COWHER VS. TOMLIN
by grapes on Dec 9, 2009 6:06 PM EST
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I guess it is all about instant gratification. I remember, this summer, reading posts about how Cowher was not that great a coach because we should have won more SB's under him with the talent we had. At this point in time we had just won a SB, and Tomlin was a young genius for winning it in his second year. The smack talk was all about Bill.
Now, at 6-6, we have fans posting on Tomlin being good PR man with some witty sayings, and not a very good coach.
I'm not saying Tomlin is perfect, in fact I think he is too stubborn sometimes, but let's keep things in perspective. It is not realistic to think we will be dominant all the time, under any coach, ever. Yes, the talent might be better than last year, and it rips my heart out to see them play this way, but I have good and bad days at work too, and so do my supervisors. Let's keep it real. Tomlin is a good coach an this will be worked out eventually.
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A bit early
This debate can’t really be meaningful for another 4 or 5 years at least. It’s possible to pick out down and up stretches for both of them, but we simply need a larger body of work to examine to reasonably judge them against one another.
by BluegrassSteeler on Dec 9, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions
tomlin VS cowher..
I am not sure that Cowher SHOULD have won more superbowls…He never had a QB like BB..Odonnell threw the superbowl away, kordell killed us in 2 championship games…tommy maddox?? Kent graham? Tomzac?..he got BB way too late.
What are you takling about Tommy Gun was the greatest QB to throw more INT than QB
actually I take that back second greatest Joe Namath did come close to throwing more TD that INT
"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach
Didn't come close
"From time to time gunfighters get shot."-Mike Tomlin the third greatest Steelers coach
Love Cowher
He is really a fascinating study of character. I agree that he has been given far too little credit for some amazing accomplishments with teams that had so little productivity at the most important position on the roster.
At the same time, I think the deficiencies at quarterback were largely influenced by Cowher; that early on he felt he could win with a stellar defense (and I do believe that ’94 defense stands above any defensive unit between the White-Brown-Simmons dominated Eagles defenses to the ’08 Steelers), a big workhorse running back and an offensive line that was borderline dominant. Later, I felt that he recognized the need for better play at quarterback, but his handling of the position was suspect on a good day and inexcusably incompetent often.
Although I think this would fall under the rumor category, I’ve heard more than one member of the media indicate that once Rivers went #4, Cowher wasn’t interested in Ben or a QB at all and that he preferred to take Shawn Andrews.
Despite his seeming blind spot for the QB position, I do think it would have been a far different path for Cowher if Jerry Jones hadn’t grabbed Chan Gailey to be the head coach. Perhaps Gailey would have worked more cohesively with Cowher and either developed Kordell more successfully or pushed the organization to move more quickly in another direction.
by pghnorthside on Dec 9, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really want to say one is better than the other
Cowher was a great coach, and as someone said he did not have a BB caliber QB the majority of his stay here. I will say that when we got a lead with Cowher I was a lot more comfortable than I have been this year.
I think it is a very good point that Tomlin can be very stubborn. It took him entirely too long this year to make the adjustments on ST and now in the secondary. Tomlin is still a good coach though. He just needs to be a little bit more hard nosed than he has been this year.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
I think Cohwer was more stubborn than Tomlin
Wasn’t our ST poor in 01 which the Patriots took advantage on in the AFCCG? Did Cohwer do anything to fix it? Tomlin did.
You show me a coach that's not stubborn
and you found a coach that won’t last long
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
stubborn yep
I look to Paterno as a prime example and could see a bit of that in Tomlin
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Dec 10, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
There is good stubborn and bad stubborn. Clearly, Tomlin’s reluctance to significantly alter the ST and secondary are of the latter stubborn.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Oh really?
I don’t think it’s that clear. Show me what you would do to change it.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 10, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Sign Anthony Madison. Sit William Gay.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Already done
Now how did you know that needed to be done? I’m taking you somewhere.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 10, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
4 TD returns and the worst ST in the league by a lot probably helped me come to the decision on the ST.
And the fact that Gay is int he top 3 worst CBs in the league by the numbers.
Those things probably are a red flag. Hell, even after 2TD you should start switching things up. 3 it is a must. 4, what the hell were you waiting for?
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone saw that
You aren’t reporting anything new. Anthony Madison was not always available. There were some other options out there. He tried them out. When they didn’t work and Madison was available he went for it. Do you know how many people he tried out on kick coverage in practice?
Do you know how the rookies practice? Do you understand that if they don’t have a part of their game down they can turn into head cases if you put them in too early? Do you understand that sometimes when given time someone can get it all of a sudden and fix a problem?
I know for sure you don’t know the dynamics of the team outside of TV coverage. Remember I’m telling you that it’s not clear that his “stubbornness” is bad. You named a couple things that could be done. You don’t have the inside one what is making a player play the way they are. You don’t know what they are asking certain players to do.
So my point is. You see a couple things and you guessed right. You may miss 90% more of those so how can you say it’s CLEAR? Answer your perception may see if that way, but that doesn’t mean your perception isn’t CLOUDED.
I probably didn’t word all of that how I wanted to, but I’m sure you’ll respond and I can clarify.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 10, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if you meant to have a condescending tone to that or not, but if you did, you nailed it.
Anyway, Madison got waived by the Browns in early November. Just after we had given up back-to-back returns in Cleveland and Minnesota (not to include many long returns and many missed tackles). We did not even try him out then. We waited until there were two more returns and he was cut by the Colts before considering him. I don’t really care about the players they tried out when you have your best ST coverage guy from last year right there. Grab him.
Your argument about the rookies would be acceptable if that is not exactly what happened to Gay this year. As bad as Gay has been abused and the fact that we had to adjust our entire defense around him being a handicap could not be good for his psyche. How long does it take to realize that Gay was not good enough to play #2 CB. You could see he was two slow for the task pretty early on. Taking 13-14 weeks to even consider subbing him out seems a little bit ridiculous to me. I can understand giving someone “time”, i.e. tops 6-7 weeks, but almost the entire season? As Keyshawne would say “Come on, man!”
Not to add the “significant” amount of players Tomlin tried out came after the 3rd TD return and extreme roster moves were not made until after the 4th.
Anyway, we will see how stubborn or not Tomlin is, depending on what they do with players like Gay, Townsend, Farrior, Moore, FWP, and even BTSC’s favorite coach BA.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
It was not condescending
It was mearly pointing out some things that had to be considered before anything is “clear”. Sure they had back to back runbacks, however they still won those games. I know….“so what”. When you are winning you think more about fixing things than dismantling. I don’t think not making a move here makes subbornness a “clear bad” thing.
(You lose points for quoting Keyshawn)
Was the defense really “adjusted all around” just for Gay alone?
Do you think Tomlin watches tape? Do you think Lebeau LeBeau watches tape? Do you think LeBeau has any say at all in who plays? Meaning if he lobbies for somwone do you think he gets Tomlin’s ear?
My point is….That is a bold statement to make with just the knowledge of what you see on TV.
On another note: What if he stuck with Sweed? He let rookie take that spot. Don’t you think if he had someone else ready he would get Gay out of there?
Questions. Quesions….nothing is “clear”
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
I know. I hate Keyshawne myself, but that Come On Man thing they do has some funny plays. I will -1 myself. And for good measure -1 again.
Wallace would probably be the perfect prototype for why you give the rookie a shot. There is no way that Wallace had the entire playbook down and I know there were questions of his route running, but we still put him in and said “What can ya do for us?” He produced.
Why not give two of the rookie corners that same shot? Put them on a man and say “don’t let him catch it”. Then week in and week out they can get a handle of hold of the more comprehensive understanding of the defensive plays. It’s not like we are trying to throw a QB out there. There were many games this year where Gay should have grabbed some pine and had other players opted in for a chance (those not named Ratliff).
It is also a bold statement to believe that no matter what Tomlin and LeBeau have made the right move. They may have a lot more knowledge of the intricacies of the personnel than I do, but that does not mean they are always making the correct choice.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
That last paragragh
First sentence: I don’t think anyone ever said that.
Second sentence: That also doesn’t mean that “Clearly, Tomlin’s reluctance to significantly alter the ST and secondary are of the latter stubborn.”
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. The adjustments Tomlin made to me fall under the “too little too late” category and IMO are a big part of why we will not be defending our title this year (clearly he had no control over Troy’s injury, better use? haha)
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
You missed the point but that's ok
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
No I get your point, but I still don’t agree. He clearly (again IMO) had a reluctance to change up the personnel because of his stubbornness or his “favoritisms” towards certain players. But again, this is my opinion, and we are not going to agree.
I still love Tomlin as a coach, but next year I want to see twice the desire from this year.
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
comparing to Paterno
I meant this as a good thing. I grew up in that area and before I even understood the game, I knew that he was set in his ways and stubborn. He has become a legend and I am hoping that this stubborness had something to do with it.
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Dec 10, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
That was my point
Sometimes hindsight will prove you made a bad decision, but if you don’t have a system you show some “stubbornness” to stick with then you’ll be like a fan…up and down and doing things here and there. Saying a bad decision was made is not saying that your area that you don’t compromise is “bad” it just says that it’s not perfect. You live and learn. Who knows next time the proper action may be to wait. You can adjust but you still coach by some kind of code.
Paterno lets Freshmen play now….but he still pretty much won’t play them. Is he right all the time no. I’m not talking about individual circumstances I am talking about the code itself.
The code=good, but bad in some instances. So the code is not “clearly bad.”
I don’t knwo why I’m tellign you that because you know what I was saying.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Man I could have written that better
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
HC
Cowher was a great motivator of men. He was not a great X and O guy. He would have his guys fired up to hit every week. The Steelers consistently won games under Cowher. Problem was when he faced a great X and O guy like Shanahan or Belicheat* he would get out coached and his team outplayed. QB situation had a TON to do with it.
Later in his career he learned the lessons of playing to win instead of playing not to lose. That was when he threw to set up the run (using Ben) and then milk the clock with the lead. Gadget plays would be used to score. I really loved the Y2K Cowher and Whiz style of play and offensive identity. Currently the Steelers have no offensive identity.
I agree with above that is too soon to judge who is the better coach long term. Obviously Tomlin won a Lombardi much quicker, but Coach T had a ton of Cowher’s guys and Big Ben. Tomlin is a good coach, an NFL up and comer and I feel game day experience will only make him better.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
wasnt out coached..
belicheck had brady and video cameras, and shanahan had elway…we had kordell stewart…do the math
Wasn’t out coached? You think Cowher was a great X&O guy? WOW.
1) 1992 vs Buffalo in the playoffs? 24-3? At home? Coaching had nothing to do with it?
2) 1994 vs SD in the playoffs? 17-13 to Stan Humphries & Albert Pupunu?
3) 1995 vs DAL in XXX? Barry Switzer?
4) 1997 vs DEN in the playoffs? Eway or no Elway…throwing an INT in the EZ on 2nd & 2 from the DEN 25 on first down? ETC ETC in that game?
5) 2001 ST debacle against NE and Bledsoe?
C’mon NYC. The guy was a GREAT motivator. I’m a HUGE Cowher fan but you have to admit…
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
I know what you mean by #4
but you might want to clarify the “2nd & 2 from the DEN 25 on first down”
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
by PixburghArn on Dec 10, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
1. Although that was about the end of Buffalo’s salad days, it was still their salad days. The offense that year was Barry Foster and not much else. The defense had players, but Steed and Kirkland were backups and Greene was still a Ram. They did not play well at all that day, but they lost to a measurably more talented and infinitely more experienced Bills team.
3. I actually thought the coaching kept the Steelers in that game even though they were up against a Cowboy team littered with future HOF’ers. That one goes on O’Donnell IMO.
Absolutely right on the other three though.
2. Offense went in to a total shell after a touchdown on the first drive. In fact, I believe that was the last game Ron Erhardt coached in the NFL. If so, his exile was deserved.
4. Even if that pass resulted in a touchdown, arguably the best two minute drill QB to ever play still would have had a chance to score a touchdown at the end of the half. Not to mention that The Bus was lights out that year.
5. Sometimes you don’t have to meet a person face-to-face to get a fairly good idea of their mental capacity. Troy Edwards was not such a person. It was fairly clear from day one that he probably spent much of his childhood riding the short bus. The penalty on Edwards for running out of bounds on punt coverage was inexcusable for both the player and (since he had been regularly doing it) for the coaching staff not correcting him. And the blocked field goal attempt was only slightly less egregious because a rule violation was not involved.
by pghnorthside on Dec 10, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
o really?
Buffalo WAS the better team..they had a better QB, RB and receivers..Switzer…O donnell gave that game away…2001..KORDELL STEWART…AND eLWAY..WE WERE BEATEN BY 3 hof QBS..ELWAY, KELLY AND BRADY SURE, THE SAN DIEGO GAME WE LOST…i have 2 words for you…Tim Mckyer!
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 10, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
She makes a good point
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
You didn't ask me to
:)
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
Some places you have to pay extra for that
Wall of Shame
-"I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Brownie's Year
-"BB is ok (slightly overated)…but he is NO Kyle Orton! I’ll take Kyle over Ben any day" - Bronco_Fan_Tom
-PIT 24 KC 27
-Mike Tomlin's idea of "Unleashing Hell"
by John Stephens on Dec 10, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I remember ...
,,,, that New England playoff game, the TV commentator(i don’t remember who called the game)was so kind as to remind us on every drive that Kordell could only read half the field.
Somehow I don’t think Bill Belicheck was intimidated.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Dec 10, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
remember
Tomlin inherited BB going into his prime! NOT knocking tomlin, but these steelers are playing to the level of competition and at times, cowhers teams too! But, that was due to the QBs he had..
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Lesson Plan
As stated I am a Cowher fan. I just think he wasn’t the X&O wizard you think he is NYC.
1) 1992; Cowher chose O’Donnell over Brister at seasons beginning. Mistake 1. At 8-5 with O’Donnell hurt, Brister went 3-0 leading Steelers into playoffs with #1 seed and home game against BUF. Cowher inserts O’Donnell back into the lineup and benches Brister who took Steelers within 2 minutes of 1989 AFCCG against (your idol) Elway AT DEN. O’Donnel lays an egg. Buf 24 PIT 3. COACHING BLUNDER.
2) Switzer was an idiot. Cowher lost to him. O’Donnell threw the game away NYC but Steelers NEVER LED in that game. Not for 1 second. Deon caught a pass on us in the first half. COACHING BLUNDERS contributed to this loss. It wasn’t 1 player that lost the game and it never is.
3) Elway lost 2 Superbowls NYC. He could have been beaten and was many times. Not until Shanahan (a guy that could out X and O Reeves and Cowher) did he win a Super Bowl. COACHING BLUNDERS in 1997 all over that game NYC. Did you ever see that game? Bettis was unstoppable and Cowher kept calling Kordell passes. That is the coach.
4) Re SD; 2 words for you NYC. “You’re lost.” if you think one player loses a game. McKyer made a bad play but the coach let the players do a rap video before the game. The Steelers failed to run the ball on SD all day or cash in while in red zone (play calling thus coaching) Then on 4th and 3 the play call is a pass to Barry Foster at the 1? They needed 3 yards NYC. COACHING BLUNDER.
So ends the lesson…Cowher not an X&O man but a great motivator of men.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
Lesson Plan
As stated I am a Cowher fan. I just think he wasn’t the X&O wizard you think he is NYC.
1) 1992; Cowher chose O’Donnell over Brister at seasons beginning. Mistake 1. At 8-5 with O’Donnell hurt, Brister went 3-0 leading Steelers into playoffs with #1 seed and home game against BUF. Cowher inserts O’Donnell back into the lineup and benches Brister who took Steelers within 2 minutes of 1989 AFCCG against (your idol) Elway AT DEN. O’Donnel lays an egg. Buf 24 PIT 3. COACHING BLUNDER.
2) Switzer was an idiot. Cowher lost to him. O’Donnell threw the game away NYC but Steelers NEVER LED in that game. Not for 1 second. Deon caught a pass on us in the first half. COACHING BLUNDERS contributed to this loss. It wasn’t 1 player that lost the game and it never is.
3) Elway lost 2 Superbowls NYC. He could have been beaten and was many times. Not until Shanahan (a guy that could out X and O Reeves and Cowher) did he win a Super Bowl. COACHING BLUNDERS in 1997 all over that game NYC. Did you ever see that game? Bettis was unstoppable and Cowher kept calling Kordell passes. That is the coach.
4) Re SD; 2 words for you NYC. “You’re lost.” if you think one player loses a game. McKyer made a bad play but the coach let the players do a rap video before the game. The Steelers failed to run the ball on SD all day or cash in while in red zone (play calling thus coaching) Then on 4th and 3 the play call is a pass to Barry Foster at the 1? They needed 3 yards NYC. COACHING BLUNDER.
So ends the lesson…Cowher not an X&O man but a great motivator of men.
When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen
Choosing between ....
