Analysis of the possible 53 man active roster for 2009.
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 1:36 PM EDT
86 comments
My approach is a little bit different from most of the others I have seen to date. My analysis starts with the 53 man active roster of last year and I work from there.
The 53 man active roster I start with is the one that began last season. From that roster we lost eleven guys, for argument sake let’s say we brought one guy to replace each lost.
So here it goes:
Lost Leftwich brought in Charlie Batch.
Lost Washington brought in third round pick Wallace.
Lost Simmons brought in third round pick Urbik.
Lost Marvel Smith brought in Capizzi .
Lost Orpheus Roye brought in first round pick Ziggy Hood.
Lost Mc Fadden brought in third Round pick Keenan Lewis.
Lost Fernando Bryan brought in FA Ratliff
Lost Antony Smith brought in Mundy from PS.
Lost Larry Foote brought in Patrick Bailey (Woods is been move to the inside).
Lost (Thank God) Berger brought in Sepulveda.
Lost Gary Russell brought in Redman
Let’s say this 11 new guys plus the ones that where here from last year where the new 53 man active roster with which the Steelers started at training camp. Then the competition began, I will only list the competition where I think there is a possibility to change the name of the roster.
I think the only new guy that has for sure beaten the former man in the roster is:
Shaun MacDonald has beaten Dallas Baker.
The other competitions are not yet decided:
Summers against Davis, I think summers lost a great opportunity when he lost the short yard back battle against Redman, now he only does exactly what Davis does with out excelling at anything yet (exactly as Davis), with out the experience but with much more potential. I think summers goes to PS to gain that experience, specially at blitz pick up, where I think the Steelers are not going to take any risk with a rooky.
Johnson vs. McHugh, This is close, Johnson seems better at blocking and ST, but McHugh has the experience, I don’t know about catching, which we haven’t seen a lot from these guys, but I don’t think that will be the determinant factor. I will like to think Johnson gets the roster spot, but to close to call.
Edit: McHugh seems to be hurt, this makes the decision a lot simpler.
Sonny Harris vs. Travis Kirschke, I know a lot of people think the roster spot that is in danger is Eason, but if you are going to cut a veteran, why will you not cut the one that has only one more year as a Steeler? Travis is going to be 35 and Eason can give the Steelers 3 or 4 more years as a serviceable backup. What I believe this battle will depend on is whether the Steelers think they can pass Sonny thru waivers or not, if they think they can, Sonny will be in PS and will most likely be in the 53 man roster next year when Travis retires.
Legursky vs. Stapleton, They both are C/G swing backups, Stapleton has the experience and has “jell” with the rest of the starters, but Legursky just seems stronger and a better run blocker. The injury to Stapleton has made it hard to judge, because we don’t know how much has Stapleton improved. I think this will depend of Stapleton health, if he comes back is another year in PS for Legursky, if not he make the team.
Burnett vs. Madison, Joe blew a great opportunity to distinguish himself from Madison by been also a PR, I think he is better at nickel back but Madison is way better as a gunner in ST. I think for now this is more important for the Steelers (We are deep at DB). So Madison is winning this one. Joe has to play lights out as a gunner in the next two games if he wants a chance.
Roy Lewis vs. Mundy, Not impress by any of these two, Roy played better against Washington.
Patrick Bailey vs. Arnold Harrison vs. Bruce Davis vs. Andre Fraizer, These 4 are competing for 3 spots, Patrick Bailey and Arnold Harrison are the guys who weren’t in the 53 man active roster to start last year. I think Bailey makes the team as ST ace, not impress by the other 3, not matter which two makes it there is a huge drop from Woodley and James to these guys. Rotation could be a weakness for the Steelers this year.
Finally there are some guys who are competing to change the numbers, until this point of the analysis I have assume that the Steelers will keep the same numbers of players they did a year ago in every position, for example 9 OL. There are some players that are looking for the Steelers to change the numbers in their position.
Redman: Obviously his not competing against FWP, Mendenhall or Moore who where the 3 RB in the active roster last year from September 23 until Mendenhall got hurt. His only chance is for the Steelers to carry 4 RB. I think what plays against him is even if he makes the 53 roster no way he makes the 45 active players (I just don’t see how can you dress 4 RB), so he will not help in the short yard situation during actual games. So I really don’t see the point of him making the roster. I think he goes to PS and if someone goes down he will be call.
Foster: In theory he is competing against Urbik, in reality there is no way the Steelers will cut their third round draft pick (which is playing ok not great), others may think he is competing against Capizzi , but in reality Foster is practicing and playing exclusively as guard and Capizzi is playing exclusively at tackle, same for Hills. Yes, Foster was a tackle in college, but it doesn’t seem like the Steelers are looking at him that way. The only argument will be that the primary backup at tackle will be Essex and Stapleton will be place as guard again in case of an injury to Starks or Colon.
While this may be a possibility, you will only do it if you don’t have another choice, you don’t like to move so many people. So in order for the Steelers to consider this alternative Hills or Capizzi really have to suck and Foster has to play lights out better than at least one of them. I know there are a lot of people who think so, but I think they are playing OK, yes Hills had a tough game but he didn’t gave up any sacks and run block Ok. (As RT he suck but that’s a different story)
To me Foster best chance is for the Steelers to keep 10 OL so he may become the backup for Kemoeatu, obviously in this case he will also have to beat Legursky who could beat him out for the 10th OL spot.
All this could change if we see Foster playing at RT during the next games, in that case it will be Capizzi in trouble.
I know a lot of people will consider cutting Hills, but I think he is the only true LT in the roster, so I believe the Steelers will keep trying to make him a “football player” quoting Tomlin.
Logan: He is the new comer and I am sure making the coaches re-think everything. You really have to be special to make a team exclusively as a PR/KR, a la Hester. He is going to have to repeat with two stellar performances the next two games.
If he is only good he doesn’t make the team. Wallace will handle KR, and Moore, Holmes and Ratliff could handle PR. So he has to be spectacular. I guess we should see.
In any case where are these spots coming from?
I can only think of three places:
1.- Loose one OLB, in this case more likely Bruce Davis. This means go with only 8 LB and make Timmons your primary backup at OLB with whom ever makes the team between Fraizer and Arnold the second Backup. And put Fox as a starter when you move Timmons.
2.- Go with only three safeties, and use Ratliff and/or Deshea as your FS backup.
3.- Loose one Special Team player; Bailey or Madison. Maybe you could do this if Woods, Johnson, Arnold, Ratliff (As gunner) pick up their game. You could only take one away.
I personally will do number one. And keep Foster. If Logan performs the same as last time I will probably do number two.
So In conclusion I keep:
QB (3)
RB (3)
FB (1) Davis
TE (3) Johnson
WR (5)
OL (10) Foster, Urbik, Capizzi, Legursky (if Stapleton is out)
Offense (25)
DE (5) No Sony for now but I think he is very close.
NT (2)
LB (8) Cut Davis, and Harrison keep Fraizer and Bailey.
DB (6) Madison in, PS for Burnett.
S (3) Deshea and Ratliff will be use if necessary as backups at Safety.
Defense (24)
KR/PR (1) Logan, If he doesn’t show “it” again next games his out.
K, P, LS (3)
Special Teams (4)
Total (53)
Bruce Davis, Arnold Harrison, Joe Burnett , Roy Lewis , Mundy , Redman , Summers and Sony, will play for the last roster spot in the next two weeks.
Travis, Bailey, Madison, Logan, Carey Davis, Capizzi and maybe Hills could be whom they take it away from.
All in all that’s 13 new players or 25% change from last year roster.
On PAPER I like this team better. Although I think we are very slim at OLB, LT, FS, and weaker at Backup QB.
For a SB champion team to have 6 rookies in its roster is impressive. It could even go up to 8.
Thanks for your comments
2 recs |
86 comments
| Add comment
Email
Print
Comments
Nice Post
Couple things I’d like to point out.
1. I’d love to see David Johnson make the squad, but I’d like to see it at fullback. Unfortunately the Steelers just signed McHugh to a 3 year deal, therefore I don’t really see them keeping DJ over him.
2. I’d probably add AQ Shipley to the “fighting for a roster spot” list, as he’s looked solid in the preseason.
"That Troy Polamaga guy looks like Predator"-A keen observation during Superbowl 43. Thanks to Walterfootball.
by HighSchoolSteeler on Aug 26, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
1. Johnson vs. McHugh,
I don’t have the numbers of the contract, but I read it is very friendly, and you could cut McHugh any time with out a cap hit.
Any way I agreed with you, these two guys are better football players than Davis, but I will be surprise if the coaches agree with us.
2 . Shipley,
Agreed he is playing very solid, but he has two things working against him (And there are not his short arms);
Hi has not position versatility. Normally when you are fighting for a spot as backup in the OL, is a most you should have.
There are two many centers in the fight, Hartwig, Stapleton, Legursky and Him. It’s just an up hill battle for him, you don’t need more than two.
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cap hit is 390K signing bonus for Sean.
Willie Colon doesn’t get flagged because he has long arms; he gets flagged because he sucks. - cliff harris is still a punk!
by steelguy99 on Aug 27, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minus his salary, right?
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 27, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potentially. I believe it could be in his contract that if he was cut before the season starts he wouldn’t get his salary? Or are salaries guaranteed?
I think it’s the former if he doesn’t make the active roster for the season, and I don’t think McHugh would have had the negotiating power to get out of a stipulation like that.
Willie Colon doesn’t get flagged because he has long arms; he gets flagged because he sucks. - cliff harris is still a punk!
by steelguy99 on Aug 28, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris vs Kirschke vs Eason
Your point about Kirschke’s age in comparison to Eason is not as relevant as it would be if both weren’t old. As it is, If Kirschke can give provide better depth over the next year, which I believe he would, I wouldn’t want to see him cut.
by Marvin, The Paranoid Android on Aug 26, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would keep Harris and go with youth
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 Trivia
Here’s a question for anyone that thinks Travis Kirschke is in danger of getting cut.
Who was the Steelers starting LDE for the majority of the season last year? You know, the season where they were far and away the best defense in the league and won the superbowl on the strength of that defense?
Hint – the answer isn’t Brett Keisel.
by catesinator on Aug 27, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris would be snapped up...
…as someone else pointed out Ryan McBean may be starting for the Broncos in their new 3-4 Defense. Add in Kansas City and Green Bay who I question if any of them have the best personnel for the 3-4, there’ll be interest in him without a doubt. I think Harris is a must keep on the 53.
Have you miscounted on the OL as well? Or are you also keeping Hills? Personally I think they’d lose Hills before Bruce Davis but that’s just me. I see Hills and Capizzi fighting for one spot, not 2.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes I am keeping Hills
To me Hills is the only LT backup other than Essex. So he has a spot in the roster not because he is great but for lack of competition. And Capizzi is more of a RT.
Agree on Harris, but it is hard to find a spot for him if you don’t cut Eason or Kischke. And I agree with Marvin that the Steelers are looking to repeat, so you have to go with whom will provide the better depth over the next year.
On less you cut back OL to 9 and add a DE to 6
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me,
I think Essex is a better bet at LT than Hills anyway, so Hills would be the third, possibly fourth because I’d probably have Capizzi ahead of him too. Yeah I’d have only 9 guys on the OL and if the cut down were today I’d have:
Starks, Colon, Essex, Hartwig, Kemoeatu, Foster, Urbik, Capizzi, Legursky. Stapleton on IR, Shipley to PS.
That’s if it were right now.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if Stapleton comes back?
Who do you cut? Legursky?
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly...
I’d rather see if I could sneak Urbik onto the Practice Squad because it’s quite clear he isn’t ready yet but realistically I don’t think they do that to a third rounder so yes Legursky is the obvious one. Though I’ll be playing as close attention as I can to how Ramon Foster does if he gets in at Tackle. If he can play well there it could be bye bye Capizzi to make room for Stapler. But to clarify my list above I think these guys are all but certainties:
Starks, Colon, Essex, Hartwig, Kemoeatu, Foster, Urbik (though on play so far he shouldn’t be)
I think Hills and Capizzi are in direct competition for 1 spot.
I think Legursky goes back to the PS if Stapleton can play. If Stapleton can’t play, from what I’ve seen so far he and Stapler are pretty much interchangeable so I stash Stapleton on IR, give him a strength building programme for the season and move forward with Legursky. Hartwig is a free agent in 2010 so I probably need one of Legursky or Stapleton to be starting at Center in 2010. I think that would be the best way to keep both.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foster
I agree Foster looks good but if he doesn’t play Tackle what will be his roll on the roster ? On less you think Stapleton or Legursky are not the primary backups at Guard.
If he does play Tackle then you don’t need Capizzi. And Foster is a lock.
I guess you think he would be snapped up from PS, but he is a RFA and is maybe worth to try.
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he'd be snapped up necessarily
but that is exactly what I think, right now Foster should be at least our primary Guard backup and possibly should be starting at LG with Kemo playing RG. I think it would suit their skillsets better. Essex is extremely versatile, potentially covering all the OL slots bar C and Legursky or Stapleton covers C and G. Probably gives you an extra slot on gameday to have a guy like Hills or Capizzi who can dress and maybe get some gametime in a blow out. It’s going to be a tough cut down but still I think 9 OL and only one of Hills or Capizzi makes it. As I said with neither Hills not Capizzi elgible for the PS anymore I would prefer it if we could sneak Urbik onto the PS and keep one of Hills or Capizzi just so we don’t look so shallow at OT but I suspect if injuries meant one was needed, both Hills and Capizzi would be available as street free agents at that point.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throw Urbik in the Practice Squad. He does not belong in this 53 man roster
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but it’s not likely to happen. Urbik needs more strength. That’ll come with time. I think he’s just been caught out with how much better NFL players are than college. He may even be able to contribute later this season but as of right now, no he is not one of our 9 or 10 best OL men.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something about Logan
when I read that, in training camp, that they were trying him out as a return man, RB, and WR it made me come to two possible conclusions.
1. They like what hes doing as a return man but need to see if he is worth a roster spot, a.k.a can he do anything else? Basically, he won’t make it just as a return man.
2. They like him enough as a return man but out of curiosity wonder if they can use him more. He’ll make the roster as a return man, everything else is just out of curiosity.
ps. Devin Hester was originally a CB I believe. He wasn’t a pure return man. And now he is a WR (their #1 in fact).
by shleeve on Aug 26, 2009 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
About Hester
I believe Devin Hester was drafted in the third round as Return specialist, although he was a well bellow average CB.
But Chicago found out how hard is to keep on a roster a return specialist , so they have worked hard to develop him as a WR. And yes I believe his now their number 1
by mikemex on Aug 26, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but...
he’s no longer returning kickoffs. Danieal Manning will be doing that this yeah I think.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole Hester to WR is stupid. He is an average WR, all kinds of speed no route running and average hands.
As a Returner he was the most dangerous weapon they had.
To dedicate him to WR and remove him from returns? so stupid. No way he is a #1 WR. he should be a slot demon, he’d tear up and still stretch the field.
The fact that they put him at their #1 receiver is a tribute to how bad their recievers are and how badly they run their team.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 27, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m in total agreement. Manning is not a bad returner but he’s not Hester before they started trying to turn him into a WR.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Manning became their #1 return man because he did better at returning kick offs while Hester is a beast on punt returns. I don’t think they took kickoffs away from Hester because he was a WR.
by shleeve on Aug 27, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I think his having to learn to play WR significantly downgraded his ability as a kick returner. Manning was better than Hester at it last year because Hester got worse at it, not because Manning was better than Hester of 2006.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few thoughts
They’re definitely…
…not going into the season with less than 5 RB’s (inc. Davis). I think the 5th is Tank, who can play FB and teams unlike Redman (who will go to P.S.). If Tank stays injured Redman becomes more likely.
