BTSC Steelers Daily Six Pack- High School Kids Are Better Than Philip Rivers Edition
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jul 15, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
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PrintIX-Former Steeler Pat Brady passed away yesterday at the age of 81. Brady played for the Pittsburgh Steelers for three seasons in the 1950's and led the league in punting average in two of those seasons. He was a member of the Steelers' 50th anniversary team in 1982 and was also a member of the "Legands Team" for the Steelers' 75th anniversary. Brady also set an NCAA record while playing for the University of Neveda, Reno for longest punt at 99 yards which can never be broken.
X-The Pittsburgh Steelers organization continues to rack up awards and honors for their performance during the 2008 season when they won their record sixth Super Bowl title. The most recent honor went to the Steelers team physician, Dr. Anthony Yates, who received the Jerry "Hawk" Rhea award for outstanding team physician in the NFL. John Norwig, head athletic trainer for the Steelers had this to say about Yates:
"The bottom line about Tony Yates is that he treats all the athletes with their best interest in mind and has a 'leave no stone unturned' attitude toward patient care, He is not just our team physician but an integral part of the Steeler family."
XIII-The Baltimore Ravens have signed Terrell Suggs to a long term contract worth an estimated 63 million dollars over six seasons with around 38 million dollars being guaranteed. WOW! Everyone's favorite rumor monger makes a case that Suggs deal is actually better than Albert Haneyswoth's huge deal from earlier this offseason.
XIV-Many of you have probably heard about the college basketball player who dunked on LeBron James last week. Even though LeBron's camp confiscated the tape and won't let it see the light of day it has been all the buzz around the internet. Philip Rivers did Lebron one better, not only did he allow a tape of him getting beat leak out, he got beat by a high school kid. (Courtesy of Shutdown Corner)
XL-Best quote of the offseason goes to Santonio Holmes from this article from the Tribune Review regarding the ESPY's and the different Steelers who are nominated. In the article Santonio talks about how much his life has changed since winning the Super Bowl MVP and how many different events he was nominated for. Here's the Qoute:
"I did Jay Leno and Regis and Kelly and '106th and Park' (on BET). I had an invite to the BET Awards. I had an invite to the Grammys. I was out there around that time, but I chose not to go," Holmes said. "That's not the lifestyle I live. I play football."
XLIII-Pittsburgh Sports and Mini Ponnies is not impressed with Lamar Woodley's fashion sense. Since Lamar Woodley could crush me into a bloody pulp I will stay out of the discussion.
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Looks like Suggs gonna be rich
I dont see this guy being worth this much. He basically he just slightly less than Lamarr Woodley numbers, and while I love Woodley I dont think him or Suggs are 10m+ LB’s.
But whatever.
I don’t think he’s worth that money. I wouldn’t take him over Woodley or Harrison. After seeing him play with one arm…the man has heart. I look forward to seeing him get laid out more by Ward next year.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Wow
Saying a guy in the league for 2 years is already better then a 3 time pro-bowler with 6 years experience and the most sacks of any player since coming into the league in 2003. Right……
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Well
Over Suggs career he has done well but so far I’d say Woodley seems to be on the rise quite fast.
And Woodley should have gotten that pro bowl over suggs this year.
And as a side note I believe Woodley is the first player in NFL history to have 4 consecutive multi-sack playoff games. Has Suggs even played in 4 playoff games?
Knowing Ravens fan logic...
because he scored 2 TDs he automatically had a better season than Woodley. However, if you play well at the end of the season you are better than the other person. So I wonder actually who they thought had the better year…
by John Stephens on Jul 15, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You are focusing solely on last season.
Yes, Woodley was a beast and I never even brought up the TD’s. I just find it a little strange that a guy who had played for 2 years is already better then a 3 time pro bowler.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I’m curious where I said that Woodley was better than 3-time these-awards-mean-nothing-and-when-you-use-them-to-justify-your-player-you-are-on-shaky-ground Mr. Suggs?
What I said was I would take Harrison or Woodley over him. I notice you are taking swipes at Woodley because he has only been in the league for two years. You don’t call out james harrison even though he has effectively only been starting in the league for two years. That’s because James Harrison is clearly the better player.
In Woodley’s case, I don’t think you can argue that Suggs was better than Woodley was last year. If they were about even, would I rather take the player who is even younger and still likely far away from their peak? Yes…but I understand that coming from Baltimore the idea of taking the oldest possible player who can play ball is appealing.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
by steelguy99 on Jul 16, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
IMO Suggs deserved his Pro Bowl, even over Woodley. Woodley was very good, and he contibutes more than sacks, but Suggs had a year similar to Harrison in 2007. He lead his team in sacks, but he also lead his team in TFL’s with 13 (!), had 9 PD’s, and had those two interception TD’s. Like Woodley, he had an outstanding performance in the playoffs.
Woodley finished with more sacks, but was going against RT’s instead of LT’s and had an even better pass rusher on the other side. He was good in the running game and in coverage, but he didn’t put up ILB numbers there like Suggs did.
I’m with you; I wouldn’t trade Woodley for Suggs because they’re close now and Woodley is only going to get better, but Suggs had a legitimately great year in 2008 and at 26, he’s not going anywhere for a long time.
charity standing orders
I genuinely do think Suggs is great, you know.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
I just think that using “pro-bowls” as a quality indicator is a piss-poor argument.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Didnt mean to have that be my only argument.
Maybe this can help.
Name Tackles Sacks INT/TD Pass Def.
Terrell Suggs 341 41 4/2 26
Dwight Freeney 146 46.5 0/0 9
Albert Haynesworth 209 20.5 0/0 11
James Harrison 309 27.5 3/1 11
DeMarcus Ware 297 53.5 1/1 12
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Wow, that’s entirely convincing Mr. Malor. Good homework you did, now how about lets find out what these numbers mean since these are stats from 2004 to 2009. I’ll calculate an average for each player based on the years they were actually starters, how about that? If you want, you can extrapolate the numbers, but I won’t because it’s misleading. It’s way less misleading that pretending Harrison has been starting for 5 years though, cute trick. Your stats seem to include post-season, so I’m going to go ahead and do that.
Suggly – 5 years starting, 68.2 tacks, 8.2, .8 int, .4 TD, 5.2 PD
Harrison – 2 years starting, 111.5 tacks (223), 1.5 int, .5 TD, 5.5
Woodley – 1 year, 76 tacks, 17.5, 1 int, 0 TD, 4 PD
Porter – 5 year, 60 tacks, 10.3, 1.4 int, .2 TD, 5.2 TD
Suggs best stat line compiled between all starting years to make him look super – 80 tacks, 10.5 sacks, 4 int, 2 TD, 9 PD
As the stats show, Suggs is a great linebacker.
The ravens fans are cute because they don’t mind paying whatever it takes to keep certain players. If Suggs were getting paid $20 million a year you would still try to justify it, and it would be even funnier. I wonder how Porter compares to Suggs? Hmmm…
I really don’t see why I’d take Suggs over Woodley or Harrison. Harrison is better but will fade out in a few years, Woodley is maybe a bit below Suggs but is on the cheap for a few more years and will likely get better.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
13.5
Whoops, I left out the sack averages for Harrison, but would have just been mean.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Bruce made that chart
And put it on his story. Just thought I show you. Not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not, seems like it.
All these players are great. You Steeler fans are of course going to take Woodley over Suggs and we Ravens fans are of course going to take Suggs over Woodley. That’s what makes the argument great.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I was being sarcastic about the chart because it’s entirely misleading.
The other parts, not so much. Suggs is a great player, but not worth $10 a year. But in my opinion, even if Woodley has a great year next year, he won’t be either.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Only a Charger would get beat by a high schooler at a drill that is designed for his position, Sidenote That highschooler probly haa better mechanics than Phillip Rivers
Suggs' agent deserves a Bud
That dude is not worth $33M guaranteed. I know it made Lamarr Woodley pep up. The Steelers are going to have to open up the checkbook next year for “the Wood” and Santonio. I still expect to hear something getting done with Heath and Clark before the season starts.
I don't expect Holmes to get "rich"
If Holmes cannot agree to something reasonable with the FO, I will not be surprised if he packs up and goes. Woodley, on the other hand, will get paid (with another season like last year). Hopefully for our sake, Woodley does not see this as a reason why he should get grossly overpaid like Suggs (and the majority of NFL players). A reasonable contract to moderately obscene would be fair.
by John Stephens on Jul 15, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Suggs isn’t worth that big a contract, but right now, he’s the only guy on their team that can get to the QB with any consistency and he’s good in the running game as well. He’s still very young and is in the process of becoming the face of the franchise. It’s really not that much bigger than Deebo’s contract, and while the guaranteed money is a lot more, unless the Ravens get extremely unlucky with a career-type injury, they’re going to get 5-6 years of quality football out of him. He should be in his prime for the entire length of the contract. Deebo, on the other hand, could fall off the face of the earth in 2 years.
It’s going to take a lot of money to keep Woodley around, and I don’t see him taking less than Suggs did. From what I’ve seen of him, he still has room to get better, and he’ll be entering his prime when he hits the market (although CBA uncertainty can shift things around). If he continues to progress, 6 years/$63M would be the hometown discount.
charity standing orders
Yeah, true, I never said Suggs was not good (I’d only say he is a whiny bitch) just that his contract is a bit over the top. I guess I am having a hard time with these contracts and caps shooting up and up in such a terrible time for America. It makes these guys look like greedy jerks (not pointing anyone out, just the NFL in general).
Anyway, when they initially signed Deebo, I thought “Wow the Rooney’s are smart.” Clearly, he wanted and deserved a good deal, but it was also clear that he was a bit above the age for a tremendous deal. So they signed him high with a reasonable amount guaranteed. That way if he does “fall off the face of the earth in 2 years” they can force him to restructure or just cancel the deal (the beauty of the NFL).
I really really hope that Woodley does not go “wild-n-out” on what he is looking for when he becomes a free agent and I hope he realizes his best chance to win a championship are here. The waiting game goes on…
by John Stephens on Jul 15, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry if that last comment came off harsh. I was just typing my thoughts on the subject (which are a little torn between the two sides), not necessarily disagreeing with anything that you said. I probably could have just put it as a general comment. As you said,
The waiting game goes on…
There isn’t even any baseball to talk about at the moment.
charity standing orders
The greedy jerks are the owners, not the players. The players just want their piece of the pie. If you think Suggs is gonna be rich you should check out the man that signs his paycheck.
You point out...
What may be one of just 3 or 4 exceptions out of the 32 team league.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 16, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ll get a deal done with Woodley, and if not…we’ll have someone waiting in the wings. I’m not concerned.
The tough thing with Woodley will be that other LB drafted in that year. Not only does he have a scumbag agent (which in turn tells you something…) but that’s just going to be a lot of money to throw out in one year for the LB corps. Harrison’s continuing dominance may have a say in how that goes down, but keeping both of those guys is going to be challenging, to say the least.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Can we just offer him a bit less money but a life time supply of Tapout/Affliction shirts?
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
The tough thing with Woodley will be that other LB drafted in that year.
You mean the guy who I’m talking about?
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
You are just supposed to write your reply at the very bottom and keep it entirely out of thread.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Does anyone remember David Letterman's old show?
The Phillip Rivers story reminded me of when Dave would have Kurt Loder’s sister (who worked on the show) compete with NFL quarterbacks by throwning a football into a garbage can. She beat all but one of them, I think. Some were graceful about their defeat, but more were angry douchebags over getting beaten by a girl. They were damn entertaining clips and are probably worth looking up.
I’m pretty sure Kurt Loder was on at one point and jokingly talked about how all his childhood coaches wished that they could have her on their teams instead of him.
by The King in Yellow (and black) on Jul 15, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions
For the record, it was called: “Mary Connelly Late Night Quarterback Challenge”
She competed with and defeated Phil Simms, and I think she also beat Boomer Esiason and Mark Rypien. Shame that I can’t find any more than that while I’m at work.
by The King in Yellow (and black) on Jul 15, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The enemy of my enemy is...uh...my friend
Therefore, I like Suggs’ agent who did battle with the Ravens organization (the enemy) and helped get them to (over)pay Suggs this obscene amount of money that will hopefully hamstring Pittsburgh’s toughest division rival in the years to come (though maybe not this year).
Did that sound too desperate? Alright, sorry, sorry. I’m just looking for some negative angle here to support my hopes that this could backfire against Baltimore (the enemy) somehow.
Pat Brady embodied typical Steeler luck in those dark days
Great, great punter, averaged 43 ypp in his rookie season (1952), kicking left-footed with a different spin. The next year he leads the NFL in every punting category, including 47 yards per punt, which is insane. He leads the league again in 1954. Then in preseason 1955 he comes down after a punt and snaps his Achilles. Season and career, over and out. Typical Steeler fortunes. Think how much we would have enjoyed that guy this past year.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
I can’t even imagine a 99 yard punt, and I watched Josh Miller boot that 70 yarder that just kept rolling, it never would have made it 90 yards.
by Phantaskippy on Jul 15, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope...
The first half of that story will apply to Sepulveda, while the latter half will remain a part of history.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 16, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
i’m not totally sold on the $$ of the suggs deal. i like the thought of stability on that side of the line/lb. it was important w/ rays years numbered to maintain the Raven personality (even though it struggles against you). he is a tie-over guy who has to be the glue with huge changes coming in the next 2-3 years. Ray will be long gone before the suggs deal is up. i think T-Sizzle steps it up a notch as a leader this year. i hope he develops a meaner streak. i think that is what people come to expect when a guy gets this type of deal. i have to agree he doesn’t pop off the page as a pass rusher but he’s well balanced, conditioned and is better than average in all position categories. i think we are paying him for that and not one dominant aspect like a Freeney. he has good character and is a smart player.
i am very concerned that we won’t scare anyone offensively again this year. we are pinning our hopes on 4 unproven receivers. all of which I’d trade for 1 elderly hines ward. this the one area we could have improved and taken advantage of your one “weakness” which is your secondary. We didn’t and will be forced to ride McClaine and the Lunch Box (the McGahee you folded up) against you. Ray Rice is my only hope that we can change things up against you and Westbrook/Sproles our way to a win. Ben can’t keep wiggling out of sacks…can he. God help us.
Timmons signed a 5-year-deal; Woodley a 4-year-deal
That means the team will negotiate with Timmons two years from now, when he is in the last year of his deal. Woodley will be in the last year of his deal next summer (as well Santonio). Can’t let a rising pass rusher like this Woodley hit the open market.
He’d never come back to the Steelers after getting a scent of the money that other NFL franchises will offer him as a free agent. His agent will also be smiling when Demarcus Ware reaches a long-term deal with the Cowboys.
Can’t let a rising pass rusher like this Woodley hit the open market.
Not true at all. The steelers can and will let Woodley go if he is asking for Suggs money. If Woodley wants something slightly more reasonable, a deal will get done. I know nothing about Woodley, but the less I hear about a player outside of football the better. That said, I’m hopeful a deal gets done, but he isn’t (and shouldn’t), be cheap. As long as Mr. Malor isn’t making predictions for us, we should be okay.
I forgot earlier that Timmons was on a 5-year, which is nice. He is still going to have a substantial impact on the conversations though if the steelers want to think about inking him a year after Woodley.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Determined somewhat by Bruce
If Bruce Davis can get some snaps in this year and show some promise then the money the front office is willing to pay goes down for Woodley. The Steelers have shown that they are willing to let great players walk if they have good players waiting behind them. But they’ve also shown that they see when they have no depth and will overpay to keep that depth (see Max Starks). My guess is that we keep Woodley to the end of his contract, franchise him once and then let him walk when we’ve developed players behind him.
by Chicago Steeler on Jul 17, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s determined more by Harrison. If James is still going strong at the end of this year they can afford to play a bit more hardball. Sure they don’t have the greatest depth behind him, but the steelers can roll with 1 dominant OLB. Would they prefer to? No. But I also don’t think they want to invest $20 mil a year in OLBs.
I have more faith in Patrick Bailey take the OLB backup position than Bruce Davis at this point. Patrick Bailey has done nothing but impress. Davis has done nothing but disappoint. Both could definitely develop into decent starting OLBs in two years when they are needed – at least one of them will be ready. My bet is on the smart guy.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
The Bailey Shuffle
Can’t judge him on a single season, but… assuming Bailey remains strong on ST, I think we can conclude he’s a good runner and a good tackler. We still won’t know if he can play the pass. He might make a good replacement for Timmons, who could move to the outside and replace Woodley.
Definitely can’t hold the single season sacred, but I’d rather have Bailey’s first season than Davis’s.
From http://duke.scout.com/2/751036.html:
Bailey, a native of Elmendorf, Texas, was a four-year letterwinner for the Blue Devils. He played 36 career games with 26 starts. He finished his career with 191 tackles, 24.5 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks, one interception, one fumble recovery and four caused fumbles. He was off to a great start his senior year ranking in the top-10 in the ACC in sacks (4.5) and tackles for loss (7.0) before suffering a season-ending knee injury against Wake Forest. He also has previous experience playing in a similar defensive system as the Steelers.
"My junior year our defensive coordinator ran the same defense as the Steelers and we used to watch film on them," said Bailey. "I always saw myself playing that same position (rush end) and it ended up being a good fit."
Davis was a monster pass rusher in college. He needs to develop in order to do so in the pros. Given his role in college, he very rarely played the pass and to my knowledge caught 0 interceptions in his entire career. Bailey has a huge head start to play OLB vs. Davis. Davis’s pass rushing ability in college would be hard to overstate.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
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