Wow, I think it may be Tomlin or me...
by rickmottley on Dec 20, 2009 8:59 PM EST
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Printi think he has gotta go...
who thinks that onside kick is a smart move. i have been a sold out steeler fan since the late 80's, keep in mind im in still only 28 years old, but that was the worst football move i have ever seen. im sure it will be all over this site, but this move is undeinable crazy and dumb. What happened? Am i missing something? If they lose to G.B., and the season is over...if he is back next year I think about jumping ship.
Thank the Lord BB is a hero in this game, or Tomlin is a dirty word for the rest of my life, espiecally after oakland takes out denver. I know lots of guys on here have huge football IQ's, but that move reaked of a Vegas fix, crazy dumb, with no thoughtful motive....let the ideas fly, but I say Tomlin is gone, or I may have to think about taking up something retarded like nascar....
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Fail.
Guess what. Every coach makes bad calls. Everyone. He thought we would gain an edge there if we got the ball considering on-site kicks that are not expected have a 60% success rate. And it was the right call if Taylor had let the ball bounce one more time.
If you honestly are going to jump ship if Tomlin stays, just do it now. He is staying, because he is a good coach.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
I disagree
Our defense has had trouble all year at stopping game-ending drives by the opposition. I prefer to get the ball back in our offense’s hands with just over 2 minutes left than what happened with Oakland. This way we ended it on our terms. (Of course “Hindsight is 20/20”)
I have to agree
If we kick off deep, the way GB was moving the ball on us, they drive the length of the field, score, and leave us no time on the clock. I think it was the right move no matter which way it goes, and we almost got it, if Ike would have let it go one more yard.
Also agree
I can’t blame Tomlin for the players lack of execution. Yes it was a very gutsy call, but it sure seemed as if Ike had just let the ball bounce that we had the players in place to recover the ball. Assuming that had happened we would all be praising him for the gutsy call but instead we are questioning him. I do worry however about the defense’s confidence, or what was left of it at least, after he made that decision.
by steelersfan4life on Dec 21, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well as Bill Cowher said once...
“I’m young, I make F**king mistakes too!”
Young coaches sometimes make boneheaded calls. That was referenced after Cowher tried to have a fake kick and Gary Anderson run into the endzone. That call had to be around 1992, so maybe you saw it. I’m 21 so I don’t remember it as well.
Just relax. Sometimes coaches make mistakes.
With that choice, It's you.
If you are crying about the coach who has been here less than five years and has a team that has picked last in the draft two out of the last four drafts, then you have to go. Go find a bandwagon for the Jets or the Redskins, they need you RickMottley. Find a front runner that goes out and signs the high profile free agents and then you can wonder why they don’t win. Have a good day.
In Defense of Tomlin
Honestly, what do people think would have happened if Tomlin had just kicked it the length of the field? I’ll tell you: The same thing that has happened n almost every loss this season, the D would have given up the field goal or the touchdown. The only difference would have been that Ben and the O would have had little, if any, time to work.
I mean did anyone honestly think Willie Gay or Ike were gonna make a big stop, or how about Clark or Carter? Those guys were getting abused all night. And in the last GB drive, on a short field admittedly, they gave up a touchdown instead of a field goal. At least they scored quickly though. If they had worked the clock we would be talking about another defensive collapose in the 4th.
We’ve all been talking about how the O needs to grind out the clock, or put up huge amounts of points in order to protect the D. Well, they held the ball for over 35 minutes and ended up putting up 37 points on the number 2 D in the NFL. You can’t reasonably ask for better production than that. So, when it looked like EVEN that wouldn’t be enough Tomlin decided to take a chance to put the ball back into their hands. I don’t think there’s any way we win this game if he puts his D on the field to close it out. Their record just doesn’t show that they’re capable of that this year. Not without Troy at least.
If Cowher was the arch conservative coach (especailly iin the playoffs) then Tomlin is a gambler. I honestly dont’ believe that Tomlin cares what people think of him, doesn’t care about winning impressively, he only cares about having 1 more point than the guys on the other side of the field when the clock hits zero.
by BluegrassSteeler on Dec 20, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Rec. Agreed
I wrote this on another fanpost:
Unexpected onside kicks have a success rate of over 60%. Last night our defense had a success rate of under 50%. So Tomlin played the odds. It actually did work, but Ike was too bone-headed to let it bounce one more time past the 40. The nearest packer was being blocked and had no chance at the ball.
