The Steelers Other Maginot Line
by maryrose on Jan 24, 2010 3:09 PM EST
Email
PrintThanks to Swissvale for posting an outstanding Maginot Line reference about the defense in 2009. He was spot on. The Steelers have another Maginot Line going on these days, literally a line. The defensive backfield is similar to the offensive line.
I have seen too many times now the notion that "the offensive problems were schematic and the defensive problems were personnel." While such is a handy license for those who wish to bash the offense and exonerate the defense, this perfect little alibi is a gross miscalculation. There are no personnel problems with the skill people on offense, but major personnel problems with the offensive line. To lump the two together is erroneous.
Over the last seven NFL Drafts, every single aspect of the football team, except for the offensive line, has been gifted with at least one first-round draft choice. The quarterback position (Big Ben) was given #11 overall (2004), the running back position (Mendy) was given #25 (2008), the wide receiver was given a middle first in 2006 (Tone) and middle second in 2008 (Limas). Even the tight end (Heath) was granted a first rounder (2005). On defense, the line was bolstered at the last draft with a number one (Ziggy), a guy who helped significantly to minimize the loss of Aaron Smith. The linebackers were given both one and two in 2007 (Timmons and Woodley) and given a two in 2003 (Alonzo Jackson). The defensive backfield was graced with a high number one (Troy in 2003), moving up in the draft to get him, plus two number two picks (Colclough in 2004 and McFadden in 2005). Granted, not all of them panned out, but at least we tried.
While every phase was being bolstered by first-round franchise cornerstones, plus an extra smattering of number two picks for good measure, the offensive line has been given neither a one nor a two. I am one who believes the offensive line is the most important part of a football team, right up there with the quarterback, and yet it has been given the least since 2002. From 1998 to 2002, the Steelers drafted three offensive linemen in the one and two spots (Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith and Kendall Simmons). When all three were in their final year with Pittsburgh, Bruce Arians ran the ball more than any team in the NFL except two. People conveniently forget that the Steelers, under Pass Happy Arians, were a running football team in 2007, third in the league in rushing attempts.
Since 2007, actually during 2007, the wheels began falling off the offensive line, one by one. The best of the bunch, Alan Faneca, took off for New York and joined three other first-round linemen. Now let's see, that's four first-round offensive linemen for the Jets and how far did they go this year with a rookie quarterback? Kendall and Marvel both suffered career-ending injuries. Max Starks, in bizarre fashion, went from starting right tackle, to getting benched, to getting franchised, to starting left tackle. Say what? Sean Mahan was brought in to succeed Jeff Hartings, and succeed he did not. That little experiment was dispatched for Justin Hartwig, whose current mediocrity improves the Mahan situation, but clearly ended the Steelers great lineage of superior NFL centers.
Meanwhile, our right tackle is a guy who everyone in the Nation, from Jim Wexell to my own little Maryrose, insists is a right guard. Another guy out of position, Darnell Stapleton, a center who was called upon to play guard since no one else can do it, suffered a season-ending injury before the season began. His replacement was a career back-up (Trai Essex), meaning that we are now relying on back-ups to back-ups. And let's not forget that Chris Kemo went down, paving the way for an undrafted free agent to fill in that spot. So while everyone is blaming the 2009 Defensive Stock Market Crash on the loss of Troy, the entire offensive line is going to hell in a handbasket. Those injuries don't count? On offense it's all schematic (Arians) problems?
In truth, the 2009 Steelers' defensive backfield was on par with the 2009 Steelers' offensive line, awful. Losing Troy was like the line losing Faneca. Trying to patch William Gay and Tyrone Carter and trying to keep Deshea young was painfully similar to the musical chairs and patchwork that the offensive line has been going through since 2006. Making matters worse for the offensive line, they haven't had a decent coach since Russ Grimm. Not only has the offensive line had major personnel problems, the guy leading them was a personnel problem himself.
The result is that the defensive backfield and offensive line cost the Steelers the 2009 season and is costing the Steelers a chance at dynasty. The good news is that hopefully both of those entities have hit rock bottom and have already begun their ascent. Troy will be coming back and Keenan Lewis and Joe Burnett will be (hopefully) in that year-two surge. One of those two young guys, or a 2010 draft pick, has got to step up and avoid the calamity of 2009. On offense, the new line coach can assess what we have and beg for an injection of new talent. Maybe we'll throw the new guy a bone and give him, finally ending the seven-year drought, a first-round and/or second-round lineman.
Teams Since 2003 Drafting O-Line in First and Second Rounds:
Five Players: 1 Team (SF)
Four Players: 2 Teams, including AFC North Baltimore who understands the importance of running in the Division
Three Players: 6 teams, including Cincy and Cleve, ditto like Baltimore
Two Players: 13 teams
One Player: 8 teams
Zero Players: 2 teams, Pittsburgh and Washington (great company)
Keep in mind, the above numbers do not include great players taken before 2003 who stayed healthy and on the team. Guys like Matt Light, Jeff Saturday, and many others add to the quality of their lines in addition to high draft choices since 2003. The Steelers high choices in that grouping, Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith and Kendall Simmons, have all left the team due to free agency or career-injuries. The above numbers would look even worse if you added all those guys. That creates more urgency for the Steelers to re-commit to drafting high-choice linemen.
If Art Rooney II is sincere about running the football, and I believe he is, he needs to put his money where his mouth is. We've already seen evidence by dispatching Larry Zierlein and bringing in Sean Kugler. Now let's see more evidence on April 22. There will be no excuse this year that "all the good ones are gone and we don't want to reach." That won't hold water this year. The Steelers pick 18th and there are at least seven offensive lineman who are worthy of that spot. Every aspect of the team, except one, has been given love since 2003. Let's end that lone exception, and leave Washington behind as the only remaining team not to draft a first or second round offensive lineman since 2003.
67 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Maybe..
Do you think that Buluga, Lupati and Pouncey are worth the 18th pick overall? In the 70s, we had 0 first round picks on the line…Titans, none either..we did draft O-Lineman recently, Hills, Urbik and foster, who was undrafted, but pretty good!
Bulaga is absolutely worth the 18th pick. If he’s still there at the 18th i’ll be really surprised.
by BluegrassSteeler on Jan 24, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love Bulaga at 18, we need a tackle. I don’t think we need a guard as much. I’d also love Earl Thomas at that spot (safety). I would not be surprised to see no early O-Line picks. I’d rather fix the defense first myself, we need DT, LB depth and both a safety and corner. Elite defense trumps a great O-line for team needs. The Jets are winning with defense and a great line. Hey we won a Super Bowl with that. We also won a Super Bowl with an elite defense and a crap line.
I’d say that defense was the big connection between the two. Let’s get that fixed up and grab a good lineman if one we like is there. O-line reaches are a bad idea, and you need to really do your homework on the guys work ethic. I hope we find a great tackle this year, but if not I’d rather have a safety or NT.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 24, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think we should trade down and grab Iupati
Im almost sure that Colon will get resigned and will stay at tackle (Then again with a new line coach they might try him at guard). If we draft Iupati he starts from day one. That means we got Kemo, Iupati and Colon who are all good run blockers. If we can add a solid center to replace Hartwig at some point in the near future we can have one of the better run blocking lines in the league for a long time to come since all those guys are young
by TrueSteelerForLife on Jan 24, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
TOTALLY AGREE with that
Some say Lupati may shoot up and be worth the #18. I saw one mock already showing us taking him.
by SteelerMessican on Jan 25, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
I agree w/maryrose and phskippy, but also is a lack of creativity from OC. We all had seen the
ratbirds put ngata to block or the saints add another G as TE, can We put Ziggy or Hampton or better both to block, as wing and T and put Redman also to block at least you are going to get all t defense attention or better run through them almost in a wheelchair, so thats another reason to bring here in the 1º round NT Terrence Cody. B/c, I think, only Joe Haden could be a reason to trade up. The problem here is Cody worth that 1º pick?.
O sales tickets,...and let D rest a little, and D Win Championships.
by YeOldeMexFan on Jan 25, 2010 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
I liked what I saw of Bulaga in his bowl game. Any idea where he is projected to go in the draft? I am assuming his thyroid issues may cause him to drop a few places.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 24, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
He was great in the that bowl game
He’s projected anywhere in the middle of the first. He’s the second to fourth best OT this year depending on who you read.
Um
The colts havent drafted a first round lineman since 1997, the patroits haven’t drafted a first round lineman since 1999.
Brady and manning are consistently the fewest sacked qbs in the NFL. Why? Not because they have 1st round talent on the o-line but because the QB are quick with getting the ball out and make good decision. Does it help in the running game? The San Diego Chargers hadn’t picked an offensive linemen in the first round since 1986, and we all know success they had in the running game in the Mid-2000s with LT. The jets of course have 3 1st round offensive linemen. But I think history has shown that you can win without getting 1st round talent on the line, while its good to have, I believe we can be an effective running team without them.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
1) The Colts always run the ball poorly, which is mostly the result of a smallish finesse line that’s designed almost exclusively to protect Manning. And they manage to protect Manning so well not because they’re ultra-talented, but because he RARELY holds on to the ball for more than 3 seconds in the pocket. He knows where he’s going before the snap. But if you have a QB that holds on to the ball and an owner that wants to pound the rock, ya better invest heavily in the boys up front.
2) The Patriots picked Logan Mankins in the 1st round in 2005 and their current RT Vollmer in the 2nd last year. Their LT Matt Light was a 2nd rounder in 2001.
The Steelers haven’t spent so much as a 2nd round pick on the OL since taking Kendall Simmons in 2002. It is in need of an infusion of young, athletic talent.
by BluegrassSteeler on Jan 24, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I missed that
Well like I said whatever helps us win. I trust what they do in the draft. But you kinda answered what I was saying. Its more on the QB, we have a QB who no matter what line is in front of him will have a high amount of sacks just because of his style of play. Even if we had 1st round talent on the mind, does it matter if the Qb is taking 5-10 seconds to throw the ball?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right about Ben – it doesn’t matter what kind of protection he gets, he’s gonna get sacked more than he ought to. I really don’t believe there’s any breaking him of it at this point, he’s not a kid anymore.
I guess my concern is more in terms of the run game. If the ground game is effective then he won’t have to throw it so much and, perhaps better, he won’t be caught in so many 3rd and longs, which is where he typically decides to be a gunslinger.
by BluegrassSteeler on Jan 24, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
well
I dunno, we have yet to see him behind a dominating line. It would be nice to see though.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
you're right...but i think you're missing the point (and are a lil misleading too)
maryrose says he wants solid talent at the position that’s often credited as “being the most important on offense.” not necessarily 1st round, but at least 2nd round talent. yes, you can sometimes find steals later in the draft (far and few between), but there are reasons why those players fell that low and reasons why players are drafted so high.
and (just looking in the past 5 years & only first 2 rds):
pats: 2nd & 4th in ’09, 1st & 3rd in ’05
colts: 2nd in ’08, 2nd in ’07, 4th in ’05
chargers: 2nd in ’06, 3rd & 4th in ’09
steelers: 3rd ’09, 4th ’08, 4th ’06, 3rd ’05
now, you often don’t have to invest picks/sign new ppl if your players stay for a long time or are not injury prone…but not only are the steelers avg or behind those teams in draft picks, they’ve also had THE MOST LINE CHANGES out of all the teams (aka diff starters at that spot from year to year)
over the 5 years starting player changes:
Pats- 2@LT, 2@ RT
SD- 2@RG, 2@LT, 3@RT
Colts- 3@RG, 3@LG, 3@LT
Steelers- 2@LT, 2@LG, 3@C, 3@RG, 2@RT
right
I mean there is nothing wrong taking linemen in the first round. I personally believe that we need to focus on defense on this draft and thats all. Thats just my opinion. If they go line i have no problem with that either. What ever helps us win super bowls
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
The Patriots indeed drafted a first-round offensive lineman in 2005, Logan Mankins. They followed that up in the same draft by taking Nick Kazcur in the third round, showing their commitment to the position. Moreover, they drafted Matt Light very early in 2002, and because he never left or got hurt, drafting more than Mankins and Kazcur was just not as urgent as the Steelers situation, who lost their prze (Faneca) and saw others get knocked out of the game (MSmith, KSimmons).
The Colts also took two lineman in the second rounds, back-to-back, in 2007 and 2008. Like New England, they also were able to hang onto their earlier prize, Jeff Saturday, and thus their urgency is not equal to the Steelers these days. Not only have the Steelers NOT matched the Patriots and Colts with first and second rounders in recent years, the players they did draft early, in the early 2000s (and Faneca), are all gone. The time is now.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Yea
I flubbed that up :)
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I still believe they should go defense
but thats just me, we’ll see what the steelers do.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
you brought up some good points
it’s very likely true that arians avoids running the bal on third and short cuz he didnt have the confidence in our line to pick it up. of course, there is always use the chicken or egg argument about the situation: our line was always bad at 3rd & short OR it became bad because we threw so much cuz we were that good at throwing (always retreating, etc.). personally i think it’s a lil of both.
I can predict who the Steelers will pick
They will grab whoever they think is the best talent available. That’s it.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
vey astute
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on Jan 24, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
You must be reading
Kevin Colbert’s mind…
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 24, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Totally disagree
The Steelers are not going to take a quartetrback in the first or second rounds, despite whether the guy is the best available player. The Steelers are not going to take a tight end. The Steelers better not take a wide receiver. It is more important to “follow your draft board” than to simply draft the best player available. Sometimes the best player available SHOULD NOT be on your draft board. You must take into account team need combined with talent available to form your draft board. With that in mind, I truly hope the Steelers have about seven guys from the offensive line on their draft board when it comes time to pick #18.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Okay fine.
I’ll agree with a combination of both need and best player available to fill that need.
That said, we agree on another thing: I think they should draft O-line in the 1st. Bulaga or Lupati. The best safeties in the draft will be gone by #18, and we can still get an above average one in the 2nd.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by Steel Spike on Jan 25, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Well, other than the QB,
Kevin Colbert disagreed with you. In his interview with Bob Labriola he said that they would take the best talent available at their draft position, with the exception of QB. He may have been holding some cards to his chest, but that’s what he said. Now that doesn’t mean that they don’t trade up (or down) a bit if the best player at their draft position is, say, a tight end (although someone speculated that BA was drawing up a new formation with 5 TEs), but Colbert stated outright that the Steelers don’t draft for need, they take the best talent.
"You learn more in failure than you do in success." - Mike Tomlin
by Rebecca Rollett on Jan 25, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you!
I have no idea how often I’ve said
Steelers don’t draft for need, they take the best talent.
This^ over the last month or so…Buuut…There is glaring need at certain positions, and as it happens, there is some really good talent in this draft where we could do both. Draft for need, AND the best talent available.
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by Steel Spike on Jan 25, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Is it possible that the annual “We will draft best available talent” line given by Colbert is a standard way of keeping people off their backs? If I were a GM, I would say that every year as a matter of course. There really are no questions after that line. Conversely, if you come out and say “We will draft according to need,” that will do nothing more than incite the media and the Nation to beg the question, “so where is the need?” In addition, why would Colbert tip his hand to other teams, who would then assess Pittsburgh’s needs and get a jump on the draft???
Colbert will tell Bob Labriola that same line every year for the next 20 years. It’s sitting in the can. It’s the safest and most nebulous way of keeping people off guard and at arm’s length. It’s the best way to avoid further questions, which those people do not want to start answering.
This is just my guess, but I would bet that when they put their draft board together, they equally combine need with avaliable talent and develop a draft board. At that point they stick to the draft board for a round or two. Then, all bets are off depending on what positions they filled.
It’s no coincidence that the player the Steelers NEEDED most, Troy Polamalu, just happened to fall in 2003 to where the Steelers traded up. It was no coincidence that when we drafted Ben the next year we just happened to need a quarterback. In 2005, we just happened to need a tight end the most when, just our luck, the best player sitting there was was Heath Miller. We lose Randle El in 2006 and lo and behold, we trade up again to get Santonio. Etc., etc.
Make no mistake, the best player available is not that simple. It is very important, in fact critical, but it is weighed against need. And if all you are going to say is the basic BPA line, then you are buying the Kool Aid the Steelers want you to buy.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
Watching the Jets game just now you could see how superior they are to the Steelers on the corner.
I know Manning wound up picking them apart, but their play at CB is excellent. If they had a pass rush from their D-line they’d be a spectacular defense. It underscored for me how weak the Steelers are there. MR is right — if we don’t get significantly better personnel in the secondary, the schemes won’t matter much.
Golf is a contact sport. Football is a collision sport.
by cliff harris is still a punk! on Jan 24, 2010 6:30 PM EST reply actions
Agreed that the Steelers could use a top pick on the offensive line.
But I haven’t seem anyone posting on BTSC who thinks our current OL is just fine and doesn’t need improvement. And the fact that our OL isn’t one of the better units in the league is no excuse for Arians. The job of a good OC (or DC for that matter) is to compensate for weaknesses and optimize strengths. Also, if we expect the Steelers to model themselves after the Jets’ personnel moves, then we had better get ready for a couple decades of not winning anything in Pittsburgh. The Jets are so smart that they ran the ball today in third-and-long against the Colts. What did they think—that their defense would stop Manning and then they could just grind it out?? The Jets are a model for nobody. Next year, they probably won’t even make the playoffs.
That last comment is probably true – the Jets will probably win 8 or 9 games next year.
I actually like the fins to come back strong next year and contend for a wild card spot. That team is so well coached. Sparano really manages to get the most out of his limited talent.
by BluegrassSteeler on Jan 24, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree about the Jets
You can’t write them off for the future because they went conservative on a third and long with a rookie QB in a hostile building. They weren’t perfect today but they’re set up pretty well. They have a great O-line, a young QB who’s going to get better, a good young RB in Greene, some good receivers, an excellent defense and a solid coaching staff. They need to add a pass rusher, but with free agency coming and their willingness to spend money (especially in an uncapped year) I wouldn’t be surprised to see them make a run at a guy like Dumervil. Nothing (other than their history) says to me that the Jets won’t be good next year.
Golf is a contact sport. Football is a collision sport.
by cliff harris is still a punk! on Jan 24, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose I’m just a bit iffy on Sanchez. At the beginning of the season he looked pretty good, later on he looked like Joey Harrington, and today he looked pretty okay – not great, but certainly not bad. I have no idea what to expect out of him next year. And I’m mostly of the belief that team can only go as far as their QB can take them….Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson being notable exceptions.
by BluegrassSteeler on Jan 24, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think we will learn to hate the Jets
I thought the Jets lost because of their in-game injuries today. With all their corner healthy and Greene still pounding the rock I think they would have won or at least taken it down to the wire.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 24, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Jets proved what we learned from the Cowher years
You can beat many teams with great defense and running, but your margin for error is slim, and it’s hard to overcome those errors in high pressure situations. The Jets didn’t make any major mistakes today, that I recall. They just had to be perfect to beat Manning and the Colts. They weren’t perfect, they were merely pretty darn good.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 24, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
the other lesson was learned by the Saints, you hit great QB’s, hit them early and often, legally or not.
Those hits on Favre were legal, others questionable, and at least one should have been penalized, but the Saints were going to keep coming. The Jets hit Peyton, but not enough. I hope the Saints can get shots on Manning like they did on Favre.
Remember when the Pats beat Warner, and when NY beat Brady, the great ones were getting crushed and bloodied. Like Coach T says, the most violent team wins.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 25, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
I'm writing them off.
You don’t draft a QB #1 and then let him sit on the sidelines on third downs. Punch their ticket to Loserville.
I wouldn't say that our OL is just fine and doesn't need improvement
But, I will say that they are not awful, as MR has stated in this post. Going back to 2001, here are the Steelers’ sack percentages, rush yards per attempt, and rushing yardage totals per year.
Year Sack% Rush Y/A Rush Yards
2009 8.5% 4.2 1793
2008 8.8% 3.7 1690
2007 9.6% 4.2 2168
2006 8.6% 4.2 1992
2005 7.8% 4.0 2223
2004 9.1% 4.0 2464
2003 7.3% 3.3 1488
2002 5.8% 4.1 2120
2001 6.4% 4.8 2774
What this shows me is that, for the most part, the Steelers have been a run-first team, until last year. They have not generally drafted OL that are excellent pass protectors, but are good run blockers. With the exception of last season, when we faced one of the toughest slates of opposing defenses in recent memory, and 2003, when the team just sucked all around, the rushing average has been solid. In 2009, it was a quite healthy 4.2 Y/A. So, my point is, to say that Arians’ excuse for this year is that the OL sucked just doesn’t agree with the numbers. The special teams sucked horribly for about 6 weeks. The 4th quarter defense sucked, but LeBeau has a great track record. The 4th quarter offense was very inconsistent, great in some games, but non-existent in others.
Anyway, this is kind of rambling, but I’ll just end with this. I’m honestly not that worried about the Steelers in 2010. This season, they just seemed to find ways to lose. Each unit contributed in their own way with untimely miscues. I thought it was time to replace Arians, but I’m not furious that he wasn’t fired. I expect that the defense will return to form next year, and the offense should just cut down on some of the bad turnovers (those returned for TDs), and we should be fine.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 24, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
If by last year you mean 2008-2009 I think you are letting stats tell too much. We tried hard to be run first, it just didn’t work. we got away from it as the game progressed because we couldn’t gain yards. This year was a little bit of that again, but more a resignation that the passing game was our best weapon and less focus on being a run-first team.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 25, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I meant 2008-2009. What I meant was that based on these stats, the type of OL targeted was a better run blocker than pass protector. Yes, in 2008, we tried to run but had little success. I think a lot of that had to do with the extremely tough slate of defenses that we faced, in addition to the loss of players, lack of continuity, etc. It seems that the OL did a much better job of run blocking this year, but actually ran less.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 25, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Who would you rather have?
2003, 1st round : Troy Polamalu or George Foster, Kwame Harris, Eric Steinbach, Jonathan Stinchcomb, Al Johnson, Bruce Nelson. Then the Steelers drafted Alonzo Jackson, but no other O-line players were drafted for the remainder of the 2nd round.
2004, 1st round : Big Ben or Shawn Andrews, Vernon Carey, Chris Snee,
then the Steelers drafted Ricardo Colclough instead of Jake Grove, Justin Smiley, Jacob Rogers.
2005, 1st round : Heath Miller or Logan Mankins, David Baas, Michael Roos, Marcus Johnson, Khalif Barnes. Then the Steelers drafted B-Mac, but no other O-lineman was drafted for the remainder of the 2nd round.
2006, 1st round : Santonio Holmes or Nick Mangold, Winston Justice, Deuce Lutui, Daryn Colledge, Marcus McNeil, Ryan Cook, Andrew Whitworth, Chris Chester, Jeremy Trueblood, Remember the Steelers didn’t have a 2nd round pick this year.
2007, 1st round : Lawrence Timmons or Joe Staley, Ben Grubbs, Arron Sears, Justin Blalock, Tony Ugoh. Then the Steelers drafted Woodley instead of Ryan Kalil, Samson Satele.
2008, 1st round : Rashard Mendenhall or Duane Brown, Chilo Rachal. Then the Steelers drafted Sweed, but no other O-lineman was drafted in the remainder of the 2nd round.
2009, 1st round : Ziggy Hood or Eben Britton, Max Unger, Andy Livitre, Phil Loadholt, Sebastian Vollmer, William Beatty.
What about Mike Wallace?
We trade up we probably lose our third instead of gaining two like we did. We don’t get Urbik Wallace or K. Lewis.
So with your trade we’d be swapping Wallace, Lewis and Urbik for Vollmer. I be questionable at least about making that trade, and that’s without expectations for Urbik or Lewis to improve.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 25, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry sould have been a ? there...
"OOH! A piece of candy. OOH! A piece of candy."
-James Woods
by Steel Spike on Jan 25, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Well, first, I certainly have no complaints about most of Pittsburgh’s selections in the first and second rounds since 2003. Especially first rounders, Kevin Colbert and company have actually been legendary in the recent dozen years. My intent was more with the here-and-now. We’re really due to dial up a really good one or two O-lineman at this point, or perhaps an O-line guy and then a corner to take care of both “Maginot Lines.”
That said, I caartainly would have preferred Vince Manuwai to Alonzo Jackson in 2003; I would much prefer Justin Smiley or Nick Hardwick to Ricardo Colclough in 2004; I’ll never forget Bryant McFadden’s great stop of Reggie Wayne in 2005, but Nick Kazcur would look really good in black and gold these days; The jury is still out on whether Lawrence Timmons or Ben Grubbs will pan out better from 2007; and I’d definitely take my chances with Anthony Collins or O’Neill Cousins right now over Limas Sweed in 2009.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see us go OL this year, with where we’re picking, and especially since Colon may be gone. I think it’s like SteelFever said above. They will take the best talent at the position to try to upgrade the overall talent level of the team.
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 24, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good draft for the three positions I would like to see a high draft pick in.
NT, CB/FS, OT. Chances are incredibly high a good one will fall to us at one of those positions. Hopefully we can address two through the draft and still build young depth elsewhere.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 25, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds good to me!
For ideas on statistical analyses, email me at wolfpacksteelersfan@gmail.com.
by WolfpackSteelersFan on Jan 25, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hindsight says
that Jake Grove would’ve been a sweet pick over Colclough, but Colclough looked so good back then on draft day. I remember a lot of speculation that we’d take Grove, and I thought we should, but apparently the FO never even considered it.
A shame. In hindsight, of course
Looks good to me
The Steelers have drafted so well at other positions, I don’t know how you can question their drafting on the O-Line. It’s great to talk about all the O-linemen we passed on, but that doesn’t consider the opportunity cost: the players we did draft.
The fact that Alonzo Jackson and Ricardo Colclough are the only draft picks that we can point to and say with some certainty that “drafting a lineman would have been better” shows how good the drafting has been. No team has won more Super Bowls than the Steelers since the 2003 draft, so I think the strategy worked pretty well.
And this is in HINDSIGHT. The fact that you can pick one available player (at that point in the draft) you would rather have than the man you drafted is pretty darn good.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Jan 25, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I like the idea of putting at least 1 1-3 choice into the oline and another into the defensive backfield (especially at FS).
I am surprised there isn’t more support for another powerback. I like the idea of alternating powerbacks every few plays to keep them fresh with a change of pace back for long yardage/passing situations.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 24, 2010 10:46 PM EST reply actions
Yes to the powerback, especially since Willie might be gone, but I think it is a matter of listing priorities. I’d like an inside backer also, one who would be what we thought Bruce Davis would be, but I think our greatest needs are to help our two Maginot Lines, the offensive line and defensive backfield.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
What about the sure fire HoF'er?
Redman is waiting, the world has been put on notice.
Also Justin Vincent and Carey Davis are out there.
by Phantaskippy on Jan 25, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking o-line in the first and corner in the second
Everybody knows how bad our secondary was this season, so it might convince everybody outside of the Steeler’s organization that we’ll be looking for help there in the first. No better time to draft offense when everybody thinks you’ll draft heavy on defense.
I’m thinking maybe Anthony Davis or Iupati in the first to shore up the line. And in the second we go for a DB.
by StoneColdSteel on Jan 24, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I am with you on this
I agree but if a great CB falls to us then we could probably get OT Selvish Caper in the 2nd round and take the CB in the 1st.
by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Jan 25, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Point
I don’t think it’s much use debating on whether a team can have success running the ball with or without 1st and 2nd round draft pics. The answer is YES, they CAN, but I feel the consensus agree that it might be easier to have a dominate, physical run-blocking line again by addressing those needs in the first two rounds. That being said, we can’t afford to have any busts early, because our track record beyond rounds 1 and 2 are kinda sketchy. Burress and Marvel Smith were the first two picks in 2000, but then, Kendrick Clancy and Hank Poteat busted. However, we did get Haggans in the 5th. Hampton was an absolute stud in 2001, but Rodney Bailey…not so much. Kendrell Bell could have been a beast, but injuries left him a shell of himself. 2002 was a great draft, one of the best, hands-down. Drafting Keisel in the 7th round? Wow! In 2003, we had a good draft of Polamalu and Ike, but missed on every other player. In 2004, we got Ben and Starks, but whiffed on Colclough and the other 5 players we drafted! The 2005 draft was a little better, we got Heath, McFadden, Essex, and Kemoeautu. In 2006, we got Santonio Holmes and Willie Colon, but missed on Anthony Smith and 6 other players! In 2007, we drafted Timmons, Woodley, Spaeth, Sepulvada, and Gay (in the 5th). We all had high hopes for Ryan McBean, but he didn’t pan out (for us…you’re welcome, Denver). The jury is still very much out on the 2008 draft class. I would say it’s now or never for Limas Sweed, Tony Hills, and Ryan Mundy. These guys could all be gone by training camp 2010. Mendenhall will prove to be a great back, pending he stays healthy. Dixon may prove to be a more than capable backup for Ben. The latest draft, 2009, has yielded a lot of excitement, but not a lot of results. It seems that one day, Ziggy Hood, will be able to take the reigns from Aaron Smith, but hopefully, he will be ready to start next season, just in case. It looks like Mike Wallace was also pretty safe in the 3rd round. David Johnson is a good late rounder, but hopefully, he can do more than block..and maybe even get better at that too. Urbik, Lewis, Burnett…who knows? Frank the Tank and Sonny Harris…high hopes, but they better step up in 2010. Shipley…gone. It is imperative they address either OT, DE/NT, or DB. As far as the O-Line goes, I think they have enough guys that can play guard (even some that are listed as tackles), so they need a true OT. With Ziggy showing progress last season, and Hampton being a free agent, grabbing a true NT would make a lot of sense. However, a DE with potential to play NT or a can’t-miss 3-4 DE would be ok too. In terms of DBs, safety is a position of high priority simply because they don’t have any. This needs to be an impactful draft, because age and depth are becoming an issue in a few positions. Maybe free agency can help be a stop-gap, but it won’t be a long-term solution. For instance, Hartwig at center, is maybe good for another two years, but he’s capable for now….no Dawson, but ok.
OL
The Steelers don’t need to get an OL in the first round, what they need is to draft wisely.
I am not seeing a player of this team that was choose in the late rounds iof the past drafts playting or even worst they were cut before the season starts
This team has been taken the wright people in the first rounds (Polamalu, Miller, BB, Timmons etc) but not in the late rounds, so I think the Top people in the organization should study the best options after the 3rd round to get people that can help to keep the team running during the season
Steeler forever
swissvale pulled out the ww2 reference nice
he posts over at www.stillers-forums.com a crazy fun forum for die hard fans, but bring your big boy shorts as there is little moderation and pretty much no one ever gets banned except spammers.
p.s as to the meat of this article I would LOVE to see a 1st and a 2nd rd pick to O Line in this years draft.
How about trading up in the 2nd round?
We should be able to trade our 4th and 5th round picks to move into the top 10 of the second round. At that position, we should be able to get one of the top G or C (Iupati, Asamoah, MJohnson, Pouncey) in the draft. That way, we could still use our first rounder for a S or CB. We can afford to trade the 4th and 5th picks since we will probably be getting compensatory picks in those rounds. Besides, if we can come up with a starting G and a starting S in the draft, I don’t care what happens in rounds 4 and 5.
Alternatively, trade down in the first round and choose Iupati while grabbing an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder. Having three picks on the first day would be sweet.
My 2c
I would love it if we could grab a potential long term LT talent in round 1 and have him play at RT at least the first couple of years. Starks really looked the part at LT this year and I’m happy to continue with him there. I saw some stats of him giving up 4 sacks over his first 12 games which is top 10 sort of territory in pass pro.
I’d like to see them try Colon inside at Left Guard and I’d like to see Kemo play RG where I think he’d be better suited. But whether any of that will happen is pretty unlikely given they haven’t done it yet! Though new OL coach, who knows?
With that said even if we re-sign Ryan Clark (who I think combines very very well with Troy) both he and Troy have missed a fair few games the last couple of years. Tyrone Carter is a tryer but he just lacks the ability to fill in for anyone. Our biggest single need is depth at the Safety slot and if it were a choice between a guy like Earl Thomas or Bryan Bulaga, I’d probably go for Thomas.
Colon is the big question
Where I agree with MR that with our draft status, it is time for the FO to draft an OL man ( most likely tackle) in round 1 or 2, but I am like 50/50 they will do it. It is the whole FO vs coaching. Z was anti Starks, but the FO kept him. He is now the Starting LT. BA and Z called Colon to be one of the next best RT in the game.
With next year being uncapped and Colon a RFA, he will be the stater. If the Steelers draft a tackle round 1 or 2, he is out after next year, but I don’t think the new OL coach will even get to work with Colon until after the draft. That makes me think unless the true BPA is an OL man, they will wait another year, and maybe draft OL round 3 or 4 for the OL again. :(
Best Athlete Available
Hey, let me say this again. It is to early for one. If we have to guess then lets take the best athlete available. If it’s on OL so be it. It will make sense. However, the defense was the offensive problem this year. Our OL is getting better. It takes three years anyway for any linemen to be that good anyway. If Eric Berry slips heck no. If Earl Thomas is available heck no. if McClain is available heck no. Defense wins championships. You just want be like Peyton Manning and have an exciting offense and can’t get to the big one. He might get it this year. It is better to take the best athlete at any position unless you already got an Ace in the hole at that position. If we get Eric Berry it’s going to be a good draft. I know that is not going to happen but its ok to dream. I do not like the idea of drafting an OL # 1 but I cannot argue if the best athlete is available and it happens to be an OL. Kevin and Mike will do a good job like always. If we look at our history which many of you know you know we will be fine.
Hard Work Pays Off!!
Darren Sharper is an UFA
I know it’s not the Steelers way to go after a major free agent. But this is an unusual circumstance. If I’m not mistaken, we have an uncapped year, so there’s less immediate salary-cap pressure. In the spirit of the franchise’s 6 Lombardi trophies, be aggressive and utilize the landscape. Structure and re-structure contracts, so the hit comes now when it matters less. A lot of the pieces are in place, as we saw 12-15 months ago during last year’s run. Is there any reason not to go after 13-year veteran Darren Sharper? Would he not pair very nicely with Troy for a couple years? If Eric Berry or Joe Haden are determined to be studs and somehow fall out of top 8 or so, why not try to move up w/o selling the farm?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history."
Art Rooney Jr.
"Level-headed thinking." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
