54th Player
by t1mmy10 on Jul 28, 2009 2:45 AM EDT
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PrintWith training camp set to begin in a couple of days, I figured I’d give predicting the 53 man roster a try even though any required cuts are a month away. And I’m curious what you think about my predictions.
One thing is for certain, it will be difficult to make the Steelers roster out of training camp. Due to FA, retirement, or making cuts, we lost only 8 players from last year‘s team and most of those were backups: Nate Washington (#3 WR), Gary Russell (short yardage RB & KR), Byron Leftwich (#2 QB), Bryant McFadden (starting #2 CB), Anthony Smith (backup safety), Fernando Bryant (backup CB, dressed in 2 games), Larry Foote (starting ILB), and Orpheus Roye (backup DE, dressed in 6 games). I’m not counting players that were only temporary replacements for injured players still on our team aka Mitch Berger & Jared Retkofsky or players that didn‘t play since the beginning of last season due to injuries aka Marvel Smith & Kendall Simmons. With a lot of returning players, competition will be tough.
Listed below is the steelers current 80 man roster & the minimum number of players for each position that I think the Steelers would like to have (and don‘t forget some players may fulfill 2 different roles). I listed those I think are an easy lock for making the team (italics), those I think will make the team, and those I don’t think will make the team. For players that I feel even have a realistic chance (even if it’s a small chance) of being cut, I listed what I believe they’d have to do to make the team (italics again) and possibly a little background info.
QB: (3) Ben Roethlisberger Cut: Mike Reilly-undrafted rookie. needs Batch shows his age
Charlie Batch
Dennis Dixon
RB: (4) Willie Parker
Rashard Mendenhall
Mewelde Moore
Frank Summers(RB/FB)-2009 5th rd draft pick. equivilant short yardage back to Mendenhall or FB
Stefan Logan(RB/KR)-2008 CFL starter. sproles-esque RB or KR
Cut: Justin Vincent-practice squad member past 2 years
Isaac Redman-undrafted rookie
To make team: bring something special to a deep backfield
FB: (1) Sean McHugh(FB/TE)-the best FB or top 3 TE
Cut: Carey Davis. good short yardage back, best FB, or special teams contributor
WR: (5) Hines Ward
Santonio Holmes
Limas Sweed
Mike Wallace(WR/KR)
Shaun McDonald-played for Lions in 2008. top 5 WR
Cut: Dallas Baker-dressed in 8 games & had only 1 reception. ended season on practice squad
Martin Nance-2008 practice squad member
Brandon Williams(WR/KR)-cut from Rams 2008 preseason, dressed for 10 games in 2007
Steven Black-undrafted rookie
Tyler Grisham-undrafted rookie
To make team: top 5 WR
TE: (3) Heath Miller Cut: David Johnson(TE/FB)-2009 7th rd draft pick. top 3 TE or best FB
Matt Speath-top 3 TE Dezmond Sherrod-2008 practice squad member. top 3 TE
C: (2) Justin Hartwig Cut: Doug Legursky-2008 practice squad member. top 2 C/par with Stapleton
A.Q. Shipley-2009 7th rd draft pick. comparable to Stapleton
G: (4) Chris Kemoeatu Cut: Jeremy Parquet(G/T)-on roster for 14 games in 2008, dressing for 4. top 4 G
Darnell Stapleton(G/C)
Kraig Urbik
T: (4) Max Starks
Willie Colon
Trai Essex(T/G)-2008 active roster member, dressing for 7 games. top 4 Tackle
Tony Hills-2008 active roster member, dressing for no games. top 4 Tackle
Cut: Jason Capizzi-2008 Rams practice squad member, signed to steelers roster for last 4 games.
Ramon Foster-undrafted rookie
To make team: top 4 tackle
K: (1) Jeff Reed Cut: Piotr Czech(K/P)-2008 preseason member of Ravens. injury
P: (1) Daniel Sepulveda
LS:(1) Greg Warren
NT:(2) Casey Hampton
Chris Hoke
Cut: Scott Paxson-2008 practice squad member, promoted to roster for 8 games, dressing for 1 game
To make team: top 2 NT or Hoke shows his age
DE:(4) Aaron Smith Cut: Nick Eason
Brett Keisel Jordan Reffett-2008 practice squad member
Evander Hood Ra'Shon Harris(DE/NT)-2009 6th rd draft pick
Travis Kirschke-top 4 DE Steve McLendon-undrafted rookie
To make team: better backup than Kirschke or Kirschke starts to show his age
ILB:(4) James Farrior
Lawrence Timmons
Keyaron Fox-quality backup LB or special teams contributor
Cut: Andy Schantz-undrafted rookie
Tom Korte-undrafted rookie
To make team: quality backup LB or special teams contributor
OLB:(4) James Harrison
LaMarr Woodley
Bruce Davis-2008 active roster member, dressing in 5 games. quality backup LB or special teams contributor
Patrick Bailey-quality backup LB or special teams contributor
Andre Frazier-quality backup LB or special teams contributor
Donovan Woods-2008 practice squad member. Promoted to active roster for 7 games, dressing for 5 of those. quality backup LB or special teams contributor
Cut: Arnold Harrison-2 torn ACL’s in 2 calendar years, one was during preseason last year & was cut after preseason. quality backup LB or special teams contributor
CB:(5) Ike Taylor
William Gay
Deshea Townsend-top 5 CB or better safety than Carter
Keiwan Ratliff-2008 Colts CB. top 5 CB or top 3 safety
Anthony Madison-top 5 CB or special teams contributor
Keenan Lewis-2009 3rd draft pick. top 5 CB or special teams contributor
Cut: Roy Lewis-2008 practice squad member. promoted to active roster for 2 games, dressing for 1 game.
S:(4) Troy Polamalu Cut: Derrick Richardson-undrafted rookie. top 4 safety or special teams contributor
Ryan Clark
Tyrone Carter-better safety than Townsend/Ratliff
Ryan Mundy-2008 practice squad member. legit backup safety or special teams contributor
KR/PR:(2) Joe Burnett(CB/KR)-2009 5th rd draft pick. top 5 CB or return man
If you add up the number of players that I have making the team, its 54. I really struggled when trying to decide who would be last person cut. There is a good chance this could come down between a backup center & one of the d-backs. I’m sure there are a lot of fans out there rooting for Shipley (I’m one of them), but the stats speak against him. In the past few years, only 1 or 2 players that were drafted in the 6th rd or later or signed as undrafted rookies made the 53 man roster out of training camp each season. It’s more common for them make their way onto the active roster during the regular season. Obviously, Legursky’s or Shipley’s best bet to make the team would show themselves as a better backup center than Stapleton. If either is able to achieve that, they’ll certainly have a roster spot come September. But what if Legursky or Shipley can’t? Ideally, it’d be better to carry a backup center beyond Stapleton because its risky when your only backup for a key position is another starter at another key position…and they both play at the same time.
On the other hand, we really need a good backup safety. Ryan Clark has never been able to play an entire season without getting injured (why I think the steelers shouldn’t invest top dollar in him if they extend his contract) and Polamalu has only been injury free 3 of his 5 seasons as a starter. In the past few years, anytime one of the safeties was out they’d put Tyrone Carter in and he‘s been a decent backup…but he hasn’t been great and since he‘ll be 33 this season I don’t expect him to get any better. There is up and coming Mundy and reports say he has potential. Realistically, however, he doesn’t have a good chance of be any higher than a #4 safety at the end of training camp since he was only good enough to play on the practice squad last year. So for Carter to be cut, I think either Townsend or Ratliff will have to prove themselves better than Carter at safety.
I figure there are also 2 other situations that would free up a spot for both Carter and a backup center. 1) one of players who may only make the team as a punt/kick returner isn’t a good enough punt/kick returner (ex. Burnett or Logan). This would free up a spot because then someone wouldn’t be taking their spot on the roster at their position (ex. If our FB from last year was cut, we’d take another FB to fill the spot). 2) Townsend or Ratliff isn’t good enough to replace Carter and at the same time one of the CB’s isn’t good enough to make the team as either a CB or special teams player (such as Ratliff, Townsend, or Madison). We wouldn’t need to take another CB to fill the spot because we would still have 5 CB’s on the roster.
So I’d like your opinion on who going to be the “54th player.” I’m also interested in your take on my predictions for the rest of the roster. Remember though, say for instance that you disagree with my prediction that Hills will make the roster instead of Capizzi, that wouldn’t be the 54th player because Capizzi would replace Hills on the roster and another player would still have to be cut. My final take? Carter will be cut. I think Townsend will outperform him and allow Ratliff to be the #3 CB, while Burnett and Logan both bring enough to the team to earn themselves roster spots.
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Nice looking
I chose Stefan Logan to be cut…not sure if we will require more than 4 RBs, and as we have Burnett, Wallace and last resort Holmes to return kicks/punts, i think we will be fine. Dont forget we returned kicks with Davis and Russell last season….it takes a backseat to the more crucial parts of the roster
Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever
Logan won't be cut
I really don’t think that Logan will be cut. He is a running back who can return kicks/punts and didn’t they work him out as a wide receiver in the OTAs? He has the “Position Flexibility” that Tomlin loves.
So he is best at a position we are very deep at, and tried out for a position there is a lot of competition for. The only way he can make the roster is if he can return kicks/punts well, and there’s a fair amount of competition there too.
Logan is on the outside looking in, sorry bud.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Agreed
Not cut altogether, but practice squad. He wont make the 53 man squad in my mind unless he performs unbelievably in TC and preseason
Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever
by Michael Hewitt on Jul 28, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, this is all based on the false premise....
…that no one will get injured in pre-season.
Good Stuff, Rec’d…..not sure I agree with everything, but you at least seem to have a reason for everything.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jul 28, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions
Nice Analysis
Hope they don’t cut Ra’Shon Harris, he wouldn’t make it thru to our practice squad. Would love to see Kraig Urbik show enough to start, then Darnell S. could back-up the 3 interior line positions and A.Q. Shipley would make it to the practice squad.
" It's caught out of the air "
Can I as a question?
Maybe I’m naive to the little things, but I feel like I have a decent feel for the way the league works.
Why is it assumed that some of these rookies wouldn’t make it through to the practice squad? Does anyone have any supporting info showing that late round picks tend to get scooped up by other teams? I’m not saying the evidence isn’t there, I just haven’t seen it. I’m looking back at our draft history and I’m trying to think of any players we drafted, put on the practice squad, and then lost to another team, just like that. I can’t find one that I know about. Please correct me, because I must be missing something. Here’s a link to our draft history.
I’m trying to figure out if I just don’t know we lost some of these guys or if we’re overvaluing what are in reality late round picks with just as good of a chance as any other late round pick of being a real player.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions
no, thats a good question. i went back as far as i could before writing this article to look at the chance late rd picks had in making the team. in the past 9 years, the earliest draft pick we cut was an early 4th round pick (103 overall danny farmer in 2000). thats why i didnt list keenan lewis as a shoe in because he was taken 96 overall.
and i’m not making any predictions about the practice squad, just the 53 man active roster. you are correct that the players drafted in the 6th/7th rd or undrafted rookies tend to end up on the practice squad. i looked back as far as i could using what resources i found. i was only able to go back a couple years and found it happens, but its uncommon for undrafted rookies or 6/7 rd picks to make the roster. only 1 or 2 players in the past 3 years. i’m guessing you hit the nail on the head why. things ppl dont bring enough to the team right now to earn a spot & the team isn’t afraid enough about losing them to another team.
the best websites i found were wikipedia, nfl.com (the team transacations page…its awesome for this but too bad it only goes back a year and a half), kffl, pittsburgh post gazette & tribune review looking for random articles for who was signed to our practice roster, and steelers.com.
this is what i was able to find from draft picks cut during final cuts after preseason (i only looked at the past 5 years):
2008 6th rd Humpal: (i guess he had an injury) no other team signed him. he was eventually signed to the IR and was cut come february. remains cut.
2008 6th rd Mundy: (may have also had an injury). no other team signed him and steelers resigned in november.
2007 4th rd McBean: immediately signed to practice squad.
2007 5th rd Stephenson: was signed by packers AFTER steelers signed their players to practice squad. so either steelers didnt want him or he didnt want to come back to the steelers
2007 7th rd Baker: immediately signed to practice squad
2006 4th Orien Harris: immediately signed to practice squad
2006 5th rd Omar Jacobs: immediately signed to PS
2006 5th rd charles davis: signed by giants AFTER steelers signed their 8 to the practice squad. so so either he didnt want to come back to the steelers or we didnt want him.
2006 7th rd cedric humes: immediately signed to PS
2005-4th rd Fred Gibson: signed by dolphins to their practice squad…i THINK before the steelers were able to sign him to theirs
2005 7th rd Shaun Nau: signed immediately to PS
2004-Bo Lacy (6th rd), Drew Caylor (6th rd), Eric Taylor (7th rd) all were immediately signed to the practice squad
2004 Nathaniel Adibi (5th rd) was signed by the titans before the steelers could sign him to the practice squad. titans cut him a lil later, & steelers resigned him to practice squad then cut him again shortly after
so in the course of 5 years, the steelers have only lost 2 draft picks to other teams (not counting any players that may have not wanted to come back to the steelers). this also doesn’t count any players being stolen from our practice squad during the regular season.
oh...
only 1 or 2 players in the past 3 years
should say only 1 or 2 players EACH YEAR in the past 3 years
Thanks T1mmy10...
I’ve wondered this often. I saw a few comments that we’d lose this guy or that guy if we put them on the practice squad. I appreciate the legwork on my behalf. In my opinion, and I’ve been wrong before, the risk of losing a rook off the practice squad is not as great as we’ve made it out to be.
There were a few names of players on that list I was excited to get. Cedric Humes, Omar Jacobs, Nathanial Adibi (who’s broother Xavier is now on the Texans) to name a few. But most of that is my VaTech bias. With the exception of Jacobs, who was a damn good college QB. While I’m on a question asking spree…
Does anyone know what happened to Omar Jaobs?
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 28, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Omar Jacobs is playing
in the American Indoor Football Association, where he was MVP of the league in the regular season and then again in their version of the Super Bowl….he completed 208 of 362 passes for 3,000 yards, with 56 TD’s and 12 INT’s, according to Wikipedia. Good question NYSF4, I remember wondering what Jacobs was doing last year when Ben got hurt in Cleveland.
by SteelerStuckintheSouth on Jul 29, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I always liked him, esp when we drafted him
Why did he leave? Like what were the problems that he had that ended up with him out the league entirely? I think he was with Phillys squad at some stage if im not mistaken?
Bleeding Black and Gold.....forever
by Michael Hewitt on Jul 29, 2009 5:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Practice squad players
Sometimes, as my memory serves, they get moved up to the 53 during the season because another team is showing interest in them.
Spaeth needs to go
Still not sure why we drafted him, we already had a receiving TE…maybe Billy C. was thinking of playing some 2 on 2 with Spaeth and his daughters. No need tying up a roster spot for someone who can’t block and can only catch 3 yard touchdown passes. There are dozens of power forwards who can do that, and maybe a few can even block someone. Wasn’t Tony Hills a HS TE? Make him tackle eligible and cut Spaeth. Don’t forget Michael Bush was available with that pick(yes he was hurt and might have gone on IR in 07), we sure could’a used a power back last year to rest Willie, move the chains a few more times and keep Ben off his back. Hopefully Frank the Tank is half as much a player, that will really help.
Gotta believe if Urbik shows any promise then Stapleton can battle Hartwig, AQ and Legursky for C and b/u C/G, Hartwig is making close to 2 mil. so he needs to show he’s is clearly better (which he isn’t) or the other 3 need to show they are clearly worse?
Love the 9 LBs. Too much talent to cut anyone but A. Harrison because of his knees. Might the PS make a trade No one will give value for solid back-ups Fox and Frazier, probably not Baily either while he develops, but Woods and Davis might bring some nice value or a high pick?
Townsend is also making almost 2 mil. Too much money for a #3 CB or #3 safety, especially considering the talent that won’t dress if Townsend does. Likely to be cut and then brought back at first sign of DB injury, that way the 1.8 mill isn’t guaranteed for an old backup.
Townsend not worth 2 mil?
Really? I completely disagree. You’ve got a vet who could also fill in at free safety in a pinch.
Hell I’ll give him 2 mil for that interception returned for a TD against the cowboys.
by Chicago Steeler on Jul 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I’m unaware of this hidden talent hiding that won’t see the field because of Townsend. Who are those guys? Ratliff? We want Burnett and Lewis starting? Right…
Back when Blitzburgh existed (I kid!) he wrote a great piece about old man Townsend:
I don’t have every last number in front of me, but I do know that Deshea was tied for 4th in the NFL over the course of 2004-2007, and that his 2008 total only lowered his 5 year average. So the bottom line is he’s quietly been one of the more under appreciated and effective CBs in the league for the better part of this decade. This is all the more remarkable when you consider he’s done his best work since turning 29 years of age, which by just about everybody’s rationale is past his prime physical years in his mid to late 20s.
-http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/3/17/800961/needing-one-more-big-year
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Tomlin drafted Spaeth, not Cowher
and while it is hard to argue with opinions (e.g. “…can’t block and can only catch 3 yard touchdown passes. There are dozens of power forwards who can do that, and maybe a few can even block someone”) what I can say is that there is little to no chance that Spaeth is going to be cut. Two reasons 1) B.A. runs a lot of two (and sometimes three) TE sets 2) Miller’s contract has yet to be re-uped. Those are just the facts. Say what you want about coaching philosophies and contract renewals; because of the above – barring catastrophic injury, or an absolute and totally unexpected treasure in David Johnson – there is no way we will cut Matt Spaeth.
by Rougue_Behaviorist on Jul 28, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
from the practice squad point of view
since there’s been some reference to the PS & since not everyone is eligible to make the practice squad which may sometimes play a role in ppl’s thinking if a player should be cut or not. these are the players that are eligible.
QB- Mike Reilly
RB-Summers, Vincent, Redman, Logan
WR-Wallace, Black, Grisham (baker & williams were on an active roster too many games, nance already spent the max 3 years on PS)
TE-Johnson, Sherrod
C-Shipley, Legursky
G-Kraig Urbik
T-Foster, Capizzi
K-Piotr Czech
NT- (Paxson used up all his years of eligibility)
DE-Hood, Harris, McLendon, Reffert
ILB-Schantz, Korte
OLB-I think Woods is still eligible (Bailey and Davis all dressed for too many games last year)
CB-Keenan Lewis, Burnett, Roy Lewis
S-Ryan Mundy
Practice Squad
Mike Reilly, Stephan Logan, Ramon Foster, Jason Capizzi, RaShon Harris, Roy Lewis, Tom Korte, Doug Legursky, David Johnson and/or Desmond Sherrod
Seems pretty reasonable. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Shipley there either, but who knows what’s going to happen with the line this pre-season.
2 days.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Stephan Logan
I’d bet he doesn’t stick to the practice squad but either resigns up in canada or potentially in the UFL.
by Chicago Steeler on Jul 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe…but it isn’t like we pay our PS players chicken little.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
good point
I know he would be making more on the P.S. than playing in the UFL…i think I heard their check for the season will be around $60,000…but I wonder what they make up north to play CFL ball…
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Jul 29, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t know exactly, but I looked it up. From the infallible wikipedia:
Practice squad players practice alongside regular roster players during the week, but they are not allowed to play in actual games. They can be paid considerably less than active squad players: The minimum salary from 2008 to 2010 is $5,200 per week (2008-2010)1 for 17 weeks, or $88,400 per season, in comparison to the NFL minimum rookie salary of $285,000. (Some practice squad players are paid considerably more, however. In 2006, the New England Patriots paid third-year player Billy Yates the full $425,000 he would have earned on the active roster.)2
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Also, I can’t find hard figures, but it looks like the B.C. Lions offered Logan 30K more to play for them than the steelers contract offered. I forget what we were paying Logan assuming he doesn’t get cut, but even if it was at rookie minimum that would mean Logan would be getting paid substantially more in the CFL than on our PS.
We’ll see how it works out. It wouldn’t surprise me if he takes a shot at the practice squad for a year. If you are one injury away from filling in on a NFL squad, what better position than RB? It’s not like our RBs made it through last season unscathed.
The only managing Ben does is that he manages to win games. - chewiesteeler
Except the man, the myth, the legend...
Carey Davis. What a testament to his durability. An unbelievable kick returner and tough as nails. And is there anyone better at taking a dump off pass and making something happen? I think not.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ummm. are we seriously referring to carey davis as an “unbelievable kick returner”. i SWEAR i’m not checking any stats but i’m guessin he never had a return past the 40 yard line
i hope to god your comment is laden with some sarcasm i’m missing
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