Six time the charm

by tannofsteel84 on Jun 27, 2009 1:44 PM EDT Comment 30 comments

We steeler fans love Big Ben. But there are few others from around the league that enjoy his game like we do. Most say that the defense carries the team and (blindly say) our great running game and offensive line carries the offense. We know anyone who says the latter did not watch steeler football this year. Much like the often debated Lebron/Kobe debate, you can only compare ben with other players that came in with him. Is ben better than eli, and phillip? He certainly has accomplished more than the two. Many will say that his numbers does not prove that he is an elite quarterback. But Terry Bradshaw is not in the Hall of Fame because of his numbers but because he lead the steelers to 4 super bowl championships. However I believe that Ben has the capacity to put up big numbers. He showed flashes of that the year before last throwing for 3,000 yards, a franchise record 32 TD and only 11 int. Here is a look at other lengendary QBs to show an insight to why I believe Ben best year is yet to come.

In the 6th year of a QB I believe the game slows down tremendously. Defensive Coordinators have already used all they have to try to throw you off your game and if you are still starting now that means you have been successful for the most part at your job and overcame whatever defenses have thrown at you. I feel that after this there is no looking back for the quarterback. There is historical reference to my theory. Lets take a look at other hall of fame QBs career stats and see how in their 6th season their play either became steady or they made the jump to greatness. Stats are taken from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/qbindex.htm.

Joe Montana

via www.creative-science.com

Year ▴	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%
1979	23	SFO		16	16	1	0-1-0	13	23	56.5	96	1	4.3	0	0.0	18	4.2	4.6	7.4	6.0	81.1	0	0	4.2	4.6	0.0
1980	24	SFO	qb	16	15	7	2-5-0	176	273	64.5	1795	15	5.5	9	3.3	71	6.6	5.6	10.2	119.7	87.8	15	100	5.9	5.0	5.2
1981*	25	SFO	QB	16	16	16	13-3-0	311	488	63.7	3565	19	3.9	12	2.5	78	7.3	6.6	11.5	222.8	88.4	26	193	6.6	5.9	5.1
1982	26	SFO	QB	16	9	9	3-6-0	213	346	61.6	2613	17	4.9	11	3.2	55	7.6	6.6	12.3	290.3	88.0	20	166	6.7	5.8	5.5
1983*	27	SFO	QB	16	16	16	10-6-0	332	515	64.5	3910	26	5.0	12	2.3	77	7.6	7.0	11.8	244.4	94.6	33	224	6.7	6.2	6.0
1984*	28	SFO	QB	16	16	15	14-1-0	279	432	64.6	3630	28	6.5	10	2.3	80	8.4	8.0	13.0	226.9	102.9	22	138	7.7

As we can see with Smokin Joe he really turned it on his 5th year in the league. But his sixth year he became even more efficient. After that the rest is history.

Next Up: Terry Bradshaw

via images2.makefive.com

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%
1970	22	PIT	QB	12	13	8	3-5-0	83	218	38.1	1410	6	2.8	24	11.0	87	6.5	1.8	17.0	108.5	30.4	25	242	4.8	0.6	10.3
1971	23	PIT	QB	12	14	13	5-8-0	203	373	54.4	2259	13	3.5	22	5.9	49	6.1	3.8	11.1	161.4	59.7	33	287	4.9	2.7	8.1
1972	24	PIT	QB	12	14	14	11-3-0	147	308	47.7	1887	12	3.9	12	3.9	78	6.1	4.8	12.8	134.8	64.1	29	237	4.9	3.6	8.6
1973	25	PIT	QB	12	10	9	8-1-0	89	180	49.4	1183	10	5.6	15	8.3	67	6.6	3.4	13.3	118.3	54.5	24	186	4.9	2.1	11.8
1974	26	PIT	QB	12	8	7	5-2-0	67	148	45.3	785	7	4.7	8	5.4	56	5.3	3.3	11.7	98.1	55.2	10	104	4.3	2.5	6.3
1975*	27	PIT	QB	12	14	14	12-2-0	165	286	57.7	2055	18	6.3	9	3.1	59	7.2	6.4	12.5	146.8	88.0	31	290	5.6	4.9	9.8

Terry Bradshaw often battled a certain back-up QB for the starting position in the beginning of his career. As we can see in his six year is where he took the starting job for sure and never looked back. Didn't really wow anyone with stats but played well enough to lead the steelers to championships.

Next Up: Troy Aikman

via thestarsaysitall.files.wordpress.com

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%
1989	23	DAL	QB	8	11	11	0-11-0	155	293	52.9	1749	9	3.1	18	6.1	75	6.0	3.5	11.3	159.0	55.7	19	155	5.1	2.8	6.1
1990	24	DAL	QB	8	15	15	7-8-0	226	399	56.6	2579	11	2.8	18	4.5	61	6.5	4.7	11.4	171.9	66.6	39	288	5.2	3.6	8.9
1991*	25	DAL	QB	8	12	12	7-5-0	237	363	65.3	2754	11	3.0	10	2.8	61	7.6	6.7	11.6	229.5	86.7	32	224	6.4	5.5	8.1
1992*	26	DAL	QB	8	16	16	13-3-0	302	473	63.8	3445	23	4.9	14	3.0	87	7.3	6.4	11.4	215.3	89.5	23	112	6.7	5.9	4.6
1993*	27	DAL	QB	8	14	14	11-3-0	271	392	69.1	3100	15	3.8	6	1.5	80	7.9	7.6	11.4	221.4	99.0	26	153	7.1	6.8	6.2
1994*	28	DAL	QB	8	14	14	10-4-0	233	361	64.5	2676	13	3.6	12	3.3	90	7.4	6.3	11.5	191.1	84.9	14	59	7.0	5

Troy Aikman really made his jump to greatness in his fourth year so he doesn't help my plight much. But by his sixth year he was well established as an elit QB in the NFL.

Next Up: Drew Brees

via saintsofneworleans.files.wordpress.com

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%
2001	22	SDG		9	1	0		15	27	55.6	221	1	3.7	0	0.0	40	8.2	8.6	14.7	221.0	94.8	2	12	7.2	7.6	6.9
2002	23	SDG	QB	9	16	16	8-8-0	320	526	60.8	3284	17	3.2	16	3.0	52	6.2	5.2	10.3	205.3	76.9	24	180	5.6	4.6	4.4
2003	24	SDG	QB	9	11	11	2-9-0	205	356	57.6	2108	11	3.1	15	4.2	68	5.9	4.3	10.3	191.6	67.5	21	178	5.1	3.6	5.6
2004*	25	SDG	QB	9	15	15	11-4-0	262	400	65.5	3159	27	6.8	7	1.8	79	7.9	7.8	12.1	210.6	104.8	18	131	7.2	7.1	4.3
2005	26	SDG	QB	9	16	16	9-7-0	323	500	64.6	3576	24	4.8	15	3.0	54	7.2	6.3	11.1	223.5	89.2	27	223	6.4	5.5	5.1
2006*+	27	NOR	QB	9	16	16	10-6-0	356	554	64.3	4418	26	4.7	11	2.0	86	8.0	7.6	12.4	276.1	96.2	18	105	7.5

No one prooves my point better than Drew Brees. Because of his shaky play to begin with the Chargers were ready to give up on the guy and draft Phillip Rivers as their next QB. In 2004 Brees turned it around but really put himself in elite status in 2006 where he made his jump had hasn't looked back since. He may not win but his numbers are really good maybe our generation of Dan Marino. I think if he doesn't put up super bowl rings he may get into the hall of fame just on numbers alone.

These are just a few guys but I feel like Ben will make a jump this year to elite status in most people minds. I think he will have the numbers and make better decisions consistently. He has that it factor in a QB. I think that the line will improve and an improved running game will help him look better, if he can cut his sack total in half I think he'll do great. This combined with the advancement of Limas Sweed game should help ben put up numbers that will earn him respect of others, not that its needed - as long as he racks up rings he'll be in the hall. Anyone care to comment or give their opinion?

via www.hollywoodcollectibles.com

Poll

Will Big Ben make a jump to greatness in his sixth year?

Yes

94 votes

No

4 votes

He'll do about the same as last year.

38 votes

136 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 30 comments | Add comment

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Comments

Impressive

I never thought Brees was that good a QB. Granted, I have never been a real “statistics” guy, but watching him play, he just seems kinda awkward. QB commentary aside, good compilation of data TOS84. I thought I would try to put BB’s #’s up here, but copy/paste did something to the format…

The lowest yards BB has thrown in a season is 2385.

The lowest TD’s in a season is 17. Aikman only beat BB one year(his highest was 18)

BB’s highest INT’s was 23. His career INT’s are 69, only Smokin Joe beats him handily there(Brees had 64).

BB’s career W/L is 51-20-0. None of these others comes close, except Aikman in the W’s, and Bradshaw and Smokin Joe in the L’s
Brees 40-34-0
Aikman 48-34-0
Bradshaw 44-21-0
Smokin Joe 42-22-0

Basically, if what you’re saying is true, BB will be in the HoF, barring anything unforseen.

Thank you drive through...

by SteelFever on Jun 28, 2009 2:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heavy thinking.

Sea Bee

by Heckers on Jun 28, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

I never thought Brees was that good a QB. Granted, I have never been a real "statistics" guy

Don’t get me wrong, I like Drew Brees, but on a couple of other boards I frequent, people are very quick to annoint him as “elite” because he threw for 5,000 yards, but they’re quick to tag Ben with “game manager”; and it’s driving me nuts. They don’t take into account that in crunch time, Brees screwed the pooch. There were like 2-3 games this past season with less than 3 minutes to go in the 4th, and the Saints were down by a score, Brees threw an INT. I know that’s only a couple games, but they were 8-8 and winning two of them would have put them into the playoffs. On the other hand, Ben was so money with 3 minutes to go.

by Ladi Izz on Jun 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn

by Ladi Izz on Jun 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry but you are wrong in your stats. :-)
You are comparing what Big Ben accomplished in 5 seasons with the other guys 6 year stats!
Aikman’s win total would be 38 not 48 if you deduct the stats from 6th season, Brees won 30 games in 5 seasons not 40 etc etc.

by Bonek on Jun 30, 2009 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oops.

I just added what was up there in original post and compared to BB’s total stats from same info source. Oh well, that just makes BB look even better though!!!

Thank you drive through...

by SteelFever on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting it done

I get into the same arguement every time QB’s enter a conversation, and it always ends with me saying Ben will end the ’09 season with a performance to dazzle even the nay sayers. I truly believe Limas and Ward will get tired of catching passes and scoring touchdowns this year not to the exclusion of Heath Mller who will get his share too. Big Bad Ben will give that guy in New England and the one from Indy a run for the money and lead the Steelers to # VII inn SB XLIV.

Sea Bee

by Heckers on Jun 28, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I believe you made your case!

Good Post. Thanks!

by steelersrock08 on Jun 28, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Big Ben Had a Break-Out Year...

…as a rookie. And with two Super Bowl wins the past four years, I’d say he’s well-passed the point of having some sort of additional break-out in year six.

This post is somewhat intriguing, but I don’t know how much of a conclusion that one can draw by looking at the stats of only four QB’s. Said otherwise, year six of a standard QB’s career doesn’t seem to be anything special or significant just because it’s…well, year six. An interesting thought, however.

by Weegie on Jun 28, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

would have done more

lol but i got tired… there are some outliers, Dan Marino was great as soon as he stepped on the field, farve got good in his 3rd season, brady however got real good around his 5th or 6th season too. It was just a trend I noticed and wanted to write about.

by tannofsteel84 on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I select option 4. Big Ben is already great.

Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.

by steelguy99 on Jun 28, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1,000

Statistically Ben is not the most amazing QB to ever walk the Earth, but he’s already at a level of greatness many haven’t even reached before.

It's true what they say...Even the NFL's Big Wigs hate the Steelers. On the plus side, I can now tell my future grand kids about Hines Ward and how the NFL made rules because of him. Roger Goodell, you make me sick.

by HighSchoolSteeler on Jun 28, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course we think he's great

Thats the point but to the outside world who don’t bleed black and gold he still is average at best, “anyone can win with a D and a running game like that” then I quickly point out neil o’ donnel, kordel, tommy maddox, mike tomzack, all who had a great running game and good decent D (esp. o donnel) who couldn’t win it all with probably more than what ben had. We know he’s great, I did this to hopefully show that greater things are to come. I hope you at least think Ben will improve.

by tannofsteel84 on Jun 29, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ben will not need gaudy stats if he has 4 rings, and Ben can get 4 rings without gaudy stats. I’d love for Ben to put up some great numbers because theoretically it helps us win…but honestly part of the reason I dig Ben is because he is mortal. He’s not perfect, he screws up, he throws dead birds sometimes and other times misses easy throws. How many quarterbacks bring the tough mentality of “just get er done” to a team while getting hammered repeatedly? Not many. This in my mind makes him cut out of a different mold.

20 years from now I don’t want to be debating statistics with some wingnut over Brady vs. Elway vs. Montana. I want a clear cut argument-ender. Ben won 5 rings. STFU.

Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.

by steelguy99 on Jun 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree

The most important stat is wins, and I don’t care how u get em. Ben goal is to win five and he is one pace for that.

by tannofsteel84 on Jun 30, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by SNW on Jun 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a stats guy but

Ben’s Career Postseason Stats

G: 10
TDs: 15
INT: 12
C/A: 172/278
Comp%: 61.9% or Approx 62%
Yards: 2239
Rating: 87.2

Pretty consistent numbers with his career in Completion percentage and Rating which are 62.4% and 89.7 respectively, so if one thing, Ben is consistent.

by HighSchoolSteeler on Jun 28, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

What a lot of people don’t recognize is that Ben has also excelled as far as statistical performance, not just bottom-line results (although the latter is certainly more important). Guy sets a rookie record with a passer rating of 98.2, then follows it up with a 98.6 on the way to the SB40 title (wouldn’t this be pretty good evidence that his effective rookie play was not a fluke?). His rating goes down to about 75 the next year, but this is most likely because of his accident/injuries/surgery (which caused him to miss summer camp), not because he suddenly forgot how to play. His rating shoots up to 104 the following year, with 32 TD passes against only 11 INTs. This last year was more of a statistical anomaly in that his rating falls to about 80, but nobody here is gonna crucify the guy for a “down” statistical year after everything he’s done so far (and especially where he helped win it all again despite the lower stats). And we shouldn’t forget that he’s also run in 10 TDs in his career (regular season only, he has more in the playoffs), which are not reflected in passer rating.

I’m not saying the stats make or break Ben, far from it, I firmly believe that winning is what matters, I’m just saying that Ben has also been statistically excellent. In the end, we’ve just gotta be grateful he’s in Pittsburgh.

by gcn on Jun 29, 2009 2:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Less is more .. .. ..

Ben the game manager drives me nuts too. But you know what, which is more impressive, needing under 30 passes on average to win a game or throwing 40 plus passes every week and losing a good number of those? Whose arm is going to fall off first? The only managing Ben does is that he manages to WIN GAMES!! The stats nerds can cram it up the arses. There is only ONE stat that matters and that is Ws. Nuff said.

There is no spoon

by chewiesteeler on Jun 29, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to WIN GAMES!!

Thank you sir for my new tagline.

Don't worry about the haters. Haters only hate.

by steelguy99 on Jun 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't mention it .. .. ..

that’ll be $29.95

There is no spoon

by chewiesteeler on Jun 30, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can I pay it off in ad-revenue?

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jun 30, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NICE!!!

Consider it PAID IN FULL!!

There is no spoon

by chewiesteeler on Jun 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great read

I’ll give ya a recommend for it. Big Ben showed what he could do in ’07 with a decent amount of protection, and last year he got next to none, especialy against the teams with better DLines. This years schedule looks a lot easier on paper, and he should hopefully have some improved protection. Although i do not think he will replicate 32 tds, a season of 3500 yards and 25+ TDs with hopefully 10 or less interceptions is achievable

Mind you, i wouldnt care about stats as long as he keeps winning

Bleeding Black and Gold since 1989 baby, Blitzburgh is back, time for a repeat!

by Steeler_ on Jun 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

" Is ben better than eli, and phillip? He certainly has accomplished more than the two. Many will say that his numbers does not prove that he is an elite quarterback."
***************************************

I beg your pardon, but I don’t understand this sort of statements.
If we take a look at pro-football-reference.com or to be exact:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm

We can see that the 3 top QBs drafted in the 1st round of 2004 have almost identical stats in the last 3 seasons. Well, 5 year career stats of Eli and Ben are also identical. As you know Rivers didn’t play his first 2 seasons. So, here, I’ll give comparisons of their career stats and the stats for the last 3 seasons. Take a look and you’ll see that Ben’s stats are BEST of the three QBs in many categories.
So I don’t understand why people question Big Ben’s numbers.

Career stats for Ben
W/L-51/20, Yards-14974, TDs-101, Int-69, Cmp%-62.4 Sacked-192
Career stats for Eli
W/L-42/29, Yards-14623, TDs-98, Int-74, Cmp%-55.9 Sacked-120
Career stats for Philip
W/L-33/15, Yards-10697, TDs-78, Int-36, Cmp%-62.3 Sacked-77
For career stats Ben has most Wins, Most yards, Best Completion %.

Now we compare the last 3 seasons where all of the QBs played. Well,
we have to mention that Big Ben played 2 games less due to injuries.

3 year stats for Ben (2006-2008)
W/L-29/17, Yards-9968, TDs-67, Int-49, Cmp%-61.5 Sacked-141
Att-1342 Comp-825

3 year stats for Eli (2006-2008)
W/L-30/18, Yards-9818, TDs-68, Int-48, Cmp%-57.9 Sacked-79
Att-1530 Comp-887

3 year stats for Philip (2006-2008)
W/L-33/15, Yards-10549, TDs-77, Int-35, Cmp%-62.4 Sacked-74
Att-1398 Comp-873

So, you can see that these QBs have almost the same passing yards,
Comp %, Att and Comp-s.

Each player was selected once to a ProBowl, Rivers in 2006, Ben in 2007,
and Eli in 2008.

So, I don’t understand why so many people think that Ben’s numbers don’t
prove that he is an elite QB.

Big Ben was, is and will always be an ELITE QB of the NFL. :-)

by Bonek on Jun 30, 2009 7:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs