Anthony Madison???

by Homer J. on Nov 3, 2009 8:05 PM EST Comment 66 comments

The biggest regression this season has been kickoff coverage, and Stefan Logan hasn't exactly been the best gunner we've ever seen. The Cleveland Browns have just waived Anthony Madison, who was a real special teams ace last season.

Tomlin said he will fix the kickoff coverage unit, even if it means changing personnel.

Madison is available. I'm wondering what the chances are that he'll end up in the Black and Gold. And, I'm wondering whether Tomlin is considering whether he needs and can afford Logan as a return man who doesn't get the job done on coverage teams.

I'm not saying it's time to jettison the joystick, but I'm throwing this question out there:

Kickoff coverage is awful. Someone is out there who has shown he can do the job that is NOT being done now. Should the Steelers pick up Madison, and, if so, who goes?

Discuss.

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Dump Ty Carter or Ratliff

and pick up Madison again. I heard he used to be a DB for us, or something…

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 8:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

Ratliff is dead weight. Lose him asap and bring back Madison. I’m still having nightmares of Percy Harvin and Skippy’s matador impersonation. Also, let Lewis and Burnett get some playing time.

by VinniePie on Nov 3, 2009 9:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Not a bad call,

if we were happy with the progression of Lewis and Burnett. But like you say, we haven’t seen much of them. Has Lewis hit the field at all yet in regular season? Anyone know where the coaches are at on Lewis’ ability to see the field?

But since we’re seeing Ratliff and not Lewis nor Burnett getting snaps in the secondary, I imagine the rooks aren’t ready.

Even while special teams is choking, I’m more concerned about the strength of the secondary, which seems to require Ratliff’s services. Here’s hoping the rooks get it together soon.

by betelgeuse on Nov 3, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I seriously can’t imagine Burnett or Lewis getting tooled MORE than Ratliff does in coverage. At least if it was one of them, it could be a learning experience for them. At this point Ratliff is what he is, and that ain’t a good DB.

by BluegrassSteeler on Nov 4, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bring him back, but how soon before he makes another ill advised prediction?

by SteelersVT on Nov 3, 2009 10:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thought that was Anthony Smith....

You are talking about the Pats prediction, yes?

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 3, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

got my anthonys messed up

Did this anthony do anything to get jettisoned?

by SteelersVT on Nov 4, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He played some sickeningly soft DB during the pre-season....

…and missed a game due to the death of his father in August.

Madison looked very weak at DB, played a cushion that was too big for his reaction time, and finally got caught in a numbers game at cutdown time. He had become exclusively a special teams guy, and CT thought we could replace him on the coverage teams and didn’t have room on the roster for him. Two kickoff return touchdowns may have caused Coach to rethink our need for a real gunner on coverage teams.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Nov 4, 2009 4:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

From what I’ve seen and read, the coaches aren’t happy enough with Burnett yet, see him as too much of a liability in coverage. The kids a ball hawk, but needs to work on his coverage. Lewis looks to be a solid prospect at DB. But certainly, I’d love to see Ratliff cut, bring in Madison and let Lewis play the Nickel

by mojo88 on Nov 3, 2009 11:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ratliff

makes me queesy

Ron Paul was Right.

by Steelchamps !! on Nov 4, 2009 1:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pick up a player you cut and drop a player you kept?

Nonsense. Carter is ok..he’s just not Troy. Give the man a break he’s started plenty of games and gotten wins in Super Bowl Seasons. Gee whiz.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 7:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

We've already done that with Redzone Redman....

And one of the million things I love about Tomlin is that he’s supremely comfortable in his own skin — and not at all afraid to change course, even if it means admitting he made a mistake. It appears he did make one, in thinking that Logan could replace Madison on the coverage teams.

Like all of us, he saw the huge possible upside in Logan as a kick returner and figured his speed and elusiveness would help in kick coverage. Well, Logan HAS been a very good kickoff return man, an average punt returner at best, and a disappointment on coverage teams.

My feeling is either Ratliff or Logan should go, and Madison should be back on ST’s. The hole in the coverage team has already cost two TD’s. It must be fixed immediately, and Tomlin said as much right after the Vikings’ game.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Nov 4, 2009 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would be ok with either of them

but not Carter.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well....I'm still not quite ready to give up on Logan

so I would lean more toward Ratliff. Let me tell you this however, there is no clear cut answer to this question. One could argue for Logan, Ratliff or Madison and have legitimate points. Some carry more weight than others but we aren’t talking about 30+ plays a game players.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I haven’t seen anything that has showed me Logan has been bad in ST coverage. I have seen a lot that says Ratliff is terrible in ST coverage.

If we picked up Madison I think it would be dump to cut Logan. Who returns kicks then? Not Wallace, he is too valuable right now to get injured on a return.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 4, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that's why I would lean toward Ratliff

One could make the argument that Ratliff is needed to keep the numbers stable at DB. The question would then be is he that much better than Madison at DB to warrant overlooking his special teams play or is Madison that much of an improvement on ST that you can overlook Ratliff’s advantage in DB abilities? In this alone there are many on both sides of the fence. There may even be some that think Madison isn’t that much of a step-down from Ratliff if any and DB. Without Clark in there it may factor in this week. Lots of questions….I’m glad I don’t have to have the answer.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, exactly what I was thinking

I just don’t want us to keep surrendering 7 on ST every game. Especially, since we seem to be giving it up exactly when the other team needs it most. I am sure Tomlin has his eye on the news and is looking into it. He always seems to make the right decision.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 4, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's all relative...IMO

How influential is the player relative to his primary position? Ratliff is better than Madison at DB, correct. Madison is better than Ratliff on ST, correct. We should analyze this one step further. How much influence does said player have where he performs better.

Ratliff being a better DB: I’m not educated on packages, etc, but some of you are. I’ve seen him out there plenty, but how often is he actually used? Which packages? If we replace him with Madison in those situations, exactly how much of a drop-off is it? How much risk is induced? How apt to giving up the big play is Madison at DB?

Madison being better on ST: We’ve seen Ratliff’s performance thus far. ST has been a pretty glaring weakness of late. That is no doubt extremely impactful…as we witnessed Harvin take one to the house. Not saying that’s all on Ratliff though. Does that happen with Madison in there? Do these constant good returns continue to hapen with Madison in there? There’s always a risk of a run being broken-off I guess, but the opposing team’s consistency in good returns would surely change in the negative direction.

Considering how good our defense is all-around, I think the drop-off from Ratliff to Madison can be covered up much easier than the weak-link on ST. Having great special teams, ie winning the field position battle, combined with our defense (as we all salivated about during pre-season) could be outright unfair to the rest of the league…considering our offensive capabilities as well.

Also considering the potential down-side, I believe it’s less risky bringing back Madison and canning Ratliff as opposed to the other way around. Again I’m not blaming all the ST woes on Ratliff, but seeing us kick high & short and giving up field position makes me sick….so I naturally look to the weak link.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

That's a fair assessment basically

Adds the the “I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision” statement huh? By the way, I’m eating pizza right now.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Domino's Pizza?

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

LOL

No…Anthony’s Pizza. It’s not that good. That guy in the middle looks like a proctologist.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

An overly aggressive proctologist...

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

And they wonder why Andy is so bad...

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

This exchange should be green.

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 4, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is...

Not one single tree was harmed in it’s making.

'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin

by NYSteelersFan4 on Nov 4, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Well played, sir well played

"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature. The two children of these spawned and fused in a tantric love session to create Troy Polamalu. The mother however died as he tore through the birth canal with a spin move."
Mechem on the roots of Troy Polamalu

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 4, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHAHA!

" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.

by Johnny_S on Nov 4, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You overlooked...

….one important fact in your rational. Anthony Madison was the low man on the totem pole erected in that sewer pit presently called the Cleveland Browns.

Nobody in that secondary is tackling well or providing good coverage and he apparently was the least valued of the lot. I would assume anyone who didn’t suck big time(by their standards) should be safe their jobs safe in Cleveland.

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 4, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I did think about that...

But considering how awful the personnel decisions are in Cleveland, it makes sense that they’d get rid of him.

A team that has made no forward strides in 10 years really doesn’t know what the hell they are doing.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I apologise for suggesting....

…..the Browns have standards.

by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Nov 4, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How dare you! But seriously, the Steelers are leagues ahead of the Browns in finding roles for players. I also think playing for a perennially competitive team provides motivation in itself. Playing for the Browns, well, works in the opposite direction.

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And don't forget

He was learning new s**t in Cleveland which no doubt puts him behind the others to begin with. That was not the case with the Steelers since, of course, he has already spent some time with the club.

The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games

by chewiesteeler on Nov 4, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And it was certainly s**t

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brown s**t

GET IT? Damn, I abuse myself!

The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games

by chewiesteeler on Nov 4, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WOW

aMuse

The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games

by chewiesteeler on Nov 4, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok

I’m glad you changed that, self mutilation is not tolerated here.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It puts the lotion in the basket

The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games

by chewiesteeler on Nov 4, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the biscuit in the cradle?

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 4, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again

Bad Andy, Good Pizza.

by count'em_six on Nov 4, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

can Limas return punts?

by qwikdoc on Nov 5, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like Ricardo Colclough

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Nov 5, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Madison looked terrible at DB on pre-season....

Giving ten yard cushions and being beaten repeatedly. Of course, I don’t know if LeBeau had dailed up that coverage. And I do know that he had a lot on his mind, with his father’s final illness. I think they decided that Ratliff was a considerable upgrade over Madison in the nickel package, and that’s why he stayed.

But Logan is so light, he has been manhandled at times on special teams. And the Broncos have a terrific return man in Royal.

Put me in there with Arn. Every potential move has its upsides and downsides. Glad I don’t have to make the decision. But I would try to find a way to get Madison or someone else back in there. Coverage teams are broken again, and we have to fix them by making at least one personnel change.

I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
- Homer J. Simpson

by Homer J. on Nov 4, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

On almost every kick return the Vikings had last week

I think I saw Logan out running, or over running if you will, Harvin. Always having to try and catch up to him. Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t Logan listed as a running back? Can he throw at all? Maybe a version of the Wildcat…The Steelcat? I only bring this up because I can’t see us keeping a pure return specialist on the squad, and if Madison replaces him as gunner….

Just my thoughts after sleeping on it. :)

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 4, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

That’s kind of what a gunner does…

You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"

by steelguy99 on Nov 4, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was under the impression

that a gunner got down field fast to be the first one to hit the returner, or at least redirect him into heavier traffic, or to just slow him up, forcing him to reverse the field. I could be wrong, but if the gunner (Logan, in this instance) just runs right by the returner on the opposite side of the field, doesn’t that kinda defeat the purpose of him being there (if that purpose is the one I indicated.)?

"My doctor said I'd quit getting nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!"
-Ralph Wiggum

by SteelFever on Nov 4, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be nice of him to make the tackle, but the gunner is always going to have blockers waiting for him. “Running past the ball-carrier” is not the desired outcome, but that’s usually what happens when you are flying down the field at full speed and directed by a guy twice your size. Gunners get pushed out of the play constantly.

Logan, like most decent gunners, is at least able to funnel guys towards the desired direction.

You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"

by steelguy99 on Nov 5, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs