BTSC Steelers Daily Six Pack- Lockout Edition

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT Comment 40 comments

IX- Charlie Batch is the Steelers representative with the NFLPA (National Football League Players Association). According to Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com the Steelers' back-up quarterback told rookies at the NFL Rookie Symposium that "there's is a "100 percent" chance of a league imposed lockout in 2011." Pretty bold words from Mr. Batch, but as the article mentions many owners are far in debt and a lockout would be very counter productive in their effort to...ya know, make money.

X- I've been meaning to feature this post in the six-pack for a few days and it has slipped my mind, but it's some really cool documents from our SBNation friends over at Buffalo Rumblings. The documents are from the grandson of the first head coach of the Buffalo Bills, Buster Ramsey. The thing that makes it relevant to Steeler Nation is one of the letters from the Bills is addressed to the then commissioner, Joe Foss. In the letter the Bills accuse Los Angeles Chargers assistant coach Chuck Noll of conspiring to steal a player from the Bills. I wonder if this Chuck Noll fella went on to do anything in the NFL?

XIII-Grabbed this one from Steelers Depot, on a really cool link about free agent acquisition Stephan Logan. It seems around BTSC that Logan has been written off since we have a pretty full stable in the backfield. But according to Logan's former coach, with the B.C. Lions that might not be the case:

"They like him and they've moved him to slotback. The idea is that they can get him the ball in space and everything. He's opening some eyes. The veterans have gravitated toward him because he's shown stuff in mini-camps. And they plan to use him as a kick returner, too. Kirby told me, 'You're probably not going to get him back.' "

XIV-- One for the Other Thumb has the top ten Steelers plays of the year, Billy Mays, and Gumby all wrapped up into one somewhat neat post. He also has a photo of the Santonio Holmes after his weight gain.

XL-We do seem to have a lot of DC area Steeler fans that follow BTSC so I thought this article was relevant. The author of the blog Stet Sports wrote about why Pittsburgh Sports are everything that Washington D.C. and Baltimore fans strive to be and wish their owners would help them be. I see the struggles of the D.C. sports teams on a daily basis and I am frequently blown away by the lack of support the area seems to show for any of their sports teams except for the perpetually mediocre Washington Redskins.

XLIII-Santonio Holmes isn't the only Steeler working out at "Tom Shaw Performance at Disney's Wide World of Sports", he is joined by current Steelers William Gay, James Farrior, and Ike Taylor, along with former Steelers Bryant McFadden and Ricardo Colclough. (Really? Colclough is still in the league?) The Tribune Review wrote an article on the William Gay and his traing at the Disney facility. Gay seems really eager to learn from his teamates and take over the starting spot. Also, Steelguy99, pointed out another link on "Big Play" Willie Gay, be sure to check out "scrunge's" comments, as they are pretty spot on with what I think about the prospects for Mr. Gay this upcoming season.

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Being in NoVA and surrounded by 'Skins and Caps fans

I loved reading that post by one of their own. Pretty funny about them ’wanting to let their inner jackass out too", but lumping ’Burgh fans with New England fans is grounds for a smack down.

by 703Steeler on Jul 1, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In particular from scrunge’s comments, I like the summation:

In all, in that 4 game stretch, the opposing passing offenses were held to 73 of 148 (49.3% completion percentage) for 711 yds ( 178 yds per game) with 2 TDs and 8 INTs. You would think that with William Gay in the lineup starting for the injured McFadden that teams would have been able to feast on him. But it didn’t happen.

Rivers had a 105.5 passer rating for the year but against Pittsburgh he had a 44.4 rating. Romo had a 91.4 passer rating for the year but against Pitt he could only manage a 44.9 passer rating. Fitzpatrick did better than those two with a 63.8 passer rating and Cassell was the worst of the 4 as he managed only a 39.4 passer rating.

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jul 1, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Obviously we need to see how Gay does as a full-time starter, but I think that steelers fans should very much be looking forward to the 2 CBs that were drafted this year. Late round draft picks don’t seem to be Colbert’s forte, but lately the track record is trending upward with CBs. Going into this season the steelers are going to be sporting a 4th and 5th round pick as their starting CBs.

This gives me a lot of hope for Lewis and Burnett.

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jul 1, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

An over looked consequence of a league imposed lock out...

Which I believe has been mentioned here before, is the complete opposite of what we all believe would happen to player salaries.
  If the lock out occurs, there is no salary cap (Oh no, they’re going to pay players more and steal them from us), but there is also no salary base. What this may mean, is that owner’s could come together (not exactly conspire, as the rules making it a conspiracy would no longer be in place) and collectively decide to pay players less as a whole. Is this likely, you ask. Well, as the son of a proud union president, who has seen first hand the way big money, big business people want to treat their employees, I would never rule it out.
  As DYMS had stated, a lot of owners are having harder than usual times right now. Having no league would certainly hurt their wallets. But a lockout doesn’t mean no NFL that year. Given the odvious popularity for football in this country and around the world, if you put scrub/ scab players in the jersey’s of the teams we love, people will show up. Maybe not you, certainly not myself, but someone will. This, added with the ever growing disfavor for/ lack of info and support for unions in this counrty, could create the perfect storm for owners to make a quick buck, while not having to pay nearly as much in player salaries, actually leading to a greater margin for owners to take home (Making them MORE money anyway)
  Of course this is just a possible outcome, with no real way of knowing any percentage chance of any of this happening. And as there always will be, there are exceptions. Truly great players may get their money anyway, as someone will pay them for their ability. There is also owners who have some selflessness, our’s for example (Thank God for the Rooney’s, one family of truly good people) would still give players their dues. But if you assume Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones will pay anything for any player, know this. If they didn’t feel they had to, in order to remain relevant and to compete, and more importantly make bank off of us fans, they certainly would not. Especially if what they dish out relates to what they take home. If paying players less means a bigger piece of the pie for owners, you bet they’ll gluttonize themselves on said pie, until they can no longer move.
  Hopefully some of ya’ll read this whole post, and it makes as much sense to you as it did in my head. Please discuss, I’m interested in your feedback.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 1, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If the owners are thinking of leverage against the players union, where does the upstart UFL stand in the process? I looked at the news when I saw it, thought of the USFL, and laughed, but if they are the same caliber as the scab NFL games will they have any traction?

by StinkBomb on Jul 1, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they'll have it tough...

But much like when the USFL started, I think they’ll gain acceptence slowly. I wasn’t around for the USFL (I’m 23), but I do know that they had a few past their prime stars switch over for good money (Larry Csonka comes to mind, I’m not sure how past his prime he was at the time, and I’m a big Csonka fan). In a similar light, the UFL will be getting some NFL stars, but not for the same reason. Mike Vick, Plaxico Burress (maybe), and Donte Stallworth, in my opinion, have a high likelyhood of playing some downs this year in the UFL.
But the bottom line is people tend to gravitate to what they know, and tend to shy away from new things, at first at least. Any NFL, even with scab players, should have more success than this upstart league. If there is a labor lockout, you may even see other NFL’ers (contracts permitting) playing in the new league too. But that is alot of hypotheticals coming together. I would think a scab NFL would still draw better numbers early on. That is of course if there isn’t some sort of “revelation moment” that makes us all look at it seriously early on. Like for instance (and this is straight up dreaming) Mike Vick scrambles around ala D MCNabb on Monday Night Football, throws up a prayer, and in the endzone as time runs out Plax leaps over Pacman Jones and pulls in a TD as time expires. That sentence alone has Jim Fassell (a new UFL coach) salivating at what could be.
The UFL could be the real wildcard in this whole scenario. It will be interesting to see the big picture play out.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 2, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Local DC Steelers fan right here

I am situated right between Baltimore (hence the O’s icon) and Washington DC. As far as football goes, both the Redskins and the Ravens get their fair share of support from the surrounding city as I believe every game sells out. Of course it is not like the Steelers’ following, but how many teams actually have this sort of following in all of sports? The yankees? Cowboys? Pats? Redsox? Lakers?

I always am ashamed of the lack of support for the O’s though. When I was a kid the stadium was ALWAYS packed. Once Ripken retired and the team fell to many many losing seasons the numbers dissipated. It is pretty sad going to a Redsox or Yankee game and seeing more opposing fans there than home fans. There was a discussion of this on Camden Chat .

But I’d tend to disagree that Maryland and DC sports don’t get support, excluding baseball. The caps have a ton of support, the Maryland Terps (basketball and football) have a ton of support, and the Wiz kids still filling the house pretty well even with that horrible team and a Arenas-less team.

by Johnny_S on Jul 1, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The caps starting getting support two seasons ago and last year they finally got what they deserve which is some loyal following and some media attention, which previous to that they had none for years. Don’t think if they start losing again that the team will get any of that support.

The Wizards do get a pretty steady following although the fans are very passive and not all that passionate.

And the terps do get a good following from their grads who are still in the area, but so do most colleges with decent programs…

And don’t get me started on how crappy the Nationals get treated around here…

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 1, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tomlin and the Tank

You gotta love the work ethic and mindset of the players drafted since Tomlin has been wearing the headset.

Summers and Gay are level-headed guys that want to be the best football players they can be.

I’m literally salivating thinking about what the Tank could do on offense and special teams.

Defensive player playing offense? And he has Disney music on his iPod? Be still, my heart.

Go Stillers!

Ken Barnard

by The Comedian on Jul 1, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Logan

Sorry DYMS but I for one have never written off Stephan Logan. I was excited about him when they picked him up and see a lot of the Chargers Sproles in him. I have posted about him in the past on BTSC.

Some have stated he fumbles and that could spell doom for him coupled with the RB situation. If the Steelers keep 5 RB you have to figure that FWP, Mendenhall, MM and Davis are locks. Summers and Logan will compete for the 5th spot. Even if Logan makes the team he will be hard pressed to dress as Davis would be the FB and is a special teams ace. If Logan can KR/PR with utter abandon and Tank can supplant Davis, Logan can make the 53 and dress. If not possibly a PS spot. At any rate I am excited to watch him in preseason.

I do like that Tomlin has set up some serious competition for the return game. Logan, Mike Wallace and maybe even K Lewis will compete with MacDonald, Ratliff, MM and others. Someone should emerge from that group.

When You Run The Ball Good Things Happen

by 5020 on Jul 1, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

davis and tank

i kinda think that if Tank makes the team then Davis will be cut. Davis is a special teams ace like you said, but Summers could prove to be one too.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Blitzburgh on Jul 1, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

If the tank is in – Davis is out.

Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile - Albert Einstein.

by fanofsteel on Jul 1, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus with the vast improvement of Bruce Davis, we could see him step into a role similar to that of Davis’ right now on special teams

by glass0941 on Jul 1, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

I don’t see Carey “No Yards After The Catch” Davis as being a lock.

I hope Tank gets it done. I don’t want to see another year where we’re forced to pass on 3rd-and-goal from the 2.

by TURFgeek on Jul 2, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest, I’m not a huge fan of Davis.

I think keeping 5 backs would be alright with me, as Willie is coming into a contract year and is approching 30. (Albeit a “fresh” 30, as he was primarily benched in college and shared the load with The Bus the first couple seasons).

I See this season as possibly being Willie’s last as a Steeler, but he would be the #1 back. Mendenhall would be #2, assuming his training camp goes well & he’s healthy. M. Moore and Logan would be near carbon copies, but Logan is quicker and possibly a touch more versatile (can you be more versatile than Moore is already?)…And I see no option but to keep Tank and see what the heck he’s capable of.

But Davis? He runs stiff, YPC is average at best, and just see his style runner on the waiver-wire more often than not.

I guess my rationale behind my post is this: We can pick up another Davis just about anytime we want; we cannot grab one of the others quite so easily.

by __.58.__ on Jul 2, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one likes Davis.

We hand out cards to join the Davis-Haters club at the door.

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jul 2, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So if the tank doesn’t make the squad does he make it through the year on the practice squad?

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 1, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not bloody likely.

Guns don't kill people. Lamar Woodley kills people.

by BostonWahoo on Jul 2, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blasphemy!

If the Tank does’t make this squad, who else is going to pick up a 3rd and 1 when Matt Spaeth and Willie Colon both miss their blocks on the goal line?

by datruth4life on Jul 1, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Troy over the top.

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jul 1, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

We saw how he took flacco out. :)

by Chicago Steeler on Jul 1, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His uncle...

Is a RB’s coach for the Jag’s… You may be on to something here.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 1, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And put Clark in to clear a path.

by Varmint on Jul 1, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hand it to Heath

The big man doesn’t like to go down. Only problem is he is the only guy who will be sustaining a block on the outside. Scratch that.

Take James Harrison off special teams and let him be the short yardage back. Not only does he get the yard, but if the play is important, he’ll probably will himself to go house. While you’re at it put Casey Hampton in at center, call him fat, and occassionally flag him for holding. I think you will see a remarkable improvement in our short yardage conversion stats.

by SteelerBuddha on Jul 1, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do like they bring Ngata over to their goal line offense.

The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler

by steelguy99 on Jul 1, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They tried that two preseasons ago

Both Harrison and Hampton said they wont ever do it again, they like to hitm not be hit.

BTW niether one of them scored in the practice.

"Damnit mom! You almost ran over Greg Lloyd!"

at an autograph signing back in 95. He walked out in front of our minivan, and my mom almost hit him. He apologized.

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Jul 6, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Educate me

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a slot back?

by TURFgeek on Jul 2, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Seems like it is either a made-up term or something very new, but…

my assumption would be he is trying to describe the position reggie bush plays….

Lines up in the back-field, might go in motion splits out as a receiver on occasion….

It would make sense as Dale Lolley has reported Logan working out with the receivers as well as the backs and special teams.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 2, 2009 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks!

by TURFgeek on Jul 2, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slotback is a CFL position

Shivers was a former St. Louis Cardinals running back who has been in the CFL for 25 years, starting as a running back coach with the B.C. Lions and moving on to a number of personnel and management positions. In the CFL the slotback is the 12th position on the offense (on defense, there are five defensive backs). Shivers’ use of slotback would probably have been his interpretation of what he was told by Wilson about the way the Steelers might use Logan. In the CFL, the slotback often lines up just off the outside shoulder of one of the offensive tackles before going into motion and is usually a receiver whose patterns start in the “slot” between the offensive line and WR. Sometimes he will shift into the backfield prior to the snap and be a running option. Some teams will use a TE or FB type of player in this position but for the most part the slotback is a reliable receiver whose size or speed will dictate how he is incorporated into the offense. Logan is too small to be a blocker so my guess is that he would line up as the third or fourth receiver, in the slots, and either run a short pattern into the flats or shift back into the backfield to give the Steelers a running option out of what would normally be a passing formation. He has quickness, but not enough speed to split seams and go deep. I could see him being an excellent option on screen passes out of 3WR or 4WR formations. As a runner, he is not as sturdy as Sproles and has a history of fumbles so he won’t unseat Moore as a third-down back. I think he has to make the team as a returner in order to contribute to the offense. If he doesn’t win a return job, he might make it to the practise roster and be happy to stay there as RB/WR and kick return insurance rather than return to the CFL.

by steeler.lifer on Jul 2, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

great another return man who can’t hold onto the ball…YUK

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 6, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bad time for a lock-out.

With the economy down owners of poor teams are more likely (imo) to side with big teams against the players than gang up on the big owners. No floor and no cap might be an attractive short-term option for both small and big market teams, but I don’t see a return to those days with an agreement.

What’s bad is there isn’t much to gain here. Does the NFL need fixing? Not in an NHL lockout way. Big teams want to win, poor teams want to not lose money, could a increase in cap and reduction in floor be a resolution, possibly. That would be bad for league parity. Could a tie in to spending your own money to revenue shared come into play, possibly, that also would be bad, it would just kill the worst off teams.

What about the players, they are in a defensive position, how do they protect their percentage of money? A rookie cap might be popular, but how long will contracts be, when can they get FA? I can’t imagine players and owners agreeing on a solution to that anytime soon.

Summary, if there is a lockout, it will be long and ugly. And hurt the Steelers bid for 7.

I don’t see replacement players, in any form. That would be a nightmare for the league from a PR standpoint.

by Phantaskippy on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

And there is definately some very good points to what you said. Solutions to the problems have to be found before the real problem takes shape.

The only thing I slightly disagree with is your point on replacement players. The PR associated with scab players would pale in comparison, and in my opinion in some cases help remedy, the absolute PR nightmare a lock out would be. Neither will be good for the league from my, and your, standpoint. But, I think after the national nightmare a lock out would induce, there would be a relief that any football that looks like the NFL would bring. There would be a number of fans who would be happy just to see some “NFL” action, regardles of who it actually was on the field.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 2, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the owners are fighting for more money and selling tickets to see lesser players, I think it would be a bad move. A lock out is owners stopping the games, if they stop the players from playing and then bring in scrubs? That’s a serious screw you to both fans and players. It would make them seem like greedy owners who didn’t care about the quality of the game, or the players.

At least that’s how I would see it.

by Phantaskippy on Jul 2, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too...

But never underestimate the way guys (and gals I suppose) who have focused their entire lives in an attempt to make as much money as possible will do in order to make more money. Everyone and their mother knows the NFL is king of the court when it comes to pro sports. Owners know it too. What did Gordon Gecko say? “Greed is good”. I can get into a long speach about our culture and capitalism, but that really wouldn’t do any of us good. Let me put it this way, if a CEO could drop all his employees he paid $12 per hour to, and give the jobs to people making $1 per hour, alot would. In fact a lot have. The CEO still makes his money, if not more. The employees? Afterthoughts. People will still buy the product, and thats all that matters. No games, no income (generally speaking of course). If they can put the “teams” on the field, people will come. They will. Not me, and by the sound of it, not you, but others will.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 2, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lockout Wouldn't Be Til 2011...

Who’s to say it won’t hurt the Steelers bid for, say, 9? ;)

by Hines Ward on Jul 2, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Logan competing for WR/TE spot?

Funny, when I read that statement about Logan I thought that it really threw a wrench into the WR/TE positional analysis, not the RB roster. Yes, I understand that Kirby made the statement, and Logan is listed as a RB. But our RB positions are pretty set, and a slot back is more of a receiver position that can be filled by RB. So I figured he might be threatening McHugh and Johnson for a roster spot. Think of Logan as our version of Dante Hall instead of Sproles. Maybe they carry one extra RB and one less TE/WR?

With Sweed, Wallace, and Logan, they would have size, speed, and quickness to create all kinds of match up problems in a 4-5 receiver set (oh yeah, along with two SB MVPs and Heath Miller).

by jwillcourt on Jul 2, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It says Los Angeles Chargers, not St. Louis Rams…….Was this a typo by you?

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 2, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yep it was...sorry

I read the article a few days ago and didn’t do my due diligence…thanks for the heads up.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Jul 2, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If There Is a Lockout...

I will be re-evaluating my fandom. Football season is one of the few things I actually get geared up for year-in and year-out, and if that’s taken away from me, I may stop watching altogether.

I’m too young to remember the ’87 strike (I was born in ’86). For those who were of age to be fans at that time… how did your love for the game change after work continued, especially since there was a strike just five years prior, in ’82?

by Hines Ward on Jul 2, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs