Lack of sacks

by GDEUCE on Sep 21, 2009 4:51 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

Through the first two games i've noticed that James Harrison & LaMarr Woodley arent getting to the QB that much. Only James Farrior & Aaron Smith have a sack a piece (another if they change Tyrone Carter's tackle of Jay Cutler to a sack). I'm just wondering if the Bears and Titan's lines are that good, I also hope they turn Lawrence Timmons loose against the Bengals next week, and not just use him in nickel packages.

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Courtesy of BadMaafala in another post

I’m not concerned about the "lack of pressure" because there is no lack. If we weren’t getting pressure on the QB, teams would be throwing deep on us. I mean our starting safeties are Ryan Clark and Tyrone Carter – not exactly interception machines – but how many times did the Bears or Titans throw down the field against us?

Teams know what Woodley and Harrison bring, and they’re not stupid enough to challenge them. Also, we’ve gone against 2 QB’s that were sacked a combined 19 times last year. Obviously Cutler doesn’t have as sweet an OL in Chicago as he did in Denver, but he knows how to avoid sacks and it showed Sunday.

It would be nice to get a little more interior pressure (true last year as well) to push the pocket and make QB’s back into our OLB’s (maybe Hood), but Harrison and Woodley have been getting plenty of penetration, playing great in the running game, and making offenses scared to throw deep. When Troy comes back, this defense will be great again and we’ll have plenty of time to fight our way to the division title if we take care of business on the offensive side of the ball.

Willie Colon - top 2 RT in the NFL

by steelguy99 on Sep 21, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I second that notion, sort of

Sacks are not the truest measure of QB pressure, although it is one. First of all, last year was last year. The Titans are not the same team, nor are the Steelers, Bears, Pats, etc. This year, the Texans sacked Kerry Collins as many times as the Steelers did and the Packers sacked Jay Cutler more times than the Steelers. Each QB threw more passes against the Steelers than their other opponent.

Well, maybe you say that these teams were not throwing downfield against us. You would be right about the Bears, although Jay Cutler’s stats would look a lot better if his receivers held onto the ball. But this simply isn’t true as to the Titans. Kerry Collins had a higher Y/A against the Steelers than the Texans, meaning he threw downfield more (or more successfully) against the Steelers.

INTs or completion percentage often tell a better story of pressure than sacks. Unfortunately, the Steelers one INT this year was due to Polamalu’s God given athleticism and not front seven pressure. Jay Cutler completed 71.1% of his passes (23% better than GB, who put more pressure on him) while Collins completed 63% of his passes (roughly half a percentage point better than against Houston). This year, the Steelers just aren’t getting the pressure. Yet.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Sep 21, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, allow me to retort

This year, the Texans sacked Kerry Collins as many times as the Steelers did and the Packers sacked Jay Cutler more times than the Steelers.

You’re talking about one game. The Texans (specifically Mario Williams) sacked Collins once. The Packers sacked Cutler twice. You can’t use those tiny numbers as evidence that our pass rush is about the same as those teams. Right now all we know is that the Titans and Bears largely avoided sacks against the other teams they played and they did so against us as well.

Kerry Collins had a higher Y/A against the Steelers than the Texans, meaning he threw downfield more (or more successfully) against the Steelers.

While YPA and throwing downfield are somewhat correlated, there are dozens of other factors influencing YPA including YAC, which has nothing to do with throwing downfield. Besides, the difference between 7 and 6.5 YPA in 35 samples is statistically meaningless. You also convieniently left out the fact that Cutler put up a considerably higher YPA against Green Bay, although that too is insignificant.

INTs or completion percentage often tell a better story of pressure than sacks.

Once again, there are too many other factors confounding the statistical measures you’re using to judge our pressure by them. Specifically the best DB in the league is on the sidelines, our best cover LB is gimpy, and we have a green starting CB. On top of that, short passes are easier to complete and harder to intercept and, as mentioned elsewhere, Cutler and Collins never take sacks.

Instead, let’s look at the actual plays. Off the top of my head, I remember 2 downfield throws from Tennessee – the one that Troy picked (with Collins underthrowing due to some serious pressure), and the long pass to Britt in the two minute drill. They may have attempted some others, but they didn’t complete any others over 20 yards. Also, Cutler only threw mid-to-deep on a handful of plays with mixed results.

I’ve seen Woodley and Harrison beat their guys and affect the play, I’ve seen Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton get into the backfield, I’ve seen some of our blitz packages work very well and force incompletions. The pass rush is there, but teams haven’t needed to throw the ball downfield to win, so they haven’t. When Troy and Timmons are back at 100% and we maybe tighten up the coverages a bit, you’ll see more sacks and fewer completions.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Sep 22, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken about the small sample size

and I think that the stats will get better, especially with Cincy coming up next week. But those stats tell me more than “off the top of my head.” Of course, the main thing coming off the top of my head is hair.

During the first two weeks are pass rush was adequate. Yes, there were some plays where the QB was sacked and/or pressured. But two teams have successfully negated our pass rush with short passing routes. I’m not throwing up the white flag on the season, but the pass rush needs to improve.

by CarlWeathersMustache on Sep 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

quick release

Both Collins and Cutler have quick releases when they are in rhythm, which makes them both tough to sack. when Cutler is in the shotgun he just back peddles and if he has no where to go he throws it away. In other words they are tough to get sacks on. I think we have had decent pressure against two pretty good OL’s. One other thing to consider is that it is riskier to blitz without Troy back there and while I have’nt looked up stats, I thought it seemed like we didn’t blitz as much as we usually do.

by DarinS on Sep 22, 2009 1:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here is a stat that might help explain the lack of pressure on Cutler and Collins.

Both Kerry Collins and Jay Cutler are in the top ten in lowest sack percentage for a single season for the lack of sacks they took in 2008 according to profootball reference. These are two guys that know how to avoid sacks.

I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!

by drinkyourmilkshake on Sep 22, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Collins had .5 average per game… 8 on a year. Thats untouchable. And Silverback was one of those 8 last year. So ponder on that. 16 opponents, over 200 defensive players, and our silverback was just one of 8 to touch the QB.

by Mechem on Sep 25, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many sack titles trophies are on the way to Tomlin's office?

Zero.
The D allowed 27 points in two games. 13.5 × 16 = 216 for the season.
Really not bad. The O (plus Reed) needs to score more than the 13.5 per game or we are in for a long season.

by SNW on Sep 22, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Preach it.

Willie Colon - top 2 RT in the NFL

by steelguy99 on Sep 22, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love that line works for any occasion.

by SNW on Sep 23, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steel Losers

The bears o line is that good. We have at least two hall of famers on the line in kreutz and pace.

P.S. Jay Cutler turned the “Steel Curtain” into some pink drapes last sunday

by WavyGravy on Sep 25, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Its been good O-lines really

Generally speaking Its a two fold factor. Firstly, those teams are great running teams. Therefore, their passing games are not as fancy and detailed. In other words, that means shorter drops, faster short routes, and less deep drop and throw.

In addition good running teams have good O-lines most all the time. This has been the case with the last two opponents.

This week we play a more pass heavy offense that has a subpar LT. Watch the Silverback make banana squash out of Palmer. I’m predicting a mult-sack game for the big man.

by Mechem on Sep 25, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs