How do you rank the AFC QBs?
by Jason R on Jun 5, 2009 4:33 PM EDT
56 comments
Brady, Big Ben, Huckleberry Hound, and Laser-Rocket Arm: Ranking the AFC quarterbacks on wins, not just stats
It's hard to argue with Ben Roethlisberger as one of the AFC's top quarterbacks. His escapability, toughness, and clutch-playmaking are unparalleled in today's NFL. But where does Big Ben rate among the quarterbacks of the AFC?
As Terry Bradshaw told CBS Sports' Lesley Visser a few months back, Ben is "more accurate" than Terry was. That's important these days; Bradshaw likely had the better receivers--two hall of famers, as Visser points out, in Stallworth and Swann (I do disagree with the hat afficianado Visser that Santonio Holmes is not a Pro-Bowl talent. Holmes is too young and has too much potential to dismiss the possibility of a Canton bust someday). Both Bradshaw and Ben were/are big and immensely hard to bring down.
But the AFC has some other big name QBs, too: namely guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning who have won Super Bowls and pile up passing touchdowns like video game stats.
If you were ranking the AFC quarterbacks today, though, who would you take? If the goal were to win a Super Bowl on the field, not a fantasy championship on your laptop, which of these guys would you want behind center?
I rank them like this:
1. Roethlisberger. Call me a homer or a stooge. But before younz guys drop your Primanti Brothers in your lap, think about Ben's age and how he's still learning to throw from the pocket against certain defenses. Know that the much-maligned offensive line is getting better. And realize that Ben can someday be as good of a drop-back passer as he is an improviser, and you'll realize that Bradshaw's four Super Bowl wins record could fall--and then some.
2. Brady. The Patriots must not be too worried about Tom Brady's health. After all, they traded the gutsy and effective Matt Cassel away in the offseason, giving the three-time Supe winner Brady a huge vote of confidence after his season-ending surgery early last year. Brady's got the best receiving core in the league and (sorry, Mike Tomlin, bide your time) the best head coach as well. Until he shows us he can protect his bum knee, though, I rate Brady behind Ben.
3. Peyton Manning. He's one of the smartest players in the game. Yet gone are Marvin Harrison and Tony Dungy. Has the Colts' Manning, once known as Laser Rocket Arm, lost a bit of armstrength or milliseconds off his release as well? He's still one of the best in the league, but Manning's supporting cast isn't as good as the guys ranked ahead of him here.
4. Phillip Rivers. He's gotten better ever year. You may recall that the Steelers seriously thought about taking Rivers instead of Roethlisberger in the draft. The Chargers receivers are improving rapidly, and Rivers' goofy throwing motion doesn't stop him from making big plays down the football field. Con: He talks like Huckleberry Hound.
Good but not elite: Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel, David Garrard
Big Breakout possible: Matt Schaub, Trent Edwards
Due for a fall: Chad Pennington, Kyle Orton, Mark Sanchez
Flat out terrible: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson
Post your own rankings or argue with mine below and thanks for reading.
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Oh god lol Most have just simmered down after a similar afrgument from before:
Palmer is better than Roethlisberger?
and Buddha followed that up brilliantly with this:
Intangibles separate Ben Roethlisberger from Carson Palmer
Bleeding Black and Gold since 1989 baby, Blitzburgh is back, time for a repeat!
by Steeler_ on Jun 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Palmer
I wasn’t in on the Palmer-Ben post. I like Carson Palmer; he has terrific skills and is as good a team leader as can be expected considering the Bengals team history. But again, the question isn’t one of stats, it’s of what QB you would take in order to win a Super Bowl. Put it this way, if Ben magically had to be replaced and you could take any quarterback you wanted out of the AFC, who would you take? I would want Brady, Manning, or Rivers before Palmer or anyone else.
by Jason R on Jun 6, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other Chiefs QB
What about Tyler Thigpen for a rookie on a bad team he did a good job (led my fantasy team to a third place finish). This year he coulb potentially beat out Cassel for the starting job and turn into a good but not great QB in the league nad some QB like that are in the hall Namath had more interceptions that touchdowns in his career but is in the hall aikman never had a real good statistacal season but got in it done in the playoff and is in the hall. Aksing the question could thigpen be one of those guys in the future.
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 5, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
probably won't start barring injury
I like Thigpen and you’re right that he did well on a team with very few other offensive weapons. But Cassel has more talent and the Chiefs invested in him to be the future of the team. Thigpen has no chance of winning the starting job, barring injury to Cassel
by Jason R on Jun 6, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t wait for Brady “played two and a half games” Quinn to light you boys up for the next decade. “Flat out terrible” my #$%.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 5, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by dominate you mean go about 5-15 against us that is pure domination in my book.
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 5, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call us when he actually gets the starting job.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 5, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking forward to seeing Woodley break Quinn over his knee like a twig, if he can ever get on the field long enough
Can’t wait for Brady "played two and a half games" Quinn to light you boys up for the next decade. "Flat out terrible" my #$%
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
by showtime on Jun 6, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe...
Maybe instead of “flat-out terrible” I should have categorized Brady Quinn as “unproven, but headed for disaster and a short life as a starter in the NFL.” In hindsight, I realize my mistake.
by Jason R on Jun 6, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I wouldn’t have said anything in response to this. I also wouldn’t have said anything if I wasn’t on two vicodin and 6 Leinenkugel’s Reds. But the most level headed among you has to admit that at worst Quinn is an unknown as an NFL QB.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 6, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of Cleveless, yes
But in Cleveless, he is almost as god like as Shawn Rodgers is to you guys.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 6, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meaningless post.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 6, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont bring up that fatass
Rogers friggin is a slob pig fat son of a bitch has a big momma ignorant watermelon loving KFC suckin bastard.
I hate em and he stanks. He slacks off and he hit Ben late one time and hes basically a gross animal.
by Mechem on Jun 7, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Ben number ONE!!
I totally agree with that assessment! Heres why: First, Tom Brady was exposed against the Giants that if you get pressure on him, hes dead! Not saying that Brady is not a great QB, he is maybe the best! BUT, could he have won as the Steeler QB last year?? No running game? No O line??? same for Peyton…Look at the game BB lost against the jags in the playoffs..O Zero running game, injured line and BB took then down the field for the lead and Bruce arians with the terrible play calling cost us that game..
by nycsteelerfan on Jun 6, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
IMO most of the nonexistent run game is not do to the OL but to Arians.
by steelerstyle on Jun 6, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This may be one of the most well thought out posts I have seen on here.
However, until Ben gets 3 or more rings, Brady is still above him. Without Brady, that team does not do anything. Without Ben, Pitt may still be able to survive.
But I do like that you have Flacco in the “good, but not elite” category. I think Cassel needs to be in Breakout rather then good. I think nearly every QB in this league could look good with Moss and Welker catching for them, except DA and Quinn of course.
Then Derrick “cut from Ravens practice squad” Anderson and Brady “Now I’m done” Quinn. They really are just flat out terrible.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 6, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And Ray Lewis is a murderer. See, anyone can blather on with pure, valueless comments.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 6, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
But we have no evidence that Ray murderer anyone. We actually have evidence that DA and Quinn are garbage.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 7, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A former probowler two years ago and two starts? Mr.MaLor fail.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 7, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe my fav picture out there. Notice Ravens celebrating the win in the back.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 7, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m aware the Browns blew a 27-14 third quarter lead against the Ravens. Everything went wrong for us last year, everything went right for the Ravens, and they won both games. As opposed to 2007, when the Browns won both games. 2009 will probably be somewhere in between.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 8, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Brady has proven he can do it, without him a 16-0 team was good. Ben got carried to his first SB, he made some plays, but he stunk enough too. He won us last years game, and carried us through the season and playoffs.
I have to say though, he’s no where near as good as Flacco, that kid is almost as good as Brady Quinn, almost, I say because no one, and I mean no one is even in the same Ballpark as Brady Quinn. I hear they will rename the Lombardi Trophy to be The Brady Quinn Memorial Title, memorial after the people not named Brady Quinn who will no longer touch it.
Also, where was Ray Lewis when Joey Porter got shot?
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 7, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant before the Moss pick-up
That comment was not to offend steeler fans. Just browns fans.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 7, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I was trying to get on the Browns too, but I still can’t type about the Ravens without ripping on them at least once or twice.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 8, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
So called experts will rate Ben no higher than 5th or so, even if he single handedly wins 5 more SB’s in the next 5 yrs, please, please, please. But we all know he’s #1 in all of the non measurables and some of the measurables as well.
In five seasons, with one he should not have even played in, he’s achieved HOF status. Don’t forget the years since Terry was king, and Ben.
Go Steelers.
And please get us all through the off season saine.
by SNW on Jun 6, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ben is hated by experts who play to the fantasy football crowd, because his numbers aren’t “elite,” but talk to football betters, and it’s a totally different story. Ben being on the field is only trumped by Tom Brady for his impact in the win loss column.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 7, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the tv people and they stank
They sit there and I guarantee everyone will have their lips firmly pressed up against Brady’s pretty ass all offseason. And then of course Peytons country fried steak ass gets kissed too. Because for some reason, he is good. They care only about those 16 games before the real season begins. Peyton SUCKS in that second part and they dont care. Nobody brings it up ever.
In contrast you have a guy like Large Benjamin who goes out and has the most horrific O-line, something Brady and Peyton have, and he goes out and dominates teams and wills HIS way to the endzone with little help. Hell i bet if we didnt have WR’s he’d find a way to catch it himself.
But these people in their fancy suits and their big round desk are too busy having Peydy fantasies in their mind to remember there is more to it than 4000 yard passing seasons and record breaking TDs.
by Mechem on Jun 7, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indy never would have beat NE in the AFC title game if Marvin Harrison hadn’t told Peyton to run the ball. Having your QB call plays is retarded, if Ben got to choose the play he would call his own number way too much, because you have to have that much confidence and ego to excel at QB.
Peyton goes pass, just like Larry Bird called plays for himself, why else does a pro-bowl running back averaging 5 yards a carry not get 25 touches in a playoff game?
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 8, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom, Ben, Peyton.
Why dont Patriot fans continually post blogs debating wheter Brady is better than Ben.? Because they know he is. They had to do it for years against the Manning camp, until they got Moss and Welker and crushed all Peytons records to go with the 3 Lombardis. Now, we steeler fans are trying to push our way into the debate, and were getting all the same crap Brady got for years. Defense too good, not enough stats, All hes done is make afew key drives, and benefit from a few bad calls. Like Brady and Ben are no more than Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, oh right except that they’ve been to 6 superbowls, won 5 trophies, and have each only missed the playoffs when they were injured . Brady has the hardware ,intangibles, and now , with Moss and co., the firepower and the stats. Manning has great skill but has gagged too many times. Ben has the intangibles, had great numbers in 07, and 2 trophies, but its still not enough to jump ahead of Brady. He just doesnt read and deliver as quickly. He missed Nate deep twice a game last year, and Nate was open. Brady or Manning wouldnt have delivered late or underthrown nearly as often. Theres no doubting Bens “Elway” like clutch factor, which puts him above Manning overall, but Brady has that and more. So its Tom Ben, then Peyton in the AFC. followed by Rivers and Palmer.
by Micculus on Jun 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only excuse for rating Ben above Tom Brady is if you think that injury is going to seriously downgrade his game.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 8, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that’s why I made the point above, that a huge factor is whether or not Brady can protect his leg; he had a lot of trouble with a great pass-rushing team, the Giants, before he was injured. Also, we of course can’t look at these quarterbacks in a fishbowl. This isn’t a skills competition. So the talent around a guy, plus the system, injuries, all factor in. If we had to replace Ben and could take anyone in the AFC, this is my progression through the list.
by Jason R on Jun 8, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My rankings, as of today
This is based on who is the best right now. Not who is the most decorated, or who has BEEN the best, its about right now.
For that #1 would be simply Roethlisberger. Coming off a solid season and winning a superbowl in dynamic fashion. He has a ton of comeback wins and has done great.
2 has to be Brady. And he’d be one I was doing this thing the same time LAST year. But he is a question mark regardless of what people say. That having been said, his question mark usually straightens out to an exclamation point.
3. is a tough call here. Peyton of course is still perennially excellent but I think this year he takes a drop. Whereas Phillip Rivers has finally seemed to hit a stride despite never having a receiver worth two cents. He has improved and also, HE BEAT PEYTON’s team last year. So I have to give him the nod.
4. Peyton is an excellent numbers QB but to me lacks some leadership aspects, relies heavily on good receivers (Brady’s won with nobody, Phil has too) and has a losing playoff record. Hes also getting older. I cant honestly put him above any of these other three.
5 is a throw in but I’m gonna say, again as of today, I give it to Flacco. Yes he has a great team around him but he did make some plays to keep them going. He has a potential to be very good, but he may have been a fluke. But as of today, he lost in an AFCCG to somebody who didnt cheat and eventually won the SB which is basically like 3rd or 4th place in the league.
by Mechem on Jun 7, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Home Town Favorites
There is no doubt how much success our steelers have had with Ben. So obviously he is the best QB.
Oh wait we’re in the North and Ravens can say how much success Flacco had the past yearas a rookie: He’s the best.
Bungles can say Palmer that year Palmer was healthy we went post season & blah blah blah: He’s the best.
Clowns can say D.A. Quinn except for last year had all that other success blah blah blah: He’s the best.
Ahh but in the AFC, who is the best: I read a fanpost over at Stampede Blue. They were also considering who the best QB was Peyton or Brady. Most of the comments were along the lines of’ "We have had so much success with Peyton blah blah blah: He’s the best QB. They didn’t even mention Ben.
As a fan I conclude that everyone is going to think their own QB is the best or nearly so. And I am OK with that. I see it preferable that others and their teams don’t give much credit to Ben. I think it motivates him and I don’t think they prepare as well as possible for our offense.
by steelerstyle on Jun 7, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
I still think Brady so far has BEEN better. But I think this year Ben will do better simply do to age and not being injured. Its really a simple thing.
And to me any Colts fan would rather have two super bowls in 4 years than 1 in 9 postseason appearances.
by Mechem on Jun 9, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistically yes
Wheather you are talking about rings, TDs, yards, wins, or whatever else a number can measure and I agree he is “the better QB”.
Yet there is still room for fans to make legitimate arguements about mitigating factors, future potential, coulda shoulda beens,ect. I think those arguements are part of being a fan.
The colts fans are enthralled by the number of years they have been a top contender as evidenced by 9 post season appearances.
by steelerstyle on Jun 10, 2009 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Be Honest
If your criteria is:
the goal were to win a Super Bowl on the field, not a fantasy championship on your laptop, which of these guys would you want behind center?
How are you ranking Ben ahead of Tom Brady? I love Ben, I really do. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the other guys, because I think he is perfectly suited for this team (and this city). But I wouldn’t say he is better than Brady.
At this point in his career, he has more upside, because he is still young. But if he keeps getting slammed around like a Zim-Zam ball, he may not hold up. But, to answer your question of ranking the best QBs — as opposed to ranking the best QB for the Steelers, which is something different, I would say:
Great QBs (guys who will end up in Canton) in order:
1. Brady – You can’t argue with the rings, or the difference he made. With Beldsoe, the Patriots scared no one. With Brady, suddenly Belichick was a genius.
2. Manning – Dis him all you want. The fact is this guy can win a game for you on his own.
3. Big Ben – I have no idea how it is he does the thing that he do… I just love watching it.
Undecided:
4. Phillip Rivers. When I saw this guy yapping on TV, one word came to mind: Jackenape. He should be in the dictionary next to the word.
Maybe could be Good in the right system:
Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel, David Garrard. These guys will win you games if they have the talent around them. They will never step up and steal a game that you should have lost though, which is what makes the great ones great.
Less heart than a Tin Man:
Kerry Collins — Sorry, when you quit on your team, it is the inforgiveable sin for a QB.
by MarkJoel66 on Jun 8, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry,
Joe Flacco and Matt Cassel both have one year of NFL experience. I think it is a little early to say they NEVER step up and steal a game.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by drinkyourmilkshake on Jun 8, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only thing that changes things is Brady’s injury. No idea if this year he’ll be the same as he was 2 years ago. But I agree with the list of 3 HOF candidates. Ben might have to win one more SB before he’s a lock. Right now there’d be a lot of pundits claiming he rode the Bus and the best defense to these first 2. Hopefully he just grabs 3-4 more before he’s done and we don’t have to worry about it. :) Also hoping to win the lottery tonight. Just sayin.
by Chicago Steeler on Jun 8, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
So when the Ravens defense gave up 27 points by the middle of the third quarter, Joe Flacco did not step up and lead the Ravens to a score of 30-27 before Suggs sealed it with a pick 6? Flacco took over that game in the 2nd half, and YES, stole it from the Browns.
Then in Tennessee, did he not literally steal one from the Titans with that drive in the last 2 minutes. Many people will call it robbery for how Joe got an extra second after the play clock struck 0.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but...
It was against the Browns, so I can’t really credit you for that. They are the Browns after all.
And you don’t get credit for stealing a win. Stealing is wrong. Ask Weegie. (Just kidding Weegie, I completely understand where you’re coming from, just a kind-hearted joke.)
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 8, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same Browns that should have won a 10-6 nail biter in week 2 against the eventual SB Champs, if only they didn’t have the least intelligent coach in NFL history on the sidelines?
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 9, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes... Those Browns
Just a joke, no harm meant by it. Just a little jab here and there to keep it interesting. Actually, it was a jab at a Ravens fan, while taking a jab at the Browns. It should be double points, but who’s counting anyway. All in good fun.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, I know. And of course I know the futility our team has exhibited for the last decade. I just think this team is much closer to the 10-6 one in 07 than the 4-8 one of last year (the last 4 games don’t count, b/c we had non-NFL caliber individuals at QB for those games).
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, how do you feel about Mangini?
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 10, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cautiously optimistic, but not wild. This is the first regime change that I’m not for, and I truly hate Lerner. If I had my way, Savage would still be the GM, Rex Ryan would be the coach and I’d be pumped about Bart Scott teaching D’Quell Jackson and Kam Wimbley. I am the great minority as far as Browns fans go.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 10, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You crack me up
Still promoting the Unibrow? Can we at least wait until he has two winning seasons before starting the mold on his bust in Canton?
He stole the game in Cleveland? OK.. setting aside for the moment that it WAS Cleveland… how do you figure that? He rallied them to a tie. Matt Stover is responsible for three points, and Suggs is responsible for 7. That is hardly stealing a game.
As for the Tennessee game, the refs stole that one for you, not Flacco. I would think that when your defense holds the other team to ten points, your QB should be able to win it…
by MarkJoel66 on Jun 11, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do I rank AFC Quarterbacks?
By height.
Don’t get the joke… watch Caddyshack. Chevy Chase in his prime.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jun 8, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland will be better with Quinn and a decent coach
Hey Pittsburgh fans, why don’t you keep it decent. Your owner was instramental in Cleveland getting the expansion team to keep that rivary going. You’ve had some good years and we’ve had some bad, but don’t disrepect. I have friends that are Steeler fans that don’t talk the crap that’s on here, don’t ruin what you got. And don’t talk about Rogers with a late hit on Big Ben if you’re not going to talk about Ward and all his antics.
by brownsfan100 on Jul 6, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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