Ben and Terry
by maryrose on Feb 16, 2009 11:17 AM EST
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PrintI have purposely waited to write a story about Terry Bradshaw and Ben Roethlisberger, speaking of them in the same breath, out of deference to the fact that Bradshaw pocketed four Super Bowl rings and completed his career. Ben is still young. In fairness to Terry's full body of work, I avoided comparing Ben to Brad. But now with two Lombardis in less than half a career, It is time to give Ben his due. He still has work to do, but he has earned the right to be mentioned with the Blonde Bomber, and I don't take this lightly. I will use Terry in the present tense here just for the sake of parallel writing.
Both Ben and Terry came from second-tier college programs. Ben was recruited early by Miami of Ohio's Terry Hoeppner before he was even a quarterback. Hoeppner had him throwing at his summer camps and foresaw greatness. When Ben finally did play quarterback in high school, his senior season, Hoeppner offered him a scholarship after the first game. Ben told him he would go to Miami, and even after all the big boys began chasing him after his senior season, he remained loyal to his word. Terry was equally courted by Louisiana Tech coach Maxie Lambright before LSU came-a-calling. Lambright foresaw greatness before the others. Terry was pressured by many to go to LSU, but his loyalty to Lambright could not be broken. He went so far as to bomb an LSU entrance exam just so people would get off his back and let him enjoy his comfort zone with Lambright. Both Ben and Terry called their college coach "my second father."
Both Ben and Terry came to the Steelers after a string of unsuccessful quarterbacks frustrated the fan base to the point of pulling out hair. Ben followed Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddux. Terry followed Ed Brown, Kent Nix and Dick Shiner. Fans of the 60s vividly remember Ed Brown completely blowing a game against the Giants in 1963 that would have put the Steelers in the championship game. Fans of the 90s vividly remember Neil O'Donnell completely blowing a Super Bowl. Steeler fans were thirsting for a quarterback savior, and both Ben and Terry became just that.
Both Ben and Terry came to the Steelers after a long streak of team frustration. The Steelers were awful for a generation before Bradshaw, with the exception of a few Bobby Layne years. The Steelers were competitive before Roethlisberger, but frustrating in that they just couldn't get over the hump in the Cowher years pre-Ben. In both cases the fans were foaming at the mouth when the quarterback arrived.
Both Ben and Terry lost their first AFC Championship Game, in Pittsburgh, against an AFC East team with a future Hall of Fame quarterback wearing number 12 (Griese, Brady). Both Ben and Terry won their second Super Bowl around the age of 27, Ben just prior to his birthday and Terry just after. Both won their first Lombardi by managing the game and milking the lead. Both won their second Lombardi when managing the game was not enough. They came through big-time in their second Super Bowl, even though their wide receiver came away with the game's MVP.
Both Ben and Terry are flippant with remarks to the media. Ben finds himself in constant quandry over injury reporting. It seems like the media knows more about Ben's health than the team does. The team finds itself scratching its collective head after hearing what Ben says to the media, trying to give them something to write about. Terry used to feel sorry for individual writers who were looking for something fresh, so he would tell different things to different writers. When stories came out in the paper, the team would scratch its collective head. They just never knew what their quarterback was going to say next.
Both Ben and Terry have a flair for dramatics. They truly didn't mean to put themselves in harm's way, but somehow harm's way is the street they live on. Bradshaw got carried off the field against the Browns when Joe Turkey Jones spiked him to the ground. Steelers fans were dreading him not making the playoffs, but there he was in the end when it mattered. Roethlisberger got carried off the field against the Browns when they drilled him to the ground. Steelers fans were dreading him not making the playoffs, but there he was in the end when it mattered. Bumps, bruises, knocks, dings, limpin, gimpin, you name it, for both Ben and Terry, it is a football way of life.
Both Ben and Terry have great arms inside the pocket, and great legs getting out of the pocket and making a great play. Time and time again. Both are hard to get on the ground, somehow spinning freely and making plays only they could make, sending Steeler Nation into a frenzy. They both hold the ball too long, or do they?
Both Ben and Terry are hypersensitive individuals. The Ken Whisenhunt catfight, while overblown, was fueled by Ben's sensitivity nonetheless. When asked why Roethlisberger had a down year in 2006, Whisenhunt gave the perfect answer by deflecting to the motorcycle accident, appendectomy and concussion. Ben was somehow offended by the only good answer Whiz could have given. Ben also likes to remind everyone that 10 teams passed him by in the 2004 NFL Draft, as if he were the Michael Jordan of the NFL. Privately, it is quite alright for Ben to use whatever he likes for motivation. Publicly, he needs to get off that horse.
Terry was just as sensitive. His relationship with Chuck Noll was destined to be strained from the very beginning. Terry needed tender loving care and positive reinforcement from his coach, and was not going to get either from Mr. Spock. The two were oil and water. While Bradshaw's sensitivity is partly to blame for strange bedfellows, Noll could have done a much better job understanding his role as a leader and adapting to different personalities. Bradshaw also suffered from Attention Deficit Disorder and later with Depression, a one-way ticket to sensitivityville.
Both Ben and Terry are tough as nails. If you are going to play quarterback in a town synonymous with steel, you need to have skin made of leather, bones made of iron, and a head hard enough to win any battle it gets into. After watching Turkey Jones and a windshield both fail to conquer the noggin of a Steeler quarterback, that is the guy I want lining up over my center.
Neither Ben nor Terry give a tinker's damn about statistics. There is a convoluted notion out there that when a quarterback "manages a game" he is not good enough to win it. This notion is an insult to guys like Bob Griese, Troy Aikman and Bart Starr, who "managed" themselves into the Hall of Fame, and Joe Namath, who "managed" the greatest Super Bowl upset of all time. There are times in football games when managing them is the call to order, and other times when risk-taking and heroics are called upon. Both Ben and Terry always set the individual aspects of the game aside and did what was needed, both with management and with heroics. Statistics be damned. Give me the ring, baby.
Ben and Terry are the two greatest quarterbacks in Steelers history. Ben is halfway to Canton. Terry is there waiting. On one hand they are worlds apart, one from the North Coast and the other from the South Coast, separated by culture and a couple of generations. But on the other hand, it is remarkable how much the two have in common.
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Wow
I’m always interested in the historical perspective. I’m struck by your statement, “Ben and Terry are the two greatest quarterbacks in Steelers history.” I know that there wasn’t much in the way of QBing before Bradshaw but was surprised that none can beat out Ben.
Don’t take that as a hit on Ben either, I’m a huge fan and wouldn’t trade him. His career is still early and I don’t know the history well enough to say if he’s one of the best. I wasn’t sure if there were any great QBs during the dark years that have been forgotten because the team around them wasn’t up to snuff or something.
by Chicago Steeler on Feb 16, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions
Certainly Bobby Layne and Jim Finks were really good
In fact, Layne is a Hall of Famer with three championship rings, but they all were won with the Lions. Layne’s best years were in Detroit and then he played his last five in Pittsburgh. If Layne had stayed just one more year (1963) I think we would have beaten the Giants in that last game and then played in the title game against the Bears, a team we tied 17-17 earlier. I’m digressing, but the point is, Layne was only with us for five years, his last five, and you certainly have to give the nod to Ben comparing five years to five years.
Finks was the fourth best QB in Steelers history, IMO, and was with us for seven years. He did make the Hall of Fame, but not as a player.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Do you count the ones we let get away?
It was before I was a fan… but if you look at the Quarterbacks we let get away (and this was BEFORE Free agency!) it is quite a list…
Johnny Unitas 1955
Jack Kemp 1957
Len Dawson 1957
Bobby Layne 1958
And, as far as I’m concerned, we should put Dan Marino on this list. Dan was injured and didn’t play in his senior year, so many people didn’t know what he could do — but Pittsburgh knew. There wasn’t a fan in the ‘Burgh who wasn’t screaming for us to draft Marino.
Instead we took Gab Rivera (OK, a good pick, even though it ended tragically) But still… what might have been had we had #13 follow #12 in the 80s?
I only count quarterbacks' productivity wearing black and gold.
Actually Layne joined us in ‘58 and retired a Steeler after the 1962 season, but his five years with us were not as good as Ben’s five years with us. Layne was already a Hall of Famer when he joined us. Gosh don’t get me started on the ones that got away. There’s not enough mega-somethings on this website…But it certainly extends the conversation!
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Awesome write up
It’s fun to be reminded of TB as a Steeler QB rather than the TV personality. Also, living 30 minutes from La Tech I get more of him as a college athlete than NFL.
Couple ponderations
Firstly I love the phrase “one-way ticket to sensitivityvile”
And secondly, I cant say I’ve ever heard of the North Coast… Surely you must be referring to Michigans Upper Peninsula?
North Coast
Is any state with a main border on a Great Lake. Ben’s actually from Northwestern Ohio, easy distance from Lake Erie and close to Michigan. There’s actually a small-college conference called the North Coast Athletic Conference.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Franchise QB
Great post Rose. You’ve articulated a comparison that has also crossed my mind since #7 earned his second ring.
I become a Steeler fan as a wee lad during the 70’s, and #12 was my favorite player. His toughness and clutch play made such a huge impression this young fan and turned me into a lifelong Steelers diehard.
I wasn’t sure I knew what it meant for the organization when Coach C referred to #7 as a franchise QB, due to lack of such a player during the twenty plus years between #12 and #7. Even when Ben had such great success early on and Parcells compared #7 to Marino, it still didn’t sink in completely…. is it really happening? Do our beloved Steelers finally have another great one under center? Is he the type a player that one would call a savior, as you put it? After tearing up the 05 post season it was starting to appear so.
I watched the great Steelers over the years, (mostly D) and there were a few that I thought highly of. Woodson, Lake, Kirkland, Lloyd, Greene, Gildon. But it wasn’t until right before the 08 season I had come to realize that I again had a favorite Steeler, and that player was #7. Though I’m not usually one to pick favorites of anything, this guy was special. Sure he has his flaws, has good games and bad, yet after watching him develop through four years I was convinced he possessed the intangibles of a winner, which happens to be what makes him a franchise QB for a club that has set the standard for winning. Watching him play in NOV, DEC, and JAN of this year I saw how much he reminded me of #12. And given the four rings that Bradshaw owns, that it really saying something. Thanks for bringing this up Rose.
Interesting Post - I'd also like to see one about the contrasts
I have thought more than once about the similarities… they are both big, hard to bring down, and fit the Steelers image of what a QB should be.
There are significant differences though… Although both were taken in the first round, Ben was taken as the 11th pick — Terry was picked number one in the whole draft. As such, there was a lot more pressure being put on him when he arrived.
Terry’s Steelers were horrible — they had the first pick of the draft for a reason. They had gone 1-13. The year before, they were no better having gone 2-11. They were the Detroit Lions of their day.
Ben’s Steelers were much better. They were coming off of a bad year (for them) finishing 6-10 in 2003 (the year they drafted him) but in 2002, they were 10-5-1 and had won the division.
So, Ben had more to work with, I think. Although, Bradshaw did eventually get Swann and Stallworth. I know Hines has set all Steelers records, but I still have to give an edge to those guys. I simply cannot remember Swann EVER dropping a pass thrown his way. And Stallworth was equally good on the other side (though not as poetic).
Also, I’d take Terry’s arm any day. Ben does not have the same arm strength.
Escapability is hard to say, because Bradshaw had different rules then — in some ways it was easier to escape. But Terry was more inclined to escape and run than Ben is. I think Ben is probably more elsuive.
But… this is interesting stuff…
Wonderful story
Congratulations Maryrose on a great piece of writing. Loved the historical analogies of their development and backgrounds. My favorite line " …. harm’s way is the street they live on." Exactly so. If anything, “Harm’s Way” is in a more dangerous part of town than when Terry was around, because Ben’s neighbors (the offensive line) are nowhere near as helpful now when the bad guys show up.
I loved Terry’s approach to the game when he played and Ben is the same. They are tough competitors who have their eyes on the prize, not their stats.
Great write-up
Good stuff, again, maryrose. I have read two books written by Terry Bradshaw. I read his autobiography in the 80s when I was a teenager, and based on it, I had a less favorable impression of Noll than I think he deserved. Having seen all 4 of the America’s Games on the 70s teams, it’s clear that the other players really had a lot of respect, and even affection, for Noll. As you said, I think Bradshaw just wasn’t mature enough yet when he drafted, and he was overly sensitive. He even said that he was really just a big kid. That probably has a lot to do with how long it took him to become the great that he became.
Ben seems to have a better relationship with his coach and the city than Bradshaw did.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 16, 2009 9:31 PM EST reply actions
O'Donnell
Great write-up, MR. I’m often struck by the similarities between the two. There’s something sort of cool about the fact that the two great Steeler QBs are so connected.
My only quibble is with your harsh assessment of Neil O’Donnell. He was brilliant that Super Bowl season, and did have some other good seasons…He threw some tragic INTs in the Bowl, and of course that’s unacceptable, but, given how few he threw over the course of that season, I think it’s really very likely that the receivers had a lot to do w/ it. He certainly wasn’t an all-timer like BB and Terry, but he was, for the most part, a winner, and I don’t think he should be included in with the list of other “unsuccessful” QBs.
O'Donnell's INTs
I think you’re right, in that (IIRC), the receiver was supposed to read the blitz and break off his route, which O’Donnell expected him to do. However, the blitz was picked up both times, so O’Donnell didn’t have to get rid of it so quick. It was a combination of QB-WR miscommunication and a good read by Larry Brown. Or, Jerry Jones paid both O’Donnell and Brown to have those plays at opportune times, whichever. :)
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Feb 16, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Corey Holliday
Neil O’Donnell did not lose that Cowboys Super Bowl, something I still hear fans whine about (just a few weeks ago at a Chinese restaurant, even…).
The second interception, which sealed the game, was Corey Holliday’s fault. The Cowboys blitzed and O’Donnell threw to the hot receiver, Holliday.
Holliday, who caught a whopping ONE pass in this three season Steeler (and NFL) career, totally oblivious to the blitz, was streaking up the field. Larry Brown, simply stepped up and took the pass, which was thrown to where Holliday should have been.
Holliday shouldn’t even have been on the field in the Super Bowl, let alone had a key assignment late in the game. That was the coaching staff’s fault.
Steeler fans need to quit ragging on O’Donnell. He was the only QB to get them to a Super Bowl in a 25 year period and if Larry Brown hadn’t had the best game of his life (he washed out of the NFL after only three more seasons), Pittsburgh would have gotten another ring. O’Donnell’s biggest fault was being stupid and taking big money to go to the Jets.
Whaaaa?
Man…I don’t get it FWP is no good for us, but Neil “the Choaker” O’Donnell gets the pass?
I have rarely been so disappointed with a singular performance in my life. Of course the QB position has a lot of pressure on it, and I was one of the folks pulling for Neil all the way when he was with us, but that game was down to his decision to throw that ball into an area without a Steeler in sight… repeatedly. I get what you’re saying that Holliday screwed up the route royaly, but you have to have vision as a QB right? Did he just assume? Why would he assume on the pass catching skills of someone who only had caught one pass? Grrrrrrr…..
The thing I agree with you on is that he shouldn’t have gone to the Jets. I’m not a ride’em out of town on a rail type. That put the icing on the cake in my mind that he didn’t come back to the team and redeem some of that, but perhaps it was a mutual decision at that point.
I agree that he was a good QB for us all the way up to those interceptions, but to put him into the class with Terry and Ben… can’t go there.
Now on the flip side, don’t you think some of FWP’s struggles have been down to the line issues? Just a strange juxtaposition IMO.
Liked Tommy a lot, but that year of the shuffling O-line in 2003 (sacked 41 timess behind a porous line while we went to a pass first offense – sound familiar?) did him in. If he would have been a younger guy, maybe Ben doesn’t get his big chance, but who can say.
Slash…I didn’t hate the guy, but just never thought he should be the QB. Loved him as that unsure option guy…at QB, not so much.
You can certainly make a case for O'Donnell
In fact, he was 39-22 as a starter for the Steelers, an outstanding record. Those were back in the days when Foster and Bam Morris were behind a great offensive line and just pounding teams into submission. O’Donnell’s best season was 17 touchdown passes. He left us in the prime of his career and never made a splash elsewhere, never topped those 17 touchdowns. But the bottom line in my mind was that I never felt in my bones that we could win it all with O’Donnell, Stewart or Maddox. In my mind “successful” means that I feel like the guy can really lead us. I have only felt that with three guys: Layne (even though it never happened), Bradshaw and Ben. Of course, 39-22 is indeed successful as well. I can’t argue that.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
If I recall correctly, O’Donnell was voted the Steeler MVP that season, and I think there was no doubt that he was. He was a great competitor, was very consistent, made some incredible throws, and had a remarkably low interception rate. I really think we COULD have won it all with him — the line between winning that SB (against a favored Cowboy team) and losing was so incredibly thin.
Clearly that year was a case of a good player peaking at the right time and place; once he was away from the Steeler system he reverted to “OK, but…” As I said, he wasn’t in the same class as BB and Terry, but I’ll always have a soft spot for him.
Sad but True
Remember that Neil grew a playoff beard the year we went to the Super Bowl?
After he threw that first interception, one of the broadcasters commented: “You can put a beard on him… but he’s still Neil O’Donnell…”
I liked O'Donnell but ...
I liked him for most of his five years as the starter because he finally brought some stability and consistency to the position and was an important piece of a contending but ultimately unsuccessful team. In many ways he was an anti-Bradshaw (and later anti-Ben) type of quarterback. He wasn’t a great athlete. He was cerebral more than physical. He would throw the ball out of bounds or in the dirt when he felt pressure. He couldn’t extend plays and make something happen out of nothing. And championship opportunities didn’t produce a heightened level of performance. He never inspired the kind of confidence that Terry generated and Ben does when big games were on the line.
It wasn’t just the Super Bowl. The year before, in the 1994 AFC championship at home against San Diego, O’Donnell put up some big passing numbers but didn’t get the job done when it counted: long drives that ended in field goals and a potential game-winning drive that ended with a fourth-down incompletion from the three-yard line. If he throws an accurate pass, then Barry Foster probably makes a TD catch. They would have played San Francisco in the Super Bowl, setting up a matchup of four-time SB champions. As it was the 49ers hammered the Chargers to get their fifth and O’Donnell made his contribution to the Cowboys winning their fifth the next year. By the way Mark I thought it was Andre Hastings, not Holliday, whjo made the wrong read on the blitz that led to O’Donnell’s final pick to to Brown. Lots of blame to go around though. In the third quarter a long drive ended with a FG and a drive preceding the final fateful interception ended on downs around midfield.
Overall I don’t think there was much difference between O’Donnell and Kordell Stewart in terms of contribution to “team success”, as defined by winning when it counts. Totally different quarterbacks but their records were similar (Kordell, 46-29; O’Donnell, 39-22). The Steelers were better overall in the early 90s than in the late 90s and O’Donnell didn’t get in the way of a run-dominant winning team; Stewart went through a number of different offensive coordinators and was horribly inconsistent with less talent around him, but made huge contributions in the two years the team got to the AFC title game. Both made the Pro Bowl once as Steelers QBs. Both were named team MVPs once. Both led their teams to two AFC championship games. Both came up short when it counted. Both suffered through a lot of unwarranted professional and personal criticism in the wake of team defeats. When they left the Steelers, neither did anything close to what they accomplished in Pittsburgh. So, long-winded as always but I would put both O’Donnell and Stewart on the same level of “success”, well below Terry and Ben but significantly above all the other QBs we have gone through in the modern era.
oops, sorry mark
My thoughts on the SB interception should have been directed not to you but to upabob, who attributed the misread to Holliday.
Loved the post MR
Hadn’t considered many of the similarities that these two shared. But I do have to point out some differences that are pretty significant.
Ben hasn’t really been tested by failure and hard times as Bradshaw was. Brad went through five really tough years and was replaced as starter during the Steelers’ first SB run. (Joe Gilliam started the first six games, and Terry Hanratty also started). When you combine his sensitivity with the utter lack of compassion that Steeler Nation has toward anything short of perfect QB perform (RE: Lifer’s post, and others), then I’m forced to conclude that Brad has been tested in ways that Ben hasn’t so far. With the exception of his motorcycle acumen Ben has been blessed with being surrounded with great talent and one sub playoff year in his career. It is possible that he may never play on a truly bad team while he is a Steeler. However, expectations do rise to meet performance and it is very possible that in a year or two that a season like last year’s will be viewed as far less than just a mere disappointment. The question then will how will Ben react when Steeler fans decide to hate in the manner that only Steeler fans can hate their QBs.
While both are drama queens, Brad was on an entirely different order than Ben. When Brad got hurt in games it often looked as though he would have to be taken back into the tunnel and shot for compassion’s sake. Then he would usually be back on the next series as if nothing had happened to him. Ben seems to be more like Clemente. Consistently complaining about afflictions, and then branded a hypochrondiac when his performance doesn’t suffer
by Ivan Cole (RickVa) on Feb 18, 2009 7:28 PM EST reply actions
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