First Round Oline Talent - A Post That is Far Too Long
So, we find ourselves in the No Man’s Land of the football year – stuck in the offseason between the multi-multimillion dollar opening days of free agency and the 2009 NFL draft. As football fans, it’s a fairly boring period. And, might I add, particularly boring for Steelers fans. Seeing as the Rooney’s rarely make a big splash in free agency and have the tendency to keep their opinions as to the draft pretty close to their chest, most of us have nothing else to do other than complain about the impending loss of our own free agents (see McFadden, Bryant), the need resign upcoming free agents (see Harrison, James & Miller, Heath), and wonder what second- or third-tier free agent we might be able to pick up. Oh, that and look at endless and oftentimes ill informed mock drafts. Indeed, it’s almost enough to make you want to sign up for the NFL network just to NFL Replays on a Sunday afternoon (Disclaimer: I am actually watching NFL Reply right now, God help me).
In order to pass the time then, I thought I might speculate on what might happen with our (barely) first-round pick at 32. Of course, I am no more informed than anyone else, but having done some research in the last few weeks I thought I might offer a few opinions and hopefully open up some thoughtful discussion (with a sense of history, of course). In particular, I am interested if there will be any lineman –OT, G, or C – worthy of our number 32.
Now I understand that our first rounder might very well not go to rebuilding an offensive line that is, at best, frustratingly adequate in its best moments. It could very well also go to a CB (there’s been considerable discussion about Alfonso Smith for this pick), to bolster our aging Dline (one could dream Tyson Jackson would be available), or if a monster WR happened to fall – although this doesn’t seem to me to be a position of need that ought to be looked at this early in the draft. That is, again a top rated monster falls to us. It seems highly unlikely that we would be interested in a Safety, QB, RB, TE or OLB here (although if a monster ILB falls to us I wouldn’t see us passing just because it’s an ILB – Farrior isn’t getting any younger and Foote is on the last year of his contract). It seems most likely that we will take the highest rated OT, G, C, CB, or DL available at 32, with a slight bias in favor of the positions in the trenches.
The Offensive lineman we could realistically draft at 32 might include OT’s William Beatty (UConn) and Eben Britton (Arizona); Guards Duke Robinson (Oklahoma) and Andy Levitre (Oregon State); and Centers Alex Mack(Berkley) and Max Unger (UOregon). I think it possible that a tackle such as Michael Oher (of The Blind side fame)could fall into the 20’s, making it possible to trade up for him without giving away the whole draft – although I would also find it hard to believe that he would get past Philly at 21, although the fall of Andre Smith may push Oher down as well since Oher is seen as a less polished talent than Smith.
My initial thought is to pass on Beatty outright. He’s a one-year wonder at UConn who only started to show up to games this last year – coincidently right before he would declare for the draft. While he had a fine Senior Bowl, I still question his work ethic as well as the pride he might bring to the position – if he is okay taking plays off we’re no better off with him than with our current roster. Also, as some folks on here have mentioned before, I am a bit skeptical that our current Oline or Oline coach have the ability to motivate new guys. It seems like whoever we draft for this line will have to be a great self-motivator, he’ll need the kind of motor to keep going no matter what the attitudes of those around him. Beatty just doesn’t seem like that sort of guy to me.
Britton is a tougher case to decide. He’s played solidly his entire career, but might lack the athletic ability to make it at LT in the NFL (unlike someone like Oher who has tons of physical ability, but might lack the mental toughness/quickness to be a great LT). Most analysts argue that he projects at an RT in the NFL, although as we all know RT is a position of weakness for us. I have no qualms about taking an RT in the first round, but I don’t want to take a lesser athlete at RT than we could get at G or C simply because there’s a run on tackles in the first round. We could get a quality RT in Day 2 of the draft. And, besides, the Coaches have yet to see the wisdom of moving Colon to Guard and I doubt they would with the addition of Britton. Combine that with our tendency to more or less “redshirt” our draft picks for a year, it seems unlikely that if we picked up Britton he would start before next season anyway. There is also the Tony Hills experiment to consider, who if he develops properly could take the job after Colon’s current contract is up. So, I say we pass on Britton – I think we could get a comparable talent later in the draft that would play well with a year of conditioning/practice with the team.
On to Guard. This, as almost everyone recognizes, is a poor draft for guards. There is some quality depth, but there is probably no elite guard in the draft. Or, alternatively, there probably isn’t a huge talent gap between the top 10 guards going in this year – or at least not as much as you would hope. I remain unconvinced that either Robinson or Levitre is first round material. Robinson plays well as a run blocker in a power scheme – he’s a rhino in a phone booth as some say - but he lacks the technique to be a great pass protector, and lacks the speed/coordination to do much pulling - a skill that is essential to be a good guard in the Steelers running scheme. Robinson is also said to have a soft body (a bit too flabby for a power blocker) and doesn’t possess the kind of fundamental’s to rely on if he gets “out physical-ed” by an opposing player. Robinson is aggressive at least, which may make him an upgrade over Simmons. But I also don’t think a slight upgrade over Simmons is what we want out of a first rounder lineman, especially at guard. Levitre is a pick I could probably live with since he is big, technically sound, and appears mentally tougher than Robinson. He played left tackle at Oregon State, so he has the kind of speed, footwork, and athleticism to develop into a pulling guard. This is not to say that he would develop into another Fanaca, but he might be a more than serviceable left guard for the next 10 years. Still, I think we could get greater value for our pick with one of the top centers. That being said though, if we pass on this guy at the end of the first it’s obvious that he won’t be there at the end of the second. Robinson, however, just might. And as a second rounder he would be of great value.
Unlike the class of guards, the center class is one of the strongest in a number of years, with at least 3 possible first day selections available (Mack, Unger, and Louisville’s Eric Wood). Of the three top centers, only Mack and Unger deserve first round consideration – Wood is a going to have a great pro career, but for different reasons Mack and Unger could be impact players for a decade on whatever team they fall to. If we decide to pass on the centers, Wood may still be available at the end of the second and if he is, we should strongly consider him a bargain there.
Mack is a big, strong three year starter from Berkley. Most of you are familiar enough with Mack to know that he is considered by some to be the strongest center in the draft and perhaps the best center to come out in the last five years or so. However, looking through a number of Mock Drafts/Scouting organizations, there appears to be no consensus as to who the top center is. While Mack is lauded as being a mentally tough, tenacious, play to the whistle brawler, Unger is praised for his versatility and obvious physical skills. They are of similar size (although Mack is a little heavier) and have both excelled in their respective schools. My preference, however, is for Mack. In what follows I’ll attempt to make my argument.
Unger is a fine athlete, and while I would not be upset if we went with him over Mack, he seems a worse fit for us than Mack. First, the issue of strength is an issue with Unger – he only put up 22 reps at 225 at the Combine (Eric Wood, for instance, put up 30). While I am not sold on the notion that Combine drills predict much about professional success (work ethic and selflessness seem to both matter the most and be immeasurable) , it does demonstrate that Unger is one of the weaker Olinemen this year. Of course, his functional strength may be much higher, there is certainly a difference between benching and pushing around a big nosetackle, this still tells us that he was not much of a workout warrior in college. It may also demonstrate that he faced a lot of smaller, quicker DT’s in college in which his strength mattered much less than his feet. However, against big AFC north nosetackles like Rogers and Ngata, strength as well as technique will be absolutely necessary in order to open up running lanes and protect Ben. While Unger can certainly bulk up, it seems like he may also need to learn how to play with both power and finesse. Again, this is possible, but Mack seems to be more naturally suited to take on Ngata on 4th and short than Unger.
Another concern I have regarding Unger is his football IQ. Next to the QB, the Center should have the highest football IQ on the team – he should be able to pick up blitzes, audible blocking assignments, and generally command the line of scrimmage like Macarthur. Jeff Hartings, a great center in his day, never possessed the physical skills of someone like Dermontti Dawson, but was gangbusters at reading defensive schemes and making last second adjustments. The decline in our line play from 2006 to 2007 was not entirely because of Mahan lacked Hartings physical gifts (although he did, of course), but also because he lacked his intelligence on the field. Unger comes from a spread offensive and the whole point of the spread is to make the defense your facing declare themselves early – when you’ve got four WR’s lining up with a QB in shotgun you know that you won’t have much of a chance to disguise your defense since, if they are out of position, the offensive will burn you. Therefore you give up on the idea of disguise and simply play personal – you bet that your corner can cover their receiver; your linebacker can cover their tight end etc. However, since there is never a disguise to a defense your QB doesn’t need to attempt to decipher blitzes or coverage schemes – they are all easily seen from back in the shotgun position. This is one reason that spread QB’s have a hard time making it in the NFL, they lack the experience at trying to ferret out what a defense is doing. The same, it seems to me, might apply to a center in the spread; since it is already apparent what a defense is going to do they rarely find it necessary to spend much time developing their recognition skills. And, as we all know, a confused Oline is a recipe for Ben to be decapitated by Terrell Suggs. Even a line with marginal upside – like our current one – could be greatly improved if they were given good adjustments and accurate assignments.
Mack comes from a style of offense that is closer to the NFL’s and, might I add, has received the Draddy Trophy which is given to the top scholar athlete in college football. You can do worse than have a big, strong, high motor center, with a better than average IQ, going up against Ngata and a Ravens defense that prides itself on disguise. Mack certainly has shortcomings to his game – he ends up on his back too often and lacks the speed of someone like Unger – but his determination and IQ could make him the centerpiece of the new offensive line that will almost certainly be created after the current one blown up after this year. Mack could make an immediate impact as a guard (or at least compete with the Stappler) and slide over to center next year. This, of course, doesn’t mean we couldn’t resign Hartwing if we wanted since he could naturally slide into the guard spot himself (where he started).
In any event, of the lineman I’ve mentioned it seems as if Mack has the most upside and could also make an immediate impact upon the play of the line. There are good arguments to be made for them all – although I think Robinson is better left to somebody in the second round – but Mack has the skills and determination to be the guard of the present and the center of the future.
Obviously this is too long, but it seemed like a good way to pass a Sunday afternoon and hopefully get some conversation going.
Thoughts?
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Comments
centers
why draft a center in the first round? How about this…trade up to get tyson Jackson in the first round…then take shipley in the later rounds…heres why, shippley is very strong with bench press, short arms for close contact with the NTs in our division, he is short, which gives BB easier sight over his head and he is a pittsburgh guy…we can get him in the 4th round if necessary…
by nycsteelerfan on Mar 15, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re right that there is a lot of depth at Center this year and while Shipley is a bit undersized, he has tremendous drive and intelligence – a center that might be in the Jeff Saturday line. In the 4th or 5th round he would be of tremendous value. However, he does lack the versatility that comes with Mack/Unger/Wood’s size – they could all potentially be made into guards (or a RT with Unger). Shipley is really a bit too small for a guard or tackle.
Of course, if we’re serious about commiting to a zone blocking scheme then Shipley or even Lugis might be a great selection.
And D line has got to be a priority this year. I wouldn’t be surprised if the first pick went to it. However, outside of Casey Hampton we’ve been fairly adept at getting value out of later round picks – A Smith and Keisel being prime examples. Still, if Jackson falls to the early-mid 20’s he’ll be really tempting.
by BluegrassSteeler on Mar 15, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need help anywhere we can get it on the o-line
We don’t need to be picky. It’s not like we simply need tackles. Hartwig was our best and most consistent lineman last year, but his contract is up in a year or two.
Any Center we pick will be Guard capable. As much as I dislike Unger we may take him because he can play 4 positions on the line. Shipley is definitely an option in the later rounds, but i wouldn’t be suprised if they took him and a C/G with the 1st pick.
I don’t think we trade up in the first in this draft. Too expensive when we have too many needs. We’ll want the freedom to move around in 2-5 to get solid value picks.
by syrsteelerfan on Mar 15, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hartwig
Gave up more sacks than any other center in the league last year, according to a previous post that I cannot find to save my life right now. It had a complete breakdown of all olinemen across the league and how many sacks each allowed.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 20, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here ya go....
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/2/11/756159/offensive-line-statistics
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by drinkyourmilkshake on Mar 20, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool...
My plan to say I couldn’t find it, and never actually look, and hope someone is kind enough to help me out worked. Thanks!
Kidding of course.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Mar 20, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eric Wood
Disagree about him. I like Mack more as a center, but haven’t read much about how he would perform as a guard. But i liked the look of Wood at the combine and watching highlights of the senior bowl practices, and Jim Wexell – BTSC’s favorite Steelers beat writer – loves him.
He could play all interior line positions, he’s a strong run-blocker, good pass protector, smart, and tough (holds the record for consecutive games played at Louisville). He also performed very well at the combine. Great combination of size, smarts, strength, and toughness.
I’d love him or Mack but not Unger at 1.32. Read somewhere that the Eagles are looking at him at 1.28.
by syrsteelerfan on Mar 15, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 rec'd
A great read. I dont think it is too long at all. Keep up the good work
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on Mar 16, 2009 4:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Oher?
According to SI.com (not always the most reliable source), Michael Oher could drop all the way into the second round due to some unspecified “red flags.” Most other mocks have Oher as the fourth OT taken, and usually in the top 20 picks. Any idea what the problems are with Oher? Would we jump on him if he is available at 1.32?
BTW, the SI.com mock has five teams drafting OT in the first round before the Steelers pick, including the Eagles at 1.28. If this is the case, we could have a shot at Oher or Britton by trading up slightly above the Eagles. Alternatively, if we stay at 1.32, we could take the best C or, if the Eagles pick a C, we still get Oher or Britton. Still, I’d like to have a prearranged deal that would get us above the Eagles, maybe for our third- or fourth-round pick, so we could be sure to get the O-lineman we want.
by Steelin on Mar 16, 2009 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oher is all upside – he’s probably the most athletically gifted, natural LT in the draft. If he could become a bit more mentally consistent he would be a huge steal at the end of the 1st. But that’s a big if. Still, if he’s there past the eagles then I think you take a shot and trade up for him. He really can’t be anymore inconsistent than our current RT.
And the Eagles will take a tackle in the 1st – I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they traded way up in it in order to get one they’re completely sold on (remember they have two picks in the first – that’s some serious bait). They don’t have Tra Thomas anymore, and have never been able to get comfortable with the backup Justice – who coincidently was kind of the Oher of his draft, physically gifted but mentally inconsistent.
by BluegrassSteeler on Mar 16, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with BGS. The only sure thing at tackle this year is Monroe, with J. Smith still a fairly safe bet with a bit more upside. Oher is very athletically gifted, but isn’t the brightest crayon, and needs to work on his technique. It’s funny, he has hype because of “The Blind Side”, so people are either incredibly drawn to him because of the nice story or irrationally turned away from him. We’d have to be mad to pass on him at 1.32, though. So would the Eagles at 1.28.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Mar 17, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still say mack goes to the Vikings
I know they picked some kid in the second round like two years ago to replace Birk, but Mack can be the next Birk.
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on Mar 17, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You may be right...
The Vikes could go with Mack, but 22 would be awfully high to go center (although Mack may very well be worth it). The depth at the center position this year may help us out though, since by the time they draft in the second Wood, at least, should still be around and he has almost as much potential as Mack or Unger.
And it seems as if the Vikes were pretty comfortable letting Birk go in the first place, I think they like the kid they have now.
by BluegrassSteeler on Mar 17, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is some really good information. My OL post is coming soon as well. A couple things:
Unger has played every postion on the line, and even though he was running some zone-spread, he has shown that he can excel at every one of those positions. He actually strikes me as the smartest of the centers, although all three at the top will be fine. I also think he has plenty of sand in pants to stand up to NT’s (despite his BP’s) and he might be a better fit in our zone blocking scheme than Mack, assuming we’re not scrapping it.
The biggest thing I see is that the draft is incredibly deep at C and OT, so we can easily afford to trade down or pick another position with our first rounder, unless we get a sweet deal. I’d be a lot more excited about Unger in the early second than the first.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Mar 17, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Curious about your Loadholt value
Looking forward to your OL value chart BMF. One of the intriguing OT prospects is massive Oklahoma LT Phil Loadholt. I think he is being downgraded because he is not projected as a good LT in the NFL. He was burned a lot at the Senior Bowl because of his lack of quickness. However, is there a better prospect at RT, especially in terms of the running game? Loadholt is not the athlete that the top LTs are, but neither is he an immobile tub of lard. He is a better prospect than Starks was coming out of college and I can see him having a long productive career and contributing to a better running game fairly quickly.
by steeler.lifer on Mar 18, 2009 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
From my observation
Duke Robinson was covering for this dudes mistakes all year. As a matter of fact Robinson covering for Loadholt and center (I think it was ) Griffin made some erroneously say he is a weak run blocker. I wouldn’t touch Loadholt until the 6th or 7th round.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
by PixburghArn on Mar 18, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robinson is a terrific athlete
For a guy his size, Robinson is a terrific athlete and very agile. Oklahoma was a strange team to watch at times because they could run the ball outside on traps and delays but generally ineffective (against good teams anyway) pounding it up the middle. They didn’t really have a power back either so that was a contributing factor. I saw numerous games where Robinson was waltzing around looking for someone to block and often not finding anyone. In pass blocking he was easily knocked off balance. He was also rotated with another guard (can’t remember his name) and the team didn’t miss a beat when he was not on the field. Against Texas, Loadholt was beaten like a drum by Orakpo and the same thing happened at the Senior Bowl in drills vs. faster DE/OLBs. Against Florida and a good d-line filled with athletes, Robinson had a terrible game and I thought Loadholt looked pretty solid. But admittedly he is one of those huge guys who is going to have people loving him or hating him. At right tackle I think he will be fine.
by steeler.lifer on Mar 18, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Loadholt really is a fine run blocker, but I question whether he’ll even be able to make it on the right side in pass pro. Generally the truly speedy guys stick to the left side of the offense, but even average LE’s in the NFL are a lot quicker than most guys in college. On top of that, 3-4 teams or just blitzing teams could find ways to exploit him. Woodley would destroy him, and what would keep teams from putting their best pass rusher on his shoulder in passing situations?
He’d still be a good value in rounds 2-3, but I don’t think he fit our run blocking scheme unless we go back to man blocking.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Mar 18, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever played
next to a guy that is lost? That is exactly what Robinson looked like. He looked like a guy that a coach asked to do a little more than what is mormally expected. Defenses know this. I am saying that in the NFL they won’t do that. I’m kind of cheating because I know a little bit about the situation but time will tell.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
by PixburghArn on Mar 18, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not on the line
I played flanker so I only had to deal with defensive backs who were lost, and that was a picnic. But I understand what you mean. As for Loadholt vs. Woodley, there isn’t a RT in the league that doesn’t have some problems. But a lot of Woodley’s success is a result of his strength and physical explosion so I think that would be a better matchup for Loadholt than against the first fast step and low body angle of Harrison. It really comes down to what kind of scheme we run and what we need to execute it. I can see Philadelphia liking Loadholt even in the first round, or Chicago in the mid-second. I think his upside is a little higher than many predict but obviously only time will tell.
by steeler.lifer on Mar 18, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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