Curious what you guys think?
by Tommyboy45 on May 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT
32 comments
Hey, just wondering how you guys feel about this, it was posted on the Bengals page and of course everyone thinks he should be in, look forward to your comments.
Is Willie Anderson a Hall-of-Famer?
by jsl413 on May 14, 2009 10:28 PM PDT 
4 comments, 1 new
I'd like to think so. He was a stalwart at tackle his entire career. He never won the big game, but do tackles have to? He was one of (if not the best) the premier tackles of his generation. I'm certainly pulling for him.
Oy, I guess I need more words for this to be a FanPost. Let's take a look at some of the important achievements of Willie's career:
Missed a total of 27 games in his 13 NFL seasons, including his rookie season. He played in 181 of the 208 possible games his teams played in during his career.
Went to the Pro-Bowl from 2003-2007.
First-team All Pro from 2004-2006. Second team All Pro in 2003.
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He was a beast.
But HOF requires you to be the best, he wasn’t. I’d take O. Pace or J. Jansen as being better than him, so I don’t think he’s HOF caliber.
He’s not far off though.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
From a Bengals perspective
It’s an interesting thought. A lot of Bengals fans will say yes, but I think that would be more from a lack of options from our team lol.
I don’t think he will be a first ballot hall of famer, but I think down the road he will make it in. He was extremely durable and consistent, a force at 330-340 pounds.
If he had spent more time with a higher profile team, I bet he would be in a hell of a lot faster.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
I say yes...
He wasn’t the best tackle in the NFL during his time in the league, but he was the best right tackle, and I don’t think its that close, unless I’m overlooking someone.
He played 13 years in the league, which is a long time for anyone, much less a 340 pounder. He was durable, reliable, and deserved to be named to more pro bowls than he was for several reasons, most notably the lack of respect right tackles get as it relates to left tackles. Until two seasons ago, he had only missed 2 games in his whole career, to that point 11 seasons in to said career. He helped pave the way for a 1000 yard rusher in every year he played except three, one being the year Corey Dillon split carries with Rudi Johnson (which both RB’s were close, Johnson falling less than 50 yards of the milestone), the other two were two seasons ago when he only started 5 games, the last being his rookie year when he only started 10 games and had Garrison Hearst running the ball. Remember this was on the Bengals, who were’nt exactly an offensive juggernaut through most of his years.
He does have two things going against him though. One he played the less glamorous of the two tackle positions. The second is just how hard it is to get into the hall of fame in pro football, maybe the hardest HOF to gain entry in in sports. Don’t belive me, check out the list of HOF’ers. Here’s a link:
By the way...
The Hall of Fame is so hard to get into I very rarely get into any HOF discussions. Especially for my team. When you hear people talk about the possible HOF’ers on our current team, think really hard, because for most of the guys, as much as we all want to say yes, the answer is almost always going to be no.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerome will make it, but maybe not even first ballot. Hines I don’t think will. Too much debate about who is the best WR during his career, no way he comes out clearly in the top 3.
As for Deebo, they should let him make his own case personally, then he’s a lock.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 15, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the way I see it...
Bus is in. Very liitle doubt on that.
Hines- I don’t think so. If the board sees the total package, not just numbers, then he’s on the fringe, and I’d lean toward in. The bottom line for Hines is, as complete of a player as he is, too many WR’s in the league during his time put up numbers that dwarf his, making the numbers the glaring difference.
Ben- If Ben wins one more Superbowl he’s a lock. He’s been more than impressive thus far, but over the course of his career, he most likely won’t be thought of as an elite talent even though he is. Right now he’s well on his way, but only time will tell.
Farrior- As great as Farrior has been, I just don’t see it happening. Two Superbowl rings, a few Pro Bowls (which should mean less now than ever) and enormous amounts of leadership make him one of the best in the league in my opinion but he falls just short.
Troy P.- My favorite current Steeler will have the best shot of making the HOF of all the players on this team. He just needs to have success over the long haul, which is never garaunteed. I think he’s in if you project his number over the next 5-8 years.
Aaron Smith- This one is tough and hurts. I don’t see ANY way he makes the HOF despite being an irreplacable part of our team for the last decade or so. It’s just not going to happen. He doesn’t get the pub he deserves even though he’s the BEST 3-4 end in football. I’m hoping the board sees him for what he is, and doesn’t try and fit him into the regular DE mold. That’s the only way he has an outside shot. Plus D-Line is the hardest place to get in from (that’s not K or P) only four or five inducted in the last 20 years or so.
Deebo- no chance. Can’t start putting up numbers (no matter how good) in the last few years of your career and think you’re in. He’d have to break the single season sack record twice to have a shot.
Everyone else- It’s just too early to tell, and if it’s not too early for you it’s too late.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your entire post.
I think if Ben gets in it takes forever. Unless of course he plays phenomenal in another Super Bowl Run. Right now he sits behind Peyton and Brady, in the discussion with Warner, and the perception that the Steelers were a defense with a great running game will always hurt Ben, no matter how crappy our run game was last year.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 15, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If Richard Seymore gets in over Aaron Smith I'l go postal on the HOF selection committee
"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"
at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.
by PA ARMY OFFICER on May 18, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I bet hell get in just coz he was a Patriot*
And the NFL basically pulls their pants down for the Pats
Bleeding Black and Gold since 1989 baby, Blitzburgh is back, time for a repeat!
Now let me contradict this entire post…
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 15, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed with all but Hines
Hines has actually put up very good numbers. The only active receivers around his age and experience who have significantly better regular season stats in both receptions and yards are Randy Moss and Torry Holt. Terrell Owens has played two more years than Hines and has 151 more receptions, Isaac Bruce has played four more seasons and has 203 more catches, so those stats are similar to Hines’. Four Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl MVP award won’t hurt Hines’ chances and neither will his reputation as the toughest WR (only six missed games in 11 seasons) and best blocker of his (or maybe any) era. Hines also shines in post-season, where his stats actually dwarf everyone not named Jerry Rice. Among active receivers, Hines is No. 1 in receptions and yards. He’s had 76 receptions and 1,064 yards in 14 playoff games. Marvin Harrison, by comparison, has 65 catches and 883 yards in 16 playoff games. As far as I know, the only retired WR with more playoff receptions and yards is Rice.
Among WRs all-time, Hines is 19th in receptions and with a 65-catch season will go past another six retired WRs, including Hall of Famer Steve Largent who like Hines was more of a possession receiver than a deep threat, and probably also active WR Muhsin Muhammad (who has seven more catches than Hines in two more seasons). Hines already has more receptions and TDs than recent HofF inductee Michael Irvin, who played 12 seasons compared to Hines’ 11. With three more decent seasons Hines will get to 1,000 career regular season reception (he has 800 now), a mark so far reached by only five guys and maybe three more (Owens now at 951, Holt at 869) and Moss at 843 ) by the time Hines gets there. Three solid seasons will put his yardage over 12,000 (he has 9,780 yards now), comfortably in the top 20 all-time and probably the top six of his generation behind Bruce, Harrison, Moss, Owens and Holt. Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith would need at least five more productive seasons to get into the conversation.
But obviously it’s not a sure thing. Cris Carter in my opinion should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Andre Reed hasn’t made it yet despite seven Pro Bowls and more than 13,000 career yards (but only four 1,000 yard seasons in a 16-year career). But Super Bowl victories, Hines’ unique personality and, with three more good seasons, very worthy numbers should make him a Hall of Famer, IMO.
by steeler.lifer on May 16, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are a lot of HOF voters that want flashy plays and dominant performances. The only place Ward noticably dominates is the blocking game, and depending on how the new rule in enforced that might not be credited in his favor at all.
The smart football voters will vote for Ward because he is so subtly good. He uses positioning so well on defenders that he’s pretty much open even when he’s covered.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Hard to know what they think sometimes
As Steelers’ fans, we love what Hines Ward brings to the table. He’s a football player first, a WR second. It’s difficult to know exactly how he is perceived elsewhere among HOF voters. Perhaps a few even think of him as a cheapshot artist who piles up numbers with little dinks and dunks that anyone could catch. I think his reputation tends to obscure the fact he has been tremendously productive and, based on last year’s performance, is far from done and will end up with outstanding career numbers. Of course, as NYsteeler points out, he might be considered less worthy when it comes time to vote than some of the flashy guys of his generation. That’s who he will be measured against initially, not the Largents or Irvins. I expect it could take several years of HOF eligibility before Hines finally gets his due. He still needs three more good seasons and perhaps the limelight of another Super Bowl run to build a resume that gives him a shot, but he’s such an incredibly durable and driven athlete that it’s well within the realm of possibility. Personally I think he will outlast Santonio in a Steelers’ uniform and continue to be the main guy for Ben as long as he remains healthy.
by steeler.lifer on May 17, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I say yes
That’s just my opinion.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
TY for coming on over Tommy
Hey gang want to see something funny.? Go over to the Bungles site and make some legit comment like they had a good draft, you think there team will do better this year or something like that but make sure you slip in the correct spelling for Sixburgh.
It’s like waving a red flag. They lose all thoughts except for the emotions of jealousy and rage.
Something else funny.
They have a discussion going on over there about MVick. The fans seem to have a consenus that they don’t want anybody who has been locked up. It would be a bad example. Talk about hypocrites!
by steelerstyle on May 16, 2009 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions
How can we be hypocrites if we are not the ones that make the personnel decisions? There was a huge resistance to bring Chris Henry back from the fans, we all acknowledged his talent but we were fed up with all the off the field crap. But Mikey had to go ahead and play the redeemer.
So now the fans want nothing to do with any player that will reflect poorly on the Bengals image. Apparently the front office does not feel the same way. But how does the fans wanting to stay away from players with character issues make us hypocrites?
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
by Bengals FTW on May 18, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd call it an accidental blurring of the lines...
I don’t know for sure what he meant, but in my opinion he made a mistake a lot of people make pretty regularly when discussing teams other than their own. This is a situation where the front offices views are taken as being reflective of the fans view. Which we both know isn’t always the case, but the distinction is often blurred accidentally by fans of other teams, as I think it was in this case. We all make the mistake from time to time.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 18, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Little help
So I went over to their site and looked for your nice comment and where they lost all thoughts except jealousy and rage and for the life of me i couldn’t find it.
Can you show me where it happened, because I could use a good laugh?
Cincy Jungle
On a fanpost titled “Another brick in the Wall.”
Sorry I don’t know how to set up a link but they were talking about getting Foote. Afew wanted him because he is a steeler and they thought would provide some insight into our defenses. A few hate steelers so much they can’t stand the thought of any Steeler on their team. I pointed out by our history of LB’s going on to other teams and exceling (Porter had a career high number of sacks with Miami) that Sixsburgh is a LB factory.
by steelerstyle on May 17, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I saw that
I just didn’t see where you said anything like they had a good draft or you think their team will do better this year, nor did the ONE response to your comment come across to me as anything resembling losing all thought except for emotions of jealousy and rage.
As a matter of fact I thought his response was quite measured and reasonable, and one that I agree with. I have the same annoyance with Steeler fans whose only response when anyone says anything negative about the Steelers is to respond “We won six super bowls, how many has your team won?”
Important point
I was making was Foote had two SB rings. The general topic being Foote would be a good pickup for other teams and Bungles in particular.
IMO post season experience on a starter is invaluable and super bowl experience is a whole other level too.
The whole reply I got which was a complaint is similar to yours. HaHA we got our SB’s you dont.
Like you imply that is a childish arguement. What is not childish but forward thinking is understanding how that kind of experience helps in the playoffs and beyond in a way that success in the regular season doesn’t.
Any other questions?
by steelerstyle on May 17, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't ask a question, I made an observation
His whole reply was not a complaint. The first part of his response was suggesting that Foote might have trouble transitioning to a 43 defense after playing a 34. Then, he said oh by the way, you don’t have to bring up the six super bowls all the time, everybody knows they won six, but many steeler fans use it in response to every comment made about the steelers.
He makes a valid point. And again, I still don’t see where he lost all thought except jealousy and rage.
Perhaps you exaggerated that part a bit, eh?
Thank you
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
by Bengals FTW on May 18, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
is fame important to the hall?
I’m not sure how the media tries to balance the HOF entries, if they’re supposed to be balanced in roughly the same proportion as an NFLroster or not.
If so very few linemen should make the HOF IMO. I would think for an OL to make the hall, they have to be pro-bowlers for about 8 years. DL might be more famous in my opinion since when they’re successful, particularly rushing the passer, you hear their names. Good OL play leads to anonymity for the most part.
By the same fame evaluation Hines should be a shoe in. He’s almost unique as a WR. Hines does only a good job of things at which Jerry Rice and Randy Moss etc excel . But those guys would be utterly pathetic in trying to fill Hines’s shoes. The guy commands attention on the field and he has a rule named after him. Come on!
by Steely McSmash on May 16, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
The real question is
he as good or better than Anthony Munoz? You probabably dont need to write a thesis to make your point.
Willie Anderson
Is behind Pace, Ogden, Roaf, Jones. Too many contemporaries were better.
One difference...
All four you listed were left tackles. Willie Anderson is the best right tackle of his generation. Which, I think should get him the nod.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 18, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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