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Around SBN: Troubled Yankees Join Troubled Red Sox In Last Place

Should we become Arizona East?



When Whisenhunt took the job in Arizona there is little doubt that he wanted to establish a ball-control team and set up over there what had worked for him in Pittsburgh. When he got there, however, he took a gander at his roster and went with a predominantly passing offense instead... And came pretty darn close to winning a Superbowl!

Let's take a look at his, shall we? We have very good receivers, an impressive pass blocking line (they often gave a ridiculous amount of time to Ben against a solid Titans Dline) and of course one of the best quarterbacks in the business. Add a pretty good ace back in Mewelde Moore and we have all the ingredients. Now I'm all in favor of a strong running game but you play the hand you're dealt, right?

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It sort of weirds me out to hear our OL called “impressive” in pass blocking. They managed to pick up TN’s 3 to 4 man rushes for a ridiculous amount of time (without getting penalties), but I’m not sure I’d call them impressive yet.

by BluegrassSteeler on Sep 11, 2009 2:28 AM EDT reply actions  

co-sign with bluegrass

Yes they were able to put together a great string of plays resulting in ball movement and points. Yes they were able to block a very good D-line for an extended period of time in a crucial part of the same game. Yes there were able to do both without penalties.

HOWEVER, if we’re going to go with the cards (get it?) we were dealt, we must keep in mind that we have BA. I’m not sure who called the no-huddle but it was a great decision and when those are made offensively by the Steelers, I don’t immediately think of BA. I think we should look at widening our O-lines stances and hope that we’re able to create some seams for Willie and Wendy (pun intended) to push through. Give the opposition the look of pass and pray that they win a few one-on-one battles.

Willie is scared to get hurt in his contract year, Wendy is scared he’ll become the next Kinjina Carter and based on first impressions, Frank looks like the late Big Pun without Fat Joe. All of the RB’s except MeMo get three weeks to get it together. Then, Frank goes on the waiver wire and we call up Redman. Chicago is beatable w/o Troy, as is Cincy… SD, I don’t know just yet.

Alright, okay, I don't dance, no way I just take my Terrible Towel out and wave it around in the air!!!!

by Steel R on Sep 11, 2009 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know about Arizona West

but the Steelers are better suited for the kind of offense the Bills ran in the 90s. Their line seems to be better blocking for a spread/plain shotgun offense. They have fast tall recievers with a possesion/game breaking receiver, a typical spread running back (Mendenhall), great 3rd down back who can also play every down (Moore), a speed back (Parker) and a great QB.

Don’t get stuck on my comparison to the BIlls. The Steelers actually WON a Super Bowl and it’s defense had a lot to do with it. However I think this offense is comapable to the Bills’ 90s offense which also ran the no huddle very well. You may be looking at the Steelers answer to the “K gun” named after Jim Kelly. Shall we call it the “BB gun?” Naw that’s a ball on a tee to the hater….how about the “Big gun” or “BFG?” That’s it…..

Say hello to my lil friend! The “BFG”. and I don’t mean big friendly giant.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 11, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good comparison

Our offense looked a lot like Arizona’s in the Super Bowl. We had a ton of success passing once we got it going (well, once Ben stopped over or underthrowing his WR’s), and the running game just looked like a waste of time. Good thing we focused on the running game after running downfield with the no huddle spread attack.

Ben would be the best damn QB in league if we had a decent OC with the courage to point us in a direction.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Sep 11, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

NO, No, A thousdand Times No

There is a reason why teams with high octane offenses have defenses that suck, and teams that run the ball generally have great defenses.

In order for a Defense to be a smothering, take no prisoners type of defense, you have to get the off of the field so they can rest.

You cannot score in 17 seconds and then put them back on the field. We need to run the ball and control the clock in order to give our defense time to recharge their batteries.

Even a west coast offense doesn’t count, because every time a play misfires in west coast, it stops the clock. This means more football played per hour, and it means the defense will end up having to play more.

We need a running attack of some sort. I don’t care if it is the stretch draw, reverses, or what have you. But we need to burn the clock and let Deebo and Company catch their breaths.

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 11, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, right now (and it’s been this way against decent defenses since 2006) the running game is only contributing to getting us off the field quicker, while Ben was able to put together some clock killing “hurry up” (note quotes) drives. Effective offense is what keeps the defense off the field, not running the ball. What does is matter if we go 3 and out trying to run the ball or have an occasional series of 3 incompletions?

By the way, two of the most high powered passing offenses in the past 10 years (2001 Rams and 2007 Patriots) had very respectable defenses, largely because they were playing with a lead most of the time.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Sep 11, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you BM

I love a solid running game to grind the clock. But three and outs aren’t going to do it. Coaches need to play to their players’ strengths in order to get the best results. And you can grind the clock with a good passing game : you use up the clock, go with high-percentage short passes and just convert! You need those first downs. Plus you don’t need much more than 20 points for us to win with our defense, even in a shootout I’m pretty sure they’d hold their own. Polamalu gone for over a month hurts us, though…

by Steelfrog on Sep 13, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't change the need

I’m not saying that we need a 3 and out offense. I am saying that we need an effective running game if we want to make it to the super bowl.

Have you guys forgot the tommy gun offense so fast???

You are not going to win December football, in Pittsburgh, by throwing the ball 40-50 times a game. And our defense will not be able to play the kind of schemes we play now if we are back on the field in a hurry.

The running game simply has to get on track. A win is a win, and I won’t sweat the details — but looking forward to the next game, we cannot abandon the run. We just need a little more execution.

FWIW, I think Ben’s performance will loosen up the defenses a little. Titans had 8 and 9 in the box and dared Ben to beat them. Well, he did. So, now maybe other defenses won’t play it the same.

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 14, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why can't the same guys

Run block with power and pass block a zone?

by SNW on Sep 11, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Some can. Same skills sets needed

The difference is better shown than explained. Here’s an idea though. Zone blocking for pass is tought on all levels of football. Zone blocking for running isn’t. Ok let me check that because there are some crazy brave coaches that try it. It is extremely difficult to teach to pee wee football players.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 11, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

tought=taught wow

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 11, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me add one more thing

There is an unspoken assumption in what I am about to say. If a coach that teaches zone run blocking doesn’t have a firm grasp on the principles he’s preaching. It will make the blockers look like they are lost.

May be an assumption in this too. When a player is not use to zone run blocking and they are just learning it: if the coach teaching it doesn’t make his scheme crystal clear, veteran line men (ashdkFANECAasjsh) will fight you tooth and nail.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 11, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is how it is:

All NFL pass blocking that I’m aware of is “zone” blocking. When a blitzer comes up the middle, the center comes off his double team to pick him up. When DL’s stunt (switch places) the OL’s are supposed to pick up the guy who is coming into their zone, instead of following “their guy” (ie the guard picks up the DE instead of following the DT to the outside). You need to be strong in order to pass block, but it’s better to be athletic, have good balance, and be very aware of your surroundings; you need to see where the pressure is coming from, and have the ability to get into proper position so you can block whoever is coming and maintain good leverage. Good leverage always beats raw strength. That’s why a guy like Kemo or Hartwig ends up in the backfield some of the time; they have to lunge and play with poor technique because they make mental mistakes or can’t get into position in time.

In the running game, there are two predominant blocking schemes: zone and man. Zone blocking works pretty much like pass blocking and uses the same skill set: some strength, but mostly awareness, athleticism, balance, and technique. That’s why a lot of passing teams use zone blocking; good pass blockers are typically good zone run blockers. The OL makes sure everyone is blocked, and the running back has the freedom to pick the hole he likes best (often referred to as his “one cut” as he starts in a direction and cuts through a gap).

Man blocking involves opening one hole in a specific place, often leaving non-play side defenders unblocked or underblocked (ie a TE or WR on a DE). That’s the traditional Cowher scheme. Alan Faneca runs to the other side of the line (or “pulls”) and cracks a LB, the FB gets another LB, and there’s a gaping hole for FWP to run for a 75 yard TD. Mobility is somewhat important, but you know where you’re going and who you’re going to block, so you need less awareness and balance. Usually man blockers are stronger and a little less athletic, often described as “maulers”.

It’s rare that a guy is a great pass protecter and man blocker. Teams like the Titans and Giants have lines that can do both, but they’re rare and expensive. It’s more common to see teams who want good protection for their passing game (like the Colts and a lot of college programs) use zone blocking as a way to have a moderately effective change of pace running game. Usually “run first” teams use a man blocking scheme, but there are some exceptions. The Shanahan Broncos and their imitators used an ethically questionable version of the zone blocking running game that involved diving at the defenders’ knees (legal if they aren’t otherwise engaged), which tends to open larger holes (such as those in opposing players’ ACL’s) than more conventional zone blocking running games.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Sep 11, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a pretty good explanation in it's simplest form

I think the steelers’ line problems are mostly mental. I think there is still some confusion (maybe it’s Zierlein that’s confused) that is causing these guys to be a step slow. If the mind isn’t in it 100% you have lost 99% of the battle. Even the lack of athleticism (meaning physical tools) can be over come by great instinct.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 14, 2009 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Zierlein

When blame needs to be passed out for the horrible running games, I am convinced that Zierlein should be standing first in line.

I think the running game went to hell when Russ Grimm left, personally…

by MarkJoel66 on Sep 14, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm leaning that way myself

I’ve seen how a confused line works. I have had to come in and fix offensive lines before. They look like they are confused. Especially the run blocking. I would be interested in knowing how long Zierlein has been using the zone blocking scheme.

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

by PixburghArn on Sep 14, 2009 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is this new?

May I just point out that I said during the season last year that the Steelers were currently in the process of moving to a pass first offense. It makes sense. When you have a Ben R. at quarterback, you go with your strength.

by worldtrip on Sep 14, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

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