Our defense was not going to stop Aaron Rodgers tonight. Especially with William Gay in the game (he is awful, not getting into that though). The call actually worked in a way, because GB got down the field and scored leaving 2 minutes. Had they had to go the entire field, which they would have, they woulda ate up the entire clock and we would have lost.
Respect Tomlin.
Thought it applied
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Dec 20, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree with yens all more
I was shocked at the time, but it turned out to be the right move. If we just kick, you are putting faith in a defense that has yet to make a fourth quarter stop this season, playing against a good scrambling QB. Remember the Pack only needed a field goal. What were the chances that we were going to get the ball back? Think about it.
Unorthodox, but brilliant, and in the end the game winning decision.
Get off his back haters. There is plenty wrong with this team, that doesn’t have anything to do with the HC.
by SteelerBuddha on Dec 20, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I was shocked at the time too
(Ike fielded that ball?) but it makes a lot of sense. If we get the ball, we put our offense on the field, who played pretty well this week, and keep our defense which didn’t play very well, off the field. If we don’t get the ball, we give Green Bay a short field, and a good chance of getting the ball back near the two minute warning, after the Green Bay score.
Tomlin explains it at his post-game press conference.
"We just have to play better as a whole team." James Harrison
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Dec 20, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was Shocked that Ike caught the ball!
I getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
by Steel in FL on Dec 21, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
Defense has proven it can’t hold a lead. Why not give the hands team a shot to win the game. Even if the Steelers lose, that’s a good call.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Dec 20, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
on-site kicks, okay, you are as dumb as tomlin….enough said,
I prefer to get the ball back in our offense’s hands with just over 2 minutes,…. so you give our defense zero percent chance of stoping them? come on, anyone whoever can rationalize this move is crazy…assuming they score with time for us to drive back down the field is stupid.
“Just relax. Sometimes coaches make mistakes”, i agree 100%, for example, tossing to MW or 3rd and long vs. KC, totally the wrong call, but this was legendary…onside kick after going up 2, who have to be kidding…
StinkBomb, I have made my case, it has been a long road since we have had the last picks in drafts, i have no problem with Colbert, he is smarter then i am, but I dont think Tomlin is…this onside kick is terrible, the best case scenario here is they score FAST…
Anyone who thinks that move is smart is crazy, why not just let them return the kick, then we could really control the clock. I am convinced anyone who thinks the onside kick was a great move is lacking in brain cells. Is your arguement we cant stop them, so let them score so we can score to win….? get real, we were totally lucky to win this game for one reason, #7 is a stud.
The people who defend this move are the same idiots who defend the pats coach for going for it a few weeks ago in INDY, it just isn’t logical
Given the empirical evidence we have on tape of the D giving up leads not only in previous games but also in the one today I seriously can’t fathom why anyone would think that we could stop them on the final drive. Seriously, they couldn’t even hold them to a field goal.
With the way they played in the second half I can honestly say that I would not be able to tell the difference between them allowing somebody to score in order to give the ball back to the O and them just blowing it. And I mean that in all honesty.
by BluegrassSteeler on Dec 20, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
So let me get this straight...
In 6 of our 7 LOSSES we lost winnable games late because we followed conventional wisdom, ie, make the opposition’s offense drive the length of the field on a Dick Lebeau defense, ranked no. 5 best defense this season, no. 1 last season, yada yada yeah whatever because we’re losing games, and not just winnable games, but games to the freakin Raiders, Chiefs, and BROWNS.
Our HC sees this, and though he’s pleased w/ the reputation of the Pittsburgh D no doubt, he decides to act on the blasphemous thought that maybe our D will act the same as it has all year, all during that game in fact, and it won’t be able to stop the Greenbay offense.
So he devises a way to get the ball back into the offenses possession as quickly as possible to at least give us a chance to win, if our D continues it’s trend of losing composure in the 4th, and, lo and behold, we have a win. That’s what I call a good HC. He couldn’t fix the D, so he didn’t allow them to decide the game. Either way, opinions are just that, so calm it down there buddy, the negativity isn’t necessary.
by PTownSteelTown on Dec 21, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
on-
site-side kicks, okay, you are as dumb as tomlin
I always find it extremely hilarious when someone spells something wrong in a sentence where they are calling someone else dumb. Nice work. “On-side” kick would be the term.
Anyone who can rationalize this defense not being able to stop a team is irrational? WHAT?!?! This defense that has given up like 8 game winning drives in the 4th quarter this year? This defense that has given up more points in the 4th quarter than it has in the other 3 quarters combined? This defense that has given up nearly 40% of the opposing teams offense in the 4th quarter? This defense that gave up 383 yards and 3 touchdowns to Aaron Rodgers? How in the world can you rationalize that this defense would have stopped them? That is insanity.
we were totally lucky to win this game for one reason, #7 is a stud.
Guess who knew that? Mike Tomlin. And he also knew our pass offense was swiss cheese. He took a stab at an unexpected on-side kick which has a success rate of over 60% and our defense had a success rate of well under 50% last night. He played the odds. Tell me, if you are playing poker do you go all in with the worst hand or the best hand? Tomlin chose to go all in and hopefully put his offense back on the field. It was the right call and Ike should have let it bounce one more time.
If Tomlin had not done that GB would have marched the entire field, ate up the entire clock, and kicked the game winning field goal. This way, he at least gave Ben a chance to win them the game.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2009 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
johnny read the first post
the whole on site kick reference,i was quoting directly from YOU in your earlier post. let me guess your a disciple of Tomlin???
just cause we dont hire alot of em...
doesnt mean this is a good one, this move was terrible….
Thank the Lord for the best steeler of all time, BB is my man crush
it’s hard to come to a conclusion on this without knowing what the man’s motives were.
if it was a decision made in the negative – as in because of previous failures – that’s a ludicrous concept and a horrible, make the indefensible decision.
if it was a decision made in the positive – as in catch them off guard and get the ball, therefore ending the game – that’s ok, especially when you’re dangling from the playoff tree by a loose acorn on a windy day.
I definately didn't "love" it
BUT
I also accept the fact that I am not, and will never be a NFL football coach. Let alone one that has a Super Bowl championship.
I trust that Tomlin made that decision for the correct reasons.
Also, did he answer questions on this post-game?
Yep
He said he pretty much was thinking the same thing as everyone who approves. Give the ball to the squad that has had the most success. I’m sorry RickMottley but you aren’t getting it. Why leave it up to William Gay and the sour secondary to win the game? How about our loaded offense that had been driving all day. It was a smart move and I stand behind Tomlin.
Bring a towel to the game. Black or gold or yellow. If you don't have one buy one, If you can't buy one, dye one!
Xbox Live Gamertag- Alf Ardanyu
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 20, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
J-e-t-s....
i know i over reacted, im not jumping ship…. but whoever suggested the jets should be on tomlins next coaching staff…probley a junior high team, maybe you could be the special teams coach…
to go up 2 late in a game, and to go for an onside kick is totally recklass, please people, just cause he is our coach doesnt mean he is smart. 9 out of 10 times this ends our season in my opinion. dont get me wrong, we will win out, and philly will crush denver…
leading to a second striaght title, but i still tomlin get canned…and i think he should
You're a reckl ass
Bring a towel to the game. Black or gold or yellow. If you don't have one buy one, If you can't buy one, dye one!
Xbox Live Gamertag- Alf Ardanyu
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 20, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree with the the gamble either...............
but to say Tomlin should be fired is absurd. We just won the SB 10 months ago.
so you are saying
leading to a second striaght title, but i still tomlin get canned…and i think he should
If tomlin wins back to back super bowls – winning 2 super bowls in his first 4 years as a head coach, you’d fire him …… lol that has to be the dumbest thing I have EVER heard. That is no hyperbole either.
Rick you might as well pull for someone else because I gotta feeling that tomlin will be here for a while – At least 3 more years, if he wins another super bowl – at least 10 more years. You don’t fire super bowl winning head coaches unless they have had several bad years. Denver didn’t fire Mike S. for 10 years. How long it took Gruden to get fired?
just cause he is our coach doesnt mean he is smart. 9 out of 10 times this ends our season in my opinion
Genius is often misunderstood.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 21, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
From jumpin ship to NASCAR, to Winning a Title
pass the joint homey!!
by Steelchamps !! on Dec 22, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Question: Do you think the onside kick gave confidence to your defense when they had to defend a short field?
Mike Tomlin: I was just trying to win a football game. First and foremost, I wanted the ball, we hadn’t stopped them in the second half and they hadn’t stopped us, both teams were driving the football. I wanted to maintain possession of it, we weren’t able to do that. I figured if they’re working on a short field and they were to happened to score, we’d have appropriate time to drive down the field, which is kind of how the game unfolded.
Bring a towel to the game. Black or gold or yellow. If you don't have one buy one, If you can't buy one, dye one!
Xbox Live Gamertag- Alf Ardanyu
by SoCalSteelerFan on Dec 21, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions
Next week...
When Baltimore gets to our 40-yard line, should the defense fall down & let the Ravens score to conserve the time clock?
Next week
is different, different game with different circumstances. You have to coach each game according to how that game is unfolding. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 21, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
You dont need to give confidence to the Defense
When they are sucking ass, its not about reassuring them. That just makes them think they aren’t messing up.
Sometimes you gotta say, with or without words, you guys blow right now and we dont trust you. Maybe that will motivate them, maybe not.
Exactly
lets not be enablers here. When someone has a problem you address, not cater their ego and pretend it doesn’t exist that makes things worse.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 21, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I liked the call for a multitude of reasons
1. As has been pointed out numerous times the D was unable to stop the GB Offense.
2. GB only needed a FG to take the lead.
3. It was an unexpected move which increased the probability that it would succeed.
4. If it fails GB has a short field and (in theory) if they scored would leave more time on the clock for the PIT O to mount a comeback.
5. Our special teams have sucked all year long. Who’s to say a deep kickoff would not have resulted in an even quicker score.
6. Reed’s kickoffs are regularly returned to the 35 or 40 yard line anyways so you are only sacrificing 20-25 yards.
7. We were/are a desperate team and need to pull out all the stops. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
To suggest Tomlin will or should be fired for this move is ridiculous. The performance of the ST and Defensive units have cost us game after game after game after game after game this season. Tomlin clearly recognized that kicking the ball “deep” would likely end in the same type of last second losses that have haunted this team all year long. It was the right play in that it gave the O a chance to get the ball back with enough time on the clock.
W
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
A
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame
DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Chris Carter and Kevin Greene
2009 Pittsburgh Steelers the Perefect Storm of Suck
Chris Henry 1983-2009 RIP
by WVPiratesfan on Dec 21, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
V
I always want to go F for waffles…
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
V
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 21, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
You sir, are retarded
it was not at all the wrong call. Anybody who thinks so clearly hasnt watched what happens to steelers defense in the 4th quarter when Samoan Jesus is on the sidelines…
Get it into your head. We have been allowing TD’s like crazy against teams in the 4Q. And so, with 4 minutes left. It was either, keep the ball, or give it back with short field so they can score quickly.
I would put my years wage on the fact that if we kick off normally, we lost that game.
San Diego might be a good rooting place for you.
It is on the coast, the have ships you can jump from, and waves too!
"We just have to play better as a whole team." James Harrison
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Dec 21, 2009 10:46 AM EST reply actions
Roll tide roll
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 21, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Great pic, look at that hole.
"We just have to play better as a whole team." James Harrison
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Dec 21, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
with the little guy in it
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 21, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
That's going to crash on him in a minute
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
His ankle leash is probably sennit
"We just have to play better as a whole team." James Harrison
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Dec 21, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
Please Jump ship. Like it or not the Steelers don’t fire coaches after 3 season, at least not for the last 30 years.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
Were you a Cowher fan?
What did you think of his surprise onsides call in the Superbowl? Did you want to jump ship after that one?
I did like Cowher
to compare the two onside kicks is totally different. In that game the Steeler were BEHIND like 10 points, that is an ocassion for an onside kick.
However, going up by 2 with 4 minutes is not smart by any move. I know the situation this season, but honestly the strategy is bad…they could have easily taken more time off the clock, in that sense we were very lucky that we had a chance to win.
The bottom line to me is that we won, so people think it was a good move. I am happy we won, but if we lost I think the majority of people would lose tons of respect for the guy.
I know he will be here for awhile, but I lost tons of respect for him, and i know that doesnt matter…but someday when I take over the world it might.
I think you underestimate a majority of people.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 21, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Tomlin Fxckin Rocks
Hes got Balls to stand by his decision. unlike your wishy washy rabble babble
by Steelchamps !! on Dec 22, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Ask him to defend Cowher's great AFC championship record
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
It seems that the majority of people here think that saying anything bad about Tomlin is blasphemy
Coach win games = coach good (Picture Tim Allen in Home Improvement followed by a series of grunts)
The reality is Pittsburgh doesn’t fire head coaches. Tomlin will get his chance to show if he can maintain a good team.
"Sick Puppy is ultimately as unforgiving as nature's order... There is no redemption or apology." - wikipedia
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