A Closer Comparison Of Ben Roethlisberger And Eli Manning

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 16, 2009 9:28 PM EDT

The following is an entry from Larry A., known better round here as WolfPackSteelersFan. For those of you who are newer to the site, you may or may not have stumbled across some of his exhaustive statistical comparison posts. His most recent entry looked at the best defenses in NFL history. You can find others along the left hand sidebar of the site's main page. WolfPack has recently started a blog of his own where he will be more frequently adding to his collection of interesting and well researched posts. Below is an excerpt of his piece, followed by a link to the rest of his entry over at his space. Be sure to check it out if you enjoy what you read. -Blitz- (Michael B.)

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A few days ago, on ESPN.com’s AFC North blog, James Walker argued that Ben Roethlisberger is ahead of Eli Manning in every way. Then, ESPN’s NFC East blogger, Matt Mosley, argued the opposite. After reading both arguments, I wanted to take a more in depth look at Big Ben’s accomplishments versus Eli’s. James’s arguments are based on Ben’s superior numbers in every category except sacks. Matt’s rebuttal seems to largely rest on the argument that the Steelers were loaded in 2004 while the Giants sucked and that because the NFC East is stronger than the AFC North, Eli has faced tougher defenses, on average. So, I thought it was worthwhile to test the validity of these arguments and see what else the pertinent data can tell us. All data in this post comes from www.pro-football-reference.com.

First, let’s take a quick look at the raw data. Eli Manning’s career statistics can be found here, while Ben’s can be found here. As Walker argued, the raw numbers favor Ben significantly. Since both have started 71 games and the number of games appeared in is only one more for Eli, this is about as close a comparison as can be made. So, given the same number of starts, Ben has the following statistical advantages:

9 more wins

over 300 more pass yards

3 more passing TDs

5 fewer INTs

a higher yards/attempt (1.5 more)

a higher passer rating (13.3 points higher)

one more SB win

4 more playoff wins

one less playoff loss

rushed for 401 more yards and 7 more rushing TDs than Eli

lost 7 fewer fumbles than Eli

and taken 72 more sacks for an additional 409 yards lost, which approximately offsets Ben’s additional rush yards.

So, based on raw numbers, it does appear that Ben has a considerable advantage over Eli. So, the real question is: How valid are Mosley’s arguments that the Steelers were much better than the Giants in 2004 and that the NFC East is much stronger than the AFC North? And, I will add one more: If the NFC East was stronger, what was the difference in the level of defense that each QB has faced, on average, in their career? That is to say, even if one division was stronger or weaker, division opponents only account for 6 games each year. The other 10 games, almost 2/3 of the schedule, come from outside the division.

One of Mosley’s arguments was that the Steelers have had a much stronger run game and faced, on average, an overall weaker defensive schedule than the Giants. You know, because the NFC Beast, as he calls it, is always the toughest division in the NFL. So, I pulled the data for each team during the last five years for both offensive rushing ranks and the average rank of defense that each has faced throughout the year. To be fair, I eliminated those games that Ben and Eli did not play in when considering the average rankings of opposing defenses. Here are the results:

Actually you'l have to go here to see the results and finish the post.

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Comments

Great Analysis!

Good stuff, WolfPack! That “argument” on ESPN seemed pretty contrived in the first place, but it’s good to see that the numbers support common sense in this situation.

Eli Manning is a fine quarterback, but he’s no Big Ben.

by PaulMorel on Jul 16, 2009 10:24 PM EDT reply actions

Well, sure

They have to write about something, since these days football fans want to hear about the NFL even in July. Thanks, I’m glad you liked the analysis. Tell all of your friends! :)

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 17, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Another fantastic post!

I would not have guessed it would be so close. It’s a wash except for QB rating, yds per attampt and the playoffs. And I for one, never to give too much credit or blame to any one individual when it comes to playoffs, even with a position so important as the QB. You can’t measure clutch, and Ben comes through in the clutch so often.

Another note, I would thought that BB would have many more fumbles than Eli based on how often he’s hit and sacked.

by jharmon64 on Jul 16, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

Stats comparison

I actually have been doing a lot of the same legwork as you while debating this topic with the Giants fans on their blog this past week. The only inaccuracy I see in your stats is that Eli has fumbled 7 more times than Ben, but actually lost one less fumble (he didn’t lose 7 more fumbles as you listed). Fairly surprising considering that Ben has been sacked far more often.

Since I’ve taken the time to compile the stats, I might as well share them. Majority of them have been compiled from www.profootballreference.com.

Statistical Advantages for Ben Roethlisberger:

Lombardi Trophies: Ben 2, Eli 1
Super Bowl Appearances: Ben 2, Eli 1
Conference Championship Game Appearances: Ben 3, Eli 1
Division Titles: Ben 3, Eli 2
Regular Season Team Record: Ben 51-20, Eli 42-29
Postseason Team Record: Ben 8-2, Eli 4-3
Regular Season Passing Completion Percentage: Ben 1189-1905 for 62.4%, Eli 1276-2284 for 55.9%
Postseason Passing Completion Percentage: Ben 172-278 for 61.9%, Eli 113-193 for 58.5%
Regular Season Passing Yardage: Ben 14974, Eli 14623
Postseason Passing Yardage: Ben 2239, Eli 1297
Regular Season Passing TDs: Ben 101, Eli 98
Postseason Passing TDs: Ben 15, Eli 8
Regular Season TD Percentage: Ben 5.3%, Eli 4.3%
Regular Season Interceptions: Ben 69, Eli 74
Regular Season Yards per Attempt: Ben 7.9, Eli 6.4
Postseason Yards per Attempt: Ben, 8.1, Eli 6.7
Regular Season Yards per Catch: Ben 12.6, Eli 11.5
Regular Season Yards per Game: Ben 208, Eli 200.3
Regular Season QB Rating: Ben 89.4, Eli 76.1
Postseason QB Rating: Ben 87.2, Eli 77.6
Regular Season Rushing: Ben 616 yds at 3.3 y/a and 10 TDs, Eli 215 yds at 2.0 y/a and 3 TDs
Postseason Rushing: Ben 125 yds at 3.4 y/a and 1 TD, Eli 14 yds for 1.3 y/a and 0 TD (Not 100% on this one)
Regular Season Fumbles: Ben 32, Eli 39
Average Strength of Schedule: Ben 52.4%, Eli 50.3%
Record vs. Opposing Conference: Ben 18-4 for 82%, Eli 11-9 for 55%

Statistical Advantages for Eli Manning

Regular Season Games Played: Eli 73 – Ben 72
Regular Season Interception Percentage: Eli 3.2%, Ben 3.6%
Regular Season Sacked/Yards lost: Eli 120 for 844, Ben 192 for 1253
Regular Season Fumbles Lost: Eli 14, Ben 15
Postseason Interceptions: Eli 7, Ben 12 (3 fewer games)

Stats Even

Regular Season Games Started: Ben 71, Eli 71
Playoff Appearances: Ben 4, Eli 4

by King Coebra on Jul 17, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions

Wow

That’s very comprehensive. Thanks for the correction on fumbles vs. fumbles lost. I saw that Eli had 7 more fumbles and assumed that they were fumbles lost.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 17, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Not a problem

Glad i could contribute some information to the thread.

by King Coebra on Jul 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

This reminds me of

the movie “Donnie Brasco” where the mafia guys are arguing about which is better, a Lincoln or a Cadillac. Both are great and it comes down to personal preference. As a Steeler fan, I obviously think Ben is better and statistics seem to bear that out but the real world rarely has room for statistics so I will lean on something a little more anecdotal. Some of you may remember draft day 2004. Although Ben was the last of the big 3 quarterbacks taken at the top of the 1st round I recall his demeanor as they entered the Green Room. Ben exuded confidence, a bit of cockiness and a lot of charisma. Eli looked like a young kid being backed up by his dad and big brother. He exuded neither confidence nor charisma. His lack of those qualities held him back at the start of his career (ask Tiki Barber) while Ben’s teammates believed he was good enough to help them to the promised land.

Ultimately both have great physical talent but Ben edges out Eli who has developed into a damn good quaterback but not a guy who makes his team believe that he will carry the day when they can’t.

Fughedaboudit!!!!!! I’ll take Ben….and the Cadillac.

by Steev1705 on Jul 17, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions

hehe, nice steeve

btw, glad to see you’re still lurking. good stuff, sir.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Excelente

Mosley can suck it. One thing I kinda dont like about those division specific blogs is that they all blindly try to defend anybody in their division, while simultaneously not trying to insult same-division teams..

Like Walker for the AFC north will back up Ben any time somebody shoots crossfire from another division, but if somebody tries to say “Is carson palmer better than Ben” He plays it more neutral.

But yeah its clear Mosley didnt do near the work that our fine man here did. +1

by Mechem on Jul 17, 2009 1:27 AM EDT reply actions

oh and

Holy christ wagons 72 more sacks… Sweet jesus. Gotta love that his running yards equal out his sack yardage though.

by Mechem on Jul 17, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Yowza

Awesome post Wolfpack….im not a big fan of Matt Mosley at ESPN, I find him biased and unorganised when it comes to making fair comparison

Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever

by Michael Hewitt on Jul 17, 2009 3:02 AM EDT reply actions

too soon to tell

Enjoyed reading this, but this is starting to get talked to death like Farve’s return. It must be a really quiet off season.

Both QB’s are talented and perfect matches for their respective teams. The only reason this debate can get heated at times is because the differences between these two QB’s are negligible. After a couple of more years, things will get clearer. Ben has strengths Manning does not, and Manning has strengths Ben does not. Who cares? The Steelers and Giants are two great organizations.

If anything, I want to watch more of these two franchises go at it. Last year’s game between the Giants and Steelers was some great football for football fans—fantasy stat boys, stay away.

Mosley’s blog is also good at being fair overall. His arguments are for the most part well-defended and interesting.

by budwisher on Jul 17, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

rec'ed from me

good point. i too enjoyed the post but think the subject generally isn’t all that interesting…just yet.

what is, interesting though, like you said, is the fact that these two teams are both similarly well run, great fans, lots of success, and last year’s game was an outstanding matchup.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

GREAT JOB!!!

Being a New Yorker, G-Men are my second favorite team I read this with great interest!!

My argument still remains as Ben is a top 5 QB, Brady, Peyton, BEN, Brees, McNabb…

Eli is in that 6-10 group depending on where you place Rivers, though with the ring, Eli should be #6…

Eli, Rivers, Cutler, Ryan, Favre……. Warner, Rodgers

Yup Yup – STAIRWAY TO SEVEN!!!

Great analysis!! Great Job!!!

Stairway to Seven!!!!

by Steeler DEW on Jul 17, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions

True indeed

Its a shame that these two teams will only play, at minimum, once every four years. If it weren’t for Silverback’s long snapping deficiencies, BB would 2-0 v. Eli. The NFL Network recently replayed the BB v. Eli game from their rookie season ‘04. I DVR’d the game and watched it a couple of times. If anyone recalls, up to that point in the season, Eli was struggling but managed to have a bit of a coming out party against the Steelers. The G-men were ahead in the game with about 8 minutes to go in the 4Q until BB did something he hardly ever does, led a come from behind 4th quarter scoring drive to take the lead. The D did the rest and Pittsburgh went on to win. Ben tossed 2 INTs but had his first 300+ yard outing of his career.

A couple of other things I took away from (re)watching that game:

- I miss the Bus (100+ yds that day)
- Alan Faneca was a beast
- Healthy Marvel made the left side a fortress
- Willie Parker playing special teams
- Our special teams was a joke and nearly lost that game
- Randle El starting for injured Plax had 100+ yds
- Hines had 100+ yds
- Good thing we drafted a TE after that season

There is no spoon

by chewiesteeler on Jul 17, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Great Post!!! but I do disagree with one thing:

Certainly, his performance in SB XLIII stacks up with Eli’s performance in SB XLII.

Ben’s performance in SB XLIII was spectacular, while Eli’s performance in SB XLII (to me) was just a little better than average and Ben deserved the MVP far more than Eli did.

Who's laughing now, O Line??? Ben Roethlisberger (from the Podium) to his O-Line and the world in Superbowl XLIII

by SteeladyinVA on Jul 17, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions

True

I meant that to say that if Mosley wanted to argue that Ben’s performance in SB XL were so poor, then surely Ben’s performance in SB XLIII was just as good as Eli’s the year before. To be fair to Eli, the Pats* had the number 4 defense in 2007, while the Cards were ranked 19 in total defense. So, Ben should have had a better performance.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 17, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

oh yay!!!

steelladyinVA is still around! woot.

i still owe you a gift of some sort. how about a copy of the book? ill email u this weekend. happy friday.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Eli deserves some props for his clutch super bowl win

But overall his numbers are really pedestrian.

I’m not talking about total yards or completion percentage, I’m talking about YPA and quarterback rating. Those two numbers actually correlate very well with winning quarterbacks.

Big Ben is way ahead in both categories. Eli is actually barely above average for the league. He’s getting better, but I think the hype and that one ridiculously clutch/lucky pass has suddenly bumped everyone’s opinion of him way ahead of his actual production.

Not hating on him – he’s definitely in the upper half, probably upper third of quarterbacks playing now – he doesn’t lose a ton of games for his team. But he’s well behind Roethlisberger.

by yrro on Jul 17, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions

Passer Ratings...

Most people agree, Vince Young is a below average QB. His career passer raating is 68.8. Yuck. Michel Vick was a bad passer, his career rating is 75.7. Eli’s is 71.6. Which actually puts him in the worst 5 QB’s with more than 4 years experience, in NFL history.

At least the other two could run. But hey, Eli through a miracle pass that was acompanied by an impossible catch. He clearly is a better QB.

It’s almost as if the first 3 years of Eli’s career, in which Giants fans were not even close to happy with him, did not even exsist. He had a great month and a half. Great QB? C’mon?! He’s on his way up ability wise, but is not yet even an elite QB in this league.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 17, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions

Correction...

Eli threw a miracle pass.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 17, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually

His QB rating is 76.1 instead of 71.6. Just a minor correction.

by King Coebra on Jul 17, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup...

Type-O, thanks for the fix. Right there in bold, too. Should of seen it.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 17, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Also...

Not worst in history, worst currently in the league. Screwed up all my stuff today.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 17, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Eli is a pussy

If he were the QB for the Steelers last year, you guys would not have made it to the Superbowl. Could you imagine the abuse he would have taken with that O-Line of yours?

Ben is one tough SOB.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions

And just think

Allegedly (sometimes he does whine) his shoulder was hosed up the entire year.

There is no spoon

by chewiesteeler on Jul 17, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

I’ll agree with that. If you turn the argument around, I can’t see a particular reason why Ben couldn’t have done what Eli did in 2007, but there’s no way to know. I do know that if Ben had a good defense, a great line, and a running game averaging 5 YPC, he wouldn’t have crapped himself in the playoffs the way Eli did last year.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Jul 17, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

malor

careful, man. couple ladies jumped in on the thread before your comment. thanks bro.

btw, i agree :)

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

My fault, Mike

Could not think of another word to describe Eli at the moment.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

hehe, all good. thanks. happy friday

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions

good post

it probably would’ve been good to also include the avg. yds/gm for the rushing ranking & the avg. yds/game & pts/game for the team defensive rankings.

obv manning doesnt compare to ben

by t1mmy10 on Jul 17, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions

Bookmarked

Keep up the good work, W-pack. You’re on my list for lunch-hour reading.

by Varmint on Jul 17, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions

Thanks all!

Thanks everyone for your feedback and comments. At present, I am planning to at least one of these posts per week. I think that I will shoot for Mondays going forward to have the new analysis posted. But, I might surprise and get something in the middle of the week, too. We’ll see how it goes.

Blitzburgh has been very helpful in getting me started, and he has graciously offered to link any new posts that I do in the daily Six Pack. So, you’ll know when I have a new analysis going up. Thanks for all of your help, Blitz!

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 17, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

no problem wolfie.

keep it up. ping me anytime. glad you got some solid feedback.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 17, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Good Post

As a giants fan my sundays would be easier if we had drafted big ben, but either way what a qb class in 2004 eli, rivers, ben, and romo as an undrafted free agent.

by Mother Tucker on Jul 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions

There is a big difference between the NFC east and the AFC north you really cant compare the two. The only owner that knows how to run a organization is pittsburgh. When was the last time 2 NFC east teams had losing seasons The browns , and bengals are two of the worst franchises in sports and big ben pads his stats against these teams eevry year also Baltimore just turned it around after years of 5-7 or 6-10 no more than one team finished with a losing record in the EAST. When was the last time cincinnati wasx good the 80s ? browns 80s? ravens good defense but until last year no QB. Theres not much of a difference between the two qb’s but to not admit that the NFC east is light years ahead of the AFC north makes me question peoples thinking, just go look at the records every year the north has a team finish 4-12 heck most years you have 2 , being a giant fan i know what it was like being able to pad stats against very bad teams we did have arizona in the east for years

by tigafur on Jul 19, 2009 8:25 AM EDT reply actions

When was the last time 2 NFC east teams had losing seasons

2004; NYG, Dal, and Wash all finished 6-10.

also Baltimore just turned it around after years of 5-7 or 6-10

Ever since Ben has been in the league, Baltimore has had a winning record every other year.

My "game-manager" QB just won the Super Bowl, while your stat-whore of a quarterback sat on his couch and watched!

by Ladi Izz on Jul 19, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

More Stats

Since Ben has been in the league:

AFC North

PIT 56-24 regular season record, 4 playoff appearances, 8-2 PO record
BAL 44-36 2 2-2
CIN 34-45-1 1 0-1
CLE 32-48 0 0-0

AFC North 166-153-1 in the regular season with 7 PO appearances and a 10-5 PO record

NYG 47-33 4 4 and 3
PHI 46-33-1 3 5 and 3
DAL 46-34 2 0 and 2
WAS 38-42 2 1 and 2

NFC East 177-142-1 record with 11 PO appearances and a 10-10 playoff record.

There’s no question the NFC East is a better division from top to bottom, but the numbers don’t suggest the overwhelming superiority that most would believe it to be.

The NFC East has 11 more total victories over the past five seasons. That means each team in the NFC East wins just over 1/2 game per team per year.

The NFC East has also had 11 total playoff appearances to the AFC North’s 7. However they are only 10-10 during the postseason as opposed to the AFC North’s 10-5 record. Dallas and Washington, while clearly having superior regular season numbers have won exactly one more post season game than Cincinnati and Cleveland.

I also looked up strength of schedules for PIT vs the NYG over the past five years and my findings were quite surprising:

YEAR PIT NYG
2008 0.598 0.520
2007 0.512 0.496
2006 0.531 0.543
2005 0.509 0.488
2004 0.468 0.468
AVG 0.524 0.503

Based on these numbers the average Steelers S.O.S during the past 5 years was .524 and the Giants was only .503. Based on the data, the Giants have played a more difficult schedule only once in the past 5 years. Ben and the Steelers have apparently had a considerably more difficult road to the POs each year than the Giants over the past five years.

I guess what this points out is that although PIT does get to regularly play against “lesser” opponents 4 times each year when playing against CLE and CIN, the remaining schedule played against the generally much stronger rest of the AFC more than balances out the “weakness” of those two teams.

People seem to forget that only 6 games each season are played within the division and there are 10 others played outside the division.

Finally, there is no question that the NFC East is a much stronger and consistent division from top to bottom. However, over the course of the past five seasons, there is also no question that the AFC Conference is a stronger and more competitive conference from top to bottom. The two essentially cancel each other out and the Strength of Schedule statistics directly refute the claim that the NYG have played a much more difficult schedule than PIT has since both Eli and Ben entered the league. It’s a fantasy Giants fans. Nice try though.

by King Coebra on Jul 19, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Great stuff!

I was just going to point out that the Ravens were 13-3 a couple years ago, but I think you just destroyed tigafur’s argument. True the NFC East has been better, but, as you say, not by as big a difference as people seem to think.

by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jul 19, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Corrections

The Strength of Schedule information I gathered was based on the records of all opponents from the season prior to the one played. For example the .598 strength of schedule I listed for the 2008 season was based on our opponents records from the 2007 season. That is a best guess for the upcoming season, but once the season is played that information obviously changes. SO what I did was I went through each completed season and put down the actual records from each team for that year and recalculated the strength of schedule. I figure that is a better true measure. All percentages are based on regular season opponents only. I did not add in the postseason opponents, or adjust the regular season records to account for postseason wins and losses.

PITs divisional opponents combined record was 220-258-2 = .460
PITs remaining AFC opponents were 253-227 = .527
Combining those two records to get a total conference record was 473-485-2 = .494

NYGs divisional opponents combined record was 260-218-2 = .544
NYGs remaining NFC opponents were 225-255 = .469
Combining those two records for total conference record was 485-473-2 = .506

So the data pretty much verifies what I suggested. The NFC East records for NYGs opponents is far superior to the AFC North records of PITs opponents by 40 games over the course of 5 seasons. The records of PITs remaining AFC opponents is far superior to the records of NYGs remaining NFC opponents by 28 games over 5 seasons. Therefore the total difference is only 12 games or 2.2 games per season – which is nominal.

The Giants S.O.S gets even better though since in the remaining 4 games each season they have faced AFC opponents while PIT has beaten up on the NFC. NYGs AFC opponents are 165-154-1 while PITs NFC opponents are 153-166-1. The difference again favors the Giants to the tune of 12 games.

Altogether the Giants opponents are 650-627-3 = .509 S.O.S while the Steelers opponents are 626-651-3 = .490 S.O.S.

I just wanted to point out that the Giants have played a slightly more difficult schedule over the course of the past five years since I mistakenly pointed out that the Steelers S.O.S was better.

However there is another factor to consider. Over the past five years the AFCs record is 664-615-1 = .519, whereas the NFCs record is 615-664-1 = .481. The AFC has won more games than the NFC every season since Ben and Eli joined the league except in 2007 when the records were dead even.

So my question is this. Is it not possible, and in fact even probable that if PIT, CIN, CLE and BAL were able to play in the NFC that their records would be considerably better than they are now since they have to play in the AFC? We know for a fact that PIT is 18-4 vs. the NFC during that timeframe which is “only” an 82% winning percentage and that they are 6-2 vs. the NFC East. Hmmm. I wonder?

by King Coebra on Jul 19, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

legit point

NFC East has been pretty stout since Eli came in to the league whereas the AFC North has been pretty mediocre.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Jul 19, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions

Another part of the ELI AND BIG BEN COMPARISON

Something that should be considered is whether ELI or BIG Ben is a better play caller and therefore helps the o-line get in a better position to suceed. I believe ELI is very good at calling out protection schemes and plays, which helps his o-line look better. Big Ben I feel is not as good at this, therefore the argument he plays with an inferior line is somewhat self fufiilling.

by nfl_gmen on Jul 19, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

That's an interesting theory

And it is the first time I have seen somebody mention it. While it is possible there may be some truth to this supposition, I think it would be very difficult to verify one way or another unless you have insider knowledge as to the number of times each QB calls out adjustments and the outcomes, etc. etc. I know I personally don’t have access to every game tape of each team during the course of their careers and even if I did, going through each of them and trying to figure this out would be far too daunting of a task.

What we do know with certainty though is that the OL of the Steelers is made up exclusively of middle and low round draft picks and undrafted free agents (1 3rd, 1 4th, 2 6th and 1 UFA started last season and there isn’t a 1st or 2nd rnd OL anywhere on the roster) Here is a good link to an excellent article addressing the issue of the Steelers offensive line in comparison to some of the other elite teams in the league. http://pit.scout.com/2/878178.html

by King Coebra on Jul 19, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Overwhelming superiority

VS. Eagles 13-25 131yards 0td 1 int 15-6 loss
vs giants 13-29 189 yards 1 td 4 int 21-14 loss
vs redskins 5-17 50 yards 0 td 1 int leftwich came back to win
vs cowboys 17-33 204 yards 1 td 5 sacks
in 4 games Brittle ben was sacked 21 times in 4 games or about half the amount FOR HIS ENTIRE SEASON . Nothing against the other divisions but the nfc east is the beast of football No team had a losing season for 2 years in 3 years 1 team 10 playoff spots in 4 seasons and im not saying its all the giants the eagles have been to what 5 championship games

by tigafur on Jul 26, 2009 8:19 AM EDT reply actions