit sooner.

It’s taken awhile, but most of us are willing to accept that Big Ben will take more sacks because he doesn’t give up on a play. Yes, we will lose yards, but we also gain some big plays. Well, Logan’s mugging was a play cut from the same cloth. Logan doesn’t give up on plays. He’s always trying to get more yards. I particularly liked the play where he got knocked to the ground and kept his legs churning – slithering forward on his side. Sure, he was down and the refs didn’t buy his act, but it illustrates his persistence.

Finally, there’s Hypocycloid. Wallace is the sprinter who stretches the defense. Ward and Miller are both viable as excellent blockers as well as dangerous mid-range receiving threats. With Logan on the edge, Ben has a guy who can make the first tackler miss and pick up 10+ yards even if someone gets past Heath and Hines. Then you have Holmes on the opposite side. Unless the defense goes with a nickel package, one of those guys has to be covered by a linebacker.

You can put someone else in Logan’s position (Moore or Mendenhall), but they simply aren’t perceived as being dangerous in open space. A linebacker can take them down. If you were the DC, you’d want someone fast, agile, and skilled to cover Logan 1 on 1. Using him to cover joystick means he isn’t covering Ward, Holmes, or Wallace.

I was concerned at the beginning of the year and am more so now. I agree that he’s dynamic on kick returns, but unless he has plenty of room to return the punt he’s either going to fair catch it (something Davis could do) or fumble trying to make something happen. If they keep running him out there I’m certain at some point he’ll break on off, but at what cost?

I agree that Holmes is too valuable to stick back there, but Moore, Wallace, and even Macdonald would be fine. I also like the idea of building Sweed up with some easier passes just to get him going.

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Well, I tried to believe that and make a case for it, but I’m not feelin’ it. Logan stays….my permission is granted.

but hes also quite the distraction. The bears were very careful when punting to him, the Chargers made two guys keep an eye on him when we had him in that diamond set in the flats (Ben’s pump faked to him left wallace wide open)………this is a guy who barely made the team and is scaring teams…

We can put him on the field and have him stand in one spot and still he will get attention, opening up plays for other people.

You’re in the minority here Blitz, but good article nonetheless.

As Blitz noted, the so-called “fumble” by Logan was a lousy call, but it had nothing to do with him trying to extend the play. The Chargers were holding Logan upright so they could steal the ball. The whole thing was bogus and it made me suspect that the refs were shaving points.

Three quick reasons why we need to keep him:

1) Logan is a reliable ball handler. I’ve never seen the guy muff a punt or a kickoff.
2) Logan also plays well on the kick coverage teams.
3) Logan is versatile. You can use him as a third-down passing threat out of the backfield and also on reverses and screens. His open-field speed and moves are deadly.

Keep Sweed
Keep winning

Was anybody doubting Anthony Madison’s spot last year? Cause that’s the spot Logan really took and the guy was a gunner. Logan replaced him AND he returns punts and kickoffs. Plus he’ll probably contribute a few big plays on O before the season’s over. I think you lose Eason before even considering quitting on this guy. Urbik is not ready, by the way, and doesn’t enter the equation here IMO. Getting Sonny Harris back might be a good move if somebody were to go down…