Coach Tomlin Giving Team Too Much Input?
Take a listen to this Troy Polamalu interview from several weeks ago on 790 The Zone in Atlanta. Polamalu talks about several interesting topics including how much he ad libs out there compared to simply doing what Dick LeBeau has drawn up for him.
Later in the interview though, Polamalu touched on what it's like to play for Coach Mike Tomlin. You can clearly hear the respect he has for Tomlin and the enjoyment he gets playing for him and the Steelers. But he also let this little nugget slip out that I found very, very interesting in light of all the little mistakes the team has made this year.
He said:
"Coach Tomlin is, if not the greatest, one of the greatest coaches I've ever played for. And what's awesome about it is he continues to adjust to us. You know, the first year he came in it was really tough for us. He was very hard-nosed, he would never give in. But he's starting to give in to us more and more and more. And the way that he is adjusting and letting us get away with more and more, and listening more and more to our input. It's really amazing for a coach to be able to do that, you know, and it's working for us."
Hmm. Hard to know exactly what Polamalu means by some of those comments, but I'm guessing that some of the slack that Tomlin has given his team this year will be disappearing in the immediate future, as well as in the forthcoming years. Thoughts?
about 2 years ago
Michael Bean
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I do not think that is the case
I think there are a lot players who think Ben can win the game by himself. I feel the same with Defense because we have talent but I do not see any effort.
by steeler_in_maryland on Nov 23, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions
It's such a fine line
between winning and losing. I feel like last year, if the Baltimore defensive back doesn’t slip when Ben throws a desparate pass to Santonio as Ben is in the grasp of the Baltimore defender or if refs don’t rule that Santonio made crossed the goal line again against Baltimore, or, if Romo doesn’t throw that pick, we don’t win those games. I think winning the super bowl takes a lot skill and a lot of random luck.
I think we were lucky that the ball that Favre threw went through the fullbacks hands, just as KC is lucky it slipped through Miller’s hands. We were unlucky that Reed missed field goals in Chicago, but lucky that Tennesse’s kicker missed against us.
I guess aside from the special teams, the margin of error for about 6 games so far this year is random.
We are doing a lot of second guessing that with a few random lucky plays on our side we could be easily be undefeated. We could also have lost at least 2 more games.
by DMSF on Nov 23, 2009 6:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Very true
That’s why I think they really need to lock down on special teams and stop the bleeding. That’s one thing….the other thing is….somehow if/when a turnover occurs, the men need to go all hell out to stop people from going the other way. You see it when the steelers get an INT and the whole team blocks. Well, they need to go 300% to stop that guy from getting too far down the field. How you coach that? I dunno!!! But that is what I would like to see happen.
If those two things get reversed…..then this team starts to win games by 14 points very very often.
His first year, he worked them too hard...and they died in the stretch...
He also got rid of those who wouldn’t get with the program (see Faneca, Alan).
He established he was the boss. And he still is. But a good boss knows his key employees….and he has excellent two-way communication with them.
That’s why Kiesel (or was it Smith?) said that if any player bad-mouthed LeBeau or any member of the coaching staff, it would be taken care of in the locker room.
Tomlin listens to Ward, Smith, Farrior, Polamalu, and the other team leaders. That’s good policy.
I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson
That's why he got rid of Faneca, Alan?
They didn’t want to pay him a boatload of money……that’s why they didn’t resign him. Not because he wouldn’t get with the program. The next year….with the Jets…..(Fanaca, Alan…..see Bowl, Pro}.
by baabaablacksheep on Nov 24, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Time for Tomlin to crack the whip, reign in Big Ben & Arians
Blitz, I think it is time for Tomlin to reign in the team just a bit, particularly Ben and some of the playcalling on O.
As far as special teams, I don’t know what more he can do, except sprinkling one or two more starters in there. Anyttime you trot out LBs K. Fox, A. Frazier, D. Woods, P. Bailey, and L. Timmons, returns shouldn’t be going for 7. I think it’s at the point now where it is a Limas Sweed thing, meaning it is in everyone’s head on the kickoff team. No one is staying in there lanes, sprinting to be the first down the field or getting off tackles. However, one thing I would do if I’m Tomlin is replace S. Logan with Ryan Clark on kickoffs (tired of seeing no. 11 not hit anyone and then be in the chase picture). Besides, Clark volunteered for it.
I still wish this was a run team first, but that hay is pretty much in the barn until next year. The only thing he can do now is call more runs to at least attempt to be balanced on offense. And also, get rid of that DAMN Empty Backfield set — PLEASE!!!!!!! You are just inviting Ben to get another concussion.
I listen to the T. Ilkin/C. Wolfley radio show from time to time and they have former Steelers center Jeff Hartings on there on Mondays. One of the things Hartings talks about frequently is how the 2004 team (when Roethlisberger went 15-1 and no. 1 running game in the NFL) could run the ball in almost any situation because that was what they practiced and perfected since training camp. It was no problem going to the run in the 2nd half of games and finishing them out because that was their focus starting in training camp.
The result of being a passing team, especially one where the QB holds on to the ball too long a lot of the time and often gets greedy going for chunks instead of what the D gives sometimes, is your OL is dropping back more than going fwd and become less physical and efficient in the run game. And with Ben’s proclivity to want to always make a play, you have the sacks and turnovers.
With our specials teams and passing O right now, even before the ball is kicked off, we are already giving the other team 7 points to start the game (what they’ll get on a return) at least two turnovers and 4 sacks - BEFORE the game even starts.
I do think we need an upgrade in talent in the secondary, particularly speed and hands. I also wonder if not having 6 DL to rotate on the DL (S. Harris isn’t getting a hat and they are only going with 5 since Kirschke went down) is affecting our DL pass rush late in games. I also think not having a regular sub for Keisel is going to grind him down as the season goes on.
Even though Ben threw for almost 400 yards, I kept hoping that Arians would call more running plays instead of dropping back all of the time. You could just feel something bad was about to happen. The coaches need to decide to save Ben from himself sometime because he can’t do it himself.
Practice counts of course, but it certainly helps to have the best pulling guard in the league, a dominating and ultra smart center, and a HoF power back.
That being said, this team simply has to commit itself to the run more. Kemo and Colon have come along, Mendy looks like the real deal, and teams are frightened of our pass game. Time to utlize that fear to open up the run.
The choice everyone wants to push is that we have to either choose to be a passing team or a running team. This, however, is a false delemma. Given the talent we have we can be both. We simply have to take both seriously in our play calling.
by BluegrassSteeler on Nov 23, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
It’ll be awful hard to pay our receivers and Ben, upgrade the line and keep our defense elite.
Special teams is about hunger and desire, and this team doesn’t have enough of it. There is less fight in this team than there was last year. Look at Ben on big drives, he doesn’t look confident. Look at our 3rd and short numbers, we can’t pick up a yard running the ball.
Last year the whole team was fighting tooth and nail for every blade of grass, we aren’t this year. It’s why people don’t repeat. I think we will need to start a new Super Bowl window, get some of the youth developed and into positions of leadership. I wouldn’t be shocked if this team turned it around and won two more Super Bowls before they break up, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we went downhill from here, both are very possible.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 23, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well, not being able to pick up a yard running the ball sounds a lot like last year at least
by BluegrassSteeler on Nov 24, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
tell me this then..
the teams are are the best in the league, ARE NOT RUN FIRST! Carolina, jets, titans, miami…look at their records! Is this a coincidence?
Usually I get annoyed with your drama...
But I gotta agree with this. Think of the top teams: NO, NE, Ind, and even Minn, and the first thing that comes to mind is a devastating passing attack.
Yeah, but they have QB's who are protecting the ball and don't take sacks
We don’t have that. I think running the ball saves Ben and Arians from themselves a little bit. I also think we need to try and possess the ball a little more because this D isn’t like the one from this past year. That’s just my opinion.
by datruth4life on Nov 24, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
As i recall it was the passing game that won
nearly all of Ben’s playoff wins.
by steelerstyle on Nov 23, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
Saints = 3rd most rush attempts in league
Bengals = 5th most
Vikings = 7th most
Patriots = 9th most
Saints and Bengals have more runs than passes. I know it’s shocking with the Saints, but they are a running team now, and they are better than they were last year because of it.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 23, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
But are they run first?
I think they can run late to close out games. The teams that nyc was pointing to are run first, run last. The teams you’re pointing to are balanced and can beat you through the air if you shut down the run.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 24, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
And the question is.....
…..why aren’t we balanced?
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 24, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Bruce Arians? Maybe Ben's input as well
I so hoped that we would hire Cam Cameron after the Dolphins fired him. I think that Ben, like Brett Favre, needs a strong OC to guide him to make the safe decisions more often.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 24, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
If you run more than you pass, you are run first. A team that can’t beat you through the air if you shut down the run is called one-dimensional. Another word for one-dimensional is bad.
If we are saying that one-dimensional teams are bad, then I’m not going to disagree.
If you set up the pass with the run, you are a run first team. That would involve Minnesotta and Cincinatti. If you can take an early lead with a balanced attack and then run the ball down the other teams throat for the rest of the game, while averaging over 4 yards a carry? Still a run first team in my book.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 24, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Semantics then
To me a run first team actually runs first and throws if they have to. A balanced team that establishes a lead by passing then runs it down your throat (or at least incorporates the run into a ball control second half offense) is more like the 49ers of the 80s. I guess it’s all perspective.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Nov 24, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
The 49ers ran the ball and passed at a pretty balanced clip, but I would call them a pass first offense because even their running backs were receivers over runners, at least Rathman and Craig. It is a hard call though, some years they were pretty well rounded. You can be pass first with ball control and run a lot, it just means you are really good.
I follow your point about run first, but do you make the same distinction for a pass first offense? If so where do we put the bulk of NFL offenses? The Steelers are a team that attempts to be balanced, but you can’t run on 50% of your plays when the runs are either 1 or 2 yards or a big chunk. You get no consistency out of your drives that way. We aren’t a pass first team by design, we just don’t set up our running game with our running game. We used to do that, 3 or 4 yards on first and second down reliably lead to a heavy number of runs. We have a higher average now, but our consistency is very low.
I guess the biggest factor for me on whether a team is run or pass oriented is how many times they use play action or draws and delayed runs. That tells you a lot about the mindset of the team, and how the defense views them.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 24, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
The Steelers are a team that attempts to be balanced,
Sorry but I disagree, it is an unreasonable claim if the commitment to one is substantially less than to the other, we are a team that runs just enough to keep up appearances.
but you can’t run on 50% of your plays when the runs are either 1 or 2 yards or a big chunk. You get no consistency out of your drives that way
Sorry again but the 1 or 2 yard gains are partially the result of sporadic attempts to run the ball and even so should not be a deterrent to continuing to do so, otherwise you end up with what we had last year.
We aren’t a pass first team by design,
Yes we are, insomuch as it can be referred to as a design(intent is probably a more suitable word). Outside of the Charger game we’ve shown a commitment to run in two halves, the second half of the Broncos game and the first half of the KC game. These bursts of commitment usually occurs after a debacle of some sort.
In the 3rd Q of the KC game Arians and called what for him is a typical drive 9 pass plays/ 2 run even though we at that point we still had the lead. This is what he wants to do, the running game to him is just the backdrop(for contrast) to his aerial magic show, it’s not meant to be considered a part of the main act.
And as for the 49er reference, you’re correct but not only were the RB’s as good running as receiving, they were physical runners because the 49ers knew they had to be able to control the line of scrimmage with the run game even if the yards gained weren’t the reason they won the game and they were committed to running the ball.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 25, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
First 5 games of the season on first downs we ran the ball on 76 of 144 first downs. That’s 54% running plays. This team did not start the season trying to be pass first.
I don’t have all the data for the season, as this is just part of a little project I’m working on, but during that time Ben was on fire on first downs, going:
49/65 75.4% 604 (9.3) 4TD 1INT 3sacks
Meanwhile the running game produced:
76 for 280yards (3.68) 4Td
Now look at the second Cincinnati game, where we ran 18 times and threw the ball 40.
In the first half we ran the ball on 6 first downs while we threw the ball 11 times. Four of those throws were on a drive with under 2 minutes left in the half. So before the 2 min. drill hit we ran 6 times to throwing it 7.
Rushing 6 for 23 yards (3.83), passing 8/10 72 yards (7.2) 1 sack (-9) (5.73)
That is a good balance in average, but we had 0 runs between 4 and 8 yards. What that means is we picked up first downs or were in second and long. Same in the passing game, first downs or incompletions, we had very few second down runs. The second half we got even more away from the pass, largely because we continued to get into 2nd and long or pick up the first on first down, and we tried the no huddle a few times (we don’t run much while Ben calls the plays.)
The point is this team has made continued effort to be a balanced team, we run on second and 1-7, and first downs right around 50% of the time (if the numbers continue through the 4 games I haven’t done yet).
The problem is we end up in 2nd and long and third and long a lot. Third and short, by the way, we are terrible at picking up on the ground, but even if they just pound the ball on those plays no matter how many times they fail it still won’t make much difference in the total run/pass ratio, we aren’t in third and short that much.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 25, 2009 4:06 AM EST up reply actions
Superficial Observation
Vikes (52/48) & NO(50/50) both have pass/ rush balance and as for your examples, the Jets and the Panthers both have QB’s who turn the ball over and neither generates a pass rush as for the Dolphins and Titans they both win when they generate a pass rush.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 24, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention that the 2005 Steelers and all those teams with Bettis had absurdly high run/pass ratios.
The teams brought up are bad teams, and they are one-dimensional.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 24, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Delhomme, Sanchez (rookie), Young, Henne (first year starting)
it’s not their run first mentality that has them losing…….those teams don’t have a choice BUT to run first……compaired to Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre……The Steelers should be doing BOTH ala Favre/Peterson…….Roethlisberger/Mendenhall…..
by baabaablacksheep on Nov 24, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
In the case of the Dolphins, they could be as good as the late 90’s Steelers if they had a good defense, they move the ball and score.
by Phantaskippy on Nov 24, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Coach Tomlin Giving Team Too Much Input?
As I recall, when Polamalu gave that interview, in was in the context of Tomlin giving starters days off for rest, something he did not do the first year. Troy also referred to the fact that the coaches are listening more to the players on play selections, schemes, etc. Roethlisberger nows calls about 40% of his own plays. Troy has more liberty to improvise on defense.
I wouldn’t read anything into this.
actually
THe first part of that interview is about how Troy rarely improvises.
But I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I would say though that just because they’re champions doesn’t mean they always have the best judgment about routine, play selection, etc.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on Nov 23, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
I think this could be the case. The thing I love about Tomlin is that he is always learning. If he is giving them too much room, he will definitely reign them in. I think getting healthy would help just as much though!
Erik
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