O’Donnel and Brister is like choosing between dog shit and pig shit both stink and are useless.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Dec 11, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
It's easier to look like....
….a better coach when you have a legit playmaker at the QB position because it becomes easier to win.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Dec 10, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Right
But I think the organization didn’t invest much in the position until Roethlisberger in large part due to Cowher’s influence.
by pghnorthside on Dec 10, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
not true!
Steelers really wanted chad pennington! and wanted trent green..but it didnt happen..Look, theses great QBs dont grow on trees…miami? after marino…pitt , after bradshaw..
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 10, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Pennington?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
yes...
pitt wanted him, from what I read..
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 10, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Good thing they didn't
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill
But they drafted Plax instead. I agree that great quarterbacks aren’t all over the place, but if you don’t have one, you put a little more effort in to it that spending just one pick as high as the second round from 1992 to 2004. Other than Ben in the first in 2004 and Kordell in the second round, I can’t think of any other QB that was selected higher than the fifth round in Cowher’s tenure. And the free agents? Charlie Batch was probably the best of the lot.
by pghnorthside on Dec 10, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Actually...
Kordell was a college QB, but played WR early on. That’s some gray area type stuff though.
'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 10, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Truth...
None higher tha the fifth. Omar Jacobs (5th; 2006), Brian St. Pierre (5th; 2003), Tee MArtin (6th; 2000), Spence Fischer (6th; 1996) Jim Miller (6th; 1994), Alex Van Pelt (8th; 1993), Cornelius Benton (12th; 1992) and of course Kordell Stewart in 1995 as you stated.
'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin
by NYSteelersFan4 on Dec 10, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, that's true....
…..and forgive me if my memory is faulty but before Peyton in ‘98 there was a 10-12 year span where there were only about a handful of QB’s who didn’t stink up the joint, most years there was no one worth choosing.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Dec 10, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
edit
handful of QB’s [in those drafts]who didn’t stink up the joint,
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Dec 10, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Tomlin still needs to build a larger body of work.
I like Tomlin and I think it’s unfair to compare him to Cowher after only a few years as head coach. But I’m not ready to say yet that he’s a great coach. After all, he did inherit a championship-caliber team. How many new NFL coaches ever get that kind of opportunity? He also inherited Dick LeBeau’s defense which, in the past, has consistently been one of the league’s best. But give Tomlin credit for being wise enough not to mess too much with success since he arrived in Pittsburgh.
But now the wheels have started to fall off the wagon and the next generation of the Steelers team and staff will be built mainly by Tomlin. So I think we’ll get a better sense of the kind of coach Tomlin is, based on how he deals with the team’s current adversity and future personnel decisions.
I think he’ll continue to prove he’s a winner, but that’s mainly a guess at this stage. If the Steelers have 2 or 3 consecutive, losing seasons, Mike’s really gonna feel the heat. Steeler Nation simply is not used to losing, and we don’t want to get used to it.
Too early as stated
Cowher drove everyone nuts by not winning in the big game for a long time. Granted, the AFC contenders then the Cowboys were real good but this is the NFL. This year points out how close you are at any time to winning or losing a given game.
I believe Cowher was outcoached in very basic ways by Belichek repeatedly and others. If they took away Bettis, the Steelers struggled the whole game and had no answers. Later, O’Donnell and the pass offense played well for a lot of games but that group didn’t last too long and had an infamous final act.
Not until Cowher had a play-maker at QB and a dominant defense did they win it all, and win ugly they did. Ben did things that were not coached and not controlled by Cowher to get them into the SB. Once there, he imploded but made enough little plays to win without giving the game away totally. Don’t forget that the Ravens won the SB with Trent Dilfer at QB. They found a way to win with less offensive talent than a number of Cowher’s teams. Cowher was a lot like his mentor Marty and in big games the results were the same for a long time. Sometimes circumstances are beyond your control. I think Marty and Cowher are good coaches. I wouldn’t put them in the same league as say a Shanahan. None of them can get close to Noll, Shula, Lombardi, Landry or Walsh. Belichek is right up there with those legends.
Tomlin inherited a really good team and works for arguably the best organization in football if not all professional sports. We will see how he does. A small part of me thinks it’s possible he only lasts through 2011. Besides inheriting the team and FO, he has LeBeau to lean on. Imagine if he took over a 6-10 club with a first year DC and OC?? How good would he look then? Only time will tell.
"Franz" in NoCal
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