Arians + Ben = Tomlins undermining in the Locker Room

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 9:01 PM EST Comment 30 comments

I know, I know...we won a Superbowl with the above combination. However, last year was magical on many levels. A veteran laden defense that peaked as a cohesive unit. Grinding out a big game win after big game win. A little help in the playoffs to give us home field......on and on......

A few yrs back BB talked openly how he wanted to be allowed to do the things Carson does. Ironically he is doing those things and Carson is throwing less and winning more. The Bungles and Steelers are role reversed. The Steelers are always built for running out the clock in the 4th quarter with a punishing FB and a tough RB. That is the recipe for December and January weather....like last night. Arians is the architect of this new passing offense. I won't even begin to discuss the predictable, let BB be BB, line up in shotgun with an empty backfield on 3rd & 1 offense. Let's just agree it's Arians and he really likes throwing. This is why BB loves him. They are and have been building this together. But, BB is and never will be Brees or Manning, not to say he won't be in the HOF cuz I think he will. He just isn't a drop back, read the D and throw a strike kind of guy. He is a gamer, a winner, a leader and an athlete who just kind of gets it's done.

The style of BB is so unpredictable and un..shall I say plannable, that we want a coordinator who doesn't allow BB to call all of the shots. Imagine building a game plan all week knowing full well that once the whistle blows BB is going to just play it by ear. We want an OC who pushes BB to be more concise, more disciplined, more consistent and a better reader of the defense. We want an OC who will, well, save BB from BB. If we don't adjust. If we don't get back to a more balanced ground game. If we don't force BB to get better as he ages he will not only not win another SB but have a short lived career. He is too young to look so slow. When he came into the league he had some agility and speed. Now, he is just big (a tad chubby I think), strong and doesn't know how to slide. This will not last! He cannot play 6 more years like this.

Which brings me to my point.......

Tomlin is allowing Arians to continue down this path and Arians is allowing BB to call the shots. Which means that Tomlin is not calling the shots! And the team isn't improving but getting worse with this new found attack. I think the team thinks this too. I think this is where Hines was going and in some sort of frustrated manner misplaced his frustration.

This team quit. You can argue if they quit on Tomlin or quit on each other. But they quit. We are not witnessing Steelers football out there. None of us can even come up with sound arguments as to why. Which means something is going on in the locker room and it's bigger than Troy being out. This team quit for a reason. You quit when you don't beleive in yourself, the plan or the leadership.

Tomlin can get the team back next yr. Too much talent, to much character and too great of a tradition. However, if he doesn't take a stand with Arians in the off season I think he loses the team. They will prod through next yr and it will be Tomlins last.

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They will prod through next yr and it will be Tomlins last.

What do you mean by this?

by GDEUCE on Dec 11, 2009 9:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

meaning the will be mediocre, more like prodding or muddle through, not best choice of words but you get the drift.

They will go say 8-8 and he will be out

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so,

do you think the steelers will go 8-8 next year, and Tomlin will be fired?
Cuz that is just ridiculous

by GDEUCE on Dec 11, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you are missing the point

I don’t know what they will be next yr but if he keeps Arians there will be more of this yr and it will be the demise of Tomlin

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its not just the offence

the defence has only closed out a couple games all year, the answer isnt just firing Arians, they have to get Ben to just throw the ball away, instead of always trying to extend the play.

by GDEUCE on Dec 11, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

again, missing the point

Of course the defense was bad, actually worse than the offense this yr. Of course they need to get Ben to throw the ball away. And I can point to 20 other things that they need to do or not do. I’m saying this issue with arians and the connection with BB and the lack of managing it all effectivley may just be a major locker room issue because something is. It isn’t all just bad play. There is something more deep seeded going on here the past month.

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm totally with MEP12 on this

But GDEUCE, you’re right too that the defense does need work too. The offense’s problems are just less about personnel and more about philosophy. The defense, although I’ve been underwhelmed by the passive approach, is I think more a problem of personnel.

by pghnorthside on Dec 11, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, agree with that

I could spend all night on this defense. God what a shitty yr for them.

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

also

they cant give up on the running game so fast, i dont care if they are just averaging 3 yrds a carry, they cant pass on nearly every 3rd and 1, or 2.

by GDEUCE on Dec 12, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree, if you can't get a yard then you shouldn't be playing in the NFL

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame
DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel and Chris Carter

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 12, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We are not like everybody else

The Rooneys are patient and will keep Tomlin around for years. We are not the Chargers who fire are HC because he went 14-2 and lost in his first playoff game. We are not like that. Cohwer stayed for 15 years losing playoff games. Noll wasn’t fired during the 80’s when we hardly made the playoffs. Tomlin is going to last.

by Steel in FL on Dec 12, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think they quit

But it is on the coaches. I think Tomlin has tried not to micromanage (not sure), like when he kept Lebeau, even though Tomlin’s a defense guy. Didn’t change the 3-4, even though people expected that (am I right on that?).

Tomlin needs to take over…more than he has. But maybe he has, I don’t have any personal knowledge of how he manages things.

But I don’t think they quit, they are just not focused and lack some deep passion…Porter and Bettis were good at creating some energy.

by Twell on Dec 11, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

disagree

They quit last night…..that was an absolute meltdown.

by MEP12 on Dec 11, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Same with the Ravens allowing Flacco to throw a lot more. Mistake. We get away from the run and don’t use Leron McClaine and McGahee much. Some coaches feel that passing defines success. Some QB’s insist on it. In the AFC North, the best team is the best running team.

by raven on Dec 11, 2009 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agree that Arians is a huge liability and needs to go.

The guy continues to run the same stupid plays weeks after week. Even the crummy teams know what’s coming now. They also know that, whenever Ben has to throw the ball, if they cover the receivers, he’ll hold the ball until he’s sacked. We can’t even run a decent screen play to our RB for God’s sake! We’ve become a totally predictable offense, and that’s nobody’s fault except BA’s. And with Arians’s track record, the last thing you want to do is ask him to implement a new offense next year.

by Billy52 on Dec 11, 2009 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

BA is the guy who ruined Tim Couch and allowed us to come back in the '02 playoffs

lets just remind everyone Tommy Gun was the QB of that steelers team

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame
DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel and Chris Carter

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 12, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big Ben's Shortcommings

Defenses are now playing man to man on Hines, Santonio, Heath, and Wallace with 2 deep safeties – total of 6 DB’s. They rush 4 or 5 and keep Ben in the pocket, so when he starts scrambling there is no where to go or throw… So you guest it, sack
Ben threw to the running back twice (Mendy dropped 1), Heath once, and ran once
Ben struggles with putting the ball on the money
BA is not helping Ben, force him to run the football. This keeps Defenses honest and tired. Which slows down the pass rush… Peewee Football Coaches know this
BA goes with 5 wideouts no one in the backfield. Same coverage as above and only rush 4 dlinemen. Ben’s see’s this and starts holding the ball, afraid to force into coverage. BA, please keep the D honest by leaving a running back and/or TE in backfield. Also, mix in a screen or fake screen to Heath and go to Mendy
Trai Essex was horrible on the line. (Ramon Foster you’re up)

by 72Steeler on Dec 12, 2009 2:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I could care less about the Chargers. I'll blow my damn whistle whenever I damn feel like it. Every time I blow my damn whistle, your mother blows me.

by Hochuli loves Broccoli on Dec 12, 2009 5:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Good sentiment

I don’t know if the offense needs someone to make Ben more disciplined and take greater control over him. The only drive where the Steelers looked good was the one that ended with the half. That was a no huddle drive. No OC control = good offense.

Although, you might say that is only because Arians is so bad…see picture.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 12, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure we TRY to run RB screens, but they always look like we're practicing out there.

by Billy52 on Dec 12, 2009 7:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great post MEP12

You have hit on a huge (not the only) issue. Running is a mindset where a staff has to believe in benefits vs. stats. Much of the benefit of a consistent power running game comes late in a game in things like a reduced pass rush, open receivers due to DB’s creeping up and a metal edge from pounding on the D for 3+ quarters. As bad as everyone wants to say the D has played they have kept us in 1 score games all season with historically bad special teams play. A perfect recipe for pounding the rock.

by Steelers fan in Boston on Dec 12, 2009 8:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agree with MEP12

It has become painfully obvious that we are abandoning the run. I don’t know the stats, but it feels like we haven’t been able to pick up a 3rd & 1 or 2 since the Bus retired. There was a lot of buzz in training camp for Isaac Redman, and the goal line drives he made. I’m not suggesting he should have made the roster, or maybe I am I liked him, but the buzz had me feeling like we were going to get back to Steeler “Smash ’em” Football.

by Bleed Black n Gold on Dec 12, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Redmon will be on the roster next year as FWP moves to “greener” pastures.
Possibly with a new OC, Mendenhall, Tank, Redmon and a mid round RB draft pick we will go back to “Steelers Football” in 2010.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Dec 12, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty certain Mewelde is gone next yr

Isn’t he a free agent? If not cut him. He was money last yr when we had FWP and Mendy hurt but he has been horeible this yr. Slow, god he’s slow. No moves. And please block the frggin blitzing LB Mewelde. I like the idea of Redman and Mendy and maybe Logan or another shifty young back for creative plays. Mendy should be getting the ball 23 times a game. Redman can spell him another 6 and if there is a way, I think Mendy coould be great on 3rd downs. He can block, he can catch ou of the backfield and more importantly, keeping mendy in on 3rd makes the D think maybe, just maybe a run play whereas when Mewelde is in they know it’s pass.

by MEP12 on Dec 12, 2009 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

best thing I've seen all season is Mendy stoning Ray Lewis on a blitz

by klompus on Dec 12, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Love your Political Analysis

You made some great points, raised some good issues and proposed an interesting scenario.

About some of the above comments;

1) Best perhaps most important – desire, mindset, teamwork, leadership (good coaching) out the door… locker room conflicts are a natural replacement. This is Ben’s biggest problem… he wants to fix it all by his play alone and is not capable enough… is anyone under this situation.

2) Ben most often gets into trouble before you can count…. one… two. That is considerably less than Manning, Brady or Brees gets from their O-Line. True, Ben needs to cut his losses more often with a throw-away but he developed this make it happen attitude because… well, look at the O-Line he has had to work with. Remember, we all applauded this in Ben when we knew we had blocking issues but now the opponents have figured out how to combat that ability in Ben. SIDE NOTE: I saw Ben this summer… he put on a few pounds but not many. He has however added more pads to his ribs due to becominga tackling dummy.

3) Regarding BA & BB & Passing, there is truth to some of the points above like “Keeping Ds Honest with a Blocking/Running Back”, “Ben must become a better study”, etc. Remember back to Ben’s first starts. He was raw and “sandlot style” but had some great stuff to build on. The Wizz took this and built an offensive plan to fit Ben’s strenghs and thusly, fit Ben into the offensive strength and “Ouila” ( or whoppee if you please). The Cleveland reject (with apparent T help) threw it all out and the Wizz did it all over again successfully in Arizona. By the way, I know Lienart personally. I have watched him (and coached for a while) since he was 12. Good kid, coachable, smart, slow, left-handed with average arm (operated on 4 times and on it’s last legs – arm on last legs… weird thought) – the Wizz may have met his match.

4) It took Bettis (a true Steeler mentality from birth) a while to get his game on – and we all know what followed. Mendy is getting his game together and improves from game to game. He is the future anchor our running game if the Steelers open some gaps for him. This brings us back to the O-Line & OC issue. Out, out and more out with the old, fat, slow and unwilling… and the disabled one on the side line. Hey Tommy babe, this is a good place to start… like on the trip back to Pittsburgh on Thursday.

Again great thoughts and observations MEP12. You filled in some gaps from my post “Steelers – Fork ’em”.

by Hollywood Steel on Dec 12, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Just went and read "fork em"

Good stuff…somehow missed it. Interesting choice of words when you say “political analysis” HWood Steel. That is exactly what I am trying to do. Forget the missed tackling, the week DB play, the special teams coverage, etc. There is something going on that’s much bigger here. This team is too talented and experienced to melt down the way they have. You being coach know that as well. So, yes the political analysis is that the Arians and BB thing is somehow a divide in the locker room. I say again, what Hines ward said meant more then we heard. I don’t know what but it did.

by MEP12 on Dec 12, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

redman

Not positive on this just an opinion, but I feel that redman isn’t on this team anymore because arians doesn’t want him here. he doesn’t want a back in there that can get third and one or two he wants to throw the ball period. now whether that’s because it’s what ben wants or not i don’t know .I have seen quite a bit of what ben wants he gets (which i think is why ward doesn’t much care for him again just opinion on that part) It seems to me that someone ben, arians are trying to make ben a pocket passer which he isn’t he needs to roll out, run around make things happen. when he stays in the pocket he gets sacked most of the time because he can’t get away from the d. Just my opinion…

by billsteelcity on Dec 12, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

interesting concept

by MEP12 on Dec 12, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

will someone post the actual scenerios for playoffs

for us crazy people. please.

I drank before the game cause I was excited
I drank during the game cause I was confused
I drank after the game cause, well, I was already drinking. why not?

by Steelchamps !! on Dec 12, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs