Assistance Needed

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 20, 2009 7:34 PM EST Comment 41 comments

I was reading Ron Cook's article in the Post-Gazzete and came across the following passage which has left me stupefied.

Arians admitted the Steelers' pass-run ratio -- 41 pass plays (counting one Roethlisberger scramble) to 17 runs -- wasn't quite what he wanted. He blamed the third-down failures. "We didn't snap it enough. We should have easily been able to convert 50 percent of those third downs. Now, you're talking about maybe another 18 or 20 snaps. Instead of running the ball 18 times for a 4.4 [-yard] average, maybe you run it 28 times for 4.4."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09324/1014930-87.stm#ixzz0XRoNB1QS

Considering two facts:

1. Steelers ran 58 plays
2. On 3rd Down Steelers ran 13 pass/2 run plays.

Will Someone more adept at navigating the murkiness that is Bruce Arians please explain what the..... was he expecting ?

0 recs | Comment 41 comments | Add comment

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Bruce Arians is as smart as a waffle without the syrup

Bring a towel to the game. Black or gold or yellow. If you don't have one buy one, If you can't buy one, dye one!!!

by SoCalSteelerFan on Nov 20, 2009 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That is not very smart

"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 20, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BA is:

1. not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
2. a few beers short of a six pack.
3. a few eggs short of an omelet.
Ill let others add more. :)

by SteelersVT on Nov 21, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not the brightest Crayon in the box

His elevator doesn’t go to the top floor, Sharpest tool in the shed and is a few sheep short of a flock

"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 21, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

from the beginning

Ben has been at his best when throwing less than 40 times. Mendy didnt get near enough touches last week, especially seeing how he excelled late in the game in the previous weeks.

by indianasteelers on Nov 21, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

He's saying...

That if we would have picked up 10 more first downs, we probably would have run the ball more.

I agree with him on this: The Steelers were awful on third down conversions. If we made more of them, he is probably not getting run vs pass questions.

And, the reason we didn’t make the third downs were not BA’s fault. It was execution there, not play calling.

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 8:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Respectfully

BA is an idiot. The lack of 3rd down conversions were largely his fault. His game plan is incoherent. His play calling is inept. Granted Ben missed a couple throws but the play calls on a couple were less than adequate. 17/1 pass run ration on 3rd down?
In addition, calls like a first down bomb to Wallace with over 7 minutes to go were ludicrous. Not only does it set up 2nd/3rd and long but so what if it connected? There were still over 7 minutes to play.
In my world, a competent offensive coordinator doesn’t continually get greedy and go for it all on one play. “Big Splash Plays” is not a game plan MJ66. That particular situation called for a sustained 7 minute drive congruently mixing up the run and the pass, ending with Mendenhall tumbling into the end zone from a couple yards out and less than a minute on the clock.
I am not laying all the blame on Arians. As you stated the execution of the players and Ben in particular were HUGE factors in the Steelers failure to collect a W. But let’s not absolve the idiot savant Bruce Arians for any of the blame in this L and for the ineptitude on 3rd down. The reasons we didn’t make 3rd downs were largely Arians fault. He is the OC. The O belongs to him. They failed miserably in all facets of the game. It’s as if when Ben is off they have no chance.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Nov 21, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed end of story

Respectfully BA is an idiot.

by Steel in FL on Nov 21, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Respectfully

You need to look at the facts

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is getting tired

BA is not the Jeopardy answer to the question: “Who is responsible for all of the Steelers losses?”

You are complaining that we didn’t run enough ON THIRD DOWN? Are you kidding me?

10 of the 17 3rd down plays were for down and distance of five yards or more. Are you seriously saying that BA should have run in those situations? It’s not like we were reeling off five yards on every run play!

Of course when you are 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 17, you need to pass.

Give me a break… stop beating BA up for Ben’s bad game.

Even Ben said it was his fault. He had guys open and missed them. That (and a run-back for six) is why we lost the game, not because BA didn’t call for a running play on 3 and 17!

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For the record

3rd and 1 at CIN 39 – Run
3rd and 13 at CIN 30 (pass – first down)
3rd and 5 at CIN 10 (pass incomplete)
3rd and 14 at PIT 28 (Pass – sack)
3rd and 6 at PIT 36 (pass – incomplete)
3rd and 10 at CIN 36 (pass – first down)
3rd and 8 at CIN 8 (pass – sack)
3rd and 17 at CIN 17 (pass – incomplete)
3rd and 2 at PIT 40 (pass – deflection – interception)
3rd and 5 at PIT 20 (pass – Incomplete)
3rd and 3 at CIN 47 (pass incomplete)
3rd and 1 at CIN 12 (run)
3rd and 15 at CIN 16 (pass – incomplete)
3rd and 3 at PIT 34 (pass – incomplete)
3rd and 10 at PIT 33 (pass – incomplete)

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

are you suggesting it is the inability to complete a pass that is inhibiting the run game?

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 21, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he means that we should have ran for first more often

If you can’t get 4 yards or less there is a problem

"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 21, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

This is simply a list of all of our third down plays last week — in case anyone is actually looking for facts.

I know, I know… i shouldn’t try to confuse the issue with facts like that.

Life is easier if we can just demonize BA and say if he were gone all of our troubles would leave with him…

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Look

When one aspect of a game isn’t working (pass) you need to switch it up to something that is working (run). Horrible, horrible decision on BA’s part to get away from the ONE thing that was working for us in that game. Ben was NOT on his game, but The Rash was…hmmmm…I wonder if we should change the plan to something that’s working for us, or just keep doing the thing that’s not….ummmm….tough one….

Yeesh

"Chris! That's a terrible word! Pussywillows..."
-Lois Griffin

by SteelFever on Nov 21, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rash?

I am assuming when you say “Rash” you are referring to Mendenhall?

Great… he averaged 2.8 yards a carry.

That’s working? Yeah, I guess if you want to run, run, run punt all day, that works just fine.

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Rashard “The Rash” Mendenhall.

I guess pass, pass, pass, punt was better? MeMo was doing well too, I guess I wasn’t clear enough. Bungholes toughened up their pass D with prevent, that means less defenders up towards the line. Can you think of a better time to run?

"Chris! That's a terrible word! Pussywillows..."
-Lois Griffin

by SteelFever on Nov 21, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I repeat

2.8 yards a carry… that is not “getting it done.”

Less than three yards a carry is keeping you behind down and distance.

The Bengals play a stout 4-3 because their corners are able to play press man to man coverage. The running lanes were not there.

“Rash’s” statistics bear that out. Running more would have been just as futile.

What we needed was a few big plays to open things up… get off the bump and go deep so the corners back up a little.

Without execution, you can call whatever you want… you are still going to lose…

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What we needed was a few big plays to open things up… get off the bump and go deep so the corners back up a little.

You mean as opposed to all the screens, and underneath routes that we run?

"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert

by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 21, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or...

Simply hitting the receivers that were open deep — which Ben missed several times (and admitted in his press conference)

It is not all BA’s fault.

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I never said it was all BA’s fault.

It seems that almost all of our passes go deep, or we get sacked. I wish we could mix in some short stuff, to keep defenses guessing.

"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert

by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 22, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rash's stats are not the discussion on the table

When you face a prevent D, that means they take away the big plays down the field. That means they have “coverage” LB’s in the game, and they play 10-15 yards off the ball/line. That means a draw play, with a pump fake before the handoff would yield massive results.

Bottom line is, BA called a bad 4th quarter.

"Chris! That's a terrible word! Pussywillows..."
-Lois Griffin

by SteelFever on Nov 21, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bottom Line

Is Ben missed his receivers. All Day.

Don’t believe me? Ask him… He said so in his press conference.

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

Good OC’s recognize that stuff, and call plays to win games. No, it wasn’t ALL on BA, I’d say 75-25 BA and Ben respectively.

"Chris! That's a terrible word! Pussywillows..."
-Lois Griffin

by SteelFever on Nov 21, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s working? Yeah, I guess if you want to run, run, run punt all day, that works just fine.

NO!

I think the point would be that extremes provide strength only in selected situations and are never sustainable and inevitably introduce weaknesses.

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 21, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My point is...

Complaining that we didn’t run in clear passing down’s is kind of stupid.

If you want to say we should have run more… OK. In general, I think we don’t run enough. But that is as much Ben’s doing as BA’s.

But when you are faced with third and long, you won’t be running it… it’s really that simple…

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Respectfully For The Record

I didn’t call you stupid as you infer to 50 (“complaining that we didn’t run in clear passing downs is kind of stupid”)
It is clear in all my posts that I feel Ben had an inferior game and the Steelers failure to convert 3rd downs hurt their run pass ratio
17/1 is a horrible run pass ratio even on 3rd and medium. At 3/14 on 3rd down you have to admit some different play calls may have been helpful. Plays such as a draw of pitch or shovel to MeMo on many of those 3rd & 6 etc are gettable with the element of surprise that 17/1 brings.
My major complaint with BA has not been his 3rd down play calling (although that and his red zone play calling leave a lot to be desired) but that he only ran 18 times on all downs. That is not enough especially in a close game. He doesn’t scheme or adjust very well.
It’s all good MJ. No one has to be stupid. I don’t think BA or Z are coaches in the mold of Tomlin, LeBeau, Noll, Dungy, Whiz, Grimm and some of the other Steelers coaches 50 respects. I think the Steelers can do better. You’re obviously a big BA fan and I’m sorry that I offended you with my “stupid complaining”.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Nov 21, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not trying to pick a fight

Just saying this game I blame more on execution than play calling.

Now… the FIRST Cincy game, I think I’d agree with you… We were running well and then stopped trying…

This one was different to me.

Sorry about the stupid thing…

by MarkJoel66 on Nov 21, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not because BA didn’t call for a running play on 3 and 17!

Why gripe isn’t that he didn’t call for a run on 3rd and 17. It’s on 1st or 2nd and 10 he didn’t have a safety route he just sent everyone deep.

by Steel in FL on Nov 21, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“Why”
supposed to be “MY”

by Steel in FL on Nov 21, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My gripe..

…is that this gripe is just another gripe in a long list of gripes. How often does shit have to hit the fan before it is evident that your facing the wrong way?

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 21, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not Wallace goin deep that bothers me

it’s the fact that some plays all of the recievers go deep. Lots of times Ben gets blamed for wanting to go for the long ball, but many times there is no underneath reciever at all let alone open.

by SNW on Nov 21, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

When you know the well is dry, you don’t look there for water.

"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert

by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 21, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That sounds like a Tomlinism of the highest order

"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 21, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You send everyone deep...

…when you really want to go deep. That is about confidence in Ben and the offensive line. But last Sunday was one of those exceptions to the rule. The rule being that Ben can make long throws all day if he has open receivers. The way to have open receivers deep is to send a lot of them. The more the better. The consequence is that when Ben is off, it utterly fails. You’ll have that in November. Probably a lot less of it in January.

"We haven't lost any snot!"

by Concomitandt on Nov 22, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course...

the other exception is when the receivers are having difficulty getting separation… But I still think it was just an off Ben day.

"We haven't lost any snot!"

by Concomitandt on Nov 22, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

the reason to “really want to go deep” is that if you manage to make something like 5 long completions in the first quarter, that changes a defense. It can’t not. The defense begins to experience an adrenaline rush of fear in the moment of play action when it cannot yet be determined if another long pass is coming. There is hesitation, backpedaling. and this is the time that the run can be deadly. Then you start getting large chunks of yardage both ways, and a defense has that numbing sense of failure. That’s the way to win. It just didn’t work on one November Sunday. It will work in January…

"We haven't lost any snot!"

by Concomitandt on Nov 22, 2009 9:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

IMO

it is tough to “go deep” when the D is playing cover 2 (which the Bengals did). By sending “everyone deep” you are also stacking the secondary with opponents as all the defenders have “gone deep” too.

In addition, when the O line gives Ben no time (like against the Bengals) no one has a chance to “get deep” A proven way to get receivers open down the field is to commit to the run and run the ball effectively creating a situation where more defenders have to come to the line in anticipation of the run. That opens up the secondary devoid of DBs and safeties.

By the way, not playing stylish football and giving up PR, KR and INT for TD when the defense is not on the field as well as being predictable on offense is 50s sure fire way to lose in January.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Nov 22, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know that we're a "passing" team now

But there needs to be more of a commitment to the running game. Has to be, when you run the ball, good things happen plain and simple.

BTSC Obituaries

OldManSteeler, ominously died two days before Superbowl 123 where the Ravens are set to attempt their 7th superbowl win, facing the Detroit Lions on Sunday. He was 86. His last words are believed to be "MALOR CAN SUCK IT!!!". Like friends and family, we can only guess what this could mean.

by HighSchoolSteeler on Nov 22, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs