Behind the Steel Curtain: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

If this is a dumb question...

... please be kind.  I am new to this whole football fandom thing - I managed to successfully avoid being any interest whatsoever for many years, but after moving to Pittsburgh it was of course inevitable that I would be sucked into Steeler Nation, and I'm now a proud citizen.  My question is this - in the Ravens/Broncos game last Sunday Ray Rice ran a ball to the end zone.  He fell short  but shoved his hand with the ball into the endzone  As he fell the ball was knocked out of his hand and rolled away.  In a recent Steelers game (forgive my failing memory, but I think it was the Vikings game) Hines caught a ball in the end zone, fell, rolled over several times, and lost the ball for a moment about the time he rolled out of bounds.  I remember the discussion at the time, and how you must maintain control of the ball, etc. etc., and the conclusion was that this was a proper call, given the rules, although it was generally thought to be a dumb rule.  I presume that the difference is that Rice ran it in, and Hines caught it.  But this makes no sense to me.  if you have to maintain possession of the ball, why should that make any difference?  Enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.


0 recs  |  Comment 51 comments  |  Add comment

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

That's a great question.

I wish the NFL would explain to me how Hines’ play was not a TD. F the rulebook, that doesn’t explain a thing.

THAT WAS A TOUCHDOWN AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Possession is 9/10s of the TD.

Rice had indisputable possession of the rock when it crossed the plane of the goal line, at that instant, the play is over, whether or not he lost it. Hines did not, in fact, have clear possession of the ball before he rolled out of bounds. Therefore, he was not in possession of the ball in the end zone. Result: incomplete pass.

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

um, Touchdown

Not trying to argue with you, that was just a touchdown and everyone knows it, rulebook or not. The guys on NFL Network agreed.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fine

Don’t really care. We won, whether it was a TD or not. Your dick is bigger than mine, there.

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, you can't be serious, can you??

I’m sorry for ruining your week, fever. I definetly didn’t mean to cause that.

I just haven’t heard anyone yet (besides you) that doesn’t KNOW that was a TD. The NFL rulebook is a joke that needs to be fixed. Obvious Touchdown, I mean, how many times did he roll over?? What do you have to get like 15 feet down now or something??

Sorry for stripping you of your pride there, buddy. Have you been spying on me??

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty sure what he meant to say is that its stupid to argue with a brick wall. A brick wall is what you turn into wheen you start your argument like this:

Not trying to argue with you, that was just a touchdown and everyone knows it, rulebook or not. The guys on NFL Network agreed.

Possession of a catch needs to be maintained through the catch and fall. You can disagree with it, but you’d be wrong. The refs have been consistent with that the last 2 years, since the emphasis was added. If you don’t like it, petition the NFL. I’m sure they’ll listen to your sensible, logical reasoning. I can’t see why they wouldn’t.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Nov 3, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You didn't ruin anything.

Nothing anyone says on the intrawebs could ever influence my moods. Sorry to disappoint.

The NFL rulebook is a joke that needs to be fixed.

It IS in the rule book. Therefore, the correct call in accordance with the rules. Crying and arguing about it isn’t going to change the fact. Sure it sucks, but, per the rules, it was not a TD.

As to the “Your dick is bigger than mine” comment, that is my way of saying I don’t wanna argue about it anymore, and seeing as how alot of people “fight” on blog sites to make up for lack of size in the tallywhacker department, appeasement of such a colossal ego is required to make some people go away. If you are not such a person, my sincere apologies.

I now leave you to whatever it is you are doing. Good day sir.

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh shit my dick just shrank 2 sizes. You’re like the Grinch, but for weiners.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Nov 3, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I'm shocked by this (how old are we?)

Good lord, guys. Do we really have to argue about this?? Obviously, this was not a touchdown. Obviously. That was the call. I still don’t agree. I certainly fail to see how my disagreeing with a call in an NFL game makes me a person with a “colossal ego”. Wow. I would think that a person who would even think of typing that post IS THE ONE WHO IS ARGUING. Great job. You are an american hero. Great job. (Standing ovation)

Wahoo, I can disagree with anything I want and there’s not a MF’ing thing you can do about it. You’ve never disagreed with a call before?? That’s what I thought. It’s perfectly natural. Get a grip, dumbass. Do you honestly believe that no one is ever going to disagree with a call?? WAKE UP MORON.

Fever, I knew what you meant by the dick remark. I thought it was funny and made a funny response. I am so sorry for trying to be funny. I also know that that rule IS in the rulebook. That is why I said the book is a joke that needs to be fixed. Get it yet??

I’d like to go ahead and apologize to all of the old people on this site who just come on to argue with people and tell them they are wrong or stupid.

I’m sorry for having an opinion. Better yet, who the hell am I to have an opinion that is different from yours??

I’ve definetly learned my lesson. I will not speakout of turn again, oh great Gods of football knowledge.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Same exact thing as the Troy pick in the 06 playoff game at Indy

I don’t give a care in the world what the rulebook says, that was an interception, and the whole world knows it.

The Tom Brady FUMBLE that was saved by the rulebook was crap. That was a fumble, and the whole world knows it.

There are too many to list here, and the whole world knows it.

Can we stop arguing now?? Please??

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

meant the tuck rule play vs. Oakland

sorry, should’ve said that on Brady’s play

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
Same exact thing as the Troy pick in the 06 playoff game at Indy

They admited that call was incorrect

by Steel in FL on Nov 3, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We recieved an apology from the league on that play after the fact.

We recieved an apology for the holding on Larry Foote on the Garrard run in the playoffs 2 years ago as well.

We did not recieve an apology on the Ward TD, because the rulebook is clear on what does or does not constitute a catch. Stupid rule? Not if it was the other team. When it’s us…. I’m just saying.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Nov 4, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

WOW!

A little touchy, aren’t we?

If you are not such a person, my sincere apologies.

I appreciate the fact you have opinions, but guess what? That rule in question is not an opinion. It is fact. I don’t like it either, but bitching about it and attacking another fan about it won’t change it.

What’s with your attitude lately? Didn’t I see you on another post rip into Johnny_S for having his own opinions about things? Granted, his opinions were different than your own…hmmm…where have I heard this before…oh yeah! From you!

I’m sorry for having an opinion. Better yet, who the hell am I to have an opinion that is different from yours??

Way to stay consistent with your hypocrisy, SSitS…

Yeesh…

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry again for being such a bad person

I wish I were better, I’m trying. LMFAO

I didn’t say the rule was an opinion, I said my opinion was. Thanks though.

I wasn’t bitching about it or attacking another fan. I told you at the beginning of my post that I wasn’t trying to argue with you. You kept it going. Not me. Unfortunately, you still are. Wonder why??

I didn’t rip into Johnny S yesterday, I asked him to ease up a bit, because I thought he was doing pretty much what you are doing now. It wasn’t about his opinions at all, maybe you should try and read the posts before accusing blindly. I may have taken what he was saying the wrong way, what does that have to do with you, I forget?? We talked it out like adults and both apologized. We have moved on. Will you?? I guess we’ll see, huh??

You can call me a hypocrite all you want, man. Whatever you need to help yourself feel better, LMFAO again. I don’t understand where it all comes from (the Yahoo.com-like posts), but I guess if that’s what you’re all about, good luck.

Again, let me be the bigger person and apologize for the SIXTH time to you now.

Can we move on yet, I’m bored with this?? You can say all you want about me, call me whatever you want, it’s been done before, only better than this.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hehe

You say “I apologize”, then turn around and insult me. Wow. Good job kid (golf clap). Just making friends left and right, aren’t you? Oh well,it wouldn’t be the internet if we could only talk to those people of like minds and intelligence, hey what? Don’t worry, that wasn’t an insult…or, wait…I apologize…dammit! Now I’m all confused…thanks.

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am sorry Steelfever.

No more arguments or insults from me. I didn’t intend that last post to insult you, just point out how ridiculous this all is. I have no problem with you or anyone on here, and I’m sorry I offended you. It won’t happen again.

I am truly sorry, and hope that we can move on. I really don’t appreciate the way you worded that last post, insinuating that I’m not as intelligent as you, or whatever. We can compare degrees all day long, and get nowhere. I just don’t get how if someone doesn’t agree with a call or opinion, how that person is an idiot, or less deserving of anything. It’s just an opinion, no more, no less. I have no idea how this got blown up like this, I’m shocked. I just didn’t agree with a call, something we have all done many times. I thought, and still think, it was a touchdown. Rulebook or not. He had possession long enough, with enough parts of his body touching the endzone, to be a touchdown, IMO. Unfortunately, this wasn’t the call. Oh well, nothing we can do about it.

I appreciate your opinions, I’ve read much of your stuff and it’s usually good. I am sorry again for this situation.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 3, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

About time J/K

Yeah, maybe I over reacted a bit. I said I hated the call/rule. Shoulda just left it at that. Oh well, bygones and all that, yeah?

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Same here

I should’ve left it alone too, sorry again.

by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Nov 4, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Look

I am a BTSC celebrity. Being mentioned in threads I’m not even participating in. I will be signing autographs tomorrow, 10$ each.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 3, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

will you sign my baby?

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Nov 3, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I only sign babies on their foreheads.

I’ll sign your dog if you have spray paint.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 3, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the weirdest thread ever

and I missed it!

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 7:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just trying to cut the tension in the room. But if you have a baby…bring him/her over, I’ll sign him/her.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 4, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Santonio asks you to sign his baby....

Don’t do it. It’s a trap. That is most certainly not a baby.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Nov 4, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I am glad I wasn't here

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Browns game

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 3, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Browns are lame

Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89

by wg1of5 on Nov 3, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And who should we blame?

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Nov 3, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Their offensive line we will maim

"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.

by kick him in the head on Nov 3, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No I was saying that was the game with the Hines Ward TD reversal

but since you all decided to wave…I will do the same

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 7:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Getting back to the question at hand

I’ll try to decipher the rules in an attempt to answer your question.

Example 1: If a person who has already established possession of the ball breaks the plane of the goal line then it is a touchdown. So, since Rice had clear possession of the ball before crossing the plane of the goal line, it was correctly ruled a touchdown.

Example 2: If a player catches the ball in the end zone and falls to the ground, he must maintain possession of the ball for the entirety of the play. Meaning if at any time while rolling around on the ground it comes loose or hits the ground it is considered an incomplete pass. Ward apparently made the catch, but since he rolled several times and then lost control of the football it was correctly ruled an incomplete pass based on the current rules of the NFL.

I hope that answers your question momma. Welcome to the site and to Steeler Nation. Enjoy.

by King Coebra on Nov 3, 2009 5:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

1 more thing

The rule is confusing. It’s a very legitimate question.

by King Coebra on Nov 3, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

for bringing the thread back to the actual question. And for your helpful answer.

by momma rollett on Nov 3, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They should count rolls like foot steps

Take two steps and that is a football move and a catch, roll with clear possesion twice and that should be a football move and a catch but until they change the rules it wasn’t a catch because he was still moving when he lost possesion, stupid, yes, sucks, yes, correct call, yes. If it weren’t for IR though, apparently you can lose possesion less than 5 feet away from an official staring at you and still have a touchdown. Hard to believe that even had to be reviewed(Falcons/Saints)

by DarinS on Nov 3, 2009 6:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Posters citing possesion must be maintained

Are correct with a running play as soon as the ball breaks the plane play is over. Now the Ward catch 2 things i want to point out.

!. it was something of a freak incident you can’t possible have sub definitions for every rule for every conceivable variation that might fall under said rule. The NFL can not start making exceptions unless the receiver has rolled 2 times already because then they have to start making other exceptions. Like the force out rule to vague before it was needed to make it simply 1 foot or 2 feet regardless.

2. Several posters cited Troys interception as an example and IMO it doesn’t apply. As cited the NFL did after the fact say that it was the wrong call should have been interception and then fumble. The other difference was Troy lost control of the ball while getting up from the ground he had maintained control through the entire catch and fall to the ground thus it was an interception he then fumbled the ball in the continuing action after.

by thefirst3peat on Nov 4, 2009 3:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your exclamation point. Calls need to be made immediately, and you can’t have the refs digging through a field guide to all possible exceptions. Make the rule clear cut and absolute. Here, by saying you have to maintain possession through the fall and landing, they are creating a case where sometimes unfair examples can be found, but consistency across all calls is possible.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Nov 4, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to the Nation, momma rollett

And Pittsburgh too. Great to have you with us.

by pghnorthside on Nov 4, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to Behind the Steel Curtain momma rollet.

Since your question has been answered, I would like to apologize to you, for our lack of manners to you, a first time poster here.

Again, welcome.

"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert

by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 4, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There's no stupid questions in Steeler Nation...

Except for “How much do you think the Browns will win by this week?” I’d avoid that one.

'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin

by NYSteelersFan4 on Nov 4, 2009 2:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Since I was actually at the Brown's game...

… last December and saw the pathetic excuse for a game they brought us, I already know better than to ask that question!

by momma rollett on Nov 4, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then you're all set...

As a new member to Steeler Nation and BTSC, that’s all the backround you need. Welcome and enjoy the site.

'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin

by NYSteelersFan4 on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oops -

Browns game, not Brown’s game. And I’m a grammar policeperson, too.

by momma rollett on Nov 4, 2009 11:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

In that case you can make your monthly ticket quota here in about 90 minutes. :)

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people. (mattyc_77 on twitter)

by BostonWahoo on Nov 5, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs


User Tools

Welcome to BTSC, a blog dedicated to the SIX-time world champion Steelers.

"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."

Art Rooney Jr.

"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Start posting about the Steelers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
What players have you most wished could have been Steelers?
2196876391_dcb0380cb0_small
Okay. We need some fun!
Me_small
The BTSC Predict the Score Competition, Wk 11 @ KC Chiefs
J_page_small
Talk Chiefs with AP
Miketomlin-200_small
A look to 2005 and back to the present

Recent FanPosts

Small
Assistance Needed
Small
2010 NFL Mock Draft : Updated 11/20
Markstadiumoutside_small
Stephen Logan needs to go
Franco72_small
Keisel The Diesel
Scr_logo_v5_small
STEEL CURTAIN RADIO #47: ARE THE CHIEFS SLUMP BUSTERS?
Small
Steelers vs. Cowboys
Sidney_steelers_small
Gatewood added to practice squad
Small
Timmons and the linebackers disappointment?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Gang Green Nation
Another Patriot Running his Mouth (surprise)-- Moss on Revis
Gang Green Nation
How to Beat the Cheats-- Sunday Preview
Pride Of Detroit
Week 11 Injury Report

SPONSORS


Site Founder & Editor

Mbean_small Blitzburgh

Steelers Historian

Steeler_small maryrose

Bringing You Your Daily Six Pack

Plainview_small drinkyourmilkshake