…going to keep Foster, who is their top G backup with Stapleton out, and is seeing work at T to add to his versatility. Also, definitely keep Stapleton.
…going to keep Anthony Madison, their best gunner
I also think they’ll keep Mundy, Burnett (IF he can avoid fumbling the next two weeks), and Sonny Harris.
So who would I cut to keep Summers, Mundy, Burnette, and Harris?
With Burnette and Wallace you won’t need Logan — yes, I know the guy had a great game, but he’s had catching problems in practice and needs to show something again before they keep a roster spot for a guy who can do only 1 job.
Also, I would cut Cappizzi or Hills, probably Cappizzi — we have decent T depth with Hills, Essex, or Foster / Urbik in a pinch, and i worry about Capp on the left side.
Lastly, I’d cut Keiwan Ratliff, who is decent but just a guy, and probably Kirschke just because of his age. Harris is very much on the bubble — he’s got game, but his position has good depth, but he may not pass waivers — and if he’s going to make the team it will come at the expense of a vet.
I think there’s going to be at least one semi-suprise vet cut with this many talented rookies. Candidates: Tyrone Carter, Deshea Townshend, Travis Kirschke
by syrsteelerfan on Aug 26, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Burnett is getting beat in coverage and fumbling returns, why is he worth a roster spot? He made an interception and was average at PR when he didn’t drop the ball.
Mundy has been very unimpressive. I don’t see us keeping him unless the whole Safety depth falls apart at the seams. (which could happen, it’s very thin.)
Could see Townsend cut, but not Kirschke. Hood and Harris may make it into the rotation at DE, but not till later in the year do you want them regularly getting good minutes. When they show they can handle it.
That’s why I see Kirschke on the roster for sure. It’s Eason vs. Hood for the last spot, they run a 4 DE rotation with 5 DE’s: Smith Keisel Kirschke and then the other two split time for the fourth. Hood will also see time at DT in passing downs.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 27, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’re not going into the season with less than 5 RB’s (inc. Davis). I think the 5th is Tank, who can play FB and teams unlike Redman (who will go to P.S.). If Tank stays injured Redman becomes more likely.
This is the worst definitely I’ve ever heard.
Willie Colon doesn’t get flagged because he has long arms; he gets flagged because he sucks. - cliff harris is still a punk!
by steelguy99 on Aug 27, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope it's fact
Any day now Arians is going to remove all doubt in a conference similar to the following:
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/8/14/989490/pittsburgh-steelers-defeat-arizona#19757412
by barnerburner on Aug 29, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
barnburner - That is so funny, I'm crying now!
Loved it then, still love it now!
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Aug 30, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad I have a fan
I was surprised how well it turned out throwing it together on the fly at 2 in the morning.
by barnerburner on Aug 31, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg Warren only does one job and I don’t think any of us would argue with his importance.
Don’t toss aside Logan because he can only do one job. If that job puts our offense on the 40 yard line every possession then hell, its worth 2 roster spots.
by shleeve on Aug 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Warren doesn’t just snap the ball. Watch him on the return. He hauls ass and makes tackles too.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well yea, but my point is Logan (assuming he keeps up what he is doing) is worth a spot even if its for only one job.
by shleeve on Aug 27, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If he can repeat what he did against the Redskins for the rest of the preseason he’s an absolute lock.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 28, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few things...
1. I’d go with the three safeties option personally. Roy Lewis + Ryan Mundy = not a whole lot to get excited about.
2. If Stapleton is healthy, he stays.
3. Donovan Woods made the 53 man over Patrick Bailey last year and Bailey only came back after Woods was injured. I would not be shocked to see the same thing happen again.
4. Maybe it’s me, maybe I just have a mental block or something with Anthony Madison, but I think it would be a terrible decision to keep him over Burnett. I’m probably totally wrong, of course.
5. I’d like to see Stefan Logan do something other than just return punts and kicks. Something. Anything. Kick an extra point even. Then let the anointing commence.
by pghnorthside on Aug 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s very good memory on #3! And a very good point here
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My two cents
This team needs to get younger and the FO has stated it wants to do just that with this class. Here are a few camp surprises that will need to be protected if that goal is to be achieved :
Sonny Harris- The guy will not make it to the PS if released, too many 34 teams looking at the Steelers for leftovers. Will make the squad before Eason if need be.
Ramon Foster- This guy is already one of their best run blockers and has outplayed Urbik and quite a few veterans. He’s got this team made
Donovan Woods- We kinda knew he had potential, but this guy is proving he’s a keeper. Special teams prowess puts him over the top.
Stefan Logan- He just needs to keep it up and they will make room for him. Answers a clear need and might provide depth on offense as well. I know we haven’t seen Wallace return kicks yet but he’s got the inside track right now.
David Johnson- Offers exactly what his older competitor does (McHugh) plus plays special teams. McHugh’s injury just secured his spot as the veteran will be released with compensation and kept in the bullpen.
Bandwagon I’m not getting on-
Isaac Redman- The guy is a one-trick pony who’s PS material if I ever saw it. Frank Summers brings a lot more to the table (I know his short yardage carries needs work but his blocking is pretty good and he’ll be just as good as Davis was on STs) and in the end they’ll protect their pick before a they do a free agent.
Bruce Davis- Never liked the pick (I wanted Cliff Avril and looks like I was right on that one) and he’s done nothing to prove me wrong. Bad fit, emblematic of the 2008 class and will get his last check very soon in favor of Patrick Bailey and Andre Frazier, both of whom are real football players and special teams players.
-The whole Mendenhall needs time BS. Does Matt Forte need time? Does Chris Johnson? Steve Slaton? or even mid rounders Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower? And in case you’re pulling out the Our Oline sucks mulligan, how’s Slaton’s line compared to ours? Thought so. Running back either have it or they don’t. It’s an instinctive position. People refer to Franco Harris struggling his first year but he was playing fullback in an era where that position was very demanding and needed to be learned. Mendy has about two months to prove me wrong, otherwise he’s just another Tim Worley: a workout warrior who’ll never pan out. Drinkyourmilkshake brought an excellent point to my attention: the Steelers never thought he’d fall to them at 23 so it’s quite possible they hadn’t done that much research on him and just drafted for value. He’ll still make the team because of his status but if he falters Mewelde Moore will be our 2nd back….
-The Burnett gets cut because he had a bad game line. So he’s not the punt returner we thought he might be and was burned for a TD. The kid has valuable skills, has a nose for the ball and has impressed coach Lebeau. He’ll make this team if only on potential. If Davis was kept last year you can bet the triple-mortgaged house he’ll be kept this year.
by Steelfrog on Aug 27, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow. some very good points. I agree with most of what you said.
I disagree on Redman and I’m not sure about Bruce Davis. Not sure if we should keep Davis or not.
I would like to see Redman make the team
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slaton's OL...
….is waaaay better than ours. Sorry but it is. This is not the same Texans line who got David Carr killed. They run a good system, that perfectly suits Slaton’s skills and have the OL guys to fit it. We don’t. Not even close.
Matt Forte couldn’t run for 4 ypc, Chris Johnson is in a run first offense with a really good offensive line. Tim Hightower? He did squat in real terms and Dallas never has problems running the ball regardless of who’s in.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your counter points, but Mendenhall just looks like a runner who doesn’t get it. I don’t think he will pan out, but he still is our best option at backup RB this year. To go with Redman over Mendy would not make sense. Mendenhall gets this year to show what he can do. I think he stays in the league even if we get rid of him. He’s not good right now, but he’s better than some other bums out there.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 27, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so sure
A good running back makes an Oline look better for several reasons. Our line didn’t look so bad when FWP was full speed. And a good running game puts them on the offensive and in less obvious passing downs. Big Ben is one of the worst QBs to block for, he’s great but as a coach I can tell you I’ve seen the type, great playmaker so nobody’s going to say it but he makes them earn their pay checks. Play extenders that move around makes everybody’s job more difficult, I won’t go into details but it’s tough. I think our group is average, but not as bad as people think. Put Dan Marino and a healthy FWP back there and they’d look waaaay better themselves. The Texans have an Oline with just about as much talent as ours, it’s just in a better position to shine. And Hightower scored 10 TDs in the regular season and 3 in post season. I’d take that production any day over Mendy’s.
by Steelfrog on Aug 27, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The OL changed greatly from 2007 to 2008
The only constant was the number of sacks.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Aug 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree
We didn’t look that good up front with FWP running the ball last year either. And the Texans, I’m sorry but they have waaay more talent for their system up front than us. It’s not even a discussion.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Kiwi
I thought the purpose of this was to have a discussion. My bad, I’ll go elsewhere…
Oh and by the waaaaay, adding AAAAs isn’t an argument. I’m just saying.
by Steelfrog on Aug 28, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry man
but simply making a statement without backing it up with anything at all isn’t a discussion either.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 28, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Team Age vs. Talent
I agree the team needs to get younger, but not at the expense of veterans who won the Super Bowl last year. You only do that when you miss the playoffs. Steelers DL has the most need for youth infusion. Obviously, you keep Hood. While there is debate on Harris, I say you keep him. No way he doesn’t get picked up by another team if you try to PS him. I say you play your starting DL and spell them as needed with Hood & Harris. In games like the Browns, Bengals, Chiefs, Lions, and other stinkeroos, you play our rookies most of the time, spelling them on occasion with the starters. Best way to get them up to speed quickly and prepared for the fast approaching future without risking a game loss.
I don’t believe you keep some youngsters, just because they are young. Burnett & Summers come to mind. I say risk exposing them to go on the PS. If another team claims them, you just take another CB or RB in the draft next year. All you sacrifice is the year of experience you would have had if you kept them. If you draft another CB or RB next year at a higher pick, then all the better.
Steelers Chick
by Steelers Chick on Aug 28, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one flaw with
“All you sacrifice is the year of experience you would have had if you kept them. If you draft another CB or RB next year at a higher pick, then all the better.”
If you draft the original player, with the thought that they won’t see the field much in the first year for developmental reasons, put them on the PS, another team claims said player, and you have to redraft another player at the same position next year, that player will need a year too. So now it has taken two years before you have a player ready at that position.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Aug 28, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No flaw
If the first guy wasn’t good enough to stick to begin with, you cut your loss, move on, and draft for the same position next year. Acknowleged, you sacrifice the years of development between the two players, but it’s better than keeping someone around who won’t be there in the long haul, or even the next year most likely. Aside from the draft, there is also the posibility of picking up an experienced free agent. Not a primary way for the Steelers to add talent, but on occasion they go that route and it works out.
Steelers Chick
by Steelers Chick on Sep 1, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-The whole Mendenhall needs time BS. Does Matt Forte need time? Does Chris Johnson?
What about Larry Johnson? Did he spend 2-3 years before starting? He was awful in his first year.
by Bonek on Aug 31, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mikemex: This post was awesome
awesome!
You da man, bro!
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the approach.
I don’t se Ziggy Hood accounted for in this post. Did I miss it?
Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile - Albert Einstein.
by fanofsteel on Aug 27, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oop, I got it on my 3rd re-read.
Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile - Albert Einstein.
by fanofsteel on Aug 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One problem with your analysis
Gary Russell was not on the 53 until Mendenhall went on IR. Mendenhall’s roster sopt replaces his. So you have 1 too many players.
by SteelerFan Ben on Aug 27, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gary Russell was on the 53 to start last season
When Woods got hurt Russell was cut and send to PS to bring Bailey in, then when Mendenhall went to IR 2 weeks later he was resign.
So the Steelers started with 4 RB + 1FB to start the year but went most of the year with 3 RB + 1 FB.
They only dress 3 RB does two weeks.
This is why I think is very hard for Redman to make the team, as Wes reportred today, inTomlin press conference he said in reference to Redman that “if you don’t play ST you won’t make the roster”
by mikemex on Aug 28, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure about that? I don’t remember Russel making the team from the get-go at all. I don’t know why Russell would have been cut to bring Bailey in, since Woods was sent down to the PS.
Willie Colon doesn’t get flagged because he has long arms; he gets flagged because he sucks. - cliff harris is still a punk!
by steelguy99 on Aug 28, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know have to do attachments, but here are some copy-paste
96 DONOVAN WOODS
PRO Signed as a rookie free agent by the Steelers on April 28, 2008…made the team’s active roster coming out of training camp as a rookie…released on Oct. 25, 2008 and signed to the practice squad on Nov. 1
55 PATRICK BAILEY
Signed to the Steelers’ practice squad following training camp…9/20: Signed by the Steelers to the 53- man active roster…
23 GARY RUSSELL
Russell was waived by the Steelers on September 20, 2008 to make room for linebacker Patrick Bailey, who was promoted from the practice squad to active roster. Russell was re-signed to the practice squad on September 23. Russell was promoted to the active roster again after rookie running back Rashard Mendenhall was placed on injured reserve
So Woods was sent down to thePS a month after Bailey was signed to the active roster.
by mikemex on Aug 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for refreshing my memory, I could have sworn that Russel started on the PS. The proof is in the pudding.
Willie Colon doesn’t get flagged because he has long arms; he gets flagged because he sucks. - cliff harris is still a punk!
by steelguy99 on Aug 28, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Steelers were ranked what in the Run Offense last year?
23rd or something?
If TE David Johnson is a better blocker than TE Sean McHugh, I think they will keep Johnson to improve the running game
If Frank Summers can become a better blocker at FB than Carey Davis, they will keep Summers over Davis
Mike Tomlin wants to improve the Running Game from last year
That is a primary goal right now
Better blockers
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
- 1 goal right now: better blockers to improve the running game
- goal: improve special teams in the kick and punt returns
Many games last year were very close. An improvement in the kick and punt return game can make a big difference
I say keep Stefan Logan and Ramon Foster and TE Johnson and Summers and Redman
To improve the running game and the kick and punt returns
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what you look at...
in total yardage our position is probably misleading because our Defense meant we could run out the clock in some games (or, as it more often happens, go 3 runs and punt then hope the D can contain). Our ypc average was I think 18th or 29th? I remember Detroit’s was better than ours which is frankly disgusting. We don’t have the personnel to run the OL scheme we’re supposed to be running so we look a complete joke up front.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stefan Logan will make the team and Isaac Redman will go to the Practice Squad
Mike Tomlin said that for Isaac Redman to make this team, he would have to play good special teams play.
by lightningrod on Aug 27, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not much LB discussion...
.
What I do read is that Woods and Fox are probably safe.
It is also said that there may only be one serious LB cut (taking Schantz and Korte aside).
Between Davis, Bailey, A Harrison and Frazier, which one? I’m thinking Bailey.
Who knew?
by Concomitandt on Aug 27, 2009 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Davis's spot probably hangs on other Special Teamers
if they feel they can get Bailey’s play replaced by the likes of say, David Johnson then yes Davis probably sticks. I think Frazier’s place is pretty safe, he’s comfortably our best OLB reserve (though I expect Timmons would move to OLB and Fox to ILB before Frazier got put on the outisde). I’d also expect them to yet again probably cut Arnold Harrison in favour of Davis so it depends if they keep 8 or 9. If it’s 9 I reckon both Bailey and Davis make the cut and Davis will be a scratch for games. Bailey plays ST. If it’s 8 it comes down to can they replace Bailey’s ST play with someone else on the roster. If they can Davis stays. I think they may try and do what they can to keep Davis. He was a lost man last year but he’s show some stuff in camp and in the Arizona game to warrant giving him another year to develop IMO.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 27, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that’s the hard part to figure out, at some point those ST/back-ups free up spots for specialists, just like the versatile O-lineman.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 27, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woods vs Bailey
Last year Woods won the ST specialist, and Bailey was sent to the PS. When Woods got hurt they brought Bailey back to play ST.
A year later Bailey has won experience and the Joe Green award. Is this enough to keep him? It is going to be hard because Woods has won the ILB backup spot.
I think that if the coaches want to keep Logan, 10 OL, and Harris they don’t have a choice but to cut Bailey , and hope that with Woods, Johnson, Madison, Davis, Fraizer/Harrison and Fox the ST coverege performs at the same level as last year.
To me only two of Bruce Davis/Fraizer/Harrison makes the team regardless of Bailey.
by mikemex on Aug 28, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody else want to post a 53 man roster analysis
I see three separate ones up on this message board right now.
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Aug 28, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll get working on two or three to fill the gap, can’t have non roster debate this time of year.
by Phantaskippy on Aug 28, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logan
I think if we make room for Logan, we would most likely see him play some type of “slash” roll on offense as well as KR/PR (without the passing) Getting him in even a small open space has potential for big plays. Also, if we make it work 1 or 2 times early on where he gets the ball in the flat, with Hines, Heath and who ever else out in front where Logan can break it for a good chunk of yards, teams will have to start game planning ways to stop it. Once that happens we can use him as a decoy as often as not. The blockers don’t even need to be good blockers in front of him, just be out there and he seems to be able to use them anyway. Not to mention his acceleration is pretty awesome. He gets the ball, you blink, and he is 5-10 yards down field.
by Steelde#1 on Aug 28, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could go for that .. .. ..
Tomlin is making it abundatly clear that anyone making the roster (aside from Reed, Robo-punter and Warren) must have “position flexibility.” Seems highly unlikely to keep anyone around if they can’t contribute elsewhere. Logan seem more likely to fit in on offense somewhere clever whereas a guy like Redman has not proven otherwise that he could. WORK HARD ON SPEC. TEAMS REDMAN!!!!
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Aug 28, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was exactly my point, chewie!
And it was made even clearer when Tomlin spelled it out a couple of day ago when he said that Russell made the team as a short yardage back by proving himself on special teams (not the other way around, mind you) and that Redman has to that. Until he proves he can be more than a one-trick pony, Redman is headed for the PS…
by Steelfrog on Aug 28, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I was agreeing with you 100%
The only managing Ben does is he manages to WIN games
by chewiesteeler on Aug 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stapleton to IR, Legursky in
According to Wexell.
That clears up the OL a bit. So starting 5 is Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Essex and Colon. Reserves: Urbik, Foster, Legursky definitely. Hills or Capizzi? My guess is Hills.
by pghnorthside on Aug 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would go for Capizzi myself...
but Hills was a draft pick and has definitely improved on last year. I don’t think Hills is PS eligible this year (may be wrong) but it’s possible they keep him around on the roster hoping he actually becomes something down the line (I can see them doing the same thing with Bruce Davis over Patrick Bailey too). As of right now I think Capizzi is the better player and Bailey is more useful for the STs play. But, you can only dress so many players on gameday. As such Bruce Davis may win out over Bailey, we’re only going to dress so many guys as ST specialists.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agreed
The battle is between Hills, Capizzi, Foster, or they keep 10 OL.
I know Foster has being playing great, but we are deep at interior OL, and very thin at T.
The Steelers may think he can pass waivers and get him to the PS.
Think about it, you have Legursky and Urbik as locks at backup position for the IOL.
As for Tackles if you go with Hills and Foster , who is your backup at RT? Foster?
On the other hand if you keep Capizzi and Foster. Who is your backup at LT? Would you trust Ben’s blind side to Capizzi?
Sure you can move Essex to LT and Starks to RT, but I am not buying this, unless it is for multiple games.
It could end been a numbers game for Foster, who could be heading to the PS and Hills and Capizzi get the spots in the 53, although he is shown he is better football player.
by mikemex on Aug 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Urbik will be a passenger all season unless he improves his strength dramatically so he won’t really be a backup at any position. Like Hills last year he probably won’t dress much, if at all.
Foster also has Tackle experience (in fact I think he was a Tackle in college?) If we keep Capizzi he’d probably be the swing tackle on game day but here’s what I think our gameday depth would be like given an OL roster of Colon, Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Essex, Legursky, Capizzi, Foster:
LT: Starks – Essex – Capizzi
LG: Kemo – Legursky – Foster
C: Hartwig – Legursky
RG: Essex – Legursky – Foster
RT: Colon – Capizzi – Foster
If we have 8 OL on gameday of course. Possibilities if we only dress 7?
by KiwiSteelerFan on Aug 31, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So your answer is...
You trust Capizzi to be the LT, I am not there yet.
Yes Foster was a Tacke in college, but he hasn’t been playing there so I am not sure the Steelers think he can help at that position.
Last year they normally dressed 7 OL on game day, so if you are right with the depth chart , Foster won’t dress much.
by mikemex on Sep 1, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as you can see from my post...
I trust Capizzi more than Hills to be our LT. I trust Essex more than Capizzi and Starks more than Essex.
That all seems pretty clear to me. And yes if they only dress 7 Foster won’t dress much. But neither will anyone who is the 8th OL guy. Urbik will be the 9th OL at best, 10th if they keep 10, and likely will not dress at all this year. You say we have good depth at IOL to justify keeping Hills over Foster, but who exactly is this interior depth?
Outside of the starters we’d have only Legursky. Urbik is not ready to don an NFL uniform yet. Not good depth at all. Foster’s a no brainer. If we keep 9 only one of Hills or Capizzi makes it, assuming they notice Parquet isn’t very good…
by KiwiSteelerFan on Sep 1, 2009 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blitz... Guys... love the site.
Long-time reader, first-time poster…
KiwiSteelerFan, I like your depth chart for OL. Agree that Legursky should & will be top backup for Center. If going with 7 on gameday, I think it’s possible Foster could be your other active, but I guess I’m good with Capizzi like you have it… although I feel if we’re looking for anything from the outside the next couple days, the most likely possibility would be at (Left) Tackle.
by steagle34 on Sep 4, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirschke,
no way does Travis leave. Yeah, he’s a low-snappage 35, but he can play every DL position. If Big Snack goes down, Kirschke is the only option.
My heros have always been Steelers...
by wozzle on Sep 1, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
From now on when anyone asks me my age, I am going to say I am a low-snappage ______.
by worldtrip on Sep 1, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm, what?
Hoke is hamp’s backup, and a pretty capable one at that.
by acrollet on Sep 1, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Kirschke will offer the most cap relief to cut out of him, Eason or Harris. That could be a major consideration as well as the non Cap status of 2010 means that any incentives that are earned during the season will be counted against the cap as soon as they are earned. Teams need some more wiggle room against the cap in season this year (which I think would be a big driving force behind why Kiesel was extended over the other guys, his new contract should save us a million or 2 under the cap). Imagine week 14, Harrison gets a sack total incentive, Big Ben earns some of his incentives… they could be looking at having to cut a player to stay under the cap at that point.
As Dale Lolley points out in his blog today, if it’s a straight choice between keeping Kirschke or Eason, they may opt to keep Eason because of cap concerns.
by KiwiSteelerFan on Sep 2, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last update
Shaun MacDonald has beaten Dallas Baker.
This remains true but, now MacDonald has entered the numbers games thanks to Logan; I still think he will make it, he is the only backup for Ward. He won’t dress on game days baring injuries.
Summers against Davis,
Injuries didn’t help, Davis did nothing to loose his spot, he still does wherever the coaches love that he does, summers didn’t show enough to sit Davis. Summers goes to PS.
Johnson vs. McHugh,
I believe Johnson had two bad games against the Bills and last night, it wasn’t just the penalties, he miss blocks left and right especially against the Bills. That forth down we didn’t convert was all on him, he missed his block and Redman was hit in the backfill. Anyway if McHugh is healthy Johnson goes to PS, if not he Johnson is in and cut when McHugh comes back unless he improves.
Sonny Harris vs. Travis Kirschke,
This one is though, Sonny made enough to make the roster but Travis did enough to show he is still a good player that can contribute for a SB run. I think they will try to keep both.
Legursky vs. Stapleton,
Injuries settled this one.
Burnett vs. Madison,
Burnett is all potential but is not ready to contribute now. I think this one goes to Madison and Joe goes to PS.
Roy Lewis vs. Mundy,
Mundy won this one last night, is it enough for a roster spot? I don’t think so.
Patrick Bailey vs. Arnold Harrison vs. Bruce Davis vs. Andre Fraizer,
Arnold Harrison and Andre Fraizer won this battle, it is going to be a tough decision to let go of Davis a former third round. But you can’t hit on every pick.
Bailey is now in the numbers battle.
Redman:
He did enough to be included in the 53 man roster, he played ST OK, I think he made it. To me this is a big surprise.
Foster:
As I said above " if we see Foster playing at RT during the next games, in that case it will be Capizzi in trouble". Well I guess Capizzi is in trouble he had two bad games and Foster is for real. I know a lot of people will consider cutting Hills, but I think he is the only true LT in the roster.
Logan:
I guess he is special after all.
The question to me is between Redman, Madison, Harris, MacDonald, Ratliff and Bailey who are fighting for four spots. I guess I will keep McDonald and Ratliff as insurance, Madison as my gunner and Redman who I think earned it. I will try to put Harris in PS and cut Bailey.
I guess the surprise I will be waiting for is to find out Harris made the team and they cut Travis, but I don’t think is going to happen.
So In conclusion I keep:
QB (3)
RB (4) Redman
FB (1) Davis
TE (3) Johnson for now
WR (5) MaDonald
OL (9) Foster, Urbik, Legursky , Hills
Offense (25)
DE (5) No Sony he was hard to cut, but couldn’t find a spot.
NT (2)
LB (8) Cut Davis, and Bailey keep Fraizer and Harrison.
DB (6) Madison in, PS for Burnett.
S (3) Deshea and Ratliff are the backups at Safety.
Defense (24)
KR/PR (1) Logan,
K, P, LS (3)
Special Teams (4)
Total (53)
Bruce Davis, Joe Burnett , Roy Lewis , Mundy , Summers , Sony and Capizzi are out.
by mikemex on Sep 4, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
