The Michael Vick situation...
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 7:54 AM EDT
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PrintThis situation is really starting to aggravate me, I am sick of hearing what people think Michael Vick needs to do to "impress" the NFL to reinstate him. Consider this comment from the Trib
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said last month that Vick must show true remorse, that he has learned from his mistakes and is prepared to live a different life. Only then will the commissioner consider lifting Vick's indefinite suspension.
Who is Goodell? Who is he to determine whether someone is "sorry" enough? I think spending 23 months in prison instead of on the playing field is a pretty darn good punishment for his crime. Now he has to come out and kiss Goodell's a**. That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard and frankly it sounds a bit like Goodell has a "god" complex.
I don't like what Vick did, matter-of-fact I despise what he did, but he was caught, tried by a jury of his peers, sentenced, and he did his time. Case closed. I believe that Vick should get a second chance no strings attached. What do you think?
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hear hear PiratesFan
Freaking hate Goodell. Total God complex. He better f’n deliver in these next round of labor negotiations or he’s going to go down as one of the worst comissioners ever. Big opportunity for him but for now he is just annoying and pompous.
As for Vick, totally agree. Give me a break. It’s despicable what Vick did and I would never disagree that he’s generally just a bad apple that will never truly be a ‘good’ person. But the dude paid his price for his mistakes for now and deserves a chance at redemption like all other American citizens. Any argument about NFL being a ‘privlige’ is bogus. Others benefit financially from his presence, just as he benefits financially from being blessed with unwordly physical gifts. It’s not a one-way street. NFL will have him back and if anyone thinks otherwise, they’re a total sucker. $$$ galore to be had with his return – just a show for now to act all high and mighty. And I’m happy for that, because even though I’ve always not like Vick as personality or as a player, I definitely think he deserves a chance at playing again after being locked up and paying the price for his transgressions.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
I agree
He did the time that his peers sentenced him too. He is a free man now and if there is a team that wants to sign him and deal with the public backlash then so be it.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
I dont think he should be allowed to be reinstated
But he will be. Vick, his play and his publicity all means $$$ signs for Goodell like you said. They’ll lap it up
Bleeding Black and Gold since 1989 baby, Blitzburgh is back, time for a repeat!
by Michael Hewitt on May 19, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgiveness?
being realeased from prison is his forgiveness. He has done his time and the legal system has forgiven him by releasing him. Now a man stands in front of the prison gates. How do we see him? Is he as clean and pure as a new born baby? Is he on par with a six year old who got cought with his hand in the cookie jar? On the same level as a teenager who just got cought steeling his first car stereo?
Mr Vick is a man who owned a house that was raided for drugs (None were found) and a dog fighting ring was discovered. He owned a water bottle with a secret compartment for weed, which he tested posative for while he was on trial for dog fighting. He is a man who tortured animals. He is a man who did all this for his enjoyment, because we all know a few hundred extra bucks were meaningless to man with a hundred million-plus contract to play in the NFL. And, he lied about it every step of the way.
That is the man who is standing in front of the prison gates after being freed. His history tells us this and he has done nothing to show that he is not still that man. Prison was imposed on him, it was not an act of contrition on his part. When Roger Goodell asks Vick to show some remorse, all he is asking is for some sort of proof that he is not the same man that he has shown himself to be through the histroy of his actions. I would think this is just good common sense before he inserts Vick back in the middle of a multi-billion dollar business. A business that could be tainted in the public eye if Vick continues to be the person he has proven himself to be.
It's total bullshit that it's even an option for this D Bag to play in the NFL again!!!!!!!!!
Another person who was on the “up and up” in the NFL and made the concious decision to commit a felony via fighting, torturing, and killing dogs with his own hands. Sorry Prick, I mean Vick, you had your chance and blew it. Why should this piece of shit get to go back doing something he loved, MAKING MILLIONS to boot, when you and I would be turned down trying to get a job at Wal-Mart with that on our record. What makes him different? If he’s sorry for what he did, great, he should be, but if it were up to me this coward would still be in jail. Actually if it were up to me, i’d throw this bitch in a cage with about 20 rabid dogs that had been poked with sticks all day.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
dude
theres people who have raped and murdered people that have jobs. C’mon now.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on May 19, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure they're are.
How many making millions doing something they enjoy?
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
So you aren't mad at what he did...
Your mad because he has skills and athleticism that garners him a chance to make large amounts of money playing a game. That’s your problem, not his. Each person has a different lot in life and has to make the best of his/her situation and going back to playing football is what Vick will have to do.
Additionally, you need to research your argument much better because I believe Vick has quite a bit of creditors to repay.
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
total irrelevant
As I said, others benefit from Vick making millions on his god given talent. Its called Capitalism. All’s fair game. Not Vick’s fault he’s blessed with ability. Nor can one fault others from profiteering off him, as Arthur Blank and Virginia Tech have done. Doesnt matter if hes custodian or NFL QB.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on May 19, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you know that he has spent time in jail?
Ahhh… that means no freedoms, no lucrative sports deals, and maybe even Bubba in the shower. You need to get over yourself. I’m sure you never made mistakes that someone graciously forgave you for.
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure,
I’ve made mistakes and been forgiven. I can’t say I’ve ever run a large scale dog fighting ring or anything else which would require jail time. Look, just because someone spent some time in jail doesn’t mean all should be forgiven dude. If Vick raped your mother or sister and spent some time in jail, should he be able to play again once out because he had “no freedoms, no lucrative sports deals, and maybe even Bubba in the shower?”
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
But he didn't rape a person...
That comparison is flawed. Rape is a much more serious crime than dog fighting, by far.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I've owned pitbulls...
When you talk to most people and tell them you have pitbulls they look at you like you have an extra arm or leg. Like there is something wrong with me for having them around. Parents pull their kids away from you when you have them out for walks like they’re automatically going to rip their kids faces off. Insurance companies won’t cover you or your house at all if you tell them you have one.
Society’s stance on this comes off hypocritical. They look down on you for having a pit bull like its a monster, but if you harm that dog you’re the monster. In no way am I justifying what he did, but the outrage over this is a bit overblown. Comparing a crime against an animal, however bad it was, to a serious crime against a person is a weak arguement. People and animals are different things. People kill mice, rats, rabbits, raccoons, pretty much any animal not protected by the EPA every day, every day. But because they aren’t your typical household pet we all grow up loving, no one sheds a tear. To say a person has no right to continuing life after a crime committed against any animal is ridiculous.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude....
your missing the point. By the rational given by Pirate, if you go to jail, and serve your time, pay your debt to society, all is forgiven.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Forgiveness is not conditional
If you don’t forgive someone for their transgression then you have to live with the bitterness all your life. That bitterness wears on you until you just become a bitter person. Its just a basic fact of life. Nobody will forget the mistake, but you can forgive and move on. Its OK to forgive somebody, really it is. It actually benefits you more than the other person.
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Than talk to him about that...
My point is that you’re making a mountain out of a decent sized hill. I wouldn’t call it a mole hill. I agree with the fact that what he did was horrible, thus increasing the size of said hill.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
This was supposed to be up one, but I have no control.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
And for the record...
Pirate is right. That is how it should be. Forgiven and forgotten are two seperate things. Everyone desreves to be forgiven, I mean everyone, but the crimes they’ve committed should never be forgotten.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
So what is he supposed to do?
Sit around and “look sorry?” C’mon man, I respect your opinion that you don’t like him, but to saythat he can’t continue trying to make the best of his life from now on is ridiculous.
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Fine by me, make the best of your life.
Don’t think you should be rewarded with being reinstated to the NFL though. Just my opinion.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
maybe he should
use his college education and get a different job…
Nope
So you want to kill him after he spent two years in jail and lost his money…OK…I dont believe killing dogs in any way equates to killing humans….are you sure your not more of the problem and vastly less of the solution….sad to see all these people comparing themselves to rich people …. when you know that they don’t live by the same rules as us… We know life is not fair….. and you probably would not get a job…OKAY…. if thats your beef than it should not be with Mike Vick but the system….Famous people abuse people, drugs, weapons, and the judicial system, and its been going on.forever…If you really feel that passionate about dogs okay, but if your comparing yourself to him or his transgressions your not being realistic…
I'm not comparing myself to him.
I am that passionate about dogs, hence, the possibilty of him coming back as a felon to do what he once loved pisses me off.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
It will be interesting to look back on this a few years from now.
First off, my opinion is you have the let him back, there is not one legit reason to keep him out. Made the mistake, did his time and now it is time to move on.
What I find curious is that here’s a guy who did something incredibly awful, but in my own opinion not nearly to the extent of the men who beat there wives and drive drunk. The people who have done the latter ultimately seem to be forgiven and their mistakes soon forgotten. It appears a guy who abuses and kills dogs will be persecuted for the remainder of his life. Again, what he did was terrible, but if he was in any other occupation, once his time was served it would be against the law to discriminate against hiring him for a position.
Ya, but he might not get hired back to the same company. If you are working for a company and you commit a crime that is considered detrimental to the company they can terminate your employment, at least that is my understanding of the laws.
At that point you could be ineligible for re-hire, and would be unable to be employed by that company. But like you said others would not be able to discriminate against you.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You are correct. Make a company look bad and they have every right to terminate you. God-ell loves money though, so I’m sure he will get reinstated.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I am disgusted by what Vick did...
But the guy has been punished for his crimes. He’s lost everything, at least from what I’ve read. He lost his money, homes, any bit of respect anyone ever had for him, and his freedom over an almost two and a half year span. I was a Michael Vick fan. I am a Virginia Tech football fan, and have seen the best and worst of Vick, on and off the field. What he did was absolutely disgusting.
But last time I checked this was America still, and even the worst of criminals are at least given a shot to show they’ve reformed, and so should Vick. Simple as that.
On to the football side of this topic. Where does he play? With the formation of the new football league who’s name I don’t remember, I see a year there as the best landing spot for him. To get back to playing the game, and sharpen his skills. After that the NFL will come calling, assuming he’s not completely terrible. I see him putting up okay numbers against okay defenses, maybe being a little generous in terms of competition level, but I’ll give the league the benefit of the doubt. To me he comes back as a back up QB at best.
Now to what will be no doubt the most controversial part of my post. I see a couple of teams who have the ability to take in a guy like this.
1.The Raiders, no reason necessary. Okay, maybe one… Al Davis.
2. The Patriots, they’ve shown an interest in the “troubled” players, but this may be too much for them. Somehow I doubt it.
3. The Bengals, they’ll take in any ex con they can get. (Okay, I don’t really think the’yll sign him, more of a friendly jab.)
4. The Steelers, this is where it might get ugly. The bottom line is Charlie Batch will be gone in a year or two at the most. Dennis Dixon is the only QB we’ve drafted in the Tomlin era, showing to me at least, one of two things. Either this is the type of QB Tomlin wants, or Dixon was too good to pass up at the time. The latter has yet to be proven, so I’ll opt for the former, but this is an assumption. So in two years, who is our back up QB? Batch will most likely be gone, and Dixon’s rookie contract will be up. Odviously alot can change between now and then, but as of right now there is a potential hole to be filled. Our front office is very strong, as is our locker room and coaching staff. We’ve had a history of getting rid of troubled players, but we also have shown the ability to give the second chance that sometimes a player needs. If the price is right, which it will be (don’t get fooled into thinking he’s going to make bank on his return… not gonna happen… think league minimum contract) we have the ability to bring a guy like this in. He’d be an odvious back up, and would provide a decent second option should we need to use him. His passing skills were always subject, but he would be a back up, so I guess while his passing is important while he plays, he shouldn’t play too much, and can move an offense running as well. As a back up he would have real value. If we wanted to, we may even use him as a Slash type. Just a thought, bring on the hate.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions
lol
funny but interesting idea.
but without a doubt, there will be many suitors of Vick. The P.R. of bringing him back isnt that bad at all and the upside in exposure and extra cameras never hurts. Bank on him being back ASAP and not necessarily with just one of the marginal teams like CIN, OAK, DAL. Could land anywhere where there’s not an entrenched incumbent at QB for years to come.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on May 19, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Buffalo
They seem to have more questionable characters by the day.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
put your money down there if odds are right :)
I could see that for sure. Trent Edwards + J.P Lohsman experiment needs to end someday soon, no?
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on May 19, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
JP's gone already...
I really like Edwards though, I think he could be a solid QB. Late great Bill Walsh was his biggest supporter out of college.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I used to laugh at Buffalo fans every time they’d talk about JP LOSS man. He was a head case out of college, full of huberus, and when the slightest bump in the road came along, he just lost his composure so quickly. He’s a great physical talent, but no mental strength what so ever.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Double Standards
I feel like the league has some serious double standards when it comes to player reinstatement. Vick is being singled out because his crimes are very obvious in the news. Other players have done terrible things and been let back in. Unless the NFL lays down a blanket policy that they won’t hire ex-cons or every person coming out of prison will serve a one year suspension, I don’t see how they can get away with picking and choosing who they’ll punish like this.
by Chicago Steeler on May 19, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions
If he makes it back to the NFL
I pray he gets Carson Palmered X 5 his first game back! Loser.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
dont diagree with the vitriol towards him
hes a punk and not a natural born leader. He’ll crash and burn in the long run but for now, he deserves another chance as a still young American male in society. He can screw up again if he so pleases and then there will be more of an argument to blackball him, but nor now, he’s not there yet, imo.
Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)
by Michael Bean on May 19, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
That statement right there completely discredits you
Anyone wishing harm on a player in sports simply because you don’t like him is a coward and unworthy of civil discussion.
by Piratefan13 on May 19, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It discredits me to hope karma takes its course?
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Karma?
Isn’t that the same as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Hey buddy wish what you want on anyone but don’t be suprised if it turns on you.
Will do, thanks.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
HUH??
This is sad… Why would you wish his career over……seems to be there something a little deeper here!!! Go ahead and let me know what it is….you seem to have a no mercy…kill kill… blood and guts attitude…oh sorry yours is only against humans..you protect dogs right????
Zhub
Vick is a piece of shit, that’s why I hope he never plays again. And yeah, I do protect dogs. I could go on and on about people that are playing in the NFL that I don’t believe should be. However, if you refer to the original post, it was asking “my feelings” on Vick.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
people usually get more than a second chance
It is kind of amazing someone can make tens of millions of dollars, declare bankruptcy, knowingly transmit sexual diseases, attempt to smuggle pot through an airport, flip off fans, be involved in dogfighting, serve prison time, allegedly steal from an employee pension fund and still have a good chance to be paid more than anyone on this site’s salary.
Oh and have a worse completion percentage and passer rating than Tim Couch or JP Losman, though he slightly edges out the mental midget.
the fact is
as usually someone points out, the NFL is a business. And right now Goodell is in charge of that business, and he has every right to not “hire” a convicted fellon. I like to add though, why not make it accross the board, commit a fellony, sorry no NFL for you.
its not that
they are being to hard on Vick, its that they are sometimes too easy on the others IMO
I was going to get in othis one
But it will come down to a moral standpoint that everyone holds and will lose the football flavor of this site.
Ah screw it here it goes:
Goodell isn’t god. He’s the man who oversees a business and decides who gets to enter his realm. Understandable. Vick should be able to be reinstated and play ball if someone wants him. It is then up to the team owner to decide if they want that type of person in their locker room or better yet being their leader on the field. The Rooney’s would have no part of it and we should be grateful for that. Any business man can hire any ex con they want as long as the legalities are in line. Vick did his time, according to our judicial system, whether you think it was just or not. He now can have a 2nd chance. So in closing, it’s up to who wants this man on their team. Not I. Not I
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
SMH
What I see when I hear people still wanting retribution from Vick is people who have a trouble with forgiveness. Even moreso a skewed view of reality. Some people feel as if someone makes a mistake that they can’t related to then they can be more harsh in judgement. The thought is, " I would never do such a thing!, How could anyone do that!, I’ve made some mistakes but never any that bad!". When we do this we put ourselves on a platform and downplay our flaws and mistakes and emphasize others. You can take your mistakes and I’m sure there is someone who will look at you and say the same things you say about Vick, “How could you do that?”. We all make mistakes and we should understand that each of us has different flaws. While don’t believe someone should be punished the same for murder as for speeding but I do believe that once a person serves their time then all is repaid. Thats the american system. I have a dog of my own and well I honestly think that dog fighting is no worse than, cock-fighting, horse racing, hunting, and any other sport where animals are forced to compete in. Which is a conversation in itself but to sum it up, these animals would not be doing these things if it weren’t for the external influence of humans. So before you condem Vick, look at yourself in the mirror and fix your own flaws. Until then another man’s flaws is irrelevent.
by tannofsteel84 on May 19, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I guess my problem is
when we are in trouble we want every opportunity for redemption, but aren’t willing to bestow the same thing to others when they mess up. Put yourself in Vick shoes, walk a mile, then come back and say things like -" I pray he gets Carson Palmered X 5 his first game back! Loser." How would you feel if someone said the same thing about you after you paid ya dues for whatever mistake you’ve done.
by tannofsteel84 on May 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If I did what Vick did....
I would totally understand if someone said that after I paid my dues. I don’t have a problem with forgiveness, I have a problem with it in certain situations.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
so...
if you played football all your life then got in jail and then can’t go back to work, which is what football is, work, not a priviledge. You wouldnt feel a certain way about it? How is it right to keep this man from making money? If he has a skill set to perform the job and someone wants to hire him then thats their right. There is nothing wrong with that. Same thing if he used to be a CEO of a company and he has the skills to lead a successful business, then if a company wants to hire him for that position they have every right to and he should have the opportunity to work again. You have a problem with him making a lot of money, but why? If he gets a job he should get the going rate of that job, thats just life.
by tannofsteel84 on May 20, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
First off...
You are asking to many “if’s”. “If” I played football my whole life, “if” I went to jail. Let me tell you something, IF, i was as gifted an athlete as him and actually made it to the NFL, you best bet I would have enough sense to keep my nose clean and never be in jail, fact! I’d never risk a career like that. It’s just my opinion that a shit bag like this shouldn’t be reinstated to the NFL. Did you stay up with this case at all? Did you read all the shit he did? This guy is a lowlife scumbag, bottom line. I don’t believe he should be granted the opportunity to play in the nfl again, and be compensated with millions of dollars as a felon. It’s just my opinion dude. It’s not soley about the money. I don’t think a lot of people playing in the NFL right now should be. However, this post was titled “The Michael Vick situation”.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Yea
OK. I dont think we can presume anything about any situation that we could hypothetically be in. You can sit there and say I’d never do that. But you don’t know if there was something else to come up that you would do. We don’t know what we would do any situation. Yea I read all the things Vick did, I’ve seen some of that stuff first hand because some of my cousins used to dog fight. The crazy thing about it most of those guys have a close relationship with their dogs. This picture of them just being evil vicious people who are maliciously murder their dogs, usually its the opposite. the in a wierd way I admit love their dogs. Of course I stayed up with the case because I felt like Vick got the shaft on this case. You have every right to your opinion. I just feel its wrong to condem this man and when he already did his time. I said the if’s cause I wanted you to put yourself in his situation. Obviously you feel like you are a better person than Vick. Right? I tend to agree that its a God complex some people have to make them not want to forgive and say I can judge you and you are below me and you deserve this punishment. Not saying that this is you, but I think there was a reason Tony Dungy went to go see Vick. If you want a guy to change you con’t kick him while he’s down, that is the time where he needs love the most. Hating the guy is only going to make things worse. Love conquers all.
by tannofsteel84 on May 20, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope he returns and make this thing turn into a positive thing in his life. Hes been judged, sentenced, paid his time. It’s up to him to show if this has changed his life or not. He could be a damn good example to your society, of someone rather important being human, making mistakes and paying for them. Raise awareness and all that blablabla..
OR
It could appear to young Americans that you can commit a horrible crime, and all will be forgiven/forgotten.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds a lot like how the American justice system works…if you commit a crime you are are prosecuted and given a punishment. At the point you have done what the law deemed proper and have been released.
It seems as if you would rather have a justice system that commits everyone to a lifetime of punishment even after they are released. Perhaps Michael Vick should wear a Scarlet Letter for the rest of his life.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
nice reference
I was forced to read that book. yuck
by tannofsteel84 on May 19, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you take a Shotgun and point it at your spouse's face and pull the trigger
You only get 7 years because she didn’t die. That’s our justice system at work. Put everything into a clearer perspective for everyone? Good.
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
which one got shot in the face?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the pic on the left is before surgery and the one on the right is after the first successful face transplant. The husband who pulled the trigger also attempted to kill himself but failed at that too. So the justice system showed sympathy to a murderer with a bad shot by only giving him 7 years. It makes me effin sick to my stomach.
Got a problem with Harrison, why not take it up with him? Oh you know why!
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
but again how is Mike Vick at fault
These are problems with the U.S. Justice system. Mike Vick has served what time he needed to in terms of the law and if his former employeer choses to allow him back that is on them, and not breaking any laws. He did what was required by law for his crime.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree
I was just trying to make a point. Yes he served his time. But, even though we’re told it’s over and done, does it mean it was enough? And after reading about this poor woman and the time her husband was given, I question how much justice is left in our system. I believe he should be able to play. According to Uncle Sam, he did what he had to do in order to go out and find a job, be it in the NFL or flipping patties at McDonalds. But was it enough. The question to ask is does the punishment fit the crime? I believe that is the reason crime rates are highest in our country. If the punishment outweighs the crime than any criminal with a braincell would most likely think twice. He most likely made millions on the dog fighting ring so the 2 years in prison was most likely well worth it. It’s stupid because I have a cousin who is constantly in and out of jail. I ask him why he always screws up and goes back? He blatantly told me once he runs out of resources to live on he just commits a crime and goes back knowing he’ll have a warm bed and 3 meals a day. It’s ass backwards because people are too pussy to punish criminals to the extent that they should be. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. You think a criminal will keep stealing once he has a finger chopped off? a hand? an arm? Keep stealing buddy, you won’t have any extremeties to steal with if you do. I hope you understand my point Milkshake, everyone.
Got a problem with Harrison, why not take it up with him? Oh you know why!
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I do understand...
not in 100% agreement because we can all find extremes on both sides.
Also you are bringing up a lot of points that should probably be abandoned due to the nature of this blog which is Steelers and football specific. Your topics have much to do with your political ideals and whether I agree or not have little place @ BTSC.
Not saying you are wrong, just that you may be taking it to a level that is beyond our scope.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
My bad
Offseason’s pretty Dry
Got a problem with Harrison, why not take it up with him? Oh you know why!
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
no problems, not trying to scold you brother…just saying, you are bringing up a lot of big issues and this topic broaches a very, very fine line.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgiven/ Forgotten
There is a difference between the two. Anyone who makes a mistake, no matter how severe, deserves to be forgiven. But whenever anyone is wronged by anyone, they should never forget that. Always be open to forgive, never forget.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 19, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
by the american legal system
In their eyes he’s just an american citizen again.
by Chicago Steeler on May 19, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick will never get all his rights back, he’s a felon. The man will not vote again for one, he is allowed to be discriminated against for employment to a certain extent (not fully, but many jobs are off-limits and others can deny him employment with that as the reason.
He still gets to play football, get’s to play a sport we all love and get paid big money.
But he will never, ever, get a contract like the one he had. He will probably never make the money he lost going to jail. Micheal Vick went from being a superstar to being famous for controversy.
3 years ago the list of teams interested in Vick would have been huge. Not so anymore.
The American Legal system will not protect him from these consequences, they don’t give a rat’s end about Vick, they just are done with him.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Never said he should be commited to a lifetime of punishment. That is not for me to decide. But he should not be used as an positive example of how one can turn his life around. Right now he is saying all the right things. How much truth is in his words? No one knows but him.
I rather give him the benefit of the doubt than judging him for the rest of his life.
I dont know him, neither do you. So why not give him this ‘free pass’ to truthfulness? :)
We all do agree that he is not allowed another mistake though.
Put yourself in Rodger Goodell's shoes
Wouldn’t you want to be sure Vick was being truthful before reinstating him? Maybe that is why he is wanting to see remorse in him. He would look like an a$$ if Vick messed up again. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me” is what I would be thinking.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
His shoes wouldnt fit me
How is Goddell going to see remorse on him? Is he, i dont know, Aaron Lazare or the second coming of Sigmund Freud?
IMHO, Goddell is a joke. He prosecutes, judges and writes the sentence. :(
If Vick gets in trouble again, than its too bad — for Vick. He will have lost any credibility he still might have, any chance to do good in life again and put a mark on himself as a failure, not only in Sports (as a figure) but for his family and friends.
Vick will not kill my love for football. If he kills yours, then you never loved it afterall.
To be honest, I hope he gets better advisors in the future and doesnt get in trouble again. As a person, and as a professional, thats the best for his life.
I agree
His actions in no way have affected my love for the game. But it does make me wonder where the line is drawn about rehiring a convicted felon.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone can rehire a convicted felon, they are not denied access from finding work
although they are not a protected class and therefore can be rejected for employment if the employer so chooses. But an employer is free to make that decision.
Again, at least this is my novice understanding of the law.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
He has a right to be rehired. I’m just debating.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But he has paid his dues to society.
Sports are useful for reaching people and also recovering them. Everywhere. And I bet, if he wants to turn his life around (LIFE, not his only public image), this could be a important move by the NFL.
And I dont think Goodell is the one who decides whether or not Vick has ‘remorse’. Just do the right thing, give him a chance.
According to Goddell's comments
He IS the one who decides wether Vick has remorse. If he doesn’t, he will never play in the NFL again. If he does, then he plays.
by OHSteelerfan on May 19, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
MV isn't saying any of the right things.
His publicist is. There is no content, only polish. Same with Goodell.
Supposedly he is working on a end dog fighting campaign. May not be sincere, but he is doing it.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Amy Winehouse is working on a just say no campaign as well.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Yep, and he'd still be doing the same shit had he not been caught!!!
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
Honestly guys
I feel sorry for Vick, I mean think about the other guys that were in this case, they have long since been released and probably moved on with their lives and got jobs without the bit of attention. These were the guys who actually ran the operation. They did worse thing that Vick did. But because Vick plays football he gets all the attention. Fame is a double-edge sword. I know Vick got to be like how those guys get out last year, and no one pay them any attention but just because i’m good at football everyone hates me and doesn’t want me to get out and on top of that doesn’t want me to play football anymore. How am I gonna pay back all that debt with a regular job?
Maybe its just me, or what I believe even though there are people who believe the same as I do that are less forgiving, but I was always taught to forgive, how many times – 70 × 70 in a day and if you don’t know what I’m talkin about you can email me and I’ll be happy to discuss but I really don’t wanna bring that into discussion on a steelers sports blog. (tann84@gmail.com) is the email.
+70X70
on the 70 X 70 comment. I hear ya. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So what he did is ok? What he did IS forgiveable. But to who? He did not harm me. Did he harm you? How can you forgive someone when that person has done no harm to you?
by OHSteelerfan on May 20, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
How can you condemn a person who has done no harm to you? Not saying you specific, but it goes both ways.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 20, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
He probably got a longer stay because he was denying everything until his buddies came forward about him being involved. If you testify against someone who is also guilty, doesn’t that usually lessen your sentence?
Vick was the top dog, it was his money and property, he couldn’t pass the buck. His friends could and did, despite the fact that they did most of the work.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If PacMan can play again, Vick can too...
PacMan did way more damage to the credibility of the NFL than Vick did, and he was allowed back. Why not Vick?
Vick did his time.
He probably won’t so much as look at another dog again in his life.
Let the man play football.
Lets Be Real
WHAT GOOD DID PUTTING MIKE VICK IN JAIL DO? HE WAS WRONG ….TERRIBLY WRONG…. BUT HIS NAME AND MARKETABILITY HAVE BEEN SHREDDED!!! THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME…WHY PAY TO FEED HIM IN PRISON?? WE GOOD HAVE FINED THE D BAG MILLIONS AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE ECONOMY AND FORCED HIM TO DO A TRILLION COMMUNITY SERVICE HOURS…EVERYTHING FROM SCHOOLS TO COMMERCIALS……
.5"
that’s how far it is to the caps lock key. That’s how far it is to not make yourself look like an idiot. That’s how far it is to not lose all credibility on this site. Please pass on what you’ve learned today.
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You are correct about the caps lock little guy. I was in a rush and realized it way to late. I am not worried about losing credibility because I do know what I am talking about when it comes to football and social issues. Again little guy I apologize…. you can answer the question what good keeping Mike Vick in Jail has done when ever you feel like…
youregr8!
After all, money is the only thing in life.
Prisons exists for a reason.
No money is not the only thing in life....
Prison exists for a reason….And so does community service….Please tell me how the league is better off without him??? I just believe that punishments should fit the crime and I do not believe two years in jail is correct in this situation.
But in a capitalistic society prisons are also eager to make profits…just saying
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The league is better off without him
because with leadership comes obligations. He was paid (very well) to be a leader on a team which represents a community of people and families. He apparently did not take his position as a community role model any more seriously than as a free pass to live outside the law and basic animal dignity. That’s why we’re better off without him.
But let him play.
He was paid to play football, we as a society expect him to do those other things but those are not part of the financial responsibilities of an NFL player. His job is to show up when required and play football.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 19, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with you, milkshake, on this point
He wore a Falcons jersey for the community of Atlanta and was paid many millions, not a clock punching stiff.
Not all highly paid football players are leaders, and not all QB’s are leaders either. Ben wasn’t the leader of our team when we won the super bowl his second year.
Micheal Vick was hired to play QB because his bosses thought he would help them win. Leadership would’ve been nice, but they took him without it.
As for representing the community, please. Did anyone think less of the general population of Atlanta when Vick was convicted? Did anyone say “that’s what happens when you move to Atlanta.” No. Why? Because he wasn’t representing the community.
The owners of the team look bad, the GM and coaches, maybe even some of his teammates. But the community?
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Forget the league
Society was better without him for the time he spent in prison. It’s a disciplinary act — and hopefully it gave him enough time to re-evaluate his life.
His job is to show up when required and play football.
I love this sentence. Some people expect something from him but he is not obliged to follow.
Vick has NOT paid his debt to the NFL.......
He was called before his employer and asked about the allegations. He flat out lied. About a criminal matter in which the reputation of the league was involved. A matter that was on the front page of every paper in the country.
Nobody seems to be mentioning that.
Goodell and the NFL have NO reason to rush him back. The matter of lying to the League is still out there. The punishments (jail and NFL) do not run concurrently. If they do, he would get away scot-free for his lies. If I lied to my boss on a matter like that, I would NEVER get my job back.
Jes’ sayin’.
LOL
You are not the same as an NFL star…If you killed someone driving drunk and then gotta another DUI you would not be watching football on sundays let alone playing….(Leonard Little)…
Obviously you've never hired anyone or run a business.....
If an employee flat out lies to you about a criminal matter….embarrasses the company….and ends up serving time…..you are telling me that once he serves his time in prison, you have some sort of moral obligation to immediately rehire the liar who lied to you????
Not on this planet you don’t.
I didn’t get that from that post at all. I think he’s pointing out the looser standard all NFL players have been held to as copared to “regular” employees elsewhere.
by NYSteelersFan4 on May 20, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The NFL doesn’t hire Michael Vick, they state whether or not he is eligible to be hired. Whether or not to hire him comes down to the team owners.
We are arguing that the league should not block his attempt to regain employment.
His athleticism would be an addition to the Steelers, but there is no way he gets a chance to play here. We wouldn’t hire him. No one here would argue that a team must hire Vick if he would help them. No one would argue that his past should not be considered when deciding whether or not to hire him (at least I hope). We are just saying that to block his attempt to find work would be wrong.
Other than that we are saying he will find work because the bottom line is no one cares about the dog fighting when it comes to hiring Michael Vick, the issue is how well can he still play and what would the signing do to your team morale/discipline etc. That’s capitalism. It’s all about the money.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What would be an appropriate punishment
according to us as individuals is highly variable. I personally think that 5000 hours of community service in a high kill rate county animal shelter, Oakland for example, would have fit the crime a bit better, but I’m not a judge and its totally irrelevant what I think. As has been vocalized over and over in this thread, he did the time he was sentenced for the crime he was convicted of, and anything else is a referendum on the judicial system.
The NFL is an independent employer and whether or not they let him play is not subject to a transparent rule of law but the interpretation of one man, or so he would have us believe. And his decision will be a simple cost benefit analysis shrouded in all sorts of Trump-esque moral hooplah about being a role model and NFL values beign weighed against the chance to redeem oneself blah blah blah.
To my point: I am continually astonished by where in the psyche an athlete is able to go and tap into motivation. He will be allowed to play and it will be interested to see how it motivates him and the players he plays with, mostly against. I personally think that there are more than a few LBs out there that are plenty motivated by the chance to show MV who the dog is in this equation, and I guarantee that the first time he’s sacked hard in an away game the crowd will go absolutely ballistic.
+1
It’s too bad that will happen too. Not that I wouldn’t like to see it, trust me I’d love to see Harrison cream him the dirt and start barking at him like a pitbull. The thing is that he has established himself a reputation that he is a criminal. Sorry, but people aren’t easy to forget. He should expect it and just keep playing if he’s allowed back. That’s all he can do.
Got a problem with Harrison, why not take it up with him? Oh you know why!
by SoCalSteelerFan on May 19, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Especially since Harrison wants to be a Veterinarian when he retires from football.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Goodell Is..
the commissioner of the league and he runs a business. If you own a company, and one of your execs goes to prison for animal cruelty, you have a right to not hire him back unless you think he is really rehabilitated. He has the NFL’s image to protect, this isnt about a personal vendetta. He owes the rest of the players, owners, and all other employers more than he owes a dog fighter. Vick should be allowed in society, he paid his debt to society. He hasnt paid his debt to the NFL. That is why he should have to live up to Goodell’s demands.
by Michael Uhlhorn on May 20, 2009 2:19 AM EDT reply actions
Exactly...
…Goodell has been hired to run the league, which includes upholding standards that he feels are appropriate. There’s a lot of criticism and complaints about Goodell being “judge, jury and executioner” in this whole episode…BUT THAT’S PART OF HIS JOB.
Further, Vick can and perhaps should be forgiven…but forgiveness is generally preceded by a sense of remorse by the one being forgiven. This is what Goodell seems to be looking for. Is Goodell supposed to just show up at Vick’s house, and say ‘Howdy, Mike…you’re forgiven.’ Really??
Lastly, the dog fighting indident is not Vick’s first screw-up. IIRC, he’s also been busted for trying to go through an airport while hiding pot, passing along STD’s and stealing from a pension. And yet, Goodell is just supposed to welcome this guy back with open arms? What am I missing here??
You're missing the Church of the Double Standard....
They worship star athletes. It’s not a church of double standards. They hold their idols to no standards at all.
This wasn’t Vick’s first transgression. And the fact that he flat out lied to the League about it means he has a debt to the NFL in addition to the debt to society.
Goodell is right. He’s taking some crap for it. But what kind of executive lets his employee lie to him on a major, major matter….and then let him get away with it. Goodell has a choice of taking crap from some people or being a spineless punk. He’s made the right choice, which is more than I could ever say for Vick.
Goodell has handled things in a pretty consistent manner since he became commissioner. I expect Vick to get a suspension from the league but I don’t see how Goodell can give Vick much more than he gave Mr. Pacman Jones. Not sure what you/anyone else want Goodell to do to him in addition to being suspended.
He already did his time that he owes to society and now he will have to deal with his employer who has set a precedence of suspension for criminal activities for similar employees. I feel after he completes what is expected of him from the NFL, he should be given an opportunity to play football and should suffer no further repercussions if he is able to stay out of further troubles.
This is not just any company and its not just any executive. This is the National Football League that has already established precedences in their current administration. The true Double Standard would be if Michael Vick is suspended indefinitely from the NFL if players like PacMan Jones and others are allowed to suit up on Sundays.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on May 20, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Shake is right, as usual...
This is a two-step process. Vick broke the law, and he has been paying his debt to society.
But he has also violated NFL rules repeatedly and lied to his employer. He has a debt to his former empoyer, and – because he flat-out lied about it, the employer can set the rules about whether or not to let return. Once Mr Vick has completed paying his debt to society, he must “man up” and make things right with his former employer.
Honesty of employees is not a minor matter to the NFL. Nor is criminality. The entire structure of the league is built on a foundation of honesty. If there is no honesty, there is no reason to believe the games are not fixed. Admittedly, there’s a bit of a jump here between Vick’s lying to the League and fixing games, but the NFL can never permit employees to lie about illegal activities. Period. So Goodell must wait a bit and dish out some sort of additional punishment or waiting period before allowing Vick to suit up again.
Goodell . . .
in my opinion is keeping this “remorse” crap as a trump card. I think he is willing to see Vick back, but if someone hands him a big contract and a big role that looks bad for the league. A suspension threat keeps teams in-line, Vicks contract lower and makes the league look OK.
Goodel’s Best Case Scenario(s) plays out like this=
1. Signs with a random team does a bit but never comes close to what he was, plays a few years and then is out of the league.
2. Signs with a respected team (Patriots*cough*) and talks about learning his lesson and being a team player. Becomes a key part of the team.
Banning Vick would mean Vick remains an issue. Vick needs to either become a redemption story about a kid in trouble who learns the true meaning of football and turns his life around, or a “he could have been great but he threw it all away” story. Then he can be filed away safely and no one will give Goodell trouble over it.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on May 20, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
yea it has always been a sensitive subject, i’ve opened it too when i was at Virginia beach in my Vick Jersey not too long after he plead guilty. Sometime I like to get peoples’ reaction and boy did I get it.
by tannofsteel84 on May 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want a good case subject...
For what happens when a football player (and in this sense I don’t use football player as a job, but as a lifestyle. These players’ whole lives for the most part have been built and molded to play this sport, and some have little skill or smarts to do other things) has the game completely taken from him? See Maurice Clarrett. Now odviously the way the sport was taken from M.C.’s life was different, and his road to his current state went a different way (we all know the story on him leaving college, failing in Denver, and so on…) both were/ are similar character guys, to say neither would be considered model citizens is an understatement to say the least.
But this sport has left him behind as it could leave Vick behind in similar states. M.C.‘s life instead of maybe having a positive turn with football in it, has taken a swing for the much worse. I’m not saying M.C. would be singing in the church choir, but having some semblence of leadership from coaches (in maybe a father figure type role) and team atmosphere would help him a little, at least.
Vick’s a bad guy, no doubt, what he did was disgusting and disturbing, but just kicking him to the curb is not the answer. We could just give up on him, his past crimes could easily warrant that arguement, but is it ever good to totally give up on another person? There is one way for him to make the changes he needs to make. He needs to be in football, if for nothing else the occupation of the ever dangerous free time, but also for the support from teammates, fans, owners, and to get back to a routine of normalcy for him. Clearly he will never get full support from everyone, but some from some people will be beneficial to him actually making changes he should. Josh Hamilton made mistakes too, none like Vick, but he says his life didn’t turn around fully until baseball came back into it. If we assume Vick is a wasted soul, we no doubt waste any chance of him having any success, professional or personal, anytime in his life. To assume he hasn’t or won’t change is unfair, he at least deserves a shot to prove he has, and if he hasn’t then the league has every right to suspend him at least, but not giving him a chance to make a change is against everything that I believe, at least.
Remorse - a grey area
How does one express appropiate remorse ? Say I am sorry once ? One hundred times? Maybe apologizing everyday for five years could do it.
Or how about just kiss the ring of the right person ?
Nobody knows what is inside another individual. Why bother trying to determine what is inside this man?
People are so emotional about this issue and to me enough is enough. The man has been sentenced and done significant time in Federal prison. From all reports he caused no problems while in prison. How long should a man pay for a mistake?
Maybe Vick should have been sentenced to 2 years in jail, 3 three years of probation and a lifetime of crap from people with no concept of the American Judical system.
Blah Blah Blah
There are a bunch of great guys in the NFL. Strong Christiian men of high moral fiber, and non Christian men alike with tremendous integrity and love for their fellow man, and dogs I might add. But even the most humble man, the most pious, has his faults. My grandfather often said that “it’s what you do when no one is watching that determines who you really are.” Based on that criteria alone, are there any among us, particularly Mr. Goodell, who are qualified to judge Michael Vick’s heart? Insist that Michael Vick make a show of remorse and a show of remorse is what you are going to get. Only God can judge. Michael Vick has done his time and if he is still capable of producing on the football field he should be given the opportunity to do so providing there is an owner willing to put up with the PETA wingnuts and other pseudo self righteous wackjobs. As far as making an example of Vick, it’s pointless and hypocritical. We all have our dirty little secrets, Michael Vicks just happenned to be put on public display. He lost practically everything because of his foolish behavior. I personally would like to give the man a break.
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