Big 3 Issues - what has changed?
by franz on Nov 15, 2010 3:39 PM EST
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1. Offensive Line
2. Defensive Backs
3. Overall Coaching - specifically Offensive Coordinator
Unfortunately, the Steelers were exposed in these facets of the game and looked powerless to adjust. The chess match was already figured from the first move by Belichek and his staff.
Perhaps they were powerless to adjust from a personnel standpoint. I know this much, one team was much better prepared than the other, injuries or not. The schemes and counterpunching employed by each team were in plain view for all to see. Is there any question which coaching staff did a better job?
If the Steelers were more healthy, it would have been a closer game but the outcome would have been the same. Gay would still be getting burned, Farrior would still be isolated on a younger, quicker guy, and the offensive line would not have been much better because they just aren't very good to begin with.
As far as our offensive game plan goes - same old song and dance there. We can run against some teams, some of the time. We can not run against good coaches who take it away through scheme and/or good defensive personnel. This is not your 1990's run game. Unfortunately, it's not our 1990's defensive backfield either.
One thing that entered my mind watching the game... In games where things are falling apart - what is Tomlin supposed to be doing? We all know he is a Tampa 2, 4-3 coach by trade. He has not coached offense in a meaningful way since being in the NFL. What does he sugest/change/demand be done during a game like this last one? LeBeau is the guru and BA is the offensive guy. Special teams aren't all that special, especially (sorry) our Kicker Dick - #3. What exactly is he doing? Others have referred to Belichek and his involvement, particularly on defense. What is our HC doing in the midst of the game?
I suppose this sounds harsh and infantile to some. It's not meant to be. It is meant to provoke an honest and direct evaluation of what this team is made of and how they go on from here. It doesn't look good, even though they may end up 11-5 and in the playoffs. Not good in the sense that they don't look capable of beating the best teams out there.
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That 1990's run game had a great Oline but not a great QB
This one has an awful Oline and a great QB. Fix the Oline needs to be the priority.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
Agreed
The game is always evolving but one thing never changes – the offensive line is crucial to a teams long term success.
It was incredible that the Steelers won the SB with that offensive line. That line looks good compared to this one. The defense in 2008 was playing better than great and stayed healthy.
The offense could mis-fire and give up sacks but the team had a chance in the end because the other team had a tough time scoring TDs. The defense is getting somewhat older and less talented overall.
"Franz" in NoCal
farrior
Maybe its time to see Sylvester a little more on passing downs?
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
Still the rookie learning the play book
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
LB isnt the problem
its the secondary, we miles well see if Butler or Lewis can do any better
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 15, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Look at our line
As good as Pouncey has been, he is still a rookie and the only other starter is Trai Essex, there are going to be some problems. Especially when it was the first time our LT and LG started this year. it falls on Pouncey and Ben to pick up the blitzes, and Pouncey just may not be that good at it yet. This line is a work in progress right now, and when we lose a guy like Heinz to whom they can get the ball on bubble screens to relieve pressure on the line, the whole scheme will suffer. I think one of the problems is that as good as Mike Wallace is, he just isn’t a complete receiver at this point that can do that.
and Essex is serviceable but not a top Lineman
"Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
calling Essex serviceable is being too kind
I thought Legursky played better than Essex ever had with the exception of one game. I just don’t see what the coaches do in Essex. No way should he be starting – I don’t care who replaces him.
Having said that they’ll give him a fat contract extension no doubt as they did with Hartwig, Kemo, and Starks. Rewarding mediocrity is our way with the o-line as of late. I’m just amazed they let Pouncey take over center this year. Sure it was obvious he was a huge upgrade, but that’s no substitute for “experience” or so I’m told.
Please don't blame BA on this one
Our Oline is feeling the injury bug so you cant blame them. How about admitting that we lost to a good team. It seemes like some guys gave up when Reed missed a really close kick.
"Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
There is a difference between losing and getting the snot kicked out of us
How can you not blame BA? The offense cannot handle a blitz, his QB routinely holds onto the ball WAY too long, and we don’t have a true FB in our offense, which is necessary for an effective running game in the NFL. Cleveland ran through the Patriiots in large part because the FB picked up a man on almost every play. We, on the other hand, us TE’s to lead block. Despite the high level of effort, our TEs are playing out of position when the line up at FB. Concering BB holding onto the ball forever, some of that is his fault, but the heck aren’t we throwing 5-year check downs and slants when the other team is so obviously bringing the heat? The offense has all kinds of flaws and it is the OC’s job to fix them. Thus, we should blame BA.
I'm your huckleberry
but...
Where was the max protect? Where was the TE to help with protection? If we are weak on left side, why ever go to empty backfield? Where is the short routes that give us fits? I think BA is square peg and round hole. He does not care about situation much.
instead of going double TEs
why dont they just put another tackle on the left side
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 15, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
we still have Flozell, J.Scott, Hills, and the other Scott, we can afford to put any O-line men in as a 3rd tackle because lets face it if one more starter gets hurt the Steelers are going to HAVE to get someone out of the FA market. And I’m tired of being within the 5 yard line and not getting a TD. put in J.Scott, Kemo, Pouncey, Essex (uhg), Flozell, and Hills (3rd tackle) on the O-line and put Legursky in at FB with Mendenhall running it to the right side, if he doesn’t get in we have problems.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
better yet make Foster the RG
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
BA is part of the overall problem
I would agree that the Patriots were the better team. That team also extends to the coaching staff and the effectiveness of the organization to get the players they want and to develope the talent they have on the roster.
Injuries are part of the game. I would love to see both of these teams play with everyone healthy. I think the end result may be the same though… Keisel and Smith weren’t going to cover anyone and the O Line was going to be challenged anyway.
Unlike everyone else – Pouncey has been outstanding thus far !!
"Franz" in NoCal
Pouncey has been outstanding thus far!!
Amen to that. It’s kind of sad that the two best players on our line are a rookie and a retread that was cut by the cowboys. Adams has been off since getting dinged up, but I still think he was an improvement over Colon. That’s not me heaping praise on Adams either, I just never was impressed with Colon, Essex, Kemo, or Starks. I like Starks as an ok RT (not LT), but both of our guards have major issues even when healthy. Kemo has been in the league too long to still make so many boneheaded mistakes. Essex never did develop into even an average guard.
There is only one player on our line that has a prayer of making a pro bowl ever, and he’s our rookie this year. One has to ask who’s corn flakes Urbrik pissed in to not make this squad. Could he really have been so bad that he couldn’t unseat even Essex? If not Ubrik then why not go back to Legursky or Foster, or random guy in isle three of the big and tall clothing store? I find it hard to believe there aren’t better guards that were cut from other teams currently waiting by a phone then what Essex has shown in his time with the team.
Yes, sad but true
Nothing against Pouncey or Flozell, but they really shouldn’t be the best O Linemen on this team should they?
Do we miss Faneca yet??
"Franz" in NoCal
it would be amazing to get him back
its would almost be worth the money he wanted
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 16, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, sad
that the Steelers didn’t sign him. With so much money spent on BB, Hines, Polamalu, Starks and others, they weren’t going to pay big for a guard with 3 or 4 years left.
Too bad, because it really signalled the end of the offensive line and running game being a dominant feature of the offense. Don’t get me wrong – our skill position guys for the most part were and are good to great players.
ARE, Spaeth and Johnson are barely average, below average and terrible respectively. Johnson (#85) being lined up in the backfield makes me nauseous. He is really bad and doesn’t look much better running routes or moving with the ball. Very low budget type player who is not going to get better from what I have seen so far.
"Franz" in NoCal
Especially for a guard who openly undermined his positional coaches to his fellow line mates.
Great player, but he went out in a less than admirable way, in my opinion.
I have not yet begun to procrastinate.
by NYSteelersFan4 on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
i wonder if he would feel the same way about Kugler
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 16, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure Faneca is helping the cardinals that much this year
I’d love to have the 2003 version of Faneca back, but that guy no longer exists.
Pouncey I think would be a stud on about any line, but I’ll admit having Flozell being an upgrade just shows how bad of a talent evaluator our old line coach was. Colon was our starting RT and I can’t think of a winning team in the league that he would be an upgrade for. Now with his injury a slow lineman just got slower. I think he’s done in Pittsburgh too.
I’m hoping that C Scott becomes something because prior to this year Colbert has been missing on about every lineman draft pick since Marvel Smith. Sure he’s gotten some “ok” players like Kemo, but the line has been declining rapidly since the 05 season. It started before that actually.
the Faneca now in AZ would still be an upgrade on our line
and i don’t have much faith with C. Scott, our best option is to draft maybe a 2nd or 3rd round linemen
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." ~Jack Lambert.
"The next thing you know, they are going to pass a rule that says the Quarterbacks have to wear skirts" ~Jack Lambert,
"Superman ain't got nothing on me, ... Kryptonite? C'mon now. It's just that you're never going to hear me say that somebody is tougher than me, ... Because I don't believe somebody else could be tougher than me." ~James Harrison
"I don't want to see anyone injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone. There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back. I try to hurt people." ~James Harrison
by H-burgSTEELfanatic on Nov 16, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Has to be right? I mean, these guys as a group are bad. Even the 2010 Faneca would be better than what we have now. He screwed up in pass protection sometimes but he was athletic, strong and a good puller. Look at Kemo trying to pull playside on their O Power and you can see the difference.
I think Faneca had every right to be pissed off that they didn’t resign him to a bigger contract. How he handled it in public didn’t help him, but then again – maybe he knew he was never going to get the money he wanted and he got his name out there to be recognized and start a little bidding war.
lkwdsteel makes a great point about the continued decline of the O Line after 2005. Colon was their worst lineman in the 2008 SuperBowl season if you ask me…. and then he ends up getting this huge contract ?!! I don’t care if other tackles are hurt – I don’t think you sign a guy with Colon’s limited ability to a big contract without exploring other options. Wasn’t he named their best lineman by the coaching staff a year or two ago? Mysterious….
"Franz" in NoCal
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