Re: Punch in the Face

by gimpsta7 on Jul 10, 2009 2:58 PM EDT Comment 20 comments

If you still are wondering who it should be. I hope this clears it up a little. A bum being forced to pay 4k which should go to the food the man needs to survive. Sure the man was wrong, but they were friggin flower pots. Really Tom?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4318919

BOSTON -- A man who unwittingly stole two flower planters worth $8,000 from behind Tom Brady's Boston condominium said Friday he has to panhandle to pay restitution.

Dennis Paiva told the Boston Herald he scours the streets for trash to sell. He said he took the planters from behind a condominium because they were next to the trash and sold them for $450.

Police caught him on surveillance video. The 61-year-old convicted bank robber, who got out of prison five years ago after serving a 10-year term, said he had no idea they belonged to the New England Patriots quarterback, the Herald reported.

"I saw these two stainless steel metal containers behind a garage next to the trash," Paiva told the newspaper. "Scrap metal was really high at the time so I grabbed them and put them in my truck."

Shortly thereafter, Paiva said he received a call from a Boston police detective.

"The guy mentions I took some flower pots," Paiva recounted for the Herald. "I said, 'I don't know what you're talking about.' He said, 'We got you on the security camera.' And I said, 'Yeah, I took them, but they were out with the trash.' He said, 'You gotta get them back. You don't even want to know who they belong to!' "

Paiva agreed to pay $4,000 restitution to Brady's real estate trust. But he said he can't work after recent surgery so he begs passers-by for money.

A photograph on the Herald's Web site pictures Paiva on a street holding up a sign that reads, "I'm not a drunk or a bum. I had an aneurism [sic] followed by brain surgery. I lost every thing. I'm trying to get my life back. Any help you could give I'd appreciate very much. Denny"

A Patriots spokesman said he doubts Brady is aware of Paiva's situation.

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Right in the crater hole of a chin

61-year-old convicted bank robber

Seriously tho, the guy robbed a bank, I have little to no sympathy to people who break the law when the rest of us struggle to get by legally.

I hate Tom Brady as much as the next, but the guy is a criminal.

by Johnny_S on Jul 10, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree completely. The guy doesnt deserve sympathy. Im just saying that 1st, why does Tom Brady have 8k planters? Second, why is he actually making a homeless man pay him back for them, he is Tom friggin Brady. And third, the Patriots Official who said, "Im sure Tom doesn’t have any idea of the situation. Yes, Im sure that the organization is being asked questions and he is getting paid for it, plus they were stolen from next to his house, yet apparently he has no idea of the situation. Hmm….

Just use the guy as an example and get some great publicity out of forgiving him. Make yourself look better. This is more of a reason he is an asshole.

by gimpsta7 on Jul 10, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you gimpsta7. An ex convict who stole some planters for scrap metal isn’t exactly public enemy number 1. And I think most celebrities would let him off and get some publicity points.

One thing thats strange is that everyone is bashing on this guy about his past, but he spent 10 years in prison for his crime. What was the point of sentencing him to all those years if he’s still going to be penalized for it when he’s let go?

it never got weird enough for me

by JerseyFresh on Jul 11, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Believe it or not, the majority of criminals who serve there time, get out and commit another crime (i.e. this guy). Just because they spent X amount of years in prison does not mean you corrected their mindset on rights and wrongs.

The guy is a criminal and does not deserve to be let off, IMO. The rest of us work within the legal system to make our money. He should give that a try and then I will have sympathy for him.

by Johnny_S on Jul 11, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't buy that lousy argument.

Brady’s cars could be next to the trash- oh, he’s throwing it out. Some people keep stuff outside near trash areas, but don’t intend to toss them. He knew what we was taking.

by SteelersVT on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I Don't Have a Problem with Brady On This One

The guy stole his planters, and they need to be replaced. It doesn’t really matter what the extenuating circumstances are, nor does Brady need to justify why he’s paying $8,000 for the planters. Brady bought them…they were stolen…and now they need replaced.

by Weegie on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

We’re talking about criminal charges here, so the party prosecuting Paiva is not Brady, it’s the local city attorney or county attorney. It’s possible that Brady was contacted as the victim of the crime, but he has no real say in whether the prosecutor goes forward with the case, and he has no real say in whether the court orders the defendant to pay restitution for the offense.

Believe me, I’d like nothing better for Pittsburgh to crush Brady and the Pats, but this incident does not reflect badly on Brady.

by gcn on Jul 10, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

Tom could have told the police that he didn’t want to press charges. The prosecutors can’t go forward with cases unless the ‘victim’ wants to.

Thank you drive through...

by SteelFever on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, no problem with Brady on this one

And the guy should be paying 8k, he’s getting a discount.

by jharmon64 on Jul 11, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

$8000 for 2 flower pots

That just shows NFL players get way too much damn money

On a side note, i cant blame anything on Brady for this, i mean you do what you gotta do to survive….but the guy was a criminal…..and he got off with a half price discount

Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever

by Steeler_ on Jul 11, 2009 5:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Seriously, does Tom F’n Brady REALLY use 8k planter boxes? Also, 8k is not even pocket change to him, let it go man.

Brady COULD have been a REAL humanitarian, and gave the guy a job sorting his recycling…

Also, does anyone here know the circumstances surrounding the guys bank robbery? You get 15 years in a Federal prison for that, but this guy got only 10. Getaway driver, perhaps?

One last thing, was there dirt in the planters? or were they just sitting out there with a bit of dirt scum on the bottom and sides?

Thank you drive through...

by SteelFever on Jul 11, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I read this one too...

And I have a hypothetical situation I’d like to see some responses to. I’m not trying to argue with anyone, I have a personal interest in these type things, and I’d like some sort of base to go on.

If someone steals a loaf of bread, in an attempt to feed his 3 kids who are hungry and in need (You see the kids, and know its true). He’s a loving parent, who gives everything he can to his kids, but can’t get a job for whatever reason (health, education level, none available, whatever) How do you charge him? This is all hypothetical, and in good nature, I’m not trying to argue, just curious. Petty theft is a minor crime, but for this case assume the max sentence is a year in prison. What is your sentence?

Not trying to delve too deeply into social issues, just curious. This offseason has brought more legal stories to light than any other I can recall, and we’ve discussed most of them on here. This one is different, no one was hurt (other than financially, and in this particular case, I’d argue Mr. Brady wasn’t hurt too badly by the loss). This one should not have the gut-sick feeling the others have brought out, and shouldn’t get people too angry in terms of back and forth discussion. If I’m out of bounds for the site I’m on, I apologize, ignore me entirely, and I’ll shut up.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 13, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Different situations...

1. The guy in your story appears to be a good citizen. The guy in Brady’s situation is a prior criminal who robbed (or attempted) to rob a bank.

2. The guy stole 8,000$ worth of stuff. That is way more than the cost of a loaf of bread.

3. In your story the guy stole food to feed hungry children, understandable, and hard to blame the guy. This man just stole someone’s property for financial gain. Clearly he is not starving or completely poor because he said “I grabbed them and put them in my truck.” If he was that desperate for money I doubt he would have a car.

by Johnny_S on Jul 13, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually put this below one of your posts...

And then moved it down. I was kinda hoping our paths would cross on this one, as you and I have had some solid, good spirited debates about just this sort of thing.

First off, I wasn’t trying to compare the two crimes themselves. They are different situations for different value goods. Prior crimes warrant higher penalties, so I think we agree there. But let me ask this: If they did not mention his criminal record, would you feel the guy had no arguement at all?

But in terms of this guy stealing the flower pots in an attempt for financial gain. I would argue that the loaf of bread hypthetical is for financial gain as well. Odviously they are different types of financial gain, and for different amounts. The flower pots were “stolen” for direct financial gain, getting cash in hand for their value. While the bread is for indirect financial gain, or in order to save the money he would of spent on said bread. Stealing, for any purpose, is done for financial gain.

It is easy to say, well this guy is a criminal, he robbed a bank. Yeah he did. Fact. It’s a little easier to miss this line from the story:

“I’m not a drunk or a bum. I had an aneurism [sic] followed by brain surgery. I lost every thing. I’m trying to get my life back. Any help you could give I’d appreciate very much. Denny”

Also, many people living with little or nothing have vehicles. The cost of owning a new car is not nearly the same as owning, for instance, a 1979 Chevy pick-up, no debt owed.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, it sucks to lose everything, but there ARE legitimate ways to make money. I know full well I broke my ass to earn everything I have. I suppose that’s why I do not have much of any sympathy for people who do not follow the rules of society.

I am not sure how I would feel had the prior not been mentioned/ever occurred. I suppose it may not be as serious because its not like he knew they were worth 8 grand or he would have sold them for more than $450. In that situation, I would probably reiterate that I think Brady is a douche bag. That being said, people who commit multiple crimes generally show no remorse for their actions and go on to commit more.

by Johnny_S on Jul 13, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a convicted criminal...

Your choice of jobs is already limited. People won’t hire you because of what you’ve done in the past. Most jobs ex-cons recieve are labor jobs, like construction, where you have to be able to work.

Add into that the fact the man was very ill. He is not able. He most likely doesn’t have the chance to get a desk job because of (at least to me a) perceived lack of education, and of course his past mistakes. And now, cannot even work for a living because of his ailment. Limits your oppurtunity to make legitimate money. Or at least enough to pay his big debts and still live some semblence of a normal life. The second most common debt today is medical debt. He could have filed bankruptcy, and we could all pay his debts, but thats a debate for another forum, I’ll avoid the politics trap.

Completely agree with your Brady assessment, spot on.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 13, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I meant there are legitimate ways to make money, so committing a crime (stealing) is pointless. He didn’t need to rob a bank because there are legitimate ways to make money. Jobs are hard to find as ex-cons, as they should be, as there should be no upsides of being a criminal.

You bring up very good points though, these people should be able to work somewhere. Most of the time they are competing against resumes with clean records who win out. You would expect our government to create better “reentry” programs to prevent these guys from being forced back into crime, but that’s rarely the case and as you said a discussion for another forum.

by Johnny_S on Jul 13, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool...

Good discussion. I just needed a bit more elaboration (sp.?) on some previous comments. Thanks.
It irks me to hear the “criminal” arguement. They are people who still have most of their rights. Never been to jail, I’ve got one friend from years past in the tank, but we’re not that close. All I know is if somehow, someway I end up in prison, I’d want someone to have my back if I got out and had nowhere else to turn but to cheat my way through. Heaven forbid with a major health problem too.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 13, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of similar story...

I had a friend working for the town doing roadside pick ups. Not garbage pick up, but the tree limbs and big trash stuff.

He was at a house with a mountain of tree limbs out front. He loaded them all in his wood chipper and started off down the road. As they went to leave, someone came running out of the house saying thay had taken the “expensive” pieces of drift wood they had as decoration on the side of their driveway… right next to the tree limbs put to the road for pick up. They sued the town for the supposed cost of the drift wood. The town settled out of court. My friend got fired.

This guy was supposedly picking up stainless steel buckets that were right next to the garbage. He apparently mistook them for garbage, all he wanted to do was scrap them for a few bucks (although $450 is more than a few so…). And up until someone with a heart (and a fat wallett) stepped up to pay the 4 G’s Tom “Terrific” wanted to take from a guy who was begging on the street, he would of been on the hook for yet another bill he couldn’t pay. This debt, as well as his medical bills would of eventually fallen on the taxpayers, once he declared for bankruptcy (or worse).

By the way, anybody want to venture a guess on what the actual price for the two $8000 stainless steel buckets would be at like a regular store. Probably like 50 bucks. If you want to shop at pretentious boutiques, you pay ridiculus prices for the same stuff that you can probably buy at any retail store. Okay, the last paragraph was full of assumptions. Hope it didn’t lessen the value of the story.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 13, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In addition

NY I tend to agree with you. Living in Chicago we have a lot of folks who drive beater trucks up and down the alleyways looking for any garbage that could be sold. I drive by a huge metal recycling plant on my way home every day and see homeless and unemployed people driving or pushing shopping carts of stuff to get paid for it. For these people, this is their job. And in all honesty it’s a helpful contribution to the city. The city has less waste to dispose of, we have more things recycled than otherwise and the recycling company makes a profit.

I have no idea what the scene looked like with these planters, but this guy probably just thought he was grabbing more stuff. Perhaps not, as has been mentioned it shouldn’t be forgotten that this man has attempted to steal before, so his motive is blurry.

Hard to judge in any event. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s dumb to pay $8000 for a planter.

by Chicago Steeler on Jul 14, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs