BTSC Steelers Daily Six Pack- New Ownership Edition
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 23, 2009 11:37 AM EDT
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PrintIX-BTSC frequenter WolfpackSteelerfan has posted another solid entry at his site, Checking the Numbers. His entry is a recap the week two game versus the Bears, and he breaks down the Steelers and Bears defense during the game and the Steelers are actually looking pretty good via his analysis despite the lack of pressure and turnovers that really frustrates us Steeler fans who live for the big impact plays. Although, Ron Cook of the Post Gazette doesn't seem to think the Steelers' defense deserves any credit.
X-Ben Roethlisberger holding onto the ball too long used to be an opinion that his critics would state about him when they were dissecting why he is not an elite quarterback in the NFL. But at some point in the last few season this turned from an opinion into some sort of truth that will be etched on his tombstone along with some smart-ass comment about him fixing the T.V. But AOL Fanhouse has decided to take this "truth" and is going to try and find out what kind of merit it has. You will be surprised by the early results of their "study" although the sample size is so small right now that the data is completely irrelevant.
XIII-Quietly under the radar one of the most drastic changes in the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers will be happening in the next few days. John Stallworth and nine other new ownership groups will be closing on their purchase of a portion of the Pittsburgh Steelers. While in the short term I don't see much changing, the fact that ten new voices will have a say in the Pittsburgh Steelers operations could result in some changes in the future. Perhaps the new ownership group will be more aggressive with marketing the team in an effort to drive more revenue into the pockets of the new owners. Any changes BTSC readers see on the horizon?
XIV-The Wildcat before the Wildcat was Kordell "Slash" Stewart and Pittsburgh fans who have the versus network will be able to watch Kordell in all his glory this year where he will in the broadcast booth for games in the upstart UFL league. Kordell will be joined by Heisman trophy winner and underrated former NFL player Doug Flutie. Kordell & Flutie are responsible for two of the most memorable plays in college football history, but they were not quite good enough to find that success in the pro-game even if it was opportunity or circumstance that prevented it. But it is certainly ironic that they will be calling games for a bunch of guys that can't make it at the next level.
XL-One decent run and we already have a running back controversy in Pittsburgh? The success of fellow running backs taken in last years draft like Chris Johnson, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, and even Matt Forte have definitely overshadowed Mendenhall in terms of national media attention but Rashard is still very young and has a little bit of time before people start applying the "B word" when referencing his name. Hopefully his performance in Chicago will get him some more touches.
XLIII-Former Steeler and N.Y. football Giant, Plaxico Burress began his two year prison sentence yesterday after he was sentenced by the N.Y. City Court. Will Plaxico Burress ever suit up on Sunday in the NFL again? Plaxico will be eligible for parole after 20 months in prison, but could still face more suspension from the National Football League. Average NFL players rarely get a second or third chance, but physical freaks like Plaxico are often awarded more chances than they deserve. If he is re-instated by the league I would be surprised if he didn't sign with a NFL team when he is eligible.
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Based on his writing about the Pirates, I’ve concluded that Bob Smizik is an idiot. There’s nothing particularly disagreeable in that column other than sensationalizing (or lightningrod-ing) a couple of clearly stupid positions before destroying them, but there’s nothing particularly meaningful in there either. I’d also recommend not reading comments anywhere on the PPG site.
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by BadMaafala on Sep 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Stallworth
I’m impressed that Stallworth has enough cake to buy a piece of the team.
This is from his wiki page: “In 1986, he founded Madison Research Corporation (MRC), which specialized in providing engineering and information technology services to government and commercial clients. Under Stallworth’s leadership, MRC grew to more than 650 employees and $69.5 million in revenues(FY03)….In October 2006, the sale of MRC to Wireless Facilities Inc. was completed, and at that time it was announced that Stallworth would pursue other interests.”
The sale price of the company was separately reported as $69m.
That’s awesome. I’m happy for Stall, who was my favorite player as a kid.
I would expect no changes at all in the way the team is run. It’s already a model franchise and none of these new owners own enough of a piece to change anything.
by Steelers in XLIV on Sep 23, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
Oh Smizik, you so crazy
Smizik is an idiot based on his writings about anything. Wolfpacksteeler’s breakdown was very good and I think it shows the importance of “splash plays.” The defense is still tackling and covering just as well as last year. That’s why the yards per play, total yards, etc. look pretty good. But the lack of splash plays (INTs, sacks, fumble recoveries) has allowed teams to stay on the field longer.
This prevents the Steelers from pulling away from an opponent such as the Bears. You let an offense run long enough and it will put up a few points. This is what the Bears did and the Steelers lost. Of course, the Bungles are usually good for a few splash plays.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Sep 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
Good point about splash plays
Certainly missing Troy on that front, I think. Still, the defense played good enough to win most games. The offense needs to score more than 14 points in a game.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Another point
for the most part, turnovers are a function of the offense, not the defense (player and team turnover rates are much more stable on the offensive side of the ball). Everybody hates to hear it, but winning the turnover battle is much more about protecting the ball on offense than taking it away on defense.
For instance Cleveland had a combined 34 interceptions/forced fumbles last season – one more than the Steelers. (And of course even when you do force a fumble, recovery is essentially random. You can’t practice having a ball bounce to you.) Overall, they had 32 takeaways to 29 for the Steelers.
On average, a good defense will make more turnovers than a bad one, but the correlation is far from 1:1.
That’s an interesting point that sounds logically reasonable, but I’d want to see some sort of study before I’d assume that it’s true. I know some statistical analyses of football have greatly downplayed the repeatability of turnovers in general.
Anyway, no example stands out in my mind better than the 2005 Bengals when 18 of their league high 31 interceptions came against Culpepper, Favre, Garcia and a rookie Kyle Orton in the NFC North. They went from being a shitty defense in 2004 to being an “opportunistic” defense in 2005, and back to shitty in 2006. Or maybe they were just shitty the whole time…
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IIRC, they had a lot of INTs in 2006
Even if they were a sieve otherwise.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No, just checked pro-football-reference.com
They went from 31 INTs in ’05 to 19 in ’06. I must have been consoling myself with that thought when Ben threw 3 in one game to them or something.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just don’t get what an “elite” QB is. Are you talking about a guy that puts up huge numbers but doesn’t win, or a guy who you can tell is very good but doesn’t get enough opportunities to show it?
Give Ben a good o-line and he will have at least 5 seasons that will rival his 2007 season in terms of numbers. Also the defense has a say in how a QB performs as well. If your defense isn’t all that great, that means you’ll need to score more points on average because you’re going to give up quite a few. That means more chances for the QB to put up big numbers.
As far as the defense is concerned, yeah it’s nice to have picks and lots of sacks but if you are flat out stopping teams from scoring what’s the point? We allow two touchdowns to an elite QB and everybody loses their mind.
by StoneColdSteel on Sep 23, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
Cutler’s an elite QB?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 23, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
He certainly looked poised to join the elite QBs after his season last year, I’d say. Of course, you never know what will happen, but he looked like a keeper (unless you’re Josh McDaniels ;) ).
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
8-8 isnt elite
Again I dont consider you to be elite unless you win some. Yes I know his team had no defense behind them but he had a few chances he could have risen up and helped and didnt.
No it isn't
but didn’t the Saints go 8-8? And Drew Brees is certainly considered an elite QB.
My point about Cutler wasn’t that he is certainly elite. It was more that he may be. After putting up over 4000 yards in his 3rd season, you certainly had to think he was poised to join the elite ranks if you were a Broncos fan.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats valid
I agree on your point there.
But you know I still judge more by wins. Brees has tons of weapons around him. Why couldnt he win more with the Chargers who had Gates and a great LT and a slightly better defense?
I just think to be elite, you gotta have some wins after week 17. Brees is 3-3 but that was a while ago, and Cutler is 0-0…
I consider McNabb, Warner more elite for instance
Sure
I wouldn’t argue against McNabb and Warner being more elite than Cutler and Brees, or at least more accomplised for sure. The problem with those guys is that they have 1-4 more years left in them (2 tops for Warner, maybe 4-5 for McNabb). Cutler should just be entering his prime, while Brees is clearly in his prime.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Interstingly
Both the Saints and the Broncos have/had weak defenses. I heard on Sunday’s broadcast that Cutler is 13-1 when the Broncos held their opp to 21 pts or less. Made me think about his record a bit.
I have no idea whether he is “elite” or not and I’m not qualified to judge, just found that stat interesting.
Absolutely not
You can’t judge a QB only by wins: Drew Brees is a great QB despite the fact that he hasn’t won much of anything. But Jay Cutler hasn’t won anything since high school (he may not have won anything in high school either, I don’t know). The guy was not a winner in college, and he’s not a winner in the pros.
He did have great stats last season, but the Broncos D was so bad that Cutler faced a lot of prevent-esque D where he was able to rack up some numbers. Also, it’s one season, with a pretty good O line and receivers. Cutler is only elite if you consider the top 1/2 of NFL QBs elite.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Sep 23, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
College
He was by far the best player on his team in college. I remember a game that Vandy took Florida to OT with him at QB, and the only reason it happened was Cutler’s play. His NFL career is still TBD, but in college he was a very good player on a very bad team.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 23, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Cutler is only elite if you consider the top 1/2 of NFL QBs elite
I don’t know if he’s elite, but he in the top ten in a quickly growing pool of good QB’s.
This is a somewhat tangential comment, but a couple years ago, there were very few quality QB’s. Rivers and Eli were question marks, Romo was an unknown, Brees was getting kicked out of San Diego, Garrard was nobody, Schaub and Rodgers were backups. There was Brady, Manning, Palmer, Hasselback, “meltdown” Delhomme, “game manager” Ben, “injured” McNabb, “retiring” Brett Favre, “weak armed” Pennington and “non-HOF” Warner.
In the last few years, though, all those guys have emerged as “guys you can win with” (even if they aren’t all world beaters), and a couple of strong QB classes have brought in Flacco, Ryan, Cutler, and Cassell, who have all shown some degree of promise. I don’t know if there have just been better talents coming into the league, or if teams are getting better at bringing young QB’s along, but in my opinion the quality of average starting QB’s is a lot higher now than it was a few years ago.
All that to say being in the top half of QB’s is nothing to laugh at anymore.
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agree….I was just thinking about that myself///
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 23, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Tebow could go anywhere from the top 10 to the fifth round. I seriously have no idea where he’ll end up in the NFL. He’s a unique talent, but he doesn’t have a typical NFL QB’s skill set. I like McCoy a bit better, but I’ve been impressed the most by Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford. Clausen is Brady Quinn, only he can throw an out.
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Bradford
at this point is the only one that I think can be a good NFL starter.
Tebow – unique talent, but as a passer he has sooo many issues* it’s hard to imagine him running a professional offense. Something tells me the QB dive won’t be quite as effective.
*Slowest motion than Byron Leftwich, average accuracy, average arm strength, bad footwork,stares down his receivers, doesn’t take snaps from under center, doesn’t do dropbacks, doesn’t do hand-offs, rarely plays with fewer than four wide receivers and more often five, doesn’t fell pressure particularly well…
After watching a couple ND games, I’ve been very impressed with Clausen. He throws down the field more than Bradford and has a huge arm, and he really seems to be putting everything together this year. Bradford is still the safe bet at this point, but he doesn’t have the breathtaking arm that Clausen has.
charity standing orders
Best college QB I’ve seen this year is Jake Locker. Great arm, big, strong, mobile and now has a decent coach.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s really not yet, but to everyone else he is. Bears fans think he’s God.
by StoneColdSteel on Sep 23, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
Tommy Maddox was God-Like after Ken Graham. You have to keep that in perspective. The Bears have had nobody at QB for decades, to go from that to a strong armed young pro-bowl QB, it’s a huge step. Especially after watching Brett Favre torment you for a decade.
by Phantaskippy on Sep 23, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
About the fanhouse post
It’s a good gauge of where the pass protection is for these teams. some guys are getting hit early, other guys get hit on extended plays. Ben running around breaking tackles helps his time get higher, and yet he still isn’t near the top at all.
I’d rather have a guy take some sacks and make plays late in the play than have a guy who throws it away too early. Peyton does it about perfectly, and yet how many game winning/tying drives does he have? Ben is great for what he is, and he wins because of it, not in spite of it.
Good news, Palmer’s near the bottom of the list, he takes quick sacks, let’s see how our pass rush is doing then.
I'd like to see median time too.
My impression so far and throughout Ben’s career is that he has relatively few “normal” sacks. He gets hit quickly, or he runs around a bit and finally gets taken down.
And of course another wrinkle
If a quarterback gets flushed quickly and gets sacked a second or two out of the pocket, before he can safely ground it, it looks like he held onto the ball too long when really the protection broke down immediately.
Alternatively, if an all-out blitz comes and the QB, instead of hitting his hot read, goes through his normal progressions and gets nailed, that seems to a be protection problem, when really it’s the QB’s inability to read the defense.
As JJ Cooper, the writer, says in comments, you need more than one guy to chart every pass play, but without doing that, you can’t accurately gauge protection. The real statistic is how long it takes on average for a QB to be pressured.
Yeah, you would have to really look at each play and what the defense brought vs. what the offense blocked with and see how long containment was kept. It would be a lot of work, and another reason we need a grant so we can just watch football and run stats all day.
by Phantaskippy on Sep 23, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will be forever jealous of Nate Silver
Dude gets paid to do this stuff with baseball (and now politics).
Same goes for Aaron Schatz.
Culter very good against Steelers
But he’s not elite until he shows more consistency. Could happen because he has great talent.
Re-watched game last night. Steelers put tons of pressure on Cutler. The times he stood straight in the pocket with time and stepped into his throw, you could count on one hand.
On successful drives, Bears used draws, screens, quick outs. Cutler has quick, electric body he used to slip pressure, throw while moving backward, sideways. Maligned Bear receivers made some great catches in traffic. Knox may be a no namer right now, but he moves with great speed and decisiveness.
Defensive execution looked pretty good, they got beat a few times on the blitz because Bears got the ball out into unprotected places. Give the Bears a lot of credit, Cutler was nearly perfect. He missed maybe 2 or 3 throws.
If our offense had played as well as the Bears, we win easily. Not that our offense was horrible, but they left a lot of points off the scoreboard.
great comments
“If our offense had played as well as the Bears, we win easily” This is exactly what happened. We had five drives inside the Bears’ 40-yard line. Two TDs. The Bears had three drives inside the Pittsburgh 40. Two touchdowns and a game-winning FG. If they’d needed a TD on the last drive, they probably would have done it\ because they had figured out exactly what they needed to do and Cutler was executing with that in mind. Cutler took care of the ball and maximized the points. Ben did not.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 23, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Something I was thinking about
I honestly dont think we’ve been truly beat by a team since the Eagles last year. The other 4 losses have all been self inflicted. Turnovers in most cases, or Tipping the ball to Reggie Wayne, or Reed missing kicks.
I 100% feel this team decides if they win each week.
The titans beat us pretty bad, and calling that self-inflicted is delusional.
Willie Colon - top 2 RT in the NFL
I disagree
That game was 24-14 until ben threw that hailmary at the end. A ten point game is not that bad a beating.
And we committed how many stupid fumbles and turnovers? Yet our Offense was lighting up the board. We killed ourselves that game.
If you’re gonna bring up his days at Vandy, you should ask yourself would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady have been successful there? The talent gap between Vandy and a school like Alabama is big, so that argument can go both ways. There are very talented players at Vandy, but certainly not more than Florida or Alabama.
This might be a stupid question, but could Stallworth potentially increase the cash flow within the organization given that he is kinda loaded?
Willie is our runner
i don’t see Mendy replacing him this year.
I noticed a couple times in the Chicago game that Mendy led with his shoulder, but not in a good “im gonna bull you over” way but rather almost sideways, like hes scared somewhat. He’ll learn but at least Parker is going in full steam for the most part.
Where is Mr. Malor hiding when you need him?
Perhaps he is with Brendon Ayanbadejo ?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 23, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
You mean after one good run there's a controversy?
Mendenhall’s stat line: 3 rushes for 39 yards, longest run: 39 yards. Plus a nice swing pass for a first down (the soon-to-be legendary BFP)
On that 39 yard run, if Willie had been in the backfield, it would have been a touchdown. Mendenhall looked timid even in open space, much less in the backfield or hitting the hole. I’m not on board with him yet, and refuse to give him a cute nickname like Mendy until he proves he’s a solid back.
Agreed
I hate when another RB would get the lucky call and break one off. Cause you know FWP would have put it in for 6.
Although the devils advocate says that the other team is expecting less speed and perhaps playing farther back. Or maybe I’m overthinking….
Whatever.
Point is FWP is the better back right now but I would love nothing more than to see all 3 of our backs pushing eachother higher up
Is that sarcasm?
13 years and no playoff wins for the Dallas Cowboys... SWEET!
by idiscgolftexas on Sep 23, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If our track record with first rounders are anything
Put Mendy in now cause Fast Willie isn’t fast anymore
The RB rotation
One of my questions heading into the season was how Arians would use his running backs. Three RBs, all with some talent, all with some question marks. Without doubt the most useful back right now is Moore because he is a known commodity in the run game and the passing game. He provides a receiving threat and is an underrated runner. He is not durable, so he cannot be your starter. That’s a proven fact of his professional career. Neither is he explosive. He will get a few yards more than other running backs, on some runs or receptions, because he is a gamer and he is smart. His athletic ability is limited. Parker is almost a run-only player with declining physical ability. His track record shows that he needs carries, and that at some point with enough carries his speed will produce more yards on a given play than many other backs in the NFL. Mendenhall is an enigma with physical talent and few running back technical skills. He needs work to develop those skills and has shown he can make a big play once in a while. On any given play there is a reason to use any of the running backs or none of the running backs, but obviously you have to use one of them on a minimum of about 40 per cent of your plays.
This is not easy for Arians and it makes the RB situation somewhat of a challenge for the offense. It creates public controversy and perhaps internal discord with each running back, though I get the feeling that Moore is a pure professional who will do anything that’s asked and will be happy with that. What I would most like to see is Arians just going with his gut and not trying to label the running backs as a starter, a reliever and a third-down guy. Society is into labels. Labels make things easy because they allow people not to think very much. Football and sports in general is into labels. The sixth man in basketball. The set-up man in baseball. The third-down back in football. They’re mostly just an excuse for people who can’t make up their minds, are stupid or gutless. Screw labels. Start Moore, go to Mendenhall, come back with Moore, run Parker 10 times in the second half, go with the hot hand for an entire quarter on every down … do whatever is necessary to put guys in position to contribute with no concern for controversies, damaged egos or confusing labels. There is no single back on this team good enough to be on the field for more than 50 per cent of the offensive snaps. There are three backs who can contribute. Find a way to make it work but don’t take the easy way out, which is what Arians does by restricting Mendenhall to the third series of each half regardless of how he played, and not putting in Moore for an entire series because FWP is “our runner”.
I think I have debated this with you or someone else before but please show me the proof that Mewelde Moore is not durable?
He has played in all 16 games in 3 of his 5 seasons. He has played in 72 out of 82 games in his career.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I love MeMo and he has never suffered a major injury in his career. But early in his career in Minnesota when he had the opportunity to be the feature back he couldn’t stay healthy when he had a lot of carries. He suffered an ankle injury midway through his 2004 rookie season that kept him out most of the rest of the year. In preseason of 05 he had an ankle injury, later played with a wrist brace, injured both ankles in a 22-carry start vs. the Packers in mid-season and then was benched for Michael Bennett because various injuries (quad, hamstring, wrist, ankle) limited what he could do. He had off-season surgery before 06 on the wrist and the Vikings went out and acquired Chester Taylor because they needed a No. 1 back. He’s basically stayed healthy enough since then with a limited role. Last year he did a great job filling in for Parker but again injured his ankle or leg in the playoffs and was not 100 per cent for the Super Bowl. He was banged up again this preseason and missed games. Moore gives 100 per cent and is willing to take hits rather than go out of bounds, but he’s not fast enough to elude tackles and not big enough to take a regular pounding between the tackles.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That said, I would still have Moore starting games because I think we have to pass to set up the run. I just don’t believe MeMo will stay healthy if he is getting 15-20 touches a game on a regular basis and his history supports that.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
His history in Minny is irrelevant
Cause I think they eventually drafted Purple Jesus…
One may argue if MeMo went off they may not have. But they were playing Chester Taylor and that dude with the whizzinator.
That's not true
Moore was not out the rest of the season in his rookie year it was that Mike Tice decided not to play him. Moore missed 5 games in 2004 for that high ankle sprain and hasn’t missed a game due to injury since.
That Moore is injury prone is a complete myth. It’s simply not true. Parker and Mendenhall both missed more games in 08 than Moore has missed in his entire NFL careers and Mendenhall missed more games in 08 than Moore missed in his NFL and college careers combined.
You make mention of Moore missing practice time and preseason time? What NFL RB hasn’t?
Sorry, I’m aware of the well established perception that Moore is injury prone but it’s just not true and the facts would show just the opposite.
Additionally, your “not fast enough to ellude tackles” is also not true nor is his size a factor given that he is the same size as Willie Parker, Tiki Barber or plenty of other guys who took 20+ carries.
by JonathanJoseph on Sep 24, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re entitled to your opinion. The facts regarding Moore’s rookie and second pro season are a matter of record. Tice did not bench Moore until his second season because he was too banged up to be the No. 1 back, with a wide variety of nagging injuries. One of those injuries (wrist) required off-season injury in 2006. The Vikings went out and acquired Taylor because in their opinion they needed a workhorse No. 1 back. Memo is elusive because he knows how to read blocks and can stop on a dime and gets the maximum out of every carry. He’s his own worst enemy in a way because he won’t go out of bounds and will twist and pull and stretch to get every extra inch he can. I love him. He is smart, tough, good hands. He is not fast but it doesn’t really matter with the game he plays. You’re deluding yourself if you think he can be a workhorse No. 1 back carrying the ball 250 times a year without getting too banged up to be effective, nor do we need him to do that for the Steelers.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Opinion and fact are two different things
Don’t tell me I’m entitled to my opinion when I’m stating fact. Moore was both healthy and active for the last 4 games of the 04 season and the 2 games the in the postseason and Tice gave Moore 2 carries over that 6 game span. He was a healthy scratch. Period. That’s the documented fact and you are free to check.
The Vikings, read Brad Childress, went out and got Chester Taylor to be “his guy”, and doesn’t explain why when Taylor was hurt that Childress turned to both Ciatrick Fason and Artose Pinner rather than Moore because he wasn’t one of “his guys”. Moore’s time under Childress was a waste and not indicative of anything. He was dismissed much the way that Willie Parker was dismissed at UNC. In retrospect, both were wrong decisions.
As for not being effective with 250 carries….you are guessing. You don’t know and neither does anyone else on earth until someone tries. I’m 1000% certain that everyone was 1000% sure that Warick Dunn and Tiki Barber wouldn’t hold up either but they turned out to be quite durable. The number of RBs in the NFL today who can stand up to 250 carries and stay healthy/effective is probably less than 10.
The point here is that Moore is easily the most effective back for the Steelers. Willie Parker is hurting the team and Mendenhall is maybe or maybe not any better. How many games are the Steelers going to lose scoring 13.5 ppg because they have no running game before they at least TRY giving Moore 10-15 touches and go no huddle.
by JonathanJoseph on Sep 25, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
lol, do you are argue this much with people who DON’T like Mewelde Moore? I think he’s great and, as I said in my earlier posts, I think he should be starting because in this offense the pass is used to set up the run.
Here’s what we know about Mewelde’s “durability”. In his rookie year he had four straight starts from Week 5 through Week 8. In the first three of those games he was the workhorse RB, he got 20, 15 and 20 carries , and also caught a total of 24 passes. That’s 79 touches. In the fourth game of that stretch he sprained his ankle. He was then out five weeks, which as I said was the majority of the rest of the regular season. He had one carry in the last four games he was active, and one carry in the playoffs. He did not catch a pass. Maybe he was completely healthy, maybe not. His 2005 season he had a number of great games and got lots of playing time through 12 weeks. He had minor injuries as I listed above and played through them. After week 12, when he had 21 carries for 67 tough yards, his injury list to that point included two ankle sprains and a sprained wrist llgament. Head coach Mike Tice then switched to Bennett because in his words Moore was “banged up”. Now, if you want to argue Tice was an idiot, I wouldn’t disagree, but Moore was definitely hurting, if only because we know that after the season that sprained wrist was diagnosed as torn and required surgery. In the last five games Moore had a total of 20 carries. That’s two years where Moore won the starting job and couldn’t keep it because he was worn down or injured. It’s not my opinion. That’s the way it worked out. Following that year the Vikings were in the market for a new No. 1 back to be the workhorse and signed Taylor. With his carries reduced in 06 (a total of 24 rushes), he stayed remarkably healthy and proved himself to be one of the best third-down backs in the league. The next year with Peterson around, Moore was phased out of the offense almost completely and was inactive part of the year (four games). Last summer, I was among the first guys on this blog to advocate getting Moore and lo and behold that’s just what the Steelers did. I think he’s great. The most carries he’s had in a season is 155, and that season he was too “banged up” to continue as the starter after 12 games. So yes, you’re entitled to your opinion that Moore can be the workhorse No. 1 back for a full season but IMO I would like him to be healthy for the entire year as a complementary back who can catch a lot of balls and score touchdowns and all kinds of good things for the Steelers. He can be a very productive guy in a number of different roles, including starting once in a while or during a stretch where other guys are injured, as was the case last year. Why don’t we just agree that there are lots of reasons for Moore to get more action? He’s a great fit for this team, but there are two other running backs that can also contribute and by using all three, maybe it can help all of them be healthy when it counts in playoffs. Cheers.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 25, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Once again, opinion and fact are two different things
As has been noted, Moore was healthy for most of the stretch in 2004. Then you note that Moore only got 20 carries (and 13 receptions) over the final 5 games because of a sprained wrist…but fail to realize that 1 of the games where Tice claimed that Moore was injured (vs NYG) that Moore got 0 carries but had the game winning TD on a punt return. Then you fail to mention that when you add Moore’s 13 receptions for 102 yards (3 for 25 per game) s STILL more than the Steelers are using him now.
At what point are people going to stop talking about why he can’t be something and start paying attention to what happens when he does play?
At no point have I suggested that Moore would hold up as a full-time feature back over 16 games (despite a career of durability). But starting the Steelers offense with 15 touches for Moore and letting Parker and Mendenhall split the rest is the obvious solution to a running game that isn’t working otherwise.
by JonathanJoseph on Sep 25, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Full circle to agreement. Yay! I would love to see Moore getting 10-15 touches a game, which is not that much more than he is getting now, and being out on the field for the first series or two and t hen go from there. Tomlin was in Minnesota the year Moore had a great year as the third-down back and I’m sure he has much better insight than either of us on how much work Mewelde can handle as a complementary piece of the running back puzzle, which actually looked a lot better in Game 2 than in Game 1. Let’s see how it unfolds.Good debate.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 25, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You want Arians to go with his gut? I just don’t think the 11 TE offense is a viable option…
charity standing orders
A five-TE offense on the other hand
is entirely legal. It’s just that the fools in the FO won’t build a suitable roster.
Alas, it’s simply not possible for Arians to dress 11 TE, his ultimate fantasy. But, he’s got the closest thing in the NFL to a tight end at QB and I’ll bet he loves the ultimate college TE quarterback, Tim Tebow.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying
that we’ll be drafting Tebow in the 3rd round next year? ;)
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 24, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think Tebow makes it past the Jaguars in the first round.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 24, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Tebow will be a first-rounder. He’s improved as a passer and has unquestionable character and leadership abilities on top of his athleticism.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
First rounder
I could see that if he’s a TE, but if he comes out as a QB? You really think so? I guess it’s possible, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he slips a couple rounds. He’s never run anything close to a pro style offense. True, he’s carried his team, but so did Vince Young, and I think the Titans would like to go back and redo that one.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 25, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I was saying the Jaguars can’t put people in the seats because it is Florida Gator country out there…..if they get the most famous Florida Gator in the land that will surely help put some butts in the seats.
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 25, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
As they say, it only takes one team, and the Jags have already publicly speculated on drafting him.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Sep 25, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
Jags wont get him cause they’ll have won enough games to be below Tampa Bay
Tampa Bay just used a first-round pick on a project QB.
by steeler.lifer on Sep 24, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hitler is a Ravens Fan and he’s angry at the Steelers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50hi-mv7U6k
LOL
Brilliant. That was simply brilliant. Some of the other ones are funny too.
by Phantaskippy on Sep 23, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Really funny
I had to turn of the volume because I’m fluent in German and its really wierd hearing hitler say one thing and reading a different meaning out of it. By the way that was an awesome movie saw it over here.
Pain is temporary pride is forever
by Heartofsteel on Sep 24, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Thst one was good
"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature.
The two children of these spawned and fused in a tantric love session to create Troy Polamalu. The mother however died as he tore through the birth canal with a spin move."
Mechem on the roots of Troy Polamalu
by WVPiratesfan on Sep 24, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why aren't people mentioning Kordell "Slash" Stewart as the original wildcat player
Kordell was the ultimate versatile offensive player, if people are looking for the origins of the wildcat, they should remember the Slash, he was the wildcat player before there was a wildcat fad. Slash did everything, he lined up at quarterback, effectively passing and running from his qb position, he also lined up at running back where he ran and passed, and he also lined up at wide receiver where he did pretty well. What separates him from others was that he did each one effectively, passing touchdowns, running touchdowns, catching touchdowns, and even punted the ball once in a while
"Why aren't people mentioning Kordell "Slash" Stewart as the original wildcat player"
The Wildcat before the Wildcat was Kordell “Slash” Stewart
I think I did?
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 25, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You're the only one
But how come none of the media, like the NFL network, ESPN, and the major broadcast channels have ever mentioned Kordell as the original and ultimate wildcat weapon
I have heard the folks on ESPN refer to Kordell that way a few times…..
I'll drink your Milkshake, I'll drink it up!
by Frank Mineo (DYMS) on Sep 25, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
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