The case for Charlie Batch

by PA ARMY OFFICER on Aug 25, 2009 2:12 PM EDT Comment 17 comments

It has been argued that Charlie Batch is past his prime, that he should be put out to pasture and be given a coaching role. It has been argued that Dixon should be our number 2 back. It has been argued that we should've snatched Mike Vick. It has been argued that we should have spent the money to keep Leftwich as our number 2.

#1. Batch is past his prime.

I won't argue that his best days are likely behind him, but look at what Kurt Warner is doing at a full 4 years older. Charlie has a much higher pedigree than Kurt, and was never lucky enough to play in systems such as Kurt or with receivers of real caliber. Charlie is applauded by the training staff for the amount of work that he puts in, not only in the film room, but in the weight room as well.

#2. Make Charlie a coach, since he's a hometown boy already.

Charlie has a coaching role already, in his role his value is truly realized.

The main reason that Batch is so incredibly valuable is that his experience has allowed him to run the best damned scout team in the NFL hands down! He is smart enough that he can lead, teach, and most importantly mimic what our opposition is going to do the following week.

Batch has been constantly applauded by Lebeau in that he helps prepare his defense better than any QB who has ever run a scout team against him. Batch is a marvel at taking the film study of the unit they will play against and mimicking similar scenarios so that our defense can practice against it.

For that reason alone Batch keeps the #1 defense the #1 defense and more than earns his roster spot. Dixon is learning how to be the quarterback he’s going to be. Batch has mastered being the quarterback that we are going to be playing against, for the week prior to the game anyway.

#3. Dennis Dixon should be our number 2.

Dennis Dixon has yet to play any real time at QB in a real NFL game versus a real NFL Defense. He may be able to burn the other team's 3rd and 4th stringers, but I'd hate to see what the Raven's D would do to him, especially if we have any injuries to our offensive line.

I'm not sure that I'd like to see Dixon and half the playbook. I'd rather see Charlie, the full playbook, and Santonio, Hines, Heath, Limas, and Mewelde playing real football.

#4. Shoulda grabbed Mike Vick.

That is not, and has not ever been the Steeler's way. We don't go after someone else's headache. I don't want to hear this crap about Wildcat. Robert Kraft said it best when asked about Vick. "Why would I do anything that might take the best quarterback in the game out for even one play." I'm not saying Ben is the Best QB in the league, but he's up there and I like Kraft's logic in this example.

Besides why would we try to match the money the Iggles offered. That's crazy-talk.

#5. Shoulda payed for Lefty

Leftwich wanted the chance to start. He took a bargain at 2Million for the chance to start down in Tampa, and this morning on Sirius NFL I heard that he is currently the frontrunner to start in Tampa. Leftwich said what he needed to if no offers came along.

#6. Intangibles

Charlie is a hometown boy who could have made a starting bid at a lot of places, San Fran anyone? He takes the Veteran Minimum to play here, he is worth more than that, and is a bargain. He has proven himself over the past 4 years. He may be injury prone, but he's a backup QB. He is the players Union representative for the Steelers, and is a leader in the locker room.

All of that said, when I play Madden Football I trade Charlie after year one every year. Guess what, we aren't playing a video game here. Intangibles mean something, and Charlie Batch means a lot to this team and this city.

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nice defense of Batch

the problem I see with Charlie is he hasn’t taken a real NFL snap in quite a while and the last time he did two years ago he looked pretty bad. I haven’t been particularly impressed with his work in the preseason either. I do think Dixon has alot of potential and has looked good so far. Sure he needs some work on the short stuff but I really like what I’ve seen from him on 3rd and intermediate which is where a Steelers QB really needs to shine. The other upside with Dixon is if we get him on tape in some real games and he performs well we could trade him for some high picks whereas Batch won’t fetch anything. The bottom line is still who gives us the best chance to win if Ben goes down and as of now I think its a pretty close race.

by schnifin on Aug 25, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the case for charlie batch

Big Ben is constantly getting sacked.

and dixon is a long skinny backup QB.

both have been injured in preseason already.

WE NEED BATCH.

PERIOD.

end of sentence

by Hi5Steeler on Aug 25, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I HAVE SPOKEN!!!!

by worldtrip on Aug 25, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How come you put more words after the period? That’s bad English.

by Johnny_S on Aug 25, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Aug 26, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

We should just drop Ben and Batch and make Dixon our only QB because he is that good.

by Johnny_S on Aug 25, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you watch Troy Smith against the Jets last night?

That’s why we have Charlie Batch. Even if he doesn’t toss a 50 yard bomb, you will never have to worry about him throwing two INTs on two straight attempts. Conclusion: Steelers lose Ben and tread water; Ravens lose Flacco and all is lost. Leave the old timer alone.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Aug 25, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’ll give him a week o see how he performs although my vote is already cast…he stinks. I would like to see all of the adamant Bratch lovers do a play by play analysis of his performance this week. Then you can determine a grade. I say he scores no higher than a C-. Oh, please do not use our line as an excuse. I hope Charlie proves me wrong.

by TheCommish on Aug 25, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ok, I'll play along...

#1. Batch is past his prime…
-Did you just compare a HOF candidate who’s throwing to 2 ProBowl WR’s to Charlie Batch? I love Charlie as much as the next guy, but come on. Kurt Warner is the exception to the rule. The rule is father time eventually wins. Its hard enough playing at a high level in your 30’s. And its even harder after missing a season of work. Also, keep in mind that Charlie’s “prime” was when he was starting for the Lions many moons ago.

#2. Make Charlie a coach…
-Now you made a pretty strong argument there as far as Charlie making the scout team a formidable opponent for the D. Obviously Dixon doesn’t have the number of trips around the block that Charlie has. But he’s gotta earn his stripes sometime, right? Not to mention, the D looked ok last year with Leftwich heading up the scout team don’t ya think?

#3. Dixon should be our #2…
-Not only should he be the #2, HE WAS DRAFTED SPECIFICALLY TO BE JUST THAT!!! We didn’t pick him on accident. And he hasn’t shown any reason why he shouldn’t be ready for that role. This is year 2 in his development, and every other pick made under Tomlin’s watch has made has been ready to roll after the 1st lap around the track.

#4. Shoulda grabbed Michael Vick…
-Now I’ve never been in favor of the whole Vick to 6burgh line of thinking so I’m not even going to try and formulate a theory where that would be a good idea. I’m not that smart/dumb.

#5. Shoulda paid for Lefty…
-I think we all knew that Leftwich was just auditioning for a starting job when he signed with us last year. Now if no other team in the NFL would’ve offered him an opportunity to start, I’d be all for bringing him back into the fold for another year. But we all knew that wasn’t going to happen. He’s just flat out too good to hold a clipboard for 2 seasons in a row.

#6. Intangibles…
-He definately means a lot to the organization as a whole, not just the team that runs on the field on Sundays. And his veteran stature and leadership qualities are definately appreciated by yours truly. However, like I stated in the 1st bullet, father time is undefeated in the anals of NFL history. I’d love to have Charlie be a part of the Steelers in some capacity for the next 20 years. I just don’t know if I want him to take the snaps if/when Ben gets dinged up anymore.

by Mr 412 on Aug 25, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree 100%

Let me add my two cents.

Too old? Sometimes age is just a number. He was injured once, last preseason so now he’s old and injury prone. Really? You point out Kurt Warner. I would add that the football world is licking the behind of a guy (Farve) who is considerably older than Batch and hasn’t done a damn thing for the teams he’s played for over the past several years but give with one hand and take away (interceptions) with the other. Charlie’s biggest problem is that he doesn’t get enough game reps and is constantly battling rust. On the other hand he has suffered little in the way of wear and tear during his years with the Steelers and doesn’t have the mileage that some think his age implies.

If you listened to the play by play by Mike Patrick and Joe Theismann this past weekend on NFL Network you might have heard them compliment Batch on his a) mobility in avoiding rushers, b)strength in resisting being easily taken down by his pursuers and c) the quality of his arm. Those with short memories may not recall that Charlie is another one of those underrated MAC quarterbacks just like Ben, Leftwich and Chad Pennington who was thrown into the fire in Detroit probably before he was fully ready. He started for a few years with the Lions and did as well as one can under the circumstances (ask Barry Sanders). Ron Cook in the Post Gazette states what is obvious to many; we have absolutely the best quarterback situation in the league. Batch could credibly compete for a starting job with probably a quarter of the teams in the league and would be an upgrade at #2 with many of the rest. Nonetheless he is completely satisfied with his role, and therefore no risk whatsoever of being a source of divisiveness in the lockerroom.

He’s the player rep which says to me he is highly respected among his peers in the locker room. A native son who is serious about community service, extremely well liked within the community and an unquestioned community relations access to an organization where such things matter.

Dixon will be the #2 when he is ready and, alas, if he does not prove to be even more ‘fragile’ than Batch.

I understand the impatience and ‘what have you done for me lately mentality of many in the Nation’, but, c’mon. Really.

by RickVa on Aug 25, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

asset not access

by RickVa on Aug 25, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Charlie's injuries

You’re right Rick, age is just a number. But in Charlie’s case it’s a deceivingly young number. Here’s an unofficial list of his known injuries:

2008: Broken collarbone in preseason, IR whole season
2005: Broken metacarpal bone in right hand in mid-season
2004: Knee surgery, IR whole season
2001: Separated shoulder, missed last five games
2000: Fractured knee in voluntary non contact drill, underwent surgery and missed camp and opener; bruised ribs late in season and had to leave three of the last five games.
1999: Fractured thumb on throwing hand late in season, finished one of the team’s last four games and missed the playoff game.
1998: Compression fracture of lower back, missed last two games

Charlie is one of the gutsiest quarterbacks in NFL history and a wily veteran who knows what he’s doing, but he’s also been one of the most beaten up. I’m not sure any team would even pick him up if he was cut. He’s in shape and I thought he moved around pretty well against Washington, but there was a lot of rust there and if he has to play his own history shows that he isn’t going to stay healthy for long. Dixon has been okay, but he hasn’t played well enough yet to inspire a lot of confidence that he could step in and do the job. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Steelers are keeping a close eye on the QB situation around the league.

by steeler.lifer on Aug 25, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the medical report Lifer

Sorta collapses part of my case and you do a good job of pointing out a vulnerability of the Steeler QB corps. Ben, Charlie and (to this point) Dennis tend toward gutsy play with a troubling disregard for personal safety. Ben seems a bit more durable. Doesn’t hold up that well against car windshields, but otherwise pretty sturdy. The problem is that all of them will place themselves in harms way in order to successfully compete and as such each is one play away from IR. Nonetheless, that very significant point aside, they are a talented, and very deep group. However, as the current debate suggests many of us became spoiled from last year’s situation which had Byron Leftwich in the mix as well. That group was arguably stronger than the current situation in Philly (McNabb, Vick, Kolb and Feeley). And it left some with the impression that playoff caliber qbs like Leftwich are growing on trees. What it exposed is the continuing perceptual differences concerning personnel, especially quarterbacks, that are based on style, physical attributes and sometimes, race. Byron could not and should not have been happy carrying a clipboard, a fact confirmed by his current status as starter with Tampa. However, the damage had been done to a degree. Fans saw a backup with abilities very close to that of Ben, closer in age and durability. Charlie suffered in the comparison and now there exists a dissatisfaction in some quarters.

The reality is that when (if) healthy, Charlie is perhaps the best #2 that you could hope for in this league. He is aging and management has been mindful of that with the addition and cultivation of Dixon (a very shrewd move btw). But the window of vulnerability is the length of Batch’s continuing durability vs Dixon’s learning curve. Once Dixon legitimately develops to #2 (though he’s showing some physical fragility as well) then the team can ride that combination for several seasons if necessary.

by RickVa on Aug 26, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy on the Batch bashing.

This is the preseason. It dont mean sheet. Batch has saved us many times before.

Shoulda kept leftwich? YOU ARE HIGH.

Shoulda picked up Vick? YOU ARE INSANE.

Tomlin stated fact. he said he didnt even consider vick as he has to give ben his undivided attention.

vick would be a HUGE risk/headache/possible bust/ animal rights picketing magnet who would need a TON of watching over.

They already caught vick in a bar drinking grey goose and pineapple ….no it doesnt violate parole. but it does show that he could go off the deep end with a mistake.

and leftwich wanted more money. LEFTWICH WANTS TO BE THE STARTER….

Again let me repeat myselft. with a porous O Line the starting QB is at risk to go down more than most qbs. we need to carry THREE qbs …. dixon is fragile. god love im and i do but hes already separated a shoulder for christ sake in the preseason.

and ben messed up his foot…..

we need an experienced QB like batch that knows the team completely…is willing to work for nothing….he does….and still has the skills to play in the nfl….hes got all of the qualities we need.

now as to who is number two and who is number three…..i dont give a flying RAT. we need dixon AND batch.

period.

and i seriously mean end of sentence

by Hi5Steeler on Aug 26, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You know how to tell people have a flimsy arguement...

When they state your point followed by calling you dumb for thinking it. Then they end their arguement with “period”.

I do agree with most of what you said about Leftwich, and needing three QB’s, especially a solid veteran in the mix. You are dead on. I just find it kind of juvenile to not have anything else to say other than “You are insane” or “You are high”. If you stated your case for Lefty wanting to be a starter instead of that, it will probably get your point across better. Just a thought. As far as Dixon being fragile, you need not look but one post above your’s to realize Batch isn’t exactly stone. Not negating your point about Dixon, just trying to prove injuries happen, and this is Dixon’s first in the NFL.

Also, if you can find me a link to where Tomlin said he never even considered Vick, I’d appreciate it. I’m not going to say they did consider him, because I do not know the truth, nor do you. Every single time Vick came up to Tomlin he was pretty coy and thoughtful in his responses, repeating that they do their “due-dilligence” on all free agents available to them. Never dismissing it, never admitting it, staying in the middle, if not leaning to admitting it.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Aug 26, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

check the deion sanders interview of tomlin

He stated there that he had to focus on ben and basically…vick would take away from it. he was being nice. they grew up in the same place and know each other….vick and tomlin.

as for insane and high both phrases are perfectly clear and clearly accurate regarding the posts I was replying about. If those were you dont worry, I have seen even less informed fans running around posting.

by Hi5Steeler on Aug 26, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

One thing on the scout team bit

Batch wasn’t running it last year due to injury. I heard he stuck around the team, helped, out, coached but he wouldn’t have been physically (nor I think able under NFL rules) to actually run the scout team. So presumably it was Leftwich or Dixon running it last year? The year we probably had the best Defense since that Ravens SB winning one?

Now I like Charlie a lot, in fact aside from Leftwich I would probably be a little iffy about any other backup, but one of your arguments about why he should be a player not a coach may actually be proof the other way.

by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 11:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs