BTSC Steelers Daily Six Pack- Winners & Losers Edition
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 3, 2009 11:00 AM EST
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PrintIX- Currently Behind the Steel Curtain is losing in the Best Pittsburgh Sports Blog Tournament. We are losing by a large margin and unless we have a comeback of epic proportions, we will lose in the Semi-Finals. We might need a signature game winning drive from Big Ben to win this one. Click Here to Vote for Behind the Steel Curtain.
X- Kellen Winslow Jr. of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and receiver Roy Williams of the Cowboys were the two players taken directly before Ben Roethlisberger in the 2004 draft. Kellen Winslow was taken by the Cleveland Browns who've had 9 starting quarterbacks since, and the Williams' was taken by the Lions who've had 5 starting quarterbacks since. Winslow and Williams have also both been traded recently and Dale Lolley explains why a "fine line separates winners from the losers."
XIII- Bruce Arians says that Limas Sweed, Martin Nance and a draft pick will be the key players expected to fight for the third wide receiver spot left vacant by Nate Washington's departure to Tennessee. It sounds like the Steelers might be thinking about going into training camp without signing a veteran wide out to compete for the third spot. It's also interesting that Arians didn't mention Dallas Baker in the article, I guess his time in Pittsburgh might be up.
XIV- Talks between James Harrison and the Steelers front office are starting to become tense. Today's article in the Tribune Review gives a very bleak view on the contract talks. It sounds to me like James Harrison is requesting a lot of money, not Albert Haynesworth money but at least DeAngelo Hall money.
XL- Bryant McFadden has been linked to practically every team in the NFL this offseason. Most recently he has been visiting the Arizona Cardinals, but Adam Schefter of NFL.com, along with BTSC, thinks that the Steelers are still interested.
XLIII- One for the other Thumb sent out a birthday wish for Ben Roethlisberger yesterday. Behind the Steel Curtain is a day late, but we surely wish him a happy belated birthday! Hopefully he used his birthday wish on a third Super Bowl victory.
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Sign Harrison to a long term deal......seriously!!!!!!!
When you have a proven player like that, you pay for him, bottom line.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
You haven’t been following the steelers for very long, have you?
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
Actually I have.
I know how things work, I know how they operate, I just really think they are making a mistake not paying this specific player!
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
I’m not saying this is the case, but if Harrison wants a $75 million 5-year deal with $20 million guaranteed do you sign him? The steelers will pay Harrison a lot of money, but his agent needs to realize that Harrison along with every other steeler is expendable. Most fans do too.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
Well, by that rational....
Ben is expendable too. We gave him 102, million, right? I feel Deebo is to the defense what Ben is to the offense. I’m not saying give him an Albert contract, but of corse they can expect to pay a bit more to keep the DPOY that appears to have a lot of juice left in him.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Ben is expendable. Our outside linebacker is not remotely comparable to our quarterback and neither are their ages. We won a superbowl without Deebo, we have not won a superbowl without a franchise QB.
The steelers have and will continue to offer a very good contract by their standards for sure, but if Harrison wants more than he is gone. The steelers will get something to done, but saying that any one player must be signed at all costs is just foolhardy. Fortunately for me, and for you, the Rooney’s are very good businessmen.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
agree with steelguy
Harrison is a beast, but the steelers have shown an amazing ability to plug and play linebackers like Denver used to do with RBs. With the core of linebackers we have and our ability to draft and train new ones, I don’t believe it worth it to break the bank on Harrison.
by Chicago Steeler on Mar 3, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
One other thing about Harrison
It took him, what, 4 years to break into the starting line-up, because it took him that long to figure out the defense. If he’s not re-signed this year, he’ll go get overpaid somewhere by a team that doesn’t realize it will take him a long time to learn his new scheme.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 3, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not how I understood the problem. Who knows for certain, but I got the impression Harrison simply didn’t want to do things the coaches were asking him to do. He thought he knew how he should be played better than the coaches. It was more of an attitude problem than an issue with learning.
Maybe, but I distinctly remember stories about his struggles. What they said was that he would tell them he didn’t know what he was supposed to do, and he’d get so frustrated (in practice or training camp, at this point) that he’d just yell and tell them to get him out.
There was also a story before the SB on TV, and I’m pretty sure that they said that the last two years, he was glad that he knew what he was supposed to be doing. His goal for next year was to know what the whole defense was supposed to be doing.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 3, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on
What it will cost when trying to get other players in. You have to wiegh all options. For example if you give him exactly what he wants, do you lose a chance at two others? Sort of like saying do I buy a Volvo and lose the house. I know, LAME, but that’s the best I could do.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
“It’ll be Limas, Martin Nance and whoever we draft, one of those cats,” Arians said.
Arians is the uncool balance to Tomlin.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
by steelguy99 on Mar 3, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
hahah...i agree
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 3, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
On the Voting
Sorry that you are losing in that poll… however, Pens Blog is a really good blog. When I saw which blog you were up against, I definitely hesitated for a second. BTSC and Pens Blog are the top 2 in my book…. Anyway, no shame in losing to Pens Blog. ;)
yeah
BTSC and Pens Blog are my two must read blogs everyday. It is amazing how far Pens Blog with their silly nicknames and photoshops go. When you hear players and announcers saying them its pretty incredible.
WE ARE LOOSING BIG WITH THE "PENS BLOG",
How that can be possible?, LOOSING AGAINST A HOCKEY NAMAED SITE,
I JUST DONT BELIEVE IT, they r good but, CAN WE COMEBACK AS IN THE SB VOTING POLE?
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
by YeOldeMexFan on Mar 3, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, from the radio…
“The steelers don’t owe him anything. If anything Harrison owes the steelers something. He could be in the project selling chickens if it weren’t for them.”
Man, I love the callers sometimes.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
That was a crackhead
calling in. He’s upset because he has to go two streets over because his dealer got laid off due to budget costs.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
CHICKENS? Don't talk about chickens! You kidding me? Chickens?
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
Actually
My bro-in-law bought some chicken and beef from Icky Woods in Cincy. Maybe that was Icky Woods calling in. LOL
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
I'd give Silverback a 4 year deal for 32Mil
with a team option for a 5th year and I would guarantee 16Mil. If Bart “OMG Hines Ward hit me” Scott got a 6 year deal for 48 Mil, I think that would be a pretty fair deal. Deebo is 30 years old and Scott is 28, so I doubt they do a 6 year deal. FO just please lock up the Silverback! PLEASE….
I like your deal (4yr/32mil), but I disagree with your sentiment.
If the Steelers don’t lock up Harrison, it’s not the end of the world. This is Pittsburgh. Dick Lebeau is still our D-Coordinator. This is still the best city in the league for linebackers.
Long story short, if we lose Harrison, we will have someone ready to take his place before too long.
Of course, if we lose Harrison, we will have to resign Farrior, or face a 2010 draft where we need to get two solid linebacker prospects.
In the end, I’d rather keep BMac than James Harrison. Good corners are so much more rare than good linebackers.
I had similar thoughts
We’ve got Harrison for peanuts next year. The following year, we’ve got Farrior, Woodley, Timmons, and either Foote or Fox. At that point, Deebo is still viable as a free agent, but definitely on the older side of the career scale. He’s going to lose some value.
Pittsburgh could always franchise Harrison next year and then let him walk the year after that…He would then be a 32 year old outside linebacker.
Perhaps there is some leverage on both sides…
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 3, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions
Very much so, especially since we have three franchise tags in the uncapped year.
The uncapped year is also a great time to franchise Harrison. Franchise him for $8 mil, some team with lots of money can sweep in, pay him big money, and give us two first round draft picks. We can also franchise him the next year I believe…
You don’t want a disgruntled player playing for you, so I’m sure it won’t come to that. But Harrison does not hold all the cards.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
They could franchise him a second time, and it would then be 110% of the average of the top 5 salaries at his position, i believe.
I would say let him walk at that point…no sense in having an agry deebo for too long.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 3, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Good stuff
Two things:
Man I feel bad for the Browns. They were so hopeful just a year ago, making what I thought were some solid personnel moves over the past several years and getting closer to being competitive. Now after one bad season, everything falls apart. New coach, new GM, no QB. They traded the wrong receiver, and their one sure thing, Shaun Rogers, wants to go somewhere else. Poor, stupid guys.
I also feel bad for Harrison. He’s made basically nothing up to this point in his career, but he’s under contract for about $2M for what could be the last year of his prime. We can’t give him a huge deal that will pay him $10M when he’s 37. We also have to see Timmons and Woodley as the future of our LB’s. If you add in the potential franchise tag we could give him until he’s not a pro bowler anymore, he’s got squat to work with. It also sounds like he has a shitty agent. Admitting that he came down and being upset that Colbert didn’t move, then saying they want to do what it takes to stay in Pittsburgh – he’s giving up any leverage that he had and looking like an amatuer.
If I was his agent, if we didn’t get an acceptable offer, I’d recommend he hold out. The Steelers could let him go after next year, but they aren’t prepared to go without him this year. If nothing else, I’ll bet they’d give him a high priced one year deal with an agreement not to franchise him next year. That would make everyone fairly happy.
charity standing orders
A lot of similarities between detroit and cleveland.
Both were on the verge a few years ago of having big seasons and both have really struggled.
I really thought the Browns were making good moves of late and thought that last year they would contend. Its kinda sad when the Browns have been as bad as they have been for as long as they have been.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 3, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Browns
I was pretty sure they’d collapse if they faced any adversity. I’ve never seen a team that built through free agency the way they were, trading their top 3 picks in last year’s draft, that have had great success.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 3, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Browns pity
I would have more pity if we hadn’t had Browns fans talking smack on here last year after they had gone 10-6 and missed the playoffs in 2007. But, anyway, that’s just me.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 3, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nance
He’s my camp sleeper. Another guy that Tomlin worked with everyday in Minnesoata ala Mewelde Moore. Of course Nance was also Ben’s top target at Miami. He would’ve been a first day draft pick if he hadn’t blown out his knee in his Senior year. Hopefully he’s fully healthy and ready to contribute. It certainly speaks well that Arians thinks he can compete for the #3 spot.
I had
completely forgotten about him. He was signed to the practice squad sometime last season, wasn’t he?
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Mar 3, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes Sir and more ´cause Nate is gone with t titans
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
VOTE 4 BTSC
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
by YeOldeMexFan on Mar 3, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Deebo's Negotiations
probably aren’t as bleak as presented in the paper, but we’ve got a couple of factors … we only hear from the agent, who gets 15% off the top and whose job is to make his client appear worth as much as possible, and we don’t hear from the front office which gives us only one half of the story.
Harrison’s had 2 phenomenal years. Has anyone on here ever had a salary double, triple, or more after just two years of work? At most you might get a 10% yearly raise … I get 5% yearly, and a yearly bonus worth about two weeks pay. If I went to my supervisor and asked her to triple my salary I’d be laughed out of her office.
Maybe Harrison’s one of those guys who needs to be pissed off to play well and so the office is using negotiations concurrently with coaching and training. Probably not. What I do know is that the Steelers, especially on the business side, have 40 years of proven success. Harrison? He’s got two years of success in a distinct system and with distinct teammates.
The tail don’t wag the dog. Ya know what I mean?
In some ways it's completely different though
You and I probably have 40-50 years of slow incremental pay increases. A football player has a very tight window. The arena is also different. When you are undrafted, or drafted late, your first four years are minimum pay no matter how good you are. Then you strike it for one contract, maybe two, before hanging them up. In Deebo’s case he’s finding himself on the back nine already, and while he’s only had two great years, now is his only window to get what he can. He missed out on the middle contract, so to speak. Now he’s on the third and final leg. His agent is telling him now or never.
The Steelers have three things going for them. This year is on the books, plus as Mafaala mentioned, they have a transition year, plus another transition year. By then he’s on the 17th hole. If he doesn’t re-up now and gets hurt, he only takes $1.4 home. If he hold out he gets nothing more, including having to pay back $344k in bonus money. Deebo has leverage also. He’s Deebo. He also plays for a franchise who really does go beyond the absolute dollar. The Steelers know that they owe him. They just want to be fair without breaking the bank. Where is that line? They’ll find it, but it won’t be easy. I don’t blame Deebo a bit, however, for wanting to strike while the iron is hot, especially since this is the one and only contract that he will be able to do so.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
I like the picture
of the Cleveland “Bone head” crying by the way.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
Harrisons contract will get done
both sides will be happy.
I forgot about Nance. Got to be a real plus for the kid to be Ben’s college receiver. It be great if he steps us as a real play maker.
Can he play? Anyone have any info on him?
Deebo leaving is a thought that scares me BUT
I really am starting to like our third round pick Bruce Davis. I know that if Deebo leaves us, Timmons will step into his spot, but eventually I’d think that the Steelers would get Davis into the rotation and Timmons back to the inside over Foote. Davis, to me, is a spitting image (at least attitude wise) of Joey Porter. Not making any comparisons, but I’m excited to see what he can do.
To the tune of the classic children's song "This Old Man" (the part with nick nack patty whack)
Big Snack, Silverback, take the Dawg Pound's Bone, the Black and Gold sent the Brownies crying home.
by Tim Mullhaupt (HSS) on Mar 3, 2009 11:08 PM EST reply actions
Why are you really starting to like Davis? Just curious if this is based on performance in practices down the stretch or just based on further research of his (outstanding) college career?
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
mabye it was his interviews with BTSC...
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2008/6/24/557819/behindthesteelcurtain-talk
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2008/7/9/568144/steelers-rookie-bruce-davi
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 4, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
from the july interview
Davis: Kellen Winslow. I’ll get the chance to play against him every year and I think he is a great football player and it will be a real challenge to play against him.
Har.
Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.
I thought that was funny as well after re-reading it...
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Mar 4, